The Transitioning......(no, not THAT Transition, the Trump one....)

[ChloeTzang]

What insurgency?

Why, the one you people are soon going to be starting within the Federal Govt in an attempt to resist the radical changes Trump will be making to reduce the burden of the Federal Govt on Americans.

 

[ChloeTzang]

They do not need gutting, and that is not anything Trump ran on. He emphatically did not run on Project 2025, if you will recall.

Oh but they do, and THAT is one of the reasons so many of us voted for Trump.

 

[ChloeTzang]

What does any of that have to do with Canada?

Get with the program, Spidey. Trudeau is a pedophile fentanyl manufacturing illegal alien smuggling threat to the existence of the USA. Unless he kowtows and kisses the ring like the sniveling little worm he undoubtedly is and then he will be tolerated as long as he seals the Canadian border tighter than a Democrat interns ass.

 

[ll74]

It goes with the end of the American century. We're at that generational cusp where the US can either renew its position as the worlds leading superpower or lose it.

Well again, our role has largely been based on the market we have for influencing the global economy. More markets have opened up that soften the blow if countries lose our support.

Did you ever read "The Fourth Turning" by Strauss & Howe? Quite an interesting theory on generational cycles and the parts do seem to be falling into place.

https://www.amazon.ca/Fourth-Turning-History-Americas-Rendezvous/dp/0767900464

Thanks for the suggestion. I have not.

 

[Sean Renaud]

As with the changes to the fillobuster has come back to bite Democrats. Forced recess appointments mean the next Democrat will do the same to appoint unvetted and unqualified people without any input from the American people. (And no, electing a President isn't the same as supporting their nominees)

What makes you think the Dems will actually do it? Part of the thing that is so upsetting for those of us on the left is the leadership never just digging their heels in. They never use the tools available and they generally just roll over.

I don't have an issue with proper recess appointments. It's forcing the recess that is my issue. And I think if he tries it, SCOTUS will tell him to fuck off.

What makes you think a 6/3 SCOTUS of whom half of the 6 Conservatives were set by Trump will do anything but what he wants. I USED to trust the SCOTUS and I don't think they will always fall in line especially if it doesn't really make sense. This seems like a case where they will cite Wily v Robotnic 1818 or something other BS.

 

[ll74]

What makes you think the Dems will actually do it? Part of the thing that is so upsetting for those of us on the left is the leadership never just digging their heels in. They never use the tools available and they generally just roll over.

When you make something allowable, it's more likely that someone else you don't like will do it. I don't care what party we're discussing.

What makes you think a 6/3 SCOTUS of whom half of the 6 Conservatives were set by Trump will do anything but what he wants. I USED to trust the SCOTUS and I don't think they will always fall in line especially if it doesn't really make sense. This seems like a case where they will cite Wily v Robotnic 1818 or something other BS.

Because I think it's Executive overreach and I believe all justices will agree. (Even the conservatives)

Nothing about falling in line
....forcing a recess is blatant and political going against the original intent of the Constitution. Previous rulings have already shown that recess appointments have moved away from being fully needed as originally intended. That should easily lend weight to my argument.

 

[Wat_Tyler]

Get with the program, Spidey. Trudeau is a pedophile fentanyl manufacturing illegal alien smuggling threat to the existence of the USA. Unless he kowtows and kisses the ring like the sniveling little worm he undoubtedly is and then he will be tolerated as long as he seals the Canadian border tighter than a Democrat interns ass.

He's short-time.


We'll be needing the lebensraum.

 

[ChloeTzang]

While Americans voted for Trump and Trump's policies, these two RINO skanks are bust stabbing Americans in the back. The traitors are far worse than the open enemies. Democrats I can respect, however deluded, because they are open in their beliefs.

Skank traitors like these two are beneath contempt. And you can bet your life that they will vote AGAINST Trump's nominees.. Skank traitors is being polite about them.

 

[ll74]

While Americans voted for Trump and Trump's policies, these two RINO skanks are bust stabbing Americans in the back. The traitors are far worse than the open enemies. Democrats I can respect, however deluded, because they are open in their beliefs.

Skank traitors like these two are beneath contempt. And you can bet your life that they will vote AGAINST Trump's nominees.. Skank traitors is being polite about them.

View attachment 2435573

They were voted into office by their constituents.

 

[ChloeTzang]

Now, where was that soothing cup of herbal tea LOL

 

[ChloeTzang]

They were voted into office by their constituents.

LOL. Doesn't stop the skanks from being traitors.

