Gender Perspectives: Submales -- Meek, Crushed, Emasculated

[MetaBob]

There's a large body of literature focused on submissive males (thousands of stories on lit alone) -- it often emphasizes a humiliation narrative, where the male character is depicted as meek, crushed, or even emasculated, stripping him of any agency or dignity. The focus is on humiliation, not on the empowerment or triumph of the character.

In contrast, submissive female literature, with classics like Story of O and Emmanuelle, offer a different lens through which submission is explored. The female protagonists in those stories, while undergoing extreme forms of submission, still maintain a sense of agency or triumph within the context of their submission. O, for example, is driven by her desire to submit, yet exudes power in the very act of surrendering herself -- her triumph is in fully embracing and accepting her role, even if it’s a role that might seem degrading or humiliating on the surface. Emmanuelle is a slut, aspiring to be the ultimate slut -- yet winning bigly at each turn.

Many of my stories feature dominant women with men who haven't recognized submissive tendencies in themselves but come to appreciate a supportive woman's leadership that benefits both partners. Dominance is as new for some of these women as submission is to their male partners. On the spectrum of Female-Led Relationships, this is level 2-3 of 4. She is always loving even when she might seem cruel. In my stories, in order to accomplish his voluntary submission, She might insist that he submit to Her whims as part of obeying. Humiliation, physical punishment, and his wearing stereotypical feminine clothing (or being naked) at home, especially when performing housekeeping activities that are typically performed by a woman and/or feminine undergarments when he's out of the house can be part of this, establishing expectations and adherence to mutually agreed-upon ground rules, but not necessarily permanent unless they both enjoy it. My MMCs don't, but if She does, he will put up with it for Her sake. This pleases her, and when she occasionally insists, excites her. She expects him to excel at work, satisfying his own ambition to succeed and bettering their mutual financial situation as well as pleasing Her. She might have martial arts skills or unusual strength through working out, though she is seldom stronger than he is; my Senioritis and brand-new Black Belt Muscle Dominatrix series are exceptions.

In many of these stories, the FMC has been damaged in previous relationships and wants a feeling of control. Once that's established and she feels safe and secure, grounded and confident, She is willing to loosen the reins, though they will be tightened when She feels it's necessary. She demands expertise from him in sexually satisfying her and is happy to instruct him however She feels he could improve, as well as expecting certain other activities like foot rubs, whole-body massages, sleeping late and being awakened by breakfast in bed on a weekend day or two, and regular expressions of his gratitude for Her consenting to be in a relationship with him, to say nothing of him doing at least his share of housecleaning and yard maintenance. She rewards his submission with loving and expertly administered sexual pleasure when She feels it's due, and enjoys cuddling before, during, and after. She loves him, after all. He is expected to receive sexual pleasure less often than Her, often through control of his orgasms, which might include male chastity and/or pegging. He is expected to be grateful when this boon is granted.

 

[pink_silk_glove]

A desire to serve or submit in general almost always stems from a feeling of lack of purpose. Many people suffer from feeling unnecessary in the world in some way. Serving or submitting to someone else's needs or desires can fulfill that sense of purpose in the sub and therefore foster a feeling of worthiness and belonging in the world.

This perceived unworthiness is always false, however, the perception of it is very true which makes it entirely real to the sub.

 

[madelinemasoch]

A desire to serve or submit in general almost always stems from a feeling of lack of purpose. Many people suffer from feeling unnecessary in the world in some way. Serving or submitting to someone else's needs or desires can fulfill that sense of purpose in the sub and therefore foster a feeling of worthiness and belonging in the world.

This perceived unworthiness is always false, however, the perception of it is very true which makes it entirely real to the sub.

Sounds like something you need to write about!

 

[Kumquatqueen]

I'm a woman, and I write stories with heavy submission/humiliation elements. Often when I read a submissive-male story, I find myself thinking, "Oh, that's not the kind of humiliation I think I'd enjoy." It's hard to know if it's a gender thing, or just my personal preferences. After all, there are plenty of stories about submissive women that aren't my thing either.

