Storytelling, BDSM, and catharsis - a scientific basis for same?

neonflux

Out and about...
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A couple of days ago, the New York Times had an article in their health section on the cathartic and thereaputic aspects of storytelling. There have been a number of threads on the healing power of BDSM, and it strikes me that healing BDSM play certainly allows oneself to rewrite one's story. I know that is what I did during my cleansing, which was structured around exactly that - particularly in my responses to my father's illness (which impacted my openess to intimacy for most of my adult life) and to my getting herpes. Breathplay when bottoming is almost the only thing that will easily put me into sub space and I am sure that this is linked to my having severe asthma as a child and to watching my father as both of his lungs collapsed on him due to emphysema. I have heard of people who have been able to reframe experiences with prejudice/discrimination, abuse, etc. through their kink.

I would be interested to hear what others think, what others experiences have been. What kind of storytelling has influenced your BDSM play? As a PYL/pyl, how has BDSM helped you to reframe your own stories?

I am reposting the whole article below, for information's sake.

:rose: Neon

New York Times
May 22, 2007
This Is Your Life (and How You Tell It)

By BENEDICT CAREY
For more than a century, researchers have been trying to work out the raw ingredients that account for personality, the sweetness and neuroses that make Anna Anna, the sluggishness and sensitivity that make Andrew Andrew. They have largely ignored the first-person explanation — the life story that people themselves tell about who they are, and why.

Stories are stories, after all. The attractive stranger at the airport bar hears one version, the parole officer another, and the P.T.A. board gets something entirely different. Moreover, the tone, the lessons, even the facts in a life story can all shift in the changing light of a person’s mood, its major notes turning minor, its depths appearing shallow.

Yet in the past decade or so a handful of psychologists have argued that the quicksilver elements of personal narrative belong in any three-dimensional picture of personality. And a burst of new findings are now helping them make the case. Generous, civic-minded adults from diverse backgrounds tell life stories with very similar and telling features, studies find; so likewise do people who have overcome mental distress through psychotherapy.

Every American may be working on a screenplay, but we are also continually updating a treatment of our own life — and the way in which we visualize each scene not only shapes how we think about ourselves, but how we behave, new studies find. By better understanding how life stories are built, this work suggests, people may be able to alter their own narrative, in small ways and perhaps large ones.

“When we first started studying life stories, people thought it was just idle curiosity — stories, isn’t that cool?” said Dan P. McAdams, a professor of psychology at Northwestern and author of the 2006 book, “The Redemptive Self.” “Well, we find that these narratives guide behavior in every moment, and frame not only how we see the past but how we see ourselves in the future.”

Researchers have found that the human brain has a natural affinity for narrative construction. People tend to remember facts more accurately if they encounter them in a story rather than in a list, studies find; and they rate legal arguments as more convincing when built into narrative tales rather than on legal precedent.

YouTube routines notwithstanding, most people do not begin to see themselves in the midst of a tale with a beginning, middle and eventual end until they are teenagers. “Younger kids see themselves in terms of broad, stable traits: ‘I like baseball but not soccer,’ ” said Kate McLean, a psychologist at the University of Toronto in Mississauga. “This meaning-making capability — to talk about growth, to explain what something says about who I am — develops across adolescence.”

Psychologists know what life stories look like when they are fully hatched, at least for some Americans. Over the years, Dr. McAdams and others have interviewed hundreds of men and women, most in their 30s and older.

During a standard life-story interview, people describe phases of their lives as if they were outlining chapters, from the sandlot years through adolescence and middle age. They also describe several crucial scenes in detail, including high points (the graduation speech, complete with verbal drum roll); low points (the college nervous breakdown, complete with the list of witnesses); and turning points. The entire two-hour session is recorded and transcribed.

In analyzing the texts, the researchers found strong correlations between the content of people’s current lives and the stories they tell. Those with mood problems have many good memories, but these scenes are usually tainted by some dark detail. The pride of college graduation is spoiled when a friend makes a cutting remark. The wedding party was wonderful until the best man collapsed from drink. A note of disappointment seems to close each narrative phrase.

By contrast, so-called generative adults — those who score highly on tests measuring civic-mindedness, and who are likely to be energetic and involved — tend to see many of the events in their life in the reverse order, as linked by themes of redemption. They flunked sixth grade but met a wonderful counselor and made honor roll in seventh. They were laid low by divorce, only to meet a wonderful new partner. Often, too, they say they felt singled out from very early in life — protected, even as others nearby suffered.

