Question about shifting POV’s

[LiterallyLiterate]

I have a couple of story concepts I’m working on that I’d like some feedback on, just to see if my idea is viable or if it’ll just be chaos to try and read.

In one story, I’m telling the story from a first-person POV, (only 2 characters) but I want to add the thoughts of the other one in italic, to give some insights into her thoughts. Is this something that could work?

In an attempt at branching out a bit, I’m toying with an idea for something I hope can be a bigger story across several categories, a saga of sorts. It’s still only in early concept stage, but I had an idea and wanted to ask. I like writing in first person, and will likely use that for most of my stories, but it’s limiting when it comes to descriptions of the main character.
Is it doable to switch between third-person and first-person? Kind of like seeing a scene from above, then going in for that first person view, and as necessary, back out again briefly.

Not exactly ‘Being John Malkovic’, but along those lines.

 

[StillStunned]

It can be done, but it takes skill and even then you need your writers to be on board with something avant-garde. To be frank, one of the reasons for writing 1P is that you *don't* get to see what the other characters are thinking. You can give hints, for example "From the look on his face I knew he was thinking..." or "I saw something in her eyes. Doubt? Mistrust? Fear?"

Personally (and I say this as someone who's championed the use of 2P), I recommend sticking to 1P throughout, or close 3P - and be very careful about head-hopping! Alternatively, you can use omniscient 3P, but it's not as popular nowadays and I think probably works best for sweeping tales about events or communities rather than stories about individuals and their character.

But in the end, it's your story, and the only opinion that matters is your own. If you enjoy writing it, and if you think you can make it work well enough to present your vision, then go for it.

Good luck!

 

[Small_Island]

If the story is long enough, you might consider changing POVs at the chapter level, especially if there are chapters where the MC is not the main focus. 1P when we really need to be inside MC's head, 3P in broader chapters where there's lots of action, especially if you want to get others' thoughts about MC. But as StillStunned said, be very careful about head hopping at whatever level, but especially the lower you go, like to paragraph level (and I can't imagine it working at sentence level.

 

[LiterallyLiterate]

I hear what you’re saying, and it mirrors my own doubts. Hence the post.

Now, for the first one, with a first-person view and an internal dialogue from the other person, I have a few thousand words down already, and I think I can make it work. I might make a separate post with a snippet of it and gauge reactions someday soon.

For the other one, I’ve had something of a eureka-moment since writing the post this morning, and might have found a way around it, though the question is still worth discussing, if only as a potential tool in writing.

Regardless, I appreciate the feedback.

 

[OnlyHappyEndings]

I would just say to make it obvious when the POV shifts. Some times I've tried to be subtle and said to myself 'that makes sense' and the readers just didn't get it. Even if they have to pause to get it that can interrupt the narrative flow more than explicitly saying 'across the room, so and so was thinking...'.

 

[LiterallyLiterate]

I can see what you mean, and that’s actually one of the things I’m most concerned about. I’m not too worried about making it obvious whose pov it’s from, but I think the break in the flow is the biggest issue.
I think I’ve made a reasonably good attempt at breaking up the story and make the transition natural. I hope that the reader will catch on quickly with the flicking back and forth, but I guess we’ll see. I plan to publish the chapter at some point, regardless, if only as an experiment. I’m not afraid to end up with a bad rating so long as I’ve made it clear that this is an experiment and that the score/comments will be my measure of success.

 

[StillStunned]

I can see what you mean, and that’s actually one of the things I’m most concerned about. I’m not too worried about making it obvious whose pov it’s from, but I think the break in the flow is the biggest issue.
I think I’ve made a reasonably good attempt at breaking up the story and make the transition natural. I hope that the reader will catch on quickly with the flicking back and forth, but I guess we’ll see. I plan to publish the chapter at some point, regardless, if only as an experiment. I’m not afraid to end up with a bad rating so long as I’ve made it clear that this is an experiment and that the score/comments will be my measure of success.