 

[ll74]

LOL. Doesn't stop the skanks from being traitors.

It isn't yours to decide who represents them.

Unless you move.

 

[Politruk]

Did you ever read "The Fourth Turning" by Strauss & Howe? Quite an interesting theory on generational cycles and the parts do seem to be falling into place.

https://www.amazon.ca/Fourth-Turning-History-Americas-Rendezvous/dp/0767900464

I've read it. Of course it's pure pseudoscience -- any theory of historical determinism always is.

 

[Sean Renaud]

When you make something allowable, it's more likely that someone else you don't like will do it. I don't care what party we're discussing.


Because I think it's Executive overreach and I believe all justices will agree. (Even the conservatives)

Nothing about falling in line
....forcing a recess is blatant and political going against the original intent of the Constitution. Previous rulings have already shown that recess appointments have moved away from being fully needed as originally intended. That should easily lend weight to my argument.

See I agree with you in theory. In practice that's just not how it works. I don't think its acceptable to hold the government and our credit rating hostage. Do you think at the end of the next year we'll have 6 months of continuing resolutions as the Dems demand whatever? That's what they did last time isn't it? Oh wait. That's what they did to Bush isn't it? Oh wait. Both parties do not behave the same way and thus this "both sides" or "I don't care" is in real life pro-Republican.

It is Executive over reach. You have a great deal of faith that I don't believe is warranted. I think a best case scenario is a 5/4 in favor of Trump basically no matter what he does. Remember nothing is actually Unconstitutional until the SCOTUS says that it is. I hope you're correct. Absolutely nothing since about 2015 has given me any faith that you can expect a Republican to honor the rules if they don't have to. You can reasonably expect a Democrat to even follow made up rules because of the spirit of reaching across and being bipartisan.

 

[ll74]

See I agree with you in theory. In practice that's just not how it works.

I've never said they will do the same dirty tricks. But the risk is much higher. I hear consistently from Democrats and Republicans who suggest - "we need to do the things that they do else we'll lose"

I don't think its acceptable to hold the government and our credit rating hostage. Do you think at the end of the next year we'll have 6 months of continuing resolutions as the Dems demand whatever? That's what they did last time isn't it? Oh wait. That's what they did to Bush isn't it? Oh wait. Both parties do not behave the same way and thus this "both sides" or "I don't care" is in real life pro-Republican.

It's the pushing of the norms I'm referring to. The more you make something acceptable that once wasn't, the more likely people will take the actions. Logic.

It is Executive over reach. You have a great deal of faith that I don't believe is warranted. I think a best case scenario is a 5/4 in favor of Trump basically no matter what he does. Remember nothing is actually Unconstitutional until the SCOTUS says that it is. I hope you're correct. Absolutely nothing since about 2015 has given me any faith that you can expect a Republican to honor the rules if they don't have to. You can reasonably expect a Democrat to even follow made up rules because of the spirit of reaching across and being bipartisan.

It absolutely is. And Reagan had a shit ton of recess appointments and Democrats were up in arms at the time....and then Clinton came in and decided he'd do the same....and then Bush and then Obama.

It's become the norm.

Same with Executive Order numbers.

You pick sides...I'm just pointing out history. Your mileage may vary.

 

[Politruk]

While Americans voted for Trump and Trump's policies, these two RINO skanks are bust stabbing Americans in the back. The traitors are far worse than the open enemies. Democrats I can respect, however deluded, because they are open in their beliefs.

Skank traitors like these two are beneath contempt. And you can bet your life that they will vote AGAINST Trump's nominees.. Skank traitors is being polite about them.

View attachment 2435573

The phrase "Far-Left Judicial Nominee from the Biden Administration" does not describe a thing that can happen.

 

[ChloeTzang]

I've read it. Of course it's pure pseudoscience -- any theory of historical determinism always is.

Oh, granted. Any social science is pseudoscience. I find it a fascinating theory though and they support their case well. Now that I'd brought it up, I think I'll go back and re-read it. I picked it up a few years ago when I was at Uni and skimmed through it so a lot of it is a bit vague but the parts do seem to be falling into place. According to the authors, the First Turning is a High, the Second Turning is an Awakening, the Third Turning is an Unraveling, and the Fourth Turning is a Crisis - and if you look at where we are now, the Crisis part definitely seems to fit.

So the way they put it, a Crisis occurs when a catalyst — a major event or series of events that creates a mood shift — ignites a significant change in society. According to the authors, major events can happen in any Turning, but only after an Unraveling do they create a society-wide crisis because the anxious, pessimistic, and pre-cataclysmic mood of the Unraveling primes people to respond in a way that creates a societal upheaval.