In broad outline, the researchers report, such tales express distinctly American cultural narratives, of emancipation or atonement, of Horatio Alger advancement, of epiphany and second chances. Depending on the person, the story itself might be nuanced or simplistic, powerfully dramatic or cloyingly pious. But the point is that the narrative themes are, as much as any other trait, driving factors in people’s behavior, the researchers say.

“We find that when it comes to the big choices people make — should I marry this person? should I take this job? should I move across the country? — they draw on these stories implicitly, whether they know they are working from them or not,” Dr. McAdams said.

Any life story is by definition a retrospective reconstruction, at least in part an outgrowth of native temperament. Yet the research so far suggests that people’s life stories are neither rigid nor wildly variable, but rather change gradually over time, in close tandem with meaningful life events.

Jonathan Adler, a researcher at Northwestern, has found that people’s accounts of their experiences in psychotherapy provide clues about the nature of their recovery. In a recent study presented at the annual meeting of the Society for Personality and Social Psychology in January, Mr. Adler reported on 180 adults from the Chicago area who had recently completed a course of talk therapy. They sought treatment for things like depression, anxiety, marital problems and fear of flying, and spent months to years in therapy.

At some level, talk therapy has always been an exercise in replaying and reinterpreting each person’s unique life story. Yet Mr. Adler found that in fact those former patients who scored highest on measures of well-being — who had recovered, by standard measures — told very similar tales about their experiences.

They described their problem, whether depression or an eating disorder, as coming on suddenly, as if out of nowhere. They characterized their difficulty as if it were an outside enemy, often giving it a name (the black dog, the walk of shame). And eventually they conquered it.

“The story is one of victorious battle: ‘I ended therapy because I could overcome this on my own,’ ” Mr. Adler said. Those in the study who scored lower on measures of psychological well-being were more likely to see their moods and behavior problems as a part of their own character, rather than as a villain to be defeated. To them, therapy was part of a continuing adaptation, not a decisive battle.

The findings suggest that psychotherapy, when it is effective, gives people who are feeling helpless a sense of their own power, in effect altering their life story even as they work to disarm their own demons, Mr. Adler said.

Mental resilience relies in part on exactly this kind of autobiographical storytelling, moment to moment, when navigating life’s stings and sorrows. To better understand how stories are built in real time, researchers have recently studied how people recall vivid scenes from recent memory. They find that one important factor is the perspective people take when they revisit the scene — whether in the first person, or in the third person, as if they were watching themselves in a movie.

In a 2005 study reported in the journal Psychological Science, researchers at Columbia University measured how student participants reacted to a bad memory, whether an argument or failed exam, when it was recalled in the third person. They tested levels of conscious and unconscious hostility after the recollections, using both standard questionnaires and students’ essays. The investigators found that the third-person scenes were significantly less upsetting, compared with bad memories recalled in the first person.

“What our experiment showed is that this shift in perspective, having this distance from yourself, allows you to relive the experience and focus on why you’re feeling upset,” instead of being immersed in it, said Ethan Kross, the study’s lead author. The emotional content of the memory is still felt, he said, but its sting is blunted as the brain frames its meaning, as it builds the story.

Taken together, these findings suggest a kind of give and take between life stories and individual memories, between the larger screenplay and the individual scenes. The way people replay and recast memories, day by day, deepens and reshapes their larger life story. And as it evolves, that larger story in turn colors the interpretation of the scenes.

Nic Weststrate, 23, a student living in Toronto, said he was able to reinterpret many of his most painful memories with more compassion after having come out as a gay man. He was very hard on himself, for instance, when at age 20 he misjudged a relationship with a friend who turned out to be straight.

He now sees the end of that relationship as both a painful lesson and part of a larger narrative. “I really had no meaningful story for my life then,” he said, “and I think if I had been open about being gay I might not have put myself in that position, and he probably wouldn’t have either.”

After coming out, he said: “I saw that there were other possibilities. I would be presenting myself openly to a gay audience, and just having a coherent story about who I am made a big difference. It affects how you see the past, but it also really affects your future.”

Psychologists have shown just how interpretations of memories can alter future behavior. In an experiment published in 2005, researchers had college students who described themselves as socially awkward in high school recall one of their most embarrassing moments. Half of the students reimagined the humiliation in the first person, and the other half pictured it in the third person.