If I try to find stories about submissive men that fit my particular taste, I feel like most of them include the feminization kink. "Girl feminizes boy, teases him, but it's still sweet." That sort of thing. But I'm not really into the feminization part, as much as the blushing-submissive-boy vibe. Not really sure what to make of that. Maybe "feminization" is easier to search for than "submissive male but not the mean kind but also not too nice just right in the middle how I like it"? Or maybe I'm just bad at using tags...

I read a bunch of threads on the Lit BDSM board about humiliation. I'm pretty sure 80% of the stories never happened, but it's pretty illustrative of various humiliation fantasies.

The men craving humiliation generally 'want' to be told they're dirty, and often be forced to be homosexual and/or feminised, along with being inadequate, pathetic and useless. If it's paired with a loving dominant who concludes at the end that they're still loved, it looks as if the humiliatee is essentially craving permission to be imperfect and potentially queer or effeminate. In the scenarios where the dominant simply treats them like shit, it's as if their world view is being supported, 'you hate your effeminate feelings, and you're right to do so'. Which I suppose can feel better than nothing?

Women in contrast fantasise about being sluts or treated like they are, because they've been raised with all the 'nice girls don't' messaging, so get humiliated by the accusation. But at least sluttery is generally enjoyable! Humiliation with a woman by telling her she's ugly or making her present herself as ugly is likely to go much closer to her psyche, because women are supposed to be pretty. Again, if it's done by a loving partner, it can help her feel that 'I might be ugly or a slut, but that's OK'. When it isn't... it tends to overlap with abusive relationships. Possibly women are more used to being told their feelings are wrong and don't need that sort of validation, but you don't see women writing that sort of fantasy - though I'm sure it's out there somewhere.

 

[VerbalAbuse]

I read a bunch of threads on the Lit BDSM board about humiliation. I'm pretty sure 80% of the stories never happened, but it's pretty illustrative of various humiliation fantasies.

The men craving humiliation generally 'want' to be told they're dirty, and often be forced to be homosexual and/or feminised, along with being inadequate, pathetic and useless. If it's paired with a loving dominant who concludes at the end that they're still loved, it looks as if the humiliatee is essentially craving permission to be imperfect and potentially queer or effeminate. In the scenarios where the dominant simply treats them like shit, it's as if their world view is being supported, 'you hate your effeminate feelings, and you're right to do so'. Which I suppose can feel better than nothing?

Women in contrast fantasise about being sluts or treated like they are, because they've been raised with all the 'nice girls don't' messaging, so get humiliated by the accusation. But at least sluttery is generally enjoyable! Humiliation with a woman by telling her she's ugly or making her present herself as ugly is likely to go much closer to her psyche, because women are supposed to be pretty. Again, if it's done by a loving partner, it can help her feel that 'I might be ugly or a slut, but that's OK'. When it isn't... it tends to overlap with abusive relationships. Possibly women are more used to being told their feelings are wrong and don't need that sort of validation, but you don't see women writing that sort of fantasy - though I'm sure it's out there somewhere.

I have found one story where the FMC suffers the type of abuse and humiliation as MMC usually do. Expectedly, it was written by an author posting humiliation stories, the rest of which with a MMC. So a story for humiliation fans. Point being that the story was a male thing: written by a man, for a male audience, with an MC inviting the reader to identify with.

 

[Kumquatqueen]

I have found one story where the FMC suffers the type of abuse and humiliation as MMC usually do. Expectedly, it was written by an author posting humiliation stories, the rest of which with a MMC. So a story for humiliation fans. Point being that the story was a male thing: written by a man, for a male audience, with an MC inviting the reader to identify with.

Doesn't surprise me. The other way round would be more unusual, I think - "boy, you'd fuck anyone, you would, you with your face like a skelped arse" isn't something I can imagine unless it's combined with forced m/m activity.

I'm working on a story atm which includes male humiliation including class and race play, which is quite complicated! A previous story (Strength is a Caged Cock) included male humiliation but more as a by-product - happy guy submissive to his wife, but then has to explain his life and what she does to him, to a friend he's known for years.

 

[AwkwardlySet]

A desire to serve or submit in general almost always stems from a feeling of lack of purpose. Many people suffer from feeling unnecessary in the world in some way. Serving or submitting to someone else's needs or desires can fulfill that sense of purpose in the sub and therefore foster a feeling of worthiness and belonging in the world.

