The new number one

[BooMerengue]

How come I don't get
this kind of critique?
Who do I gotta pay???​

.

 

[CharleyH]

Honey? You can ask me anything you like. Just don't get pissed when I answer! lol

I meant that sometimes there isn't a lot of room on/in a photo to put some poems, so it looks to me sometimes that key words are left out and so the read isn't nise and smooth!

Do I ever? With you?

Well what? Do you want a photoshop job?

Can you say more?

I never looked at the rhythm or cadence of the poem? I always look at meaning, and so it takes precedence, TO ME. What do you think was left out? What made it not smooth to you?

 

[CharleyH]

How come I don't get
this kind of critique?
Who do I gotta pay???​

.

Brinnie?

 

[BooMerengue]

Brinnie?

ohgoddd... I laughed so hard I spit my drink! lmao

No no baby! I said there was none of that in Neo's poem! His moves beautifully!!


still crackin up! Woooohhaaahaahahahahah!!!

 

[CharleyH]

ohgoddd... I laughed so hard I spit my drink! lmao

No no baby! I said there was none of that in Neo's poem! Hos moves beautifully!!


still crackin up! Woooohhaaahaahahahahah!!!

I bet you are beautiful when you laugh! And I love it! LOL because you LOL

OK, Back to Lauren's post Were is Angeline in these critical posts BTW?

 

[BooMerengue]

I bet you are beautiful when you laugh! And I love it! LOL because you LOL

OK, Back to Lauren's post Were is Angeline in these critical posts BTW?

Angeline, like WickedEve, has left the building.

This is where we kiss goodnight. My littlest love is sick and I am taking him to my bed to cuddle and keep watch over. See you tomorrow night!

 

[CharleyH]

Angeline, like WickedEve, has left the building.

So, its you and me?

 

[BooMerengue]

So, its you and me?

Oh! You startled me! I didn't know you were here!

Look up at the last post Dahlink!

 

[CharleyH]

Oh! You startled me! I didn't know you were here!

Look up at the last post Dahlink!

You are leaving, too?

OK silver. Still and cuddle. Thats the best in sickness. Just what one needs. Give a forehead kiss on my behalf.

PS: Sorry, Lauren, for the distraction

 

[Lauren Hynde]

you want to low vote poems on the top 100 list and rearrange it till what, you have a poem on the top list.

Yes, MET, that's exactly it. You saw right through me once again... Darn it.

 

[Lauren Hynde]

I was just talking about the system we have here, which is where the thread started. I can't live online so maybe I miss some of the middle. my interpretation of a topic is just that. As long as it is part of it, comments are welcome IMHO. My response, Lauren, to you, was self evident. The rulers make the rules. It had nothing to do with "Sasebo", which I think is a nice poem, with a nice picture. Is it perfect, a 5? I don't think so, but I haven't seen many poems that I would say are perfect, including ALL of mine. We have a lot of very good poets here, but the vast majority of poetry isn't about making money OR fighting, it is about sharing our thoughts.

Politics will kill the joy.

John

I'm sorry, John, but no, your response was not self evident. You mentioned changes to the top list, and you mentioned unilaterally rising the minimum to 20 votes. That has nothing to do with anything that was being talked about here or anywhere else.

I said that I was going to read a poem. I will choose whatever criteria I want to choose what poem I want to read. Do you mind?

 

[quietpoet]

quote

There was once a thread on a different Poetry Feedback & Discussion here at Lit, started by that legendary figure, the most ruthless and discerning poets' poet, Unmasked Poet. That thread was called "The new #1", and in it, U.P. took upon himself the task of reviewing the #1 ranked poem each time he visited the top list. The idea was to find out what were the strengths and weaknesses of those most popular poems, what makes them tick.

Keep in mind that back then, the top-rated poetry list had a very different look from what it does today. I remember that the first poem I posted received close to 40 votes on the first 10 days, and its 4.60 rating was enough to keep it on the top list for over 2 years. This was a time when there were hardly two poems tied for points anywhere on the list, and the 100th most voted poem had a score a little over 4.50.

I always thought "The new #1" was a pretty cool thread, and one that had the advantage of really making us think and learn. This is why I recently came up with the idea of bringing it back to life. It could be good for the community, since there's always room for more learning, right?

Times have changed, though, and I'm aware of it. If there was ever a day when being #1 was at least a promise of good poetry, that was not today (recently, I mean). For this new version of "The new #1" thread to work, I'm thinking, it should focus on poems that are on the top list, with at least 20 votes, and those poems should have been posted for at least 6 weeks. Surely these criteria would lend some credibility to the choices!

And so, armed with these concepts and decided to find those samples of popularly-chosen excellence, I visited the top-rated list for the first time in almost a year. What I found was - well - devastating.