Two clear differences emerged. Those who replayed the scene in the third person rated themselves as having changed significantly since high school — much more so than the first-person group did. The third-person perspective allowed people to reflect on the meaning of their social miscues, the authors suggest, and thus to perceive more psychological growth.

And their behavior changed, too. After completing the psychological questionnaires, each study participant spent time in a waiting room with another student, someone the research subject thought was taking part in the study. In fact the person was working for the research team, and secretly recorded the conversation between the pair, if any. This double agent had no idea which study participants had just relived a high school horror, and which had viewed theirs as a movie scene.

The recordings showed that members of the third-person group were much more sociable than the others. “They were more likely to initiate a conversation, after having perceived themselves as more changed,” said Lisa Libby, the lead author and a psychologist at Ohio State University. She added, “We think that feeling you have changed frees you up to behave as if you have; you think, ‘Wow, I’ve really made some progress’ and it gives you some real momentum.”

Dr. Libby and others have found that projecting future actions in the third person may also affect what people later do, as well. In another study, students who pictured themselves voting for president in the 2004 election, from a third-person perspective, were more likely to actually go to the polls than those imagining themselves casting votes in the first person.

The implications of these results for self-improvement, whether sticking to a diet or finishing a degree or a novel, are still unknown. Likewise, experts say, it is unclear whether such scene-making is more functional for some people, and some memories, than for others. And no one yet knows how fundamental personality factors, like neuroticism or extraversion, shape the content of life stories or their component scenes.

But the new research is giving narrative psychologists something they did not have before: a coherent story to tell. Seeing oneself as acting in a movie or a play is not merely fantasy or indulgence; it is fundamental to how people work out who it is they are, and may become.

“The idea that whoever appeared onstage would play not me but a character was central to imagining how to make the narrative: I would need to see myself from outside,” the writer Joan Didion has said of “The Year of Magical Thinking,” her autobiographical play about mourning the death of her husband and her daughter. “I would need to locate the dissonance between the person I thought I was and the person other people saw.”
 
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P.s....

I am very interested in reading folks' experiences, but I won't be able to read or repost again until Monday A.M. as I will be away from a computer which will allow me access to Lit until then! Do please don't think that I'm ignoring my own thread! :rose:
 
neonflux said:
I am very interested in reading folks' experiences, but I won't be able to read or repost again until Monday A.M. as I will be away from a computer which will allow me access to Lit until then! Do please don't think that I'm ignoring my own thread! :rose:
good - now I have some time to ponder your outstanding question...

kiss-pucker2C20imprint.gif
 
i'm not sure if this is what your looking for... i am a survivor of childhood sexual abuse. This caused me to have a lack of trust for anyone. Through BDSM i have slowly started to trust others again...now there are still very few people that i trust... but just the fact that there are a few is huge for me. Bondage and pain especially have a huge role in my healing process. it feels so good to finally to be able to trust someone enough to just let go and not be afraid.
 
neonflux said:
I am very interested in reading folks' experiences, but I won't be able to read or repost again until Monday A.M. as I will be away from a computer which will allow me access to Lit until then! Do please don't think that I'm ignoring my own thread! :rose:
Mmmnyum brain candy please see post #3 for my current status .

Miss Neon :rose:

EditWell Miss Neon I returned and read the article again. I think it puts forth very interesting concepts to consider and reconcile if moving into that third person narrative is attainable. I simply can't do it. Isolating one experience is misleading dealing with History impossible. The fact that I do pillar of salt when it comes to writing tasks certainly doesn't assist . You will have to forgive me on this one . Thank you again for the article I am genuinely grateful to have had the opportunity :rose:
 
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Great article Neonflux.

Great questions and ideas as well.

As a storyteller who is very interested in stories that help heal and a person who is into BDSM, this thread interests me a great deal.

Wouldn't it be great to have a healing center that employed these things? Wow.

Fury :rose:
 
Well, digging deep to the subbie stuff will be hard. So I'll start with something else. For sure, the idea of topping a pretty boy is because that's the guy I never would have dared look at when I was younger. I was way too afraid of rejection. Being agressive with a boy like that is cathartic then. Because I'm rewriting the story. It used to be - oh, no one will like me. I've got curves, and pale skin and I'm not shy or quiet. But in Top mode, it's like...I'm not even the issue. There's a hot guy. I like his body. Why shouldn't I make him do my bidding?

