TMI Comments/feedback

[lovecraft68]

So, I wrote a lot of incest porn.

I got a lot of emails and story comments about how a given scene or story reminded them of the things they used to do with their mothers or sons or sisters or...you get it.

I'm really curious, though. Is it a turn-on to confide a personal sex fantasy as if it really happened to you? Not boasting about some perverse adventure to friends - because I'm betting that these are not the kinds of things that you claim to have done when you're having a beer with your buddies - but telling them to someone who you think will be engaged by it because they make up such stories also?

I think people use the comment section the way others use those 'confession' style threads and sites...and I feel the same way about those as I do most comments here...cool story.

Might be catharsis for a handful, but most is just weirdos looking for attention.

 

[StillStunned]

The worst thing for me is when readers imply that the think of me, the author, while they read.

I don't like that. And the fact that I have a photo of my face as my pfp makes it more disturbing. I mean, yeah. It isn't a crystal clear photograph, but that is me, and I didn't put it up there as wank fodder.

I'd be seriously creeped out if anyone had a wank over my profile pic.

Thank God... SERIOUSLY, THANK GOD I've never had anyone tell me about a real life experience they've had that were similar my story. Mostly that's because my stories are absurd fantasy/sci-fi, I'm sure.

I got a couple when I posted by first I/T story. "When my sister and I were [far below an age that's even remotely acceptable by any standards]... I'll tell you all about it if you want."

 

[MediocreAuthor]

I'd be seriously creeped out if anyone had a wank over my profile pic.

Some guy will probably tell you he likes your "pussy"

 

[HeyAll]

I forgot to mention, there were 2 or 3 of those 'sexual history' comments that I've gotten -- real or not -- which were so good that I saved them and make as part of a story someday soon. You can usually tell if it's any good by the intro, if it's too outlandish or not.

 

[Rob_Royale]

I've gotten a few comments that said, "This reminded me of a fling I had, back in the day." And those are great, I'm glad to have helped someone relive a sexy memory. And I've gotten a couple of, "This made me hard," and I'm cool with those too because that's the point. Titillation is the name of the game. But I haven't gotten any TMI stories. Yet, I suppose.

 

[pink_silk_glove]

I don't like that. And the fact that I have a photo of my face as my pfp makes it more disturbing. I mean, yeah. It isn't a crystal clear photograph, but that is me, and I didn't put it up there as wank fodder.

But you put it up there on a porn site, so what did you expect? Sorry, I'm not trying to be rude or insult you, just putting it into plain direct language.

I don't write self-insert characters, and almost all of my stories would be nightmare fuel in real life.

Neither do I. I find it very limiting. This also connects to that 'technique' that writers here often use when they "leave character descriptions blank so that the reader can form their own images". Not only is this lazy af writing, it also proves that they are really just writing self-insert ready wank fantasies rather than actual stories with development and plot. They can do this is they want, but then it's just an eyeroll when they prance around the forums singing about their red Hs and how they prove that they're a good writer.

 

[StillStunned]

Neither do I. I find it very limiting. This also connects to that 'technique' that writers here often use when they "leave character descriptions blank so that the reader can form their own images". Not only is this lazy af writing, it also proves that they are really just writing self-insert ready wank fantasies rather than actual stories with development and plot. They can do this is they want, but then it's just an eyeroll when they prance around the forums singing about their red Hs and how they prove that they're a good writer.

I'm going to have to disagree.

Have you ever read The Chronicles of Prydain, by Lloyd Alexander? A hugely popular series of children's fantasy books. The main character is never described beyond "scruffy", until by the end he's more mature. His age is never given, even roughly. The main female character is beautiful with red hair, but that's it. And millions of kids all over the world ate it up because *they* could identify with these people, not because author was writing a self-insert fantasy.

I try to avoid giving too much description of my characters, particularly if I'm writing in the first person. Why? Because people very rarely think of themselves in terms of description. Anything that's relevant for the story is mentioned, anything else is left out. The reader's mind fills in the details because this is a site for sex stories, and like it or not readers want to be able to put themselves in the scene.