Poems ranked 01-07: 5.00
Poems ranked 08-15: 4.94
Poems ranked 16-33: 4.93
Poems ranked 34-55: 4.92
Poems ranked 56-83: 4.91
Poems ranked 84-100+: 4.90


Before I do that, though, I need to ask what happened to this list? Somewhere along the way, we, the readers, lost something critical. What was it?

I don't know how else to explain it. This is not a top-rated list of a site with any sense of responsible self-critique. It is a fluff list, pure and simple. I'm not disputing any of the names on that list, and I'm sure that a lot of those 100 poems are truly deserving of the honour, but can this possibly be the top list of a site where every week we see three new threads complaining about low votes and trolls?

There was once a time on a different Poetry Feedback & Discussion here at Lit, when most regular posters decided to disallow votes on their poems so that the new poetry list could start fresh. The reasons were different then, but their solution remains the only sane option I see. The top-rated poetry list is dead. I'm out.

My comment came from the bulk of your email, and the other thread. You decided to change the rules to 20, not me or ET or Angeline or anybody else, even though all have had input. You write 3 or 400 words and include one paragraph about a poem and expect everyone to know that all you want us to do is comment on the poem? Come on, lighten up a bit.

John

 

[Lauren Hynde]

My comment came from the bulk of your email, and the other thread. You decided to change the rules to 20, not me or ET or Angeline or anybody else, even though all have had input. You write 3 or 400 words and include one paragraph about a poem and expect everyone to know that all you want us to do is comment on the poem? Come on, lighten up a bit.

John

What rules did I decide to change? The rules for me to read a poem? Are you serious?

 

[sandspike]

I see all this is......

going to hell in a hand basket.

 

[Tathagata]

I was tempted to go back a few years and post some of the poetry I wrote at another site under an alt and see what happened.
It was awful.
But no one said to me, This is awful and here's why...
I look at the stuff I wrote when I first came here and it's awful.
No one said it was awful and here's why.
Most of the people here encouraged me, pm'd me and made suggestions, etc etc.

My point being no one here started out writing as well as they do now.
To suggest that encouraging bad poets only creates more bad poetry is too broad a statement for my liking.

We all started out " bad'

The problem with this site has become more ego than content.

It always comes back to something about " votes'
I say get rid of the voting system
if people like it they can leave feedback
Without the motivation of " Look I got 4 "5"'s I think a majority of these people who submit poetry would drop off the face of the earth.

All my poems from here on in ( however long I remain) will not have voting enabled.
And when I have an extra hour or so I'll disable the voting on my work already posted.

I have never looked at the top list.
Someone pointed out to me once that one of my poems slipped off it..I had no idea it was on.

I don't write for pats on the back, I don't believe all the good things people say nor all the bad things.
I look at things I wrote 5 months ago and think " this sucks"
I like the suddenly thread and construction thread but even that has overtones apparently
too much public hugging and spillage and what ever.


I shrug at alot of this because in the end none of this will matter one tiny bit.
That doesn't mean I don't care, it means I realize there are more important things, and that all this boils down to opinion ie: egos.

some people will never agree
get over it
that's the way of the world


no matter where you go there will be people who are unhappy about something.

the solution isn't changing "them"
the solution is changing how they affect you

my two cents
means nothing in the end but why should I miss the bitch party


slan go foill

 

[Lauren Hynde]

slan go foill

 

[Du Lac]

Champagne
I appauld you. You were the first to display actually what I feel reading poetry is all about. The quest to learn more. Thank you for taking the time to delve into the inner workings of the poem.

Du Lac~

charleyH and all;

Your commentary on neo's poem really inspired me to do a little more reading on Japanese history, reference Nagasaki and the word/name Setsu.

With a friend's help, I discovered this, forming another tie to the word 'saki' But, my googling didn't stop there! I went on to find a meaning for "setsu". It is the Japanese word for "doctrine", I believe. This is tightly tied into philosophy/zen/martial arts. The samurai had a school in Nagasaki, the atomic bomb destroyed it and the nuclear labs where the Japanese were developing their own nuclear device.

Ironic.

Another tie into Japanese culture is the westernisation of school girls through Anime and manga -- that silhouette is a wonderful illustration reminiscent of the forms used in hentai.

So many layers beyond the obvious 3 of woman, tree and poem.

Thank you, neo.

 

[champagne1982]

I was trying Very cool, Carrie. What do you see in the poem?

I would love for Neo to tell us we were too deep. But this post confirms a dichotomy that I do see in the poem? I could not place the word though, or the end.

Does anyone see dichotomy? Hell, does anyone see what I do? LOL, Before Neo talks!

I think you're brilliant and according to this definition, we all see dichotomy inside Sasebo.

di·chot·o·my n. pl. di·chot·o·mies

1. Division into two usually contradictory parts or opinions: “the dichotomy of the one and the many” (Louis Auchincloss).
2. Astronomy. The phase of the moon, Mercury, or Venus when half of the disk is illuminated.
3. Botany. Branching characterized by successive forking into two approximately equal divisions.

