Subtle submissiveness test

[SimonDoom]

I'm working on a story in which a Dom is interviewing and vetting a potential sub, only he doesn't want her to know that the purpose of the interview is to determine if she is a suitable sub. She thinks she's interviewing for a summer job, and he has other plans. Does anyone know of any resources to consult regarding such an interview/test? Or does anyone have ideas about either questions he might ask her or tasks he might give her to find out whether she has submissive tendencies?

 

[SissySalina]

First, need to know what the pretend job would be, if you don't want someone to know you have to have a reason for asking, then slowly move into the type questions you really want answered.

 

[SimonDoom]

First, need to know what the pretend job would be, if you don't want someone to know you have to have a reason for asking, then slowly move into the type questions you really want answered.

Good point. I haven't quite figured it out, but the basic idea is that the Dom is eccentric and wealthy and lives on a large property. I haven't figured out what his job is yet, but probably an artist or writer or something. She is a college student in desperate need of money to pay tuition and thinks the job is to be his assistant for the summer. I haven't figured out in what capacity. She is intelligent and not an obvious sub -- not someone who has thought of herself as a sub, although she has tendencies that haven't been developed.

I think I've figured this out as I write. He's a successful fantasy/science fiction writer, and he's going to hire her in part to research issues that are relevant to a novel he's working on. But that's only part of what he intends for her. Perhaps she's majoring in folklore or mythology and he can use the interview to quiz her on mythological areas that involve submission and domination, not just to test her knowledge but to test her inclinations. I'm riffing here.

 

[cascadiabound]

This is not true for everyone, but for me, I am not at all submissive in the workplace, only in my intimate relationships, and would not take kindly to being led in an interview off of the job application at hand. Seems you would get a submissive person.... who may or may not be submissive sexually.

 

[SimonDoom]

This is not true for everyone, but for me, I am not at all submissive in the workplace, only in my intimate relationships, and would not take kindly to being led in an interview off of the job application at hand. Seems you would get a submissive person.... who may or may not be submissive sexually.

Yes, I agree it's tricky, and it will be tricky to pull off.

I don't want her to be completely submissive. She has a feisty and assertive streak, which will create some desired conflict. She's not completely comfortable, but a) she's really eager to work with the Dom/author, because she's been a fan, b) she badly needs the money and he's got lots of it, and c) a part of her is genuinely pulled toward the kinky opportunity and exploring this side of herself which is new to her. Plus, she's attracted to the man. He's eccentric but attractive to her in certain ways.

I don't know if this is true or not -- I don't presume -- but you may have a good idea at this point of how you balance submissiveness and nonsubmissiveness in your life. But with the heroine in my story, all of this is new.

But, agreed, it's tricky.

 

[Lascivity]

You've probably seen it already, but the movie Secretary might be a good reference for this. There's a scene where she arrives for a job interview that might get some ideas flying.

 

[SimonDoom]

You've probably seen it already, but the movie Secretary might be a good reference for this. There's a scene where she arrives for a job interview that might get some ideas flying.

I loved that movie and forgot about the interview. I'll rewatch that.

In my book, that's one of the best erotic movies made. I thoroughly enjoyed it and thought the two lead performances were great.

 

[edontario559]

You've probably seen it already, but the movie Secretary might be a good reference for this. There's a scene where she arrives for a job interview that might get some ideas flying.

I thought it was a mediocre movie, but I agree with you that it was a decent example of how relationships often happen. OK, so on here there is no question about whether a person is Dom or Sub, and if we were to meet from a connection here there is an expectation.

The "organic connections" as shown in this movie, where you gently probe and investigate and learn? Just the riskiness of this approach, where at some point someone is going to reveal a kinkiness? That's intoxicating.

When a woman finally admits "I really do need a spanking," or whatever?

That's like finding a nugget of gold in the yard.

 

[AnnieLit]

In a story anything is possible, but I wonder if in real life it is possible to draw any conclusions based on such an interview... He knows that she needs money and that she does not have too many options, so how is he going to distinguish between "kissing your boss' ass" and "kissing your Dom's ass"? This is exactly what half of the sexual harassment lawsuits is about. Well, they are usually just about the sex part, without any D/s component, but if even that is not such an obvious question, how does one add all the submissivness to it and still keeps it half believable?