This isn't "lazy af writing", it's a style choice. The POV in my stories is divided almost evenly between male, female and both (and one that's never specified or implied). These aren't "self-insert ready wank fantasies". Seriously, how many stories do people here want to read about a short middle-aged bloke who has no interest in even touching anyone besides his wife? Because that's what a self-insert would be for me.

I think that a self-insert fantasy would far more likely include a description of the POV character that matches an idealised version of the writer, who then indulges in all the writer's own fantasies.

And just because a writer doesn't describe their POV character doesn't mean they're too lazy to include descriptions. Read my latest stories, for example. The Code includes a lengthy female-gaze description of a man, because his appearance is important to the story (and the female character gets nothing except that her uniform hugs her hips and breasts). Orgy of Death has a 200-word description of the decorations in a palace.

I'll also add that neither story has a red H for me to sing about as I prance around the forums. Eleven of my seventeen other stories do, though. Take from that what you will.

 

[pink_silk_glove]

Have you ever read The Chronicles of Prydain, by Lloyd Alexander? A hugely popular series of children's fantasy books. The main character is never described beyond "scruffy", until by the end he's more mature. His age is never given, even roughly. The main female character is beautiful with red hair, but that's it. And millions of kids all over the world ate it up because *they* could identify with these people, not because author was writing a self-insert fantasy.

Sure there are amazing classic books that have scant descriptions for characters. I can name some myself. They're also 1 - written by amazing writers and 2 - they're not smut centric or even smutty at all, as you say, not self-insert fantasy. But this is an erotica site and you can easily read or not even read just skim through and easily see that so many of these pieces are simply thin smut fantasies.

I try to avoid giving too much description of my characters, particularly if I'm writing in the first person. Why? Because people very rarely think of themselves in terms of description. Anything that's relevant for the story is mentioned, anything else is left out. The reader's mind fills in the details because this is a site for sex stories, and like it or not readers want to be able to put themselves in the scene.

Yes first person is tricky and you don't want to end up in a list: "I was five-foot-seven leggy blonde with 32Cs." There are ways to sneak descriptions in although it does get tricky in a shorter piece.

This isn't "lazy af writing", it's a style choice. The POV in my stories is divided almost evenly between male, female and both (and one that's never specified or implied). These aren't "self-insert ready wank fantasies". Seriously, how many stories do people here want to read about a short middle-aged bloke who has no interest in even touching anyone besides his wife? Because that's what a self-insert would be for me.

In 98% of cases here on lit, it is totally lazy. It's a cop-out. It's the writer's job to describe the people, where they are and what they're doing and sometimes what they're thinking or feeling, and it;s especially true in erotica, a genre where physical attraction is central to everything.

I'll also add that neither story has a red H for me to sing about as I prance around the forums. Eleven of my seventeen other stories do, though. Take from that what you will.

I've never read your stuff so I take nothing, except the fact that you think that I was talking about you.

 

[StillStunned]

I've never read your stuff so I take nothing, except the fact that you think that I was talking about you.

Not me personally, perhaps, but a style that I use, and with a comment that I disagree with. There are plenty of evident self-inserts here on Lit, but I don't think omitting a description of the POV character is the clearest indicator.

 

[ShelbyDawn57]

Some guy will probably tell you he likes your "pussy"

It does have a purty mouth... Just sayin...

 

[StillStunned]

I'm starting to feel dirty...

 

[lovecraft68]

But you put it up there on a porn site, so what did you expect? Sorry, I'm not trying to be rude or insult you, just putting it into plain direct language.



Neither do I. I find it very limiting. This also connects to that 'technique' that writers here often use when they "leave character descriptions blank so that the reader can form their own images". Not only is this lazy af writing, it also proves that they are really just writing self-insert ready wank fantasies rather than actual stories with development and plot. They can do this is they want, but then it's just an eyeroll when they prance around the forums singing about their red Hs and how they prove that they're a good writer.

First part of your post is one of those gray areas. Just because a woman posts a picture of her face, and writes erotica, does it mean she should have to deal with bullshit? That those two things are open invitations for bad behavior? The real answer is no.