This perceived unworthiness is always false, however, the perception of it is very true which makes it entirely real to the sub.

While I agree that this is true for a certain group of submissives, I don't think that there is just one common denominator when it comes to D/s play. For some of them, your theory holds. For others, it's just about relinquishing control. For others, it's a purely sexual experience. And so on. There are many flavors of submissives, and I don't think either one of them is prevalent.

 

[SimonDoom]

While I agree that this is true for a certain group of submissives, I don't think that there is just one common denominator when it comes to D/s play. For some of them, your theory holds. For others, it's just about relinquishing control. For others, it's purely sexual experience. And so on. There are many flavors and I don't think either one of them is prevalent.

I totally agree. In general, I reject "one size fits all" explanations for any sort of kink, but I think it's especially true of this one. With respect to submissiveness, I think there are men and women, for example, who in some aspects of their lives feel a strong sense of agency and control but yearn to experience the feeling of giving it up once in a while. This concept, I think, plays a big role in people's erotic fantasies in general--the opportunity to play, or imagine playing, a role contrary to the one they play in their day to day lives. It doesn't necessarily mean there's something missing. Sometimes, people are complex and they just desire strange things.

 

[AwkwardlySet]

I totally agree. In general, I reject "one size fits all" explanations for any sort of kink, but I think it's especially true of this one. With respect to submissiveness, I think there are men and women, for example, who in some aspects of their lives feel a strong sense of agency and control but yearn to experience the feeling of giving it up once in a while. This concept, I think, plays a big role in people's erotic fantasies in general--the opportunity to play, or imagine playing, a role contrary to the one they play in their day to day lives. It doesn't necessarily mean there's something missing. Sometimes, people are complex and they just desire strange things.

Indeed.
I can even use myself as an example. I am very attracted to the idea of being a "target" of a seductive and confident, even lightly dominant woman, and I would relinquish control over sex to such a person. The whole idea is very arousing for me. But outside of sex, I am actually someone who has a problem with accepting authority. I have a mind of my own about literally everything and I make my own decisions about everything, even when it goes against "common wisdom".

So I am the "sexual only" flavor of a submissive, and even for that, it has to be the right woman for me to desire to go there. Everything is so much easier in fiction and fantasy.

 

[AlexBailey]

This subject has me reflecting more on my own interests and experiences.

My first feelings of humiliation in life were from my stepfather who was disappointed had a non-masculine stepson. I slept on a hide-away bed in the living room for many years while my stepfather would drink scotch whiskey until he would fall asleep, only to be startled awake by his own drunken sleep apnea. Then he’d turn off the TV and go to bed, often with some derisive comment about me and how miserable his life was.

Some of his favorites were about how I would never be a real man, or how I’d never make it in the world. When I started getting back problems from the POS hide-a-bed he started calling me “The Princess and the Pea”, then shortened it to just “princess”.

I’m femme but I have a real aversion to being considered a ‘sissy’ or to feeling like I’m losing agency unless it’s by a woman who is crossing gender roles. I’ve been dommed by a few butch women who got something out of turning the gender tides of control and for some reason that is okay with me. It felt like they’re working out issues for themselves and that the abuse they were dishing out was a reflection of what they had experienced.

Most, not all, of the guys I’ve been with were femme, and wanted me to treat them as soft femme sissies.

 

[pink_silk_glove]

While I agree that this is true for a certain group of submissives, I don't think that there is just one common denominator when it comes to D/s play. For some of them, your theory holds. For others, it's just about relinquishing control. For others, it's a purely sexual experience. And so on. There are many flavors of submissives, and I don't think either one of them is prevalent.

Absolutely. I did not claim that this was 100% the case. However I believe that it is more prevalent than we believe, even those with a subservient kink often don't realize that this is part of what drives it. I've worked in the community and I've dealt with countless people with anxieties and self-worth issues, often debilitating. In my younger days I've even had some of these feelings myself. This is a highly prevalent attitude in all corners of society - a need to feel useful in the world - and why would it not also pervade the bedroom?

Yes, there are all kinds of reasons why people have the kinks that they have, but in submissiveness, and in particular the servitude aspect, this is very overlooked.