Actually... I have an idea: the BDSM test! Let's say it is something his character needs in the book, and Dom tells her that he is not sure how accurate results can possibly be, so he would appreciate it if she took the test herself and told him if results were any close to the reality, no details, just her feelings about the results. What she does not know is that he is recording her answers, so that when she leaves he could look them over.

This will not tell him if she'll agree to be HIS sub, but at least he will know that she is not 100% vanilla or a Domme herself.

 

[SimonDoom]

In a story anything is possible, but I wonder if in real life it is possible to draw any conclusions based on such an interview... He knows that she needs money and that she does not have too many options, so how is he going to distinguish between "kissing your boss' ass" and "kissing your Dom's ass"? This is exactly what half of the sexual harassment lawsuits is about. Well, they are usually just about the sex part, without any D/s component, but if even that is not such an obvious question, how does one add all the submissivness to it and still keeps it half believable?

Actually... I have an idea: the BDSM test! Let's say it is something his character needs in the book, and Dom tells her that he is not sure how accurate results can possibly be, so he would appreciate it if she took the test herself and told him if results were any close to the reality, no details, just her feelings about the results. What she does not know is that he is recording her answers, so that when she leaves he could look them over.

This will not tell him if she'll agree to be HIS sub, but at least he will know that she is not 100% vanilla or a Domme herself.

Put yourself in the position of the Dom. He wants a sub, who will be a good sub. But he also wants somebody intelligent who can do research for his book. He is a scrupulous Dom: he doesn't want somebody who's going to fake it just because she needs money. He genuinely wants somebody who, deep down, will want the part. It's tricky.

He can't give her the BDSM test right away because it gives the game away. He needs to be discreet at first. He can let his guard down as the process goes forward, but not at first. So the question is what tests can he give her that don't tip her off about what he's trying to find out.

 

[SissySalina]

sissy question! Why not try being truthful?
Ask for a research assistant for a book on the lifestyle? Would that not draw someone more incline to participate in that lifestyle?

 

[yukonnights]

sissy question! Why not try being truthful?
Ask for a research assistant for a book on the lifestyle? Would that not draw someone more incline to participate in that lifestyle?

I think what Simon is looking for is more subtle than that approach. He wants the sub for his own ulterior purposes as well as a real assistant. The kind of person the Dom wants probably doesn't even know she's a sub at this point. The tension in such a story would be the seduction and leading of the sub to engage in some D/s play. Thus, his need for the right personality type. Think of the professor as a very experienced Dom.

So how would an experienced Dom assess a stranger? In an employment interview, what subtle non-sexual tasks might be asked in a realistic way which wouldn't tip his hand? What kind of non-scene employment related requirements might a non-submissive person balk at while a submissive person would agree to? What body language would he look for in her?

I leave it to those who are more experienced in the D/s dynamic to answer.

 

[AnnieLit]

Put yourself in the position of the Dom. He wants a sub, who will be a good sub. But he also wants somebody intelligent who can do research for his book. He is a scrupulous Dom: he doesn't want somebody who's going to fake it just because she needs money. He genuinely wants somebody who, deep down, will want the part. It's tricky.
.

In the position of the dom I would be looking for a possible assistants among subs, not for a sub among possible assistants.

I understand that he wants somebody who will really fit into both roles, I am just saing that in real life there is absolutely no way to tell the difference between submissivness in general and going an extra mile if you really need that job. Plus, as was mentioned before, D or s in D/s and in normal everyday life have very little to do with each other.

What kind of non-scene employment related requirements might a non-submissive person balk at while a submissive person would agree to?

That's the main problem with all this - submissivness at work depends both of who you are and how much you want the job. Submissivness in the bedroom depends on who you are and who you are with. But "who you are" part is different in these two situations.

It's like ..."he is a good technical writer" and "he writes great fiction" are little bit similar, both people are at a minimum good with grammer, but are not really related. The technical writer might have enough imagination to write good fiction or he might not. The great historical novels author might have the patience and attention to detail to write decent insructional manuals, or he might get bored out of his mind in two hours.
Can you test their English skills in an interview? Sure. Will you know if the person can write fiction after a tech interview? No way! Well, unless they have published before and decide to mention it. But if they have never even tried to write, you will not know know untill they do.