As I said, the stories involved with submitting are much deeper and mostly kept locked away. But maybe I'll come up with one to share. ;)
 
Very interesting topic Neon (and not a surprise coming from you :) ). I absolutely believe along these lines. I am a sexual abuse survivor at the hands of abusers who were sadistic (I hate to say they were bdsm folks considering they were abusing kids without conscience - but they were). I know that my roots in bdsm began with my abuse. I know that over time I have managed to find that "sweet spot" that allowed me to transition what use to be triggers to major decompensation to presence and pleasure. That transition process has been thru sharing/story telling over the years which I believe has allowed me to numb out a certain amount of it until I was able to be comfortable enough to actually feel the depth of the feelings. I am a psych nurse by training and I learned to use my experiences in helping others but I will admit it took me awhile to help myself in some of the areas (considering the depth of the "injury").

~kierae :rose:
 
Thankyou, Neon, for the article and for starting this thread.

For my own musings and thoughts:-

I have come late to "story writing", though I have also experienced the process of story telling in therapy following a breakdown.

In both cases, I have had the chance to explore alternative views of the past and the future.

In the past, I have chosen to suppress parts of myself in order to please others, (or rather, in an attempt to please others). However, the BDSM framework has allowed me to write a new script where I can be selfish for myself, and still please others at the same time.

As in a counselling environment where the therapist offers a non judgmental space for us to speak out our fears and hopes, BDSM has allowed me to act out some of those same fears and hopes. Whereas I had previously seen myself as a powerless victim of others, I can now retell that story as co-author, aided by the loving trust I build up with my partner in the journey. Out of the disorder I have inside, I can start to weave a web of order.

So yes...by both my writing, and by my persona, I would say that I am learning to externalise my old fears and scripts, and learning to find a redemption through them.

Anyway...that is as far as I have got so far.
 
I would be interested to hear what others think, what others experiences have been. What kind of storytelling has influenced your BDSM play? As a PYL/pyl, how has BDSM helped you to reframe your own stories?

Hello Neonflux,

I don't have time to read the entire article right now but I wanted to post my answer to the above question. This came up in the Daddy/girl dynamic thread for me also. One "story" I have been living is that I couldn't possibly enjoy the D/g dynamic because of past abuse. It became a script I played over and over in my head. I have recently awakened to how much I am actually attracted to D/g. Because of the support of a special someone I don't feel guilty or disgusted about this anymore. This hasn't changed the original abuse "story" but has helped reframe the way I reacted to this particular aspect of it. So in this way I have changed my own story through BDSM. Does that make sense?

This is actually one of the attractions for me to BDSM. Unfortunately, I don't know when it will be possible for me to experience the physical side of it. So, the psychological aspects of it are fascinating.

Ivy :rose:
 
Well, it's later than Monday A.M. - blame a head cold and my being in grantwriting hell right now, but I am here... Thank you to everyone for responding so thoughtfully.

nh23 said:
i'm not sure if this is what your looking for... i am a survivor of childhood sexual abuse. This caused me to have a lack of trust for anyone. Through BDSM i have slowly started to trust others again...now there are still very few people that i trust... but just the fact that there are a few is huge for me. Bondage and pain especially have a huge role in my healing process. it feels so good to finally to be able to trust someone enough to just let go and not be afraid.
:rose: Thank you for this remarkable story. The trust that you speak of - I definitely connect to this. While my relationship with my father was not abusive, his illness and the resulting sense of abandonment I felt left me very afraid of intimacy - that also being a trust issue that my cleansing, and subsequent BDSM experiences have also brought me to challenge. Is the healing that you've gotten from bondage and pain specifically related to the trust that results from letting go, or is it also connected to something else? I ask because during my cleansing, I think that the pain pushed me to make an emotional connection to perspectives I'd only previously understood on an intellectual level.

FurryFury said:
Great questions and ideas as well.

As a storyteller who is very interested in stories that help heal and a person who is into BDSM, this thread interests me a great deal.

Wouldn't it be great to have a healing center that employed these things? Wow.
I can see it now - it will begin with the occassional paper presented by kink-positive practitioners and researchers at psychology and psychiatry conferences (for instance, "Use of Physical Pain and Role-Play with Severely Depressed Patients in the Development of a New Gestalt") then continue with the occassional offering of graduate courses entitled something along the lines of Beyond Shock Treatments: Radical Storytelling Techniques for the Psychiatrist, to the establishment of Radical Erotic Role Play Centers for Self-Actualization all over the country, LOL (Hey, think we could getta' grant?) On a more serious note, yea, WOW! :D

intothewoods said:
Well, digging deep to the subbie stuff will be hard. So I'll start with something else. For sure, the idea of topping a pretty boy is because that's the guy I never would have dared look at when I was younger. I was way too afraid of rejection. Being agressive with a boy like that is cathartic then. Because I'm rewriting the story. It used to be - oh, no one will like me. I've got curves, and pale skin and I'm not shy or quiet. But in Top mode, it's like...I'm not even the issue. There's a hot guy. I like his body. Why shouldn't I make him do my bidding?
I loved this! :nana: And stories from the other side certainly welcome but never expected. Thank you :said with great gentleness and respect:

Kierae said:
Very interesting topic Neon (and not a surprise coming from you ).
Glad to do my part to hold up the Lit image of the BDSM forums as being "too serious," LOL.
Kierae said:
I absolutely believe along these lines. I am a sexual abuse survivor at the hands of abusers who were sadistic (I hate to say they were bdsm folks considering they were abusing kids without conscience - but they were). I know that my roots in bdsm began with my abuse. I know that over time I have managed to find that "sweet spot" that allowed me to transition what use to be triggers to major decompensation to presence and pleasure. That transition process has been thru sharing/story telling over the years which I believe has allowed me to numb out a certain amount of it until I was able to be comfortable enough to actually feel the depth of the feelings. I am a psych nurse by training and I learned to use my experiences in helping others but I will admit it took me awhile to help myself in some of the areas (considering the depth of the "injury").
Thank you for sharing something so deep. I am blown away by how concisely you describing the process you went (are going?) through. It sounds very much like a conscious effort? How much do you think your skills as a psych nurse aided you? I found what you said about "controlling" your storytelling. I have gotten negative feedback from a lot of folks about my cleansing experience, both within the community (we used no safe words), and without (accusing me of engaging in some kind of dangerous "pop" psychology). But I worked carefully ahead of time with the friend who did the cleansing to structure the experience - how the story went so that I didn't go someplace I wasn't "meant" to go. Which makes me think that there is a power in taking control of one's own story, as both a PYL and pyl that one might not find in traditional psychotherapy? (I can't speak well to other modalities of treatment...)

FluteMaster said:
Thankyou, Neon, for the article and for starting this thread.
Thank you for responding, also. :rose:
FluteMaster said:
... I have come late to "story writing", though I have also experienced the process of story telling in therapy following a breakdown.

In both cases, I have had the chance to explore alternative views of the past and the future.

In the past, I have chosen to suppress parts of myself in order to please others, (or rather, in an attempt to please others). However, the BDSM framework has allowed me to write a new script where I can be selfish for myself, and still please others at the same time.

As in a counselling environment where the therapist offers a non judgmental space for us to speak out our fears and hopes, BDSM has allowed me to act out some of those same fears and hopes. Whereas I had previously seen myself as a powerless victim of others, I can now retell that story as co-author, aided by the loving trust I build up with my partner in the journey. Out of the disorder I have inside, I can start to weave a web of order.

So yes...by both my writing, and by my persona, I would say that I am learning to externalise my old fears and scripts, and learning to find a redemption through them.

Anyway...that is as far as I have got so far.
When you speak of the new script where you can be selfish and also please others, are you referring at all to the negotiation skills one gains? I know that for me this is something I have been able to take from BDSM to my professional life. I very much appreciate what you say about redemption. Women in my generation were trained to want to give over control rather than taking, something I always found difficult because it was so not "where I lived." I also loved what you said about creating a - I hope you don't mind my paraphrasing - "loving web of order" - it seems very much like what a mentor of mine describes as "holding the space," a nurturing and very sacred thing, I think. Your post got me to more seriously thinking about what I have gained from Topping - I am the opposite, I think, from ITW in that the sub experiences are much easier for me to describe as they relate to story-telling than are my experiences as a Top, although that might be because only recently have I begun to truly explore and "flex" this part of myself. (more follows on this)

GentleSub_Ivy said:
Hello Neonflux,

I don't have time to read the entire article right now but I wanted to post my answer to the above question. This came up in the Daddy/girl dynamic thread for me also. One "story" I have been living is that I couldn't possibly enjoy the D/g dynamic because of past abuse. It became a script I played over and over in my head. I have recently awakened to how much I am actually attracted to D/g. Because of the support of a special someone I don't feel guilty or disgusted about this anymore. This hasn't changed the original abuse "story" but has helped reframe the way I reacted to this particular aspect of it. So in this way I have changed my own story through BDSM. Does that make sense?
This makes perfect sense - and it actually describes something that the article speaks to - the idea, not of "changing" the past, but rather of "owning it" and understanding it differently. I am so sorry this happened to you and so in awe of your courage in exploring / healing yourself in the way that you describe.