But that's idealistic, and in the realistic...it is a case of well, this is the sandbox you chose to play in. No different than if a woman wears a short skirt, then gets pissed when someone is staring at her legs or makes a remark. Should guys(or maybe ladies) gawk or make a lewd remark? No, of course not, but...they do and one can see why. If you're going to 'advertise' so to speak, there will be some guys who will be crude about it, and some who won't.

The second part. This is the counter argument to the "menu" approach where the character is described down to where they have freckles. As always the truth is in between, you can describe the character enough to put an image you want in someone's mind, but give them some wiggle room, but not so little that they just insert their fav porn star into the story or whatever their ideal woman would look like.

I fall in between, I do eye and hair color, slender/curvy will call out a tattoo or the aforementioned patch of freckles, but the breasts are "smallish or ample" their ass is either small or 'a little junk in the trunk' which can let the reader picture what they consider to be small/ample breasts etc...guys have "sizable" cocks...decide what that is to you.

Last, the Red H as a good writer, but then the assumption, just now made by you, that's they're not.

I'm tired of the whining that if they have H's they must pander, and write fake porno stories appealing to the lowest common denominator and aren't 'real writers' and of course anyone without H's must be writing real stories and this site doesn't cater to actual stories and great writers.

Voting here is subjective and the H is a product of voting. There's also way to many variables to list when it comes to why someone might give a 1,3, or 5. This is the platform we're on and the way it works. Most people who whine over H's and top lists and fav counts are the ones that want a trophy for waking up this morning and if they don't have something then no one else should.

Other people see it as a challenge, something to strive for and to be proud of for whatever its worth here.

I'll now take my sea of Red, 21K followers and my 10 shiny blue W's, all indications of what a crappy writer I am, and be off. Sorry, I can't prance right now, my balky right knee is acting up, so I'll have to have a limp around the Literotica arena.

 

[pink_silk_glove]

Last, the Red H as a good writer, but then the assumption, just now made by you, that's they're not.

No it is not my assumption. I have never ever ever made that assumption. You say that you're tired of people putting down red Hs. Well that means that you're tired of me and only me because in the last year that I have been contributing to this forum I am the only one that I can recall who has criticized the voting system here. All that I have ever said and I have clarified this many many times is that the voting system is not a measure of quality of work here, it is simply a measure of popularity, and so I caution anyone who thinks that they're good because they get Red Hs to not fool themselves. I have never ever once said that a Red H means a bad story. I have said that there are plenty of Red H stories that are poorly and very poorly written. I have read red H stuff that is good and very good here, but I've also seen way more 4.7s and 4,8s that stink. This does not mean that your Red H stories are bad. It just means that they are popular. As for pandering, just as quality, a Red H does not necessarily mean that someone has pandered, but in many cases yes the writer has pandered.

The bold part above is your assumption. You are the one so proud about your own scores that you're actually looking for someone to knock you off your pedestal, wanting that confrontation so badly that you'll see it in me where it isn't even there. You read into me what you wanted, not what I actually ever said in this thread nor anywhere else. That's your choice, don't blame me.

 

[AwkwardlySet]

in the last year that I have been contributing to this forum I am the only one that I can recall who has criticized the voting system here.

Ahem...

The voting system is flawed, fundamentally, not because the idea behind the system was bad in itself, but because it is so prone to abuse, which comes out in contests and top lists mostly, but also in the sense of bombing. If everyone used the votes in the way they were first designed then yes, it would have been a decent voting system. It would have still been a measure of popular opinion, of course, but at least it would have been accurate in that sense.

 

[lovecraft68]

Unless I'm completely imagining things, the scoring complaints happen often, but generally tied into the Red H issue and as AS just mentioned the contests have an additional set of voting issues, and I'll go a step further and talk about what a sad joke the annuals are in how few readers vote, and how many that do vote and nominate could be alts because in something like the annuals, a few votes make a big difference.

There's also the votes are no indication of quality debate, the anon one bombers are a voting complaint...