 

[supercollider00]

In the position of the dom I would be looking for a possible assistants among subs, not for a sub among possible assistants.

I understand that he wants somebody who will really fit into both roles, I am just saing that in real life there is absolutely no way to tell the difference between submissivness in general and going an extra mile if you really need that job. Plus, as was mentioned before, D or s in D/s and in normal everyday life have very little to do with each other.

Agreed, and additionally many of us subs are quite far from being submissive in that sense in our day to day and especially professional lives. Personally, I'm far from submissive in the work force, quite the contrary really. But in the bedroom I definitely know where my place is!

 

[SimonDoom]

sissy question! Why not try being truthful?
Ask for a research assistant for a book on the lifestyle? Would that not draw someone more incline to participate in that lifestyle?

An excellent question. Yukonnights is correct: he wants to take a more subtle approach.

Part of it is that he has to be careful. He is a very private and discreet person who wants someone to help him with his book but also wants a sub, and he's going to pay her, but he can't very well let it get out that he's doing this. He's taking a risk. If the university that she's going to were to learn that this famous author was hiring students to be sexual subs, it could ruin his reputation and relationship with the university.

The purpose of his interview test/questions will become clear with time, but not right away.

The heroine of the story is not going to be a perfect fit as a sub. It will be a challenge for her, and it will be a challenge for him. That's an essential part of the story. What they end up going through will be new for both of them.

The premise may seem contrived to some, and perhaps it doesn't match up with anyone's real-life experience with this lifestyle, but that's fine with me. I don't think fiction has to be real, or to correspond with anything real. All that's needed is verisimilitude -- once the premise is stated, howeever unrrealistic it may be, it has to be dealt with in a way that gives it some appearance of reality. That's what I'm striving for.

The comments so far have been very helpful. They're giving me a lot of ideas.

 

[AnnieLit]

Just another idea:
- he is a "serious" writer and this is how she knows and likes him.
- he also writes romance novels under a different name, the type of novels sold in every airport. His brand are novels about pirats, abducted princesses, and such. Not overly sexual, no real BDSM in them, but the princess always falls in love with her captor.

So, before the interview he asks her to sign a non-disclosure agreement, then tells her about his second line of writing and as a test assignment asks her to research something for the book he is currently working on. She is surprised, but agrees to work on that. The assignment involves not finding out accurate historical details, but checking through similar publications to see if anybody already did some particular story twist that he wants to do.

To do that she has to read through a lot of these stories. When she comes back they talk about the assignment, he praises her for the work well done, and then the talk turns to the story itself and they start talking about why (some) woman are drawn to them in the first place. This should not alarm her as it is a far cry from any real D/s, she is not warried too much about the job either (he just praised her for her work), so she might open up and talk about how she sees these scenarios and why she herself likes (or does not like) them, what appeals to her and what does not. This might show her sexual submissivness much better than any assignment directly related to her job.

 

[SimonDoom]

Just another idea:
- he is a "serious" writer and this is how she knows and likes him.
- he also writes romance novels under a different name, the type of novels sold in every airport. His brand are novels about pirats, abducted princesses, and such. Not overly sexual, no real BDSM in them, but the princess always falls in love with her captor.

So, before the interview he asks her to sign a non-disclosure agreement, then tells her about his second line of writing and as a test assignment asks her to research something for the book he is currently working on. She is surprised, but agrees to work on that. The assignment involves not finding out accurate historical details, but checking through similar publications to see if anybody already did some particular story twist that he wants to do.

To do that she has to read through a lot of these stories. When she comes back they talk about the assignment, he praises her for the work well done, and then the talk turns to the story itself and they start talking about why (some) woman are drawn to them in the first place. This should not alarm her as it is a far cry from any real D/s, she is not warried too much about the job either (he just praised her for her work), so she might open up and talk about how she sees these scenarios and why she herself likes (or does not like) them, what appeals to her and what does not. This might show her sexual submissivness much better than any assignment directly related to her job.

It's interesting that you wrote this because I was trying to figure out how to deal with this issue and came up with a somewhat different take with some similarities.

He writes novels that are not overtly D/s but that have romantic or fantasy themes that have subtle D/s elements. He taught a class at the university, and she took the class. She wrote an essay that caught his attention because it revealed a potential sub perspective. So by the time she interviews with him she's already interested in him and he already has some reason to believe she may have these elements. All this would happen before the story starts so I don't have to take up too much story time with this part of the story. He already has reason to believe she has this side to her, so I can sidestep the improbability that he's going to find out she's a sub in the interview by random chance -- that would be almost too lucky to be believable.