I first took this poem at face value, with all apologies to neo, and heard the voice of a sailor or traveller pining over his departure, either past or present.

The Asian/Japanese link was easy to see, through the subject matter and the illustration, but the body of the woman was too feminine and too western for me to link anything, except that the curves of the tree and that luscious body behind, seemed to have sprouted from the same root.

Admittedly, I hadn't even considered the "Fat Man" and "Little Boy" connections to the work until you pointed them out (and this date, so near the anniversaries of the explosions, too. ) but once I saw the link to that, then I looked deeper, myself.

I remembered the 'nurotic one's interest in anime and martial arts, mentioned merely in passing, either here or on his own site. With that in mind, setsu/Setsu was easy. I had watched a History Channel documentary on the Japanese development of their own bomb just recently, so the Nagasaki samurai school was a fresh piece of information I used to link the poem and the nuclear events.

The thousand white cranes was providential, one beautiful story.

I didn't even realize 'saki' was a misspelling so, of course, the drunk sailor image was solidified even more when I was under the impression that he'd been heavily sedated with rice liquor.

This piece of neo's benefitted immensely from this analysis. Thanks, to all of you for improving my insight into this lovely poem.

 

[Lauren Hynde]

Charley and Carrie, I have to thank you both for the great critiques and analysis. This is going better than I could have hoped for.

 

[Guest]

This has been quite a humbling experience, but I'm glad I was able to grit my teeth and keep my mouth shut long enough to learn something from the different points of view of my illustrated poem, Sasebo.

I think I even grew as a poet with this experience.

Sasebo

I think that a great strength of Neo's illustrated poetry in general and this poem in particular is the complete integration of text and image. The text is not only juxtaposed on the image, but it is a part of it, it is a composition element.

I think you defined what illustrated poetry is with the image and text being an amalgamation—I'm just glad I accomplished that in Sasebo.

neo, so no misunderstandings, what you wrote, I realize was not intended to be a "great poem", I write enough doggeral (here I am refering to my work only) to know intent and the audience. What was done was a pleasant piece for an audience, it was popular, nothing wrong with that.

No misunderstandings, you're crystal.

his illustrations are unique matched by his well woven words
a gem of a poem by a very nice and talented poet. <bigrin>

Thank you, I admire your nature/zen poems as I said before, they remind me of what I see at the other end of my camera lens.

another transition, and a major one in the middle of the poem. It is the only different font that breaks the poem. It breaks it because of its difference,and also from the two opposing fonts that are not the same - one regimented - the other flowing. This choice jagged, and yet appears as a Japanese lettering. The switch is cultural based - not erotic.

Sensual? Sure - under a guise of something else because of choice words in my opinion ad in conjunction with the fonts and images.

"Plum trees" and the font change is the transition in this poem, you're quite right about that. You're also right about Sasebo being sensual cover-up—for reasons not fully understandable at first glance or knowing I like to hide darker messages in most of my writing.

I liked it a lot on first view. Heres why. I thought it flowed nicely from thought to thought. No jerkiness common to poems fit in tight places. The color and texture made me feel peaceful even before I started to read. It made me think of a WW2 veteran looking back at a peaceful interlude. I thought maybe sasebo was a Japanese word for a park or a meadow. Anyway, I just liked it!

Thanks Boo, you got the setting right, being military. The city of Sasebo is a homeport for many sailors and is quite industrialized due to the steel factories. In the middle of it all is a park and a bridge dedicated to Milwaukee as they are sister cities.

I went on to find a meaning for "setsu". It is the Japanese word for "doctrine"

Although that wasn't my intent in choosing the woman's name in my poem, "Setsu" was a teacher of sorts.

I would love for Neo to tell us we were too deep.

Oh no, not too deep, just in a different direction is all, which is good yes? It makes you think.

I didn't even realize 'saki' was a misspelling so, of course, the drunk sailor image was solidified even more when I was under the impression that he'd been heavily sedated with rice liquor.

Bwahaha, how embarassing! My 'saki' is a spelling error, I meant sake the rice wine. Thanks to you and Charley I will have to find a way to er, uhmmm… fix that.


I thank everyone who took the time to looksy a little closer at my poem Sasebo and what they saw. It was interesting to see what you all thought about it. I'm glad it stirred a little debate and research in the Japanese culture.

As for what my intent in the poem, I'd have to give you a brief history about myself in doing so. This poem is deeply personal to me as the pretty image of the female form and tree is a juxtaposed facade of the ugliness of some very bad events that have occured in my life. I'm an ex-navy corpman. I spent a couple years in Guam or Japan. During that time I had an experience with search and rescue of a crashed airliner that killed many people and it triggered my PTSD and the disorders associated with it.