Every time you make your reader work to understand what's happening, you risk losing them. You should decide whether it's worthwhile.

 

[Rob_Royale]

As an alternative, I offer something I tried, that I dubbed- split-1st person. Two people, and the 1st person switches from one to the other every chapter. I did each chapter between 900 and 1300 words and I was surprised how well it worked. I mentioned it in my author's note at the end and got very few negative reviews on the storytelling. I continued it through all three chapters. I think 1st person is far more intimate than 3rd, and some stories need it more than others. This was one such.

Aunt Tina, Recovering Slut Vol. 01

 

[StillStunned]

As an alternative, I offer something I tried, that I dubbed- split-1st person. Two people, and the 1st person switches from one to the other every chapter. I did each chapter between 900 and 1300 words and I was surprised how well it worked. I mentioned it in my author's note at the end and got very few negative reviews on the storytelling. I continued it through all three chapters. I think 1st person is far more intimate than 3rd, and some stories need it more than others. This was one such.

Aunt Tina, Recovering Slut Vol. 01

Robert Heinlein switched 1P POV between four different characters with each chapter in "The Number of the Beast". Quite honestly I thought it was really annoying. But perhaps that was because all the characters were annoying and the entire book felt very self-indulgent - almost as if he was writing a story about himself and three of his closest friends going on the least nerve-wracking adventure ever.

 

[LiterallyLiterate]

I understand what you mean by making the reader work to understand, and that’s probably the biggest risk, though I think I can make it, if not effortless, then easier than you’d fear.
As for doing it chapter by chapter, I’m afraid that would not work in this exact setting.

Let me explain my plan briefly. I’m working on a chapter in the Mind Control section, with an established character whose form of control is given as small suggestions to tweak the victim’s response. So far in the stories I’ve published, I’ve hinted at how the victim’s mind make some rationalizations in the context of the manipulations, so they go beyond the expected ‘command’. For example, they get horny from flashing, as commanded, and start touching themselves on their own initiative.
What I’m hoping to avhieve is an insight into this rationalization process by giving snippets of her internal dialogue following each suggestion.
I’ll see if any of my current draft can be added for more clarification later today, on mobile now and the text is on my laptop, but I’d really like to get a discussion going on the specifics of how to make it work before I write too much of the story.

 

[LiterallyLiterate]

Okay, so I just grabbed a small excerpt from my first draft, just to show my idea. As I'll explain in the introduction before the story when/if I publish it, Jack is the first-person-character, while Katie's thoughts are denominated by Italic text.

‘Hi! Katie, right?’ I smiled warmly as I opened the door. ‘Amy said you’d stop by today, probably.’
‘Yeah, I wasn’t sure if I wanted to do this. I’ve never done something like this before. But this is supposed to be a new life and all that, so I figured, why not? I mean, I don’t have to pay or anything? The gift card said ten pictures included?’

Damn! Amy didn’t say he was nice AND hot! Sure he’s way to old for me, but damn, he’s good looking. And those shoulders, I bet he works out a lot. Dammit! Focus! It doesn’t matter if he’s handsome, and strong, he’s probably married. With kids my age! Shit, he’s staring! Did he say something? Fuck, he did! Okay, just say you’re tired, just deflect!

‘Sorry, what? It’s been busy these last days, must have zoned out.’

‘I understand completely, the first few weeks can be a bit much. Anyway, I asked if you wanted to come inside? We could of course take the pictures here, but I doubt they’d be as nice.’

Aaand he’s funny too! He probably cooks and cleans as well! Why can’t I meet someone like that? Okay, this is going nowhere fast. Focus! Pictures first, and then I can go home and have sordid fantasies about handsome men that are too old for me.

Katie stepped inside, and I closed the door. Her expressive face was easy to read. She was not sure about this at all, but curious too. This was going to be fun. I looked forward to the challenge of slowly twisting her to my desires. And the reward at the end would make it all worthwhile, for both of us.

Could this work? Or is it just confusing/annoying?

 

[Rob_Royale]

Could this work? Or is it just confusing/annoying?