GentleSub_Ivy said:
This is actually one of the attractions for me to BDSM. Unfortunately, I don't know when it will be possible for me to experience the physical side of it. So, the psychological aspects of it are fascinating.
I, for one, look forward to following you on your journey, and hope that you will eventually have the possibility of exploring its physical aspects. :rose:

Shank, Miss Rebecca, Thank you for poking your nose in. I look forward to your share, in whatever ways you elect to contribute... :kiss:

Thank you again, all posters. You have definitely helped me to think about this issue more deeply, particularly the "Topside" of things. I do know that I have always been one to take charge - even as a kid, I was as likely to lead the class in some mischievous prank as I was to assert my thoughts. However, as I got older, it became more and more apparant that exercising power as a woman wasn't "acceptable." Some very difficult feedback at the start of coordinating a national training program that forced people to "stretch" themselves and their beliefs really brought this home to me. I am now glad for this, because it allowed me to "nurture" my "nurturing" side, something I love to bring to Topping, however it also made me reticent to openly and unabashedly exercise power in a professional setting. Beginning with a Dominant/switch women's intensive I took about 8 months ago, and the confidence I first gained there and then through my play, I am learning not only to claim that part of me that exercises power openly, but to enjoy it in a way that, as Flutemaster described is both selfish (albeit always, I hope, with a view to the greater good) and selfless... I have certainly started to remember childhood experiences (like my sister and the bullwhip) that I had forgotten, and also reframe them confidently as just part of "who I am" and to value what those aspects of my personality allow me to do/contribute. :D

:heart: Neon
 
For me i think it all has to do with the ability to trust neon. There may be other things going on below the surface..but i'm not at the point where i can let myself ponder on it yet. Some things just hurt to bad to think about still..but i'm getting there slowly...
 
nh23 said:
For me i think it all has to do with the ability to trust neon. There may be other things going on below the surface..but i'm not at the point where i can let myself ponder on it yet. Some things just hurt to bad to think about still..but i'm getting there slowly...

*hugs*

:rose: Neon
 
neonflux said:
As a PYL/pyl, how has BDSM helped you to reframe your own stories?
There are several ways I could go with your OP, Neon. I could discuss how stories formed my fantasy for the sort of scene protocol I expected when I first started going to ProDommes. I could discuss the importance and power of telling one’s story in sorting out who we are vs. who we want to be. But those require more caffeine and a few more days from work to clear my mind.

So I will tell a small-s story about how my first few sessions with a ProDomme changed my big-s Story about myself.

At the time I was working as a regional (Northern California) sales manager for a Fortune 500 company. I managed a staff of 5 and dealt with high dollar contracts. I was a bit of a power and control freak. My boss was also a power and control freak and he was having trouble finding was to make me compliant – hee hee (that fucker). And he was winning the battle – I could not afford to loose the job and was beginning to bend to his pressure.

I was also finely embracing my interest in BDSM. It was a long and convoluted trip for me and I will spare you all the messy details for now. I had starting seeing a sexworker adverting “prostate massage” services and she had some BDSM experience and I expressed an interest in some of the other toys she had around her “work space” – where she worked my ass over, that is to say. As good as she was at her craft she just was not a power Domme and I was wanting a high powered dominate.

Then I met Ilsa. Ilsa was a high profile ProDomme in San Francisco. She was for real and she scared the hell out of me and she was exactly what I wanted. Ilsa reduced me to tears, literal tears, the first three sessions we had. My sub nature found a home, found a container, found a name, found protocol, and came poring out.

So there I am at work one day - now with the experience of several sessions with Ilsa. Setting at my desk I heard my boss bellow my name summoning me to his office. This was 10 years ago and I can still feel myself starting to slip into sub energy at the sound of his demanding voice. Then something happened – like the sound of “CRACK” I heard myself say in my head “I’m not paying for this – who the fuck does he think he is?”. His false power over me was gone in the instant and our relationship changed forever. To this day I am able to select when, where and with whom I become submissive. I am a new Story because of Ilsa and BDSM.

Is this the sort of story you mean?
 
Shankara20 said:
There are several ways I could go with your OP, Neon. I could discuss how stories formed my fantasy for the sort of scene protocol I expected when I first started going to ProDommes. I could discuss the importance and power of telling one’s story in sorting out who we are vs. who we want to be. But those require more caffeine and a few more days from work to clear my mind.