 

[Cagivagurl]

The world is full of opinions...
None more relevant than your own.
We all think we have the answers, but for every question there is more than one answer. There is no right or wrong, just different perspectives.
Every single human being in our wonderfully horrid human race is excited and aroused by something different...
What excites me bores another.
Why do we feel the way we do???
Who knows.

Cagivagurl

 

[nice90sguy]

Just wanted to say that I'm wearing my wife's sheer tights right now, and they're really keeping my legs warm.

Carry on

 

[SPARTAN047]

I do love to be treated like a soft femme sissy, but that's only in attitude and being gentle with your hands.

I don't care about pampering much. I don't need presents and I don't need flowers, makeup, or extra big gifts on valentine's day. Massages are fine.

An RTX 4080 is just as good, and better actually, as a weekend getaway for me.

 

[nice90sguy]

An RTX 4080

I wouldn't put out if I were you, unless it's 5090. Don't undervalue yourself

 

[AwkwardlySet]

I wouldn't put out if I were you, unless it's 5090.

Now that's pure findom.

 

[SPARTAN047]

I wouldn't put out if I were you, unless it's 5090. Don't undervalue yourself

Ah darn. I forgot 5090 was out too, I could only remember the memes about 4080.

To be fair I have a 3060 so 4080 is a huge upgrade for me!

 

[SPARTAN047]

Now that's pure findom.

I've occasionally been asked to be a findom and I've been a finsub, so that could be good practice!

Maybe I should only put out for the AMD gaming chips like the findom slut I am?

 

[stickygirl]

My memory of Story of O is that it portrays a quasi religious subservience. There's nothing admirable about crucifixion for example, yet the idea that there's a deeper meaning to the act has attracted followers for eons. O becomes admired because of her trust in her master(s) and Anais Nin edit, Anne Desclo would have us believe it's a spiritual triumph, beyond the constraint of mortal flesh. Complete rubbish in the real world, where the majority of subs/doms have a dungeon in their sub-urban garage, wank each other off and “see you again next Thursday”. Ultimately the Story of O is intended for a male readership and a writer’s intended audience is what generally defines the genre.

Whenever the powerful male exec gets hard about the idea of being spanked or dressed in diapers, it is done in the full knowledge that next day he’ll be safely back in the office with his powerful role. It isn’t a life-changing trial where he is permanently transformed - it’s just a little holiday.

In O’s case - a woman apparently volunteering to be dominated, the yarn reinforces the male readers sense of privilege. While the story is seen largely from her perspective, she is simply an accessory and frankly the claim that empowerment comes from true humility is nonsense. Her humility provides an excuse for the guilty male reader = “but she wanted it”. Where have we all heard that excuse before?

Don’t get me wrong, I’m not against people playing dress up in funny outfits with spikes and leather while trying to recall this week's safe word. If it gets you hard, that’s fine, but what if that becomes the only way to get hard? That's a proper fucked up fixation you've got, Roger McCavity.

As for women playing the Dom - who doesn’t want to send a CEO away with a tummy full of your wee and bruised buttocks? If a woman can pretend to be powerful for one evening then good on her. I can promise you this though, he’ll make you redundant in the blink of an eye on Monday morning if he chooses, and she knows it too.

TLDR. Stop taking yourselves so seriously. Bdsm isn’t going to change the world order.

 

[AG31]

My memory of Story of O is that it portrays a quasi religious subservience. There's nothing admirable about crucifixion for example, yet the idea that there's a deeper meaning to the act has attracted follows for eons. O becomes admired because of her trust in her master(s) and Anais Non would have us believe it's a spiritual triumph, beyond the constraint of mortal flesh. Complete rubbish in the real world, where the majority of subs/doms have a dungeon in their sub-urban garage, wank each other off and “see you again next Thursday”. Ultimately the Story of O is intended for a male readership and a writer’s intended audience is what generally defines the genre.

Whenever the powerful male exec gets hard about the idea of being spanked or dressed in diapers, it is done in the full knowledge that next day he’ll be safely back in the office with his powerful role. It isn’t a life-changing trial where he is permanently transformed - it’s just a little holiday.