Instead of having her do a reading assignment, I think it would be more effective for story purposes to have him ask her about sections in stories he's written and to explore what she thinks. That way it can take place in dialogue, which is easier and more enjoyable for the reader. But I like the idea of a discussion between them about his stories that becomes a kind of cat and mouse adventure.

I thought about the nondisclosure agreement. That makes sense too.

 

[AnnieLit]

It's interesting that you wrote this because I was trying to figure out how to deal with this issue and came up with a somewhat different take with some similarities.

He writes novels that are not overtly D/s but that have romantic or fantasy themes that have subtle D/s elements. He taught a class at the university, and she took the class. She wrote an essay that caught his attention because it revealed a potential sub perspective. So by the time she interviews with him she's already interested in him and he already has some reason to believe she may have these elements. All this would happen before the story starts so I don't have to take up too much story time with this part of the story. He already has reason to believe she has this side to her, so I can sidestep the improbability that he's going to find out she's a sub in the interview by random chance -- that would be almost too lucky to be believable.

Instead of having her do a reading assignment, I think it would be more effective for story purposes to have him ask her about sections in stories he's written and to explore what she thinks. That way it can take place in dialogue, which is easier and more enjoyable for the reader. But I like the idea of a discussion between them about his stories that becomes a kind of cat and mouse adventure.

I thought about the nondisclosure agreement. That makes sense too.

Well, you said he is a writer, he needs a way to talk about D/s themes, and it has to be kept PG for the time being.... Not too many ways to put it all together, so not surprising that we came up with similar themes

In you take, is he asking her what she thinks about his books as part of her job or as a friendly chit-chat? The problem with the first one is that it does not sound like a plausable job description. A new author might pay somebody to take a look at his work, but this is a completely different situation and him paying her to discuss her opinions on his books... Well, if you are going for plausibility, this is not it

With non-disclosure you need a very specific reason why he needs it. Not to reveal his pen name is one thing, but to prevent her from going to the police and filing a sexual harassment report is very different.

 

[cookiecat]

Without offending you, the premise reminded me of 50 Shades.... Dominant wealthy man sees something worth discovering in a feisty broke ingenue.

Disclaimer: I am not a writer. The replies you've received here are clearly more helpful than I could be. So take my comment with a grain of salt!!

 

[AnnieLit]

Without offending you, the premise reminded me of 50 Shades.... Dominant wealthy man sees something worth discovering in a feisty broke ingenue.

Disclaimer: I am not a writer. The replies you've received here are clearly more helpful than I could be. So take my comment with a grain of salt!!

You are not the only one who thought about 50 shades
From what I can see, here the age difference is much bigger and, I hope, the girl is actually a sub, not a parody on one.

 

[SimonDoom]

Without offending you, the premise reminded me of 50 Shades.... Dominant wealthy man sees something worth discovering in a feisty broke ingenue.

Disclaimer: I am not a writer. The replies you've received here are clearly more helpful than I could be. So take my comment with a grain of salt!!

No offense at all. Of course, that occurred to me too. There are similarities in the premise, but my story will play out very, very differently.

50 Shades itself isn't original. It's just a modern, BDSM-flavored take on the classic gothic romance -- feisty impoverished ingenue meets mysterious powerful rich man. My intended story has elements of that too.

 

[Bramblethorn]

I think I've figured this out as I write. He's a successful fantasy/science fiction writer, and he's going to hire her in part to research issues that are relevant to a novel he's working on. But that's only part of what he intends for her. Perhaps she's majoring in folklore or mythology and he can use the interview to quiz her on mythological areas that involve submission and domination, not just to test her knowledge but to test her inclinations. I'm riffing here.

I think others have already made the point that, depending on how she integrates her bedroom tastes with her professional life, there may not be a subtle way to ask this. Sometimes you just gotta use your words and ask for what you want.

But it's a fun premise, so let's assume that she's somebody who is open to the possibility of blurring those lines. Given the SF/F angle, one option would be to ask her what she enjoys in that genre. If she picks Jacqueline Carey, A.N. Roquelaire, John Norman, and she coos over his Slave Girl Leia figurine, well, that's a strong hint...