So I will tell a small-s story about how my first few sessions with a ProDomme changed my big-s Story about myself.

At the time I was working as a regional (Northern California) sales manager for a Fortune 500 company. I managed a staff of 5 and dealt with high dollar contracts. I was a bit of a power and control freak. My boss was also a power and control freak and he was having trouble finding was to make me compliant – hee hee (that fucker). And he was winning the battle – I could not afford to loose the job and was beginning to bend to his pressure.

I was also finely embracing my interest in BDSM. It was a long and convoluted trip for me and I will spare you all the messy details for now. I had starting seeing a sexworker adverting “prostate massage” services and she had some BDSM experience and I expressed an interest in some of the other toys she had around her “work space” – where she worked my ass over, that is to say. As good as she was at her craft she just was not a power Domme and I was wanting a high powered dominate.

Then I met Ilsa. Ilsa was a high profile ProDomme in San Francisco. She was for real and she scared the hell out of me and she was exactly what I wanted. Ilsa reduced me to tears, literal tears, the first three sessions we had. My sub nature found a home, found a container, found a name, found protocol, and came poring out.

So there I am at work one day - now with the experience of several sessions with Ilsa. Setting at my desk I heard my boss bellow my name summoning me to his office. This was 10 years ago and I can still feel myself starting to slip into sub energy at the sound of his demanding voice. Then something happened – like the sound of “CRACK” I heard myself say in my head “I’m not paying for this – who the fuck does he think he is?”. His false power over me was gone in the instant and our relationship changed forever. To this day I am able to select when, where and with whom I become submissive. I am a new Story because of Ilsa and BDSM.

Is this the sort of story you mean?

Thank you, Shank. This is incredibly powerful. :heart:

:goes off to ponder for a few days:

:rose: Neon
 
Kierae said:
Very interesting topic Neon (and not a surprise coming from you :) ). I absolutely believe along these lines. I am a sexual abuse survivor at the hands of abusers who were sadistic (I hate to say they were bdsm folks considering they were abusing kids without conscience - but they were). I know that my roots in bdsm began with my abuse. I know that over time I have managed to find that "sweet spot" that allowed me to transition what use to be triggers to major decompensation to presence and pleasure. That transition process has been thru sharing/story telling over the years which I believe has allowed me to numb out a certain amount of it until I was able to be comfortable enough to actually feel the depth of the feelings. I am a psych nurse by training and I learned to use my experiences in helping others but I will admit it took me awhile to help myself in some of the areas (considering the depth of the "injury").

~kierae :rose:

In regards to being a survivor a "sweet spot" is such an interesting way to put it. It's like a trigger that went off. I honestly don't recall exactly when. For me it has been like a time-release trigger over a period of years. So in regards to the OP we may be constantly reworking our "stories" as we gain more information. It's like if you are researching a story and you keep finding more research that makes the story better than you previously had written. So, you keep the best of what you have written before and add to it the best of what you know now.

Ivy :rose:
 
I hope to experience the physical side too Neon. :rolleyes: My hormones are trying to take over my brain so it might happen sooner than expected. :p

I appreciate everyone sharing their stories. Neon, you sound like you live a very interesting life. I'm a bit envious you know. ;) Me and my damn closet.

Ivy :rose:
 
GentleSub_Ivy said:
In regards to being a survivor a "sweet spot" is such an interesting way to put it. It's like a trigger that went off. I honestly don't recall exactly when. For me it has been like a time-release trigger over a period of years. So in regards to the OP we may be constantly reworking our "stories" as we gain more information. It's like if you are researching a story and you keep finding more research that makes the story better than you previously had written. So, you keep the best of what you have written before and add to it the best of what you know now.

Ivy :rose:
This idea makes so much sense. The research part, the constant rewriting. I also think that as we get older we have more experience, more self-confidence, more skills to bring to that rewriting. :rose:
 
GentleSub_Ivy said:
I hope to experience the physical side too Neon. :rolleyes: My hormones are trying to take over my brain so it might happen sooner than expected. :p

I appreciate everyone sharing their stories. Neon, you sound like you live a very interesting life. I'm a bit envious you know. ;) Me and my damn closet.

Ivy :rose:
*blush* I think I'm blessed to live where I live, even if it is so damn expensive I'll never be able to buy a house! :eek:
 
Interesting read. Let's see...my story.