These events are the culmination of threats that the nation saw coming but failed to properly prepare for, which creates a panic about the nation’s ability to handle such events. In response to this panic, people begin to unite as communities to establish a new social order that demands collective sacrifice to resolve the nation’s problems. The government is appointed to implement and enforce this social order, usually with mixed results. Still, people are willing to endure the government’s missteps—even catastrophic ones—for the sake of decisive action, which can give inordinate power to poor leaders.

Where we are now, and whether or not you agree that Trump is a great leader or a poor leader, the point here is he's been elected to take decisive action after the election of Biden, a notably poor leader who has created a series of society wide crisis - inflation, economic downturn, a coming financial implosion, surging illegal alien invasions, the collapse of public education, societal degeneracy, waves of violent crime and homelessness. That's been "the Unraveling." The war in Ukraine is a part of that, a weak leader allows events to spin out of control, leading to war(s).....

Violence, crime, and income inequality decrease as the Turning progresses. Gender divisions increase again as women and the elderly are expected to leave the workforce to make room for young men. Protectiveness over children is at its highest.

We're just at the start of that Crisis now.....

Eventually, the Crisis peaks, and the social order is at its strongest. Though violence at the public level is low, the risk of national violence such as revolution, civil war, and foreign war increases. Leaders characterize foreign enemies and political opponents as immoral and refuse to compromise, and the use of highly deadly or destructive weaponry increases for the sake of decisive victories in war.

As a result of the Crisis, society is unrecognizably transformed, for better or worse. The resolution of the Crisis cements the new social order and results in an end to wars and conflicts via treaties, the punishment of the “losers,” and the renewal of public life.

 

[ChloeTzang]

The phrase "Far-Left Judicial Nominee from the Biden Administration" does not describe a thing that can happen.

LOL. Correct. It describes something that has already happened

 

[Politruk]

Where we are now, and whether or not you agree that Trump is a great leader or a poor leader, the point here is he's been elected to take decisive action after the election of Biden, a notably poor leader who has created a series of society wide crisis - inflation, economic downturn, a coming financial implosion, surging illegal alien invasions, the collapse of public education, societal degeneracy, waves of violent crime and homelessness.

None of that happened but the inflation, which did not result from anything Biden did.

 

[ChloeTzang]

I've never said they will do the same dirty tricks. But the risk is much higher. I hear consistently from Democrats and Republicans who suggest - "we need to do the things that they do else we'll lose"

It's the pushing of the norms I'm referring to. The more you make something acceptable that once wasn't, the more likely people will take the actions. Logic.

It absolutely is. And Reagan had a shit ton of recess appointments and Democrats were up in arms at the time....and then Clinton came in and decided he'd do the same....and then Bush and then Obama.

It's become the norm.

Same with Executive Order numbers.

You pick sides...I'm just pointing out history. Your mileage may vary.

Yep. 100% agree, and it really doesn't matter which party pushes the envelope. Once it's been pushed, that becomes the new norm. Action begets reaction.

Opposing nominees for the sake of kneecapping the President's ability to appoint the people he wants is the new norm. We saw it in 2016 with Trumps nominees, and we saw it with the Supreme Court where Democrats turned it into a zoo. For no good reason other than sour grapes and a sense of entitlement.

Democrats have lost the concept of democracy, that there are cycles and swings and one party will take power for a while, and then the other. Democrats want a single party to rule, forever. Democracy and the respect for democracy is an alien concept now to most Democrats, who hanker after totalitarianism and the ability to impose their vision on the ignorant masses. The Democratic Party is, unfortunately, now the very threat to democracy that they accuse the Republicans of being.

Democrats have consistently overriden the norms and established procedures, the filibuster being one such. Lawfare is another. The abuse of the hearing process yet another and there are many more. Thing is, what goes around comes around any the GOP is learning from the Democrats, and of course from Alinsky. Karma. And now, many in the GOP advocate for going after Democrats the way Democrats have gone after Republicans. We have to. Because if we don't, Democrats will just do it again.....

So simple.....I think there's some sort of gaming process that describes that but its basically almost impossible to recover from when it starts.

 

[Rebel5soul]

As I said ....until he signs the ethics agreement, nothing is happening. There is no transition.

Basically that's a pile of shit. He was elected, end of discussion.

 

[ChloeTzang]

None of that happened but the inflation, which did not result from anything Biden did.