Based on what you just posted, I'd use 3rd person. I don't see a reason not to.

 

[StillStunned]

Could this work? Or is it just confusing/annoying?

It's a lot of information for the reader to process. You're asking them to follow two lines of thought at the same time, and keep track of who's who.

 

[LiterallyLiterate]

Based on what you just posted, I'd use 3rd person. I don't see a reason not to.

That would be the safe option, and easy enough, I suppose. I just wanted to use first-person to get up close and intimate with her thought process. Though as I’m writing this, I realise I could probably just as easily write the story first-person from her pov. The important aspect of the story is her thought process, and for that I only need his prompts/suggestions as ordinary dialogue. And I suppose I could make it work with very short chapters, I suppose.
From her pov I can’t really give good descriptions of what she’s showing/what he sees, but then again, that just leaves more to the reader’s imagination.

For example: (context is a boudoir photoshoot)
‘Would you like to be a little naughty?’

Oh, wow, this is really turning me on! He’s so good at making me feel comfortable and beautiful. I wonder what he’d say if I just slipped my bra down a little? Completely by ‘accident’?

Click. Click. Click.

Oh my! Did he just catch my nipple? Damn! That’s so sexy! I feel so naughty! This is so dirty, but so good at the same time! And, OH MY! What the fuck is that in pants? Is that…? It is! He’s getting excited! I’m making him horny! Wow, this is such a rush! He’s getting stiff because oh me, my body. I wonder what he’ll do if I just happen to let my panties slip too far to the side. Just a tad? Oops.
Click. Click. Click.


Just a five-minute rush job, but I think I could make it work that way, even though the pov is hers.

It's a lot of information for the reader to process. You're asking them to follow two lines of thought at the same time, and keep track of who's who.

It may very well be that I simply expect too much of my readers.

 

[Rob_Royale]

From her pov I can’t really give good descriptions of what she’s showing/what he sees, but then again, that just leaves more to the reader’s imagination.

Do that through dialogue.

"Wow, you really look great in that blue dress."
I gave him what I hoped was my most alluring smile. "You don't think it's too tight?"
He laughed and set his camera down. "You're asking a man if a dress is too tight? And it looks great with those high heels."
"Oh, these old things?" I breathed deeply and pushed my chest out just a bit and his eyes told me that he noticed. "I got my hair, nails and makeup done especially for this shoot." He stepped up to me with a shy smile and moved close enough that I could feel the heat from his body. His hand trembled a bit as reached up and tucked a lock of my dark hair behind my ear.
"You missed some." he said softly. I couldn't help but get lost in his blue eyes.

 

[LiterallyLiterate]

I agree, that works better. And it’s actually closer to much of what I’ve already penned in this, and other stories. I was just so caught up in whole ‘internal dialogue’ that I didn’t think about it.
Your way is better.

 

[Rob_Royale]

I agree, that works better. And it’s actually closer to much of what I’ve already penned in this, and other stories. I was just so caught up in whole ‘internal dialogue’ that I didn’t think about it.
Your way is better.

That's why we're here; to help each other over the creative speed bumps. Happy to be of assistance, sir.

 

[Jay142]

I have a couple of story concepts I’m working on that I’d like some feedback on, just to see if my idea is viable or if it’ll just be chaos to try and read.

In one story, I’m telling the story from a first-person POV, (only 2 characters) but I want to add the thoughts of the other one in italic, to give some insights into her thoughts. Is this something that could work?

In an attempt at branching out a bit, I’m toying with an idea for something I hope can be a bigger story across several categories, a saga of sorts. It’s still only in early concept stage, but I had an idea and wanted to ask. I like writing in first person, and will likely use that for most of my stories, but it’s limiting when it comes to descriptions of the main character.
Is it doable to switch between third-person and first-person? Kind of like seeing a scene from above, then going in for that first person view, and as necessary, back out again briefly.

Not exactly ‘Being John Malkovic’, but along those lines.