 

[SimonDoom]

I think others have already made the point that, depending on how she integrates her bedroom tastes with her professional life, there may not be a subtle way to ask this. Sometimes you just gotta use your words and ask for what you want.

But it's a fun premise, so let's assume that she's somebody who is open to the possibility of blurring those lines. Given the SF/F angle, one option would be to ask her what she enjoys in that genre. If she picks Jacqueline Carey, A.N. Roquelaire, John Norman, and she coos over his Slave Girl Leia figurine, well, that's a strong hint...

Yes, but not quite subtle enough, and I don't want her to be someone who already is intimately familiar with the literature in this area. She's very much a newbie. I think I will have him ask her questions about scenes and situations in his books so he can find out what her answers are -- scenes and situations where elements of D/s exist but are not necessarily explicit. I have to figure out what those scenes and situations will be and what her answers will be.

But at some point he's going to have to take the plunge: just ask her outright if she's interested in what he's interested in. It will involve uncertainty and risk, and that will be part of the fun. He will only do it after he feels he has good reason to believe, though he's not 100% confident, that she will say yes.

The story isn't about subterfuge or deception or manipulation, though the interaction will start with his disguising his true motives. It will be essential that she meaningfully and knowingly consent. That, to me, is what makes BDSM an interesting category to write and read.

 

[Ginlover]

On my phone so not read the full thread so sorry if already suggested

In questions he finds something she is not keen on but isn't a total no go area.. Then sees if he can gently support her to be open to trying with out coersion
Not a good example for a scifi writer but here is an example
I have several vegetarian friends who say the smell of bacon cooking makes their mouths water and if they were to eat meat it would be a bacon sandwich, in fact I know one who has bacon a couple of times a year to meet the craving. She tells him.about bacon he then asks if it was part of the job role to try bacon how would she feel.about it
If her reply is well I kind of want to but youd have to promise none of my vegetarian friends could know....

My other idea was when you said artist but is too stereotypical. He asks if she'll pose clothed then puts her in an uncomfortable but not erotic position and asks how long she could hold it but also why and how she feels doing it

So it doesnt come across s manipulation it's her feedback that's the difference between a submissive looking for a safe place to be submissive and a woman forced by the situation to accept being submissive for the job

 

[Master_Doctor]

I'm working on a story in which a Dom is interviewing and vetting a potential sub, only he doesn't want her to know that the purpose of the interview is to determine if she is a suitable sub. She thinks she's interviewing for a summer job, and he has other plans. Does anyone know of any resources to consult regarding such an interview/test? Or does anyone have ideas about either questions he might ask her or tasks he might give her to find out whether she has submissive tendencies?

Ok, I was asked for my take on this based on my RL experience. There are a couple Honest, RL options. First of all, in many job interviews now a days you might be asked to take a Psych test. or a personality test. Normally these are used to test if the person is predisposed to being a theif, having anti social quirks, natural tendencies to attention to detail, loyalty etc. These can easily be modified with questions that would indicate a possible submissive tendency.

I agree completely with the person who stated their personality at work is totally different than theirs at home. I even wrote a paper, about 2 years after my doctorate, about why many women in my generation became submissives (away from work) and how they had to be controlling and almost dominate to survive in the work place. However, some people ARE naturally submissive at their core. I believe this type of sub is more in line with your narrative.

In addition. Ive been a Dom/ Master for over 2 decades now. I can promise you that a natural sub (at her core) is pretty easy to read and detect for me. I would be pretty easy for me to read her body language and responses during an interview or probation training to see if they had submissive tendencies. This in no way determines if she would submit to ME however . That takes more time (usually) If you are trying for more realism, I would suggest that he offer her a short term probation. Thirty or ninety days for him to really study her tendencies. Perhaps a

Possible other suggestions. Subtle questions to Personal and professional references she put on her application would help make a case. Granted you can be very assertive and still be a sub at heart... though they are rare. Few people in reality have high self esteem. The ones that make you think they have it often times have the worst. Submissives who have high self esteem are those that know what they are, and own it. I think in your story you are seeking someone relatively naive about their sub nature and develops and understanding of it as the story unfolds.

I hope this helps and have value for you.


Also.