It gets its share of attention here.

 

[pink_silk_glove]

Ahem...

The voting system is flawed, fundamentally, not because the idea behind the system was bad in itself, but because it is so prone to abuse, which comes out in contests and top lists mostly, but also in the sense of bombing. If everyone used the votes in the way they were first designed then yes, it would have been a decent voting system. It would have still been a measure of popular opinion, of course, but at least it would have been accurate in that sense.

That is the flaw, that it is so easily abuseable.

That is like saying, we have come up with atomic theory and we will use it to help mankind and power entire cities. But won't people make bombs to wipe out entire cities with it? No, that's not what it's supposed to be used for so people won't use it for that.

You have to take into account all the ways that people will use it.

Like you say, they system could have been accurate but it's not - at least not as a measure of quality which the vast majority of writers take it to be - it is simply just popularity.

Cardi B: no talent, bad quality shit music, wildly popular. Adam Sandler movies: terrible acting, weak af trope excuses for scripts, not very funny, staggeringly popular. Nothing wrong with that, but don't kid yourself. On the other hand Shawshank Redemption: brilliant movie, extremely popular. Jamiroquai: talented band, positive vibes, fabulous grooves, clever lyrics, immensely popular. So what do the ratings tell us about quality? Nothing.

 

[AwkwardlySet]

That is the flaw, that it is so easily abuseable.

That is like saying, we have come up with atomic theory and we will use it to help mankind and power entire cities. But won't people make bombs to wipe out entire cities with it? No, that's not what it's supposed to be used for so people won't use it for that.

You have to take into account all the ways that people will use it.

Like you say, they system could have been accurate but it's not - at least not as a measure of quality which the vast majority of writers take it to be - it is simply just popularity.

Cardi B: no talent, bad quality shit music, wildly popular. Adam Sandler movies: terrible acting, weak af trope excuses for scripts, not very funny, staggeringly popular. Nothing wrong with that, but don't kid yourself. On the other hand Shawshank Redemption: brilliant movie, extremely popular. Jamiroquai: talented band, positive vibes, fabulous grooves, clever lyrics, immensely popular. So what do the ratings tell us about quality? Nothing.

I didn't mention quality because that's not what these scores represent. These scores represent how much readers liked some story, regardless of how well-written the story is. At first, I had a problem with that, but not anymore. I accept that the scores represent popular opinions and tastes and not actual story quality. What I can't accept is what you mentioned yourself. I can't accept the system being so blatantly abused. In your analogy, those who had developed the atomic theory should have put in place some reliable and decisive measures to prevent anyone from using it as a weapon. I am not sure if it would have been feasible in the world as we know it, probably not, but that would have been the right way to do things.
That being said, it is a million times easier for Lit to fight the abuse of its own system than it is for the UN to control the nuclear armament process. My problem with Lit was and still is its laxness towards abuse of its own policies.

 

[MediocreAuthor]

But you put it up there on a porn site, so what did you expect? Sorry, I'm not trying to be rude or insult you, just putting it into plain direct language.

What I expect and what I prefer are not one in the same

I expect guys to behave like pigs sometimes, but it isn't what I want or what I like
I never acted shocked or surprised, so why would you ask "What do you expect?"

I can expect something and still dislike it

 

[Britva415]

you put it up there on a porn site, so what did you expect? Sorry, I'm not trying to be rude or insult you, just putting it into plain direct language

This shit really smacks of "look what she was wearing and what time she was out, she totally was asking for it."

Where "it," of course, means something heinous, criminal and truly violating. And where "asking for it" means "deserved it."

 

[SimonDoom]

People have been criticizing the voting system and the red H feature for the entire 7 years I've been participating in this forum. I'm one of the more vocal critics of the red H because I think it contributes to the gamesmanship and weird scoring behavior one sees here. I also think it doesn't add any information to the score. But I'm sure the site is not going to get rid of it because authors and readers have grown accustomed to it and the site would be foolish to take away something people depend on.