The significance of Sasebo in my poem that is the place where therapy revealed the root of my PTSD from my childhood and is the place where my self-destruction began. I lost myself in alcohol and sex, but did manage to find a real friend in a different world who made that time in my life a little more bearable. If not for my friendship with "Setsu", I wouldn't be here.

Okay that's it. Hopefully, ya'll read my poetry with new eyes as I've revealed quite a lot about myself, more than I'm comfortable with, but sometimes a person doesn't heal/grow until they do the uncomfortable.

Thanks again

 

[Guest]

Dear Poets, I'd appreciate if we can move onto another poem now.

 

[Du Lac]

Bravo to you Neo.. that was big!!!! I thank you for sharing your meaning behind the poem. It is not comfortable to expose yourself and become vulnerable at first but as time passes and we heal what was once disturbing becomes a comfort.
Thank you for your poem and your brave words.
blessings
Du Lac~

PS we have much in common as I learned from your revelations. Now I understand why I feel so much when I read your poems, common pains and joys.
du~

The significance of Sasebo in my poem that is the place where therapy revealed the root of my PTSD from my childhood and is the place where my self-destruction began. I lost myself in alcohol and sex, but did manage to find a real friend in a different world who made that time in my life a little more bearable. If not for my friendship with "Setsu", I wouldn't be here.

Okay that's it. Hopefully, ya'll read my poetry with new eyes as I've revealed quite a lot about myself, more than I'm comfortable with, but sometimes a person doesn't heal/grow until they do the uncomfortable.

Thanks again

 

[Liar]

Dear Poets, I'd appreciate if we can move onto another poem now.

Before I have the chance to pitch in?

Ah, just as well. I had nothing intelligent to say. Possibly about graphic composition and style, but not on the content. Sorry.

 

[flyguy69]

Good lord, Neo, your explanation significantly alters my understanding of the poem! I loved it before primarily for the composition, but the underlying tale of redemption greatly enhances it!

Thanks for sharing this with us.

 

[annaswirls]

I learned so much from this thread. Thank you Neo, for taking us inside your beautiful poem-art. I have always been impressed by you, and have seen you grow. This thread reminded me to look for more depth in simplicity, especially in the visual poems.... So often I read a poem too quickly to let it sink in. Due to the sporadic nature of my participation at lit, I missed this poem when it came out.

There are millions of poems I miss every day it is freakin hard to keep up!

~

This has been quite a humbling experience, but I'm glad I was able to grit my teeth and keep my mouth shut long enough to learn something from the different points of view of my illustrated poem, Sasebo.

I think I even grew as a poet with this experience.

I think you defined what illustrated poetry is with the image and text being an amalgamation—I'm just glad I accomplished that in Sasebo.

No misunderstandings, you're crystal.

Thank you, I admire your nature/zen poems as I said before, they remind me of what I see at the other end of my camera lens.

"Plum trees" and the font change is the transition in this poem, you're quite right about that. You're also right about Sasebo being sensual cover-up—for reasons not fully understandable at first glance or knowing I like to hide darker messages in most of my writing.

Thanks Boo, you got the setting right, being military. The city of Sasebo is a homeport for many sailors and is quite industrialized due to the steel factories. In the middle of it all is a park and a bridge dedicated to Milwaukee as they are sister cities.

Although that wasn't my intent in choosing the woman's name in my poem, "Setsu" was a teacher of sorts.

Oh no, not too deep, just in a different direction is all, which is good yes? It makes you think.

Bwahaha, how embarassing! My 'saki' is a spelling error, I meant sake the rice wine. Thanks to you and Charley I will have to find a way to er, uhmmm… fix that.


I thank everyone who took the time to looksy a little closer at my poem Sasebo and what they saw. It was interesting to see what you all thought about it. I'm glad it stirred a little debate and research in the Japanese culture.

As for what my intent in the poem, I'd have to give you a brief history about myself in doing so. This poem is deeply personal to me as the pretty image of the female form and tree is a juxtaposed facade of the ugliness of some very bad events that have occured in my life. I'm an ex-navy corpman. I spent a couple years in Guam or Japan. During that time I had an experience with search and rescue of a crashed airliner that killed many people and it triggered my PTSD and the disorders associated with it.

The significance of Sasebo in my poem that is the place where therapy revealed the root of my PTSD from my childhood and is the place where my self-destruction began. I lost myself in alcohol and sex, but did manage to find a real friend in a different world who made that time in my life a little more bearable. If not for my friendship with "Setsu", I wouldn't be here.

Okay that's it. Hopefully, ya'll read my poetry with new eyes as I've revealed quite a lot about myself, more than I'm comfortable with, but sometimes a person doesn't heal/grow until they do the uncomfortable.

Thanks again