LOL. Delude yourself on that one, Pol., but don't expect the rest of us to agree.

 

[Sean Renaud]

I still haven't figured out how to break up quotes on this "new" fricking system. At least it doesn't freeze. Yes it does increase the possibility. I'm one of the people who thinks if we don't start playing the game the same way they do we will keep losing. Whether or either side gets results the right can always go home and say "Look we tried every trick in the fucking book and asked for a sequel but fuck J.R.R. Martin. The dragons will be here next time. Its inspiring.

The Dems will come home and say that they wanted to bring America together and did everything we could to reach across the aisle and be bipartisan. That flies in safe places but anywhere that is remotely competitive that really sounds like "Well first chance I got I gave up. I didn't fight." I didn't fucking elect you to be friends with Mitch McConnel. I elected you to push for whatever agenda. Our system IS busted and has been since day one but I'm not really in the mood to go through the whole story there.

The thing is it feels slimy and wrong. I fully understand and agree that Jasmine Crocket is exactly what is needed but this isn't WWE. I shouldn't feel like MTG talked about fake eye lashes and JC had to make sure calling someones a bad built butch body was actually inside the rules then point to the Wrestlemania Banner and meet in a fucking steel cage. It disgusts me. AOC can get a little spicy but she's never remotely as out as her counter parts.

I was there when the Right and Media lost its fucking mind because Pelosi ripped a piece of paper in half. Trump was at least half seriously talking about how that was the destruction of a federal document. I don't really take him seriously which is my own damn fault still. Why was MTG and Boebert treating Biden like it was Open Mike at the Comedy Club basically forgotten. It certainly wasn't a full week of freak outs.

The number of recess appointments was listed above so no, both sides do not do it in equal measure. Lets talk Executive Orders. Obama was at 276 after 8 years. Trump was at 220 after 4. No stop saying that I'm partisan to my side. I'm partisan to fucking numbers. https://www.presidency.ucsb.edu/statistics/data/executive-orders

The issue here is that neither of us are going to dig through every single one of them and I do kinda wish there was some group there there dedicated to what the EOs were and and under what circumstances. I'm sure a solid chunk of Trump's were done because of COVID and I would agree that was not the time to wait for Congress to figure its shit out. I'm not really against pork but there are days when I'm not interested in horse trading. A lot of Obama's definitely had to do with the Banking and Housing Crash and we can have serious debates over what stuff there could have waited.

Then where are a lot of EOs that are basically fixing a bill instead of sending it back to Congress. Thinks like the difference between. "I'm helping Uncle Jack off a horse" and "I'm helping Uncle, jack off a horse" is pretty extreme but you correcting what amounts to a spelling error isn't a problem.

Regardless judging just one the number this is not nor has it been going back at least as far as Reagan been remotely equal. I defer to you on where we should count as "modern" and or "relevant" to modern conversations. In general I don't give a shit about JFK or LBJ or even Nixon and Carter when talking about modern politics. AT least not this part.

 

[Lazaran]

Yep. 100% agree, and it really doesn't matter which party pushes the envelope. Once it's been pushed, that becomes the new norm. Action begets reaction.

Opposing nominees for the sake of kneecapping the President's ability to appoint the people he wants is the new norm. We saw it in 2016 with Trumps nominees, and we saw it with the Supreme Court where Democrats turned it into a zoo. For no good reason other than sour grapes and a sense of entitlement.

Democrats have lost the concept of democracy, that there are cycles and swings and one party will take power for a while, and then the other. Democrats want a single party to rule, forever. Democracy and the respect for democracy is an alien concept now to most Democrats, who hanker after totalitarianism and the ability to impose their vision on the ignorant masses. The Democratic Party is, unfortunately, now the very threat to democracy that they accuse the Republicans of being.

Democrats have consistently overriden the norms and established procedures, the filibuster being one such. Lawfare is another. The abuse of the hearing process yet another and there are many more. Thing is, what goes around comes around any the GOP is learning from the Democrats, and of course from Alinsky. Karma. And now, many in the GOP advocate for going after Democrats the way Democrats have gone after Republicans. We have to. Because if we don't, Democrats will just do it again.....

So simple.....I think there's some sort of gaming process that describes that but its basically almost impossible to recover from when it starts.

Chloe “Chicongo” Tzang is either criminally ignorant or criminally disingenuous: Either way, karma will NOT be kind.



Chloe “Chicongo” Tzang

 

[Politruk]

LOL. Correct. It describes something that has already happened

You're lying.