Here is a link to a story I wrote where I warned the readers that I was switching to the wife's point of view. I did it in italics. https://classic.literotica.com/s/a-wife-on-loan-ch-01-02

You might want to ask for advice in the author's forum too.

 

[SweetOblivion]

I hear what you’re saying, and it mirrors my own doubts. Hence the post.

Now, for the first one, with a first-person view and an internal dialogue from the other person, I have a few thousand words down already, and I think I can make it work. I might make a separate post with a snippet of it and gauge reactions someday soon.

For the other one, I’ve had something of a eureka-moment since writing the post this morning, and might have found a way around it, though the question is still worth discussing, if only as a potential tool in writing.

Regardless, I appreciate the feedback.

you could try creating each POV scene as a mini story in its own right. Then build an overarching story like the Arabian nights. Your characters can flick into the background in scenes they are not directly party to.

This could mean you have a huge bundle of literary fun bringing them in and out unexpectedly and finishing up somewhere unintentionally different from your original goal

Smiles Mir.

 

[LiterallyLiterate]

Interesting idea, but for this particular story I was thinking a back-and-forth type exchange, where each new command/suggestion led to an internal dialogue in the other person.

I’m not actively writing this story atm anyway, I’ve shelved it for the time being as a possible future project.

 

[Husky_Embrace]

I have a couple of story concepts I’m working on that I’d like some feedback on, just to see if my idea is viable or if it’ll just be chaos to try and read.

In one story, I’m telling the story from a first-person POV, (only 2 characters) but I want to add the thoughts of the other one in italic, to give some insights into her thoughts. Is this something that could work?

In an attempt at branching out a bit, I’m toying with an idea for something I hope can be a bigger story across several categories, a saga of sorts. It’s still only in early concept stage, but I had an idea and wanted to ask. I like writing in first person, and will likely use that for most of my stories, but it’s limiting when it comes to descriptions of the main character.
Is it doable to switch between third-person and first-person? Kind of like seeing a scene from above, then going in for that first person view, and as necessary, back out again briefly.

Not exactly ‘Being John Malkovic’, but along those lines.

Maybe you can signify the other person's thoughts by lining it on the other side.

Tom tentatively touched the small extrusion in the wet folds with his tongue. 400.000 nerve endings fired in unison.

That's fucking amazing, Tanya thought. If only more men serviced lightly.
​

Tom grabbed the pineapple, ready to blow her mind.

Something like that? I personally have no good way to write it without confusion to the perspective, so a visible change can help people prime for the change, even if it's only a few words.

 

[SteelPoint]

OMG, yet another irrelevant thread gracing this forum.

This belongs on AH.

How many more of these non-story-ideas "story ideas" do we have to suffer through on SI? Is it that people are getting ever less able to understand plain English?

 

[LiterallyLiterate]

Someone needs to take a chill pill, it seems.

First off, this thread is two months old. Second, nobody’s forcing you to read it, you could just move along.
Third, while I see your point and tend to agree with you to a degree, there’s no reason to throw insults around just because you’re having a bad day. A simple question would be more than sufficient.

 

[000zing]

And somebody needs to take a course in basic comprehension. We're here specifically to discuss ideas for stories, i.e. the plots, not ideas for story writing techniques. There is more than a subtle difference and people of average intelligence or better ought to to be able to grasp it, frankly.

It is you who should have "moved along" to a different forum.

I quite agree with Steelpoint. This board is fast becoming a laughing stock. Oh, for a mod who might be even 10% active in his duties.

 

[LiterallyLiterate]

I see I’ve hit upon a sore tooth for you guys, but it’s your problem if you take offense.

I can agree that most people discuss specific scenarios in this sub forum, but I can find no mention of that rule anywhere, but I might not have looked in the right place. As for discussions of specific plots, I have quoted the specific plot I want feedback to above, and if my question about the writing technique rather than the content is annoying to you, that’s not my problem.
I refuse to be bullied away from a forum simply because you disagree with me and feel the need to add insults to my person in order to get your point across.