In O’s case - a woman apparently volunteering to be dominated, the yarn reinforces the male readers sense of privilege. While the story is seen largely from her perspective, she is simply an accessory and frankly the claim that empowerment comes from true humility is nonsense. Her humility provides an excuse for the guilty male reader = “but she wanted it”. Where have we all heard that excuse before?

Don’t get me wrong, I’m not against people playing dress up in funny outfits with spikes and leather while trying to recall this week's safe word. If it gets you hard, that’s fine, but what if that becomes the only way to get hard? That's a proper fucked up fixation you've got, Roger McCavity.

As for women playing the Dom - who doesn’t want to send a CEO away with a tummy full of your wee and bruised buttocks? If a woman can pretend to be powerful for one evening then good on her. I can promise you this though, he’ll make you redundant in the blink of an eye on Monday morning if he chooses, and she knows it too.

TLDR. Stop taking yourselves so seriously. Bdsm isn’t going to change the world order.

Does anyone have stats on the readership of The Story of O? I would think that it's mainly female. I'm female and it was very important to me at one time. It was written by a woman.

 

[stickygirl]

Does anyone have stats on the readership of The Story of O? I would think that it's mainly female. I'm female and it was very important to me at one time. It was written by a woman.

Yup, my bad - written by another woman Anne Desclo, though the author's name doesn't change much "Look," they crow. "It's written by a woman so it must be okay." That's not an argument that holds water IMO.

ETA I gather Anne wrote it after she was challenged by her lover that a woman couldn't write erotica.

 

[Audiflex]

There's a large body of literature focused on submissive males (thousands of stories on lit alone) -- it often emphasizes a humiliation narrative, where the male character is depicted as meek, crushed, or even emasculated, stripping him of any agency or dignity. The focus is on humiliation, not on the empowerment or triumph of the character.

In contrast, submissive female literature, with classics like Story of O and Emmanuelle, offer a different lens through which submission is explored. The female protagonists in those stories, while undergoing extreme forms of submission, still maintain a sense of agency or triumph within the context of their submission. O, for example, is driven by her desire to submit, yet exudes power in the very act of surrendering herself -- her triumph is in fully embracing and accepting her role, even if it’s a role that might seem degrading or humiliating on the surface. Emmanuelle is a slut, aspiring to be the ultimate slut -- yet winning bigly at each turn.

Interesting observation! The contrast in how submission is portrayed for male vs. female characters is stark, humiliation vs. agency. It’s fascinating how female-centric stories like Story of O and Emmanuelle frame submission as a form of empowerment or self-actualization, while male-centric narratives often lean into degradation. Definitely a thought-provoking dynamic in literature.

 

[SPARTAN047]

Interesting observation! The contrast in how submission is portrayed for male vs. female characters is stark, humiliation vs. agency. It’s fascinating how female-centric stories like Story of O and Emmanuelle frame submission as a form of empowerment or self-actualization, while male-centric narratives often lean into degradation. Definitely a thought-provoking dynamic in literature.

Yep, they all do.

The submissive has the power - only if the female is submissive.

The Domme still has the power if the sub is male. Or else he's a bad sub and will be punished, or she'll discard him and move on to a malesub who is.

Hmmmmmm... Very interesting.

 

[ElectricBlue]

Yup, my bad - written by another woman Anne Desclo, though the author's name doesn't change much "Look," they crow. "It's written by a woman so it must be okay." That's not an argument that holds water IMO.

ETA I gather Anne wrote it after she was challenged by her lover that a woman couldn't write erotica.

Correct. I think the scandal of its writing and publication has to be kept in context with its era - the writer and the lover/publisher having lived through the German occupation of France during WW2.

Reading it with a 2025 mindset makes no sense - there's been 75 years of feminism in the meantime. And in that context, Story of O is a major milestone. It's not the complete foundation, obviously, but it is one of the building blocks, along with Anais Nin, who you mention.

 

[Astrotrain]

I think what you have noted is the typical male brain/ male author approach to male and female submission. I haven't looked into this in any great detail, but suspect female authors may have less emphasise on the humiliation approach when attempting to achieve male submission.

Gentle femdom is a thing and it's very popular with male subs.