Authors need to accept the fact that readers can vote on whatever criteria they want. My view is that as long as the reader has actually read the story the reader should feel entitled to vote however the reader wants so long as the vote accurately reflects how the reader feels about the story and isn't just an expression of "I want to piss off this author."

 

[AwkwardlySet]

People have been criticizing the voting system and the red H feature for the entire 7 years I've been participating in this forum.

So you are saying there is something wrong with the system?

 

[pink_silk_glove]

This shit really smacks of "look what she was wearing and what time she was out, she totally was asking for it."

Where "it," of course, means something heinous, criminal and truly violating. And where "asking for it" means "deserved it."

That's the obvious conclusion to jump to, sure.

We had, a couple of months back, a huge heated thread started by an author here who I won't name, who was super angry not only that her brilliant stuff wasn't getting the 5 scores that it deserved, but also that the readership were not converting to her unconventional views. She wanted to post on a porn site and expected that the readership was going to reward her and her work precisely how she wanted them to. It's a rather unreasonable expectation.

Let's take the example of women and how they dress in public. Women should be able to dress however they want and not have to put up with slobbering men, sure. One of my favorite singers Kathleen Hanna of Bikini Kill has stated this adamantly, even furthering the point by performing on stage in nothing but a bra. I can even agree with this. Then there is the opposite, that old religious "hide it or you're asking for it" routine which tends to blame women and forgive men for poor male behavior, which is a terribly short-sighted and oversimplistic way of looking at things.

In between there is the reality. If I dress skimpy, men will drool and if I don't like men drooling on me ... well what do I expect? All the men are going to behave perfectly around me? It's not realistic. If I still feel the need to go around dressing skimpy just to make a point well then I'm going to have to understand the situation, put up with the reality and not cry about it.

Yes, as a woman I can flaunt if I want, but I can also be smart about it.

 

[SimonDoom]

So you are saying there is something wrong with the system?

I've critiqued the system for years, and offered suggestions about how to change it. The change I would make to the red H is making it based on a percentile within the category, so for example the top 25% of all stories in a given category would get a red H. This would make it a more meaningful indicator of something than it currently is. But it would upset people because some people would lose their red Hs and some people would gain them. I doubt the site would want to disturb the status quo.

I think authors would do well, and would save themselves a lot of headaches, by not caring too much about scores. Just keep writing and having fun.

My last story placed in the Halloween contest with a score at that time of 4.93. Then it immediately received lower votes and now, several weeks later, it sits at 4.61. It's a bit of a bummer, but it doesn't bother me. People vote the way they vote. There's nothing one can change about that.

 

[AwkwardlySet]

People vote the way they vote.

Do they, really? Are the scores we receive really the result of every individual voting the way they wanted to vote, and voting ONLY once?
I see no problem with your ideas, and I have proposed some changes myself, but ANY system Lit puts up needs to be upheld, properly. That is Lit's main problem, the unwillingness to enforce its own policies, whatever those are. The way Lit works now, even if some changes in the scoring system were implemented - let's say something along the lines of what many of us suggested here, some people would find a way to abuse the system and Lit would find a way not to care about upholding it.
The admins/owners' attitude towards this problem is lazy at best and hypocritical at worst.

 

[SimonDoom]

Do they, really? Are the scores we receive really the result of every individual voting the way they wanted to vote, and voting ONLY once?
I see no problem with your ideas, and I have proposed some changes myself, but ANY system Lit puts up needs to be upheld, properly. That is Lit's main problem, the unwillingness to enforce its own policies, whatever those are. The way Lit works now, even if some changes in the scoring system were implemented - let's say something along the lines of what many of us suggested here, some people would find a way to abuse the system and Lit would find a way not to care about upholding it.
The admins/owners' attitude towards this problem is lazy at best and hypocritical at worst.

And the consequence of that is . . . what exactly? How important is it, really?

The site has limited resources to ensure the perfection of its voting system. It seems to make some efforts to purge "illegitimate" votes, whatever they are. While there are some changes I'd like to see, I don't feel I'm in a sufficiently knowledgeable position to insist that the site make them.