I developed early and was tortured by ignorant boys who thought it was fun to randomly grope me in the hall, at the bus stop, walking with my lunch tray. I participated in school activities that required jumping and morons were in the front row of the bleachers hollaring until I just quit one day (which sucked because I loved it). I had girls who did not know me call me whore and slut though I was neither. I didn't generally date but a guy who was really attractive and seemed different asked me out. (Little did I know he told all his friends how he was going to bang the shit out of me.) Well, he wasn't. He tried to date rape me to which I literally kicked the shit out of him (never underestimate years of gymnastics).

It was the most liberating moment in my life. I was so turned on and excited by the pain I inflicted, the begging (for me not tell and for me to stop), the fear he had of me in the hallway and my own injuries that it changed me. I found my power and learned what it felt like to be sexually excited. I had know I was different since I was a child but discovered how.

I think I've reenacted that scene a million times.
 
This reminds me of a book I first read a few years ago (gads I have a book for everything... sigh :rolleyes: ):

Radical Ecstacy by Dossie EAston & Janet Hardy

From the back wrap:

For Millennia, seekers have used physical and emotional extremes to achieve transcendence and exaltation. Today, mandy BDSM and leather practitioners are discovering the potential of these practices to reach personal, intrapersonal, and spiritual goals....

I remember reading several passages in the book which discussed using BDSM in a similar manner as some therapists use psycho-drama, which is why the thread reminded me of the book. When my ex and I did marriage counseling about 4 years ago, we saw a (FABULOUS) Jungian counselor who did a lot of body work, bio-feedback and psycho-drama in her practice. I always hated psycho-drama (attempting to rewrite my history with someone I only saw for an hour a few times a month so did not work for little-miss-trust-issues LOL); my ex (mr-fall-in-love/adoration/lust-at-the-mere-mention-of-a-shared-emotional-moment) *loved* psycho-drama and benifitted greatly from it.

I know even with my limited BDSM "experience" (in quotes as I'm not sure it even qualifies LOL), a lot of my old pain has evolved. I still have my "issues" (Wheeeee! ISSUES!!!), but I am a stronger person, in part, because I've had some opportunity to "rewrite" myself with a trusted Friend. I do believe it's similar to the path my old therapist wanted me to walk down; I just took the left fork in the road, instead of the right. (And walk/walked really really *really* slowly. LOL)
 
Shankara20 said:
There are several ways I could go with your OP, Neon. I could discuss how stories formed my fantasy for the sort of scene protocol I expected when I first started going to ProDommes. I could discuss the importance and power of telling one’s story in sorting out who we are vs. who we want to be. But those require more caffeine and a few more days from work to clear my mind.

So I will tell a small-s story about how my first few sessions with a ProDomme changed my big-s Story about myself.

At the time I was working as a regional (Northern California) sales manager for a Fortune 500 company. I managed a staff of 5 and dealt with high dollar contracts. I was a bit of a power and control freak. My boss was also a power and control freak and he was having trouble finding was to make me compliant – hee hee (that fucker). And he was winning the battle – I could not afford to loose the job and was beginning to bend to his pressure.

I was also finely embracing my interest in BDSM. It was a long and convoluted trip for me and I will spare you all the messy details for now. I had starting seeing a sexworker adverting “prostate massage” services and she had some BDSM experience and I expressed an interest in some of the other toys she had around her “work space” – where she worked my ass over, that is to say. As good as she was at her craft she just was not a power Domme and I was wanting a high powered dominate.

Then I met Ilsa. Ilsa was a high profile ProDomme in San Francisco. She was for real and she scared the hell out of me and she was exactly what I wanted. Ilsa reduced me to tears, literal tears, the first three sessions we had. My sub nature found a home, found a container, found a name, found protocol, and came poring out.

So there I am at work one day - now with the experience of several sessions with Ilsa. Setting at my desk I heard my boss bellow my name summoning me to his office. This was 10 years ago and I can still feel myself starting to slip into sub energy at the sound of his demanding voice. Then something happened – like the sound of “CRACK” I heard myself say in my head “I’m not paying for this – who the fuck does he think he is?”. His false power over me was gone in the instant and our relationship changed forever. To this day I am able to select when, where and with whom I become submissive. I am a new Story because of Ilsa and BDSM.

Is this the sort of story you mean?

Coming back to this after several very intense days with my boss, it really hit me how the power play in BDSM has made it so much easire for me to understand and work within power constructs in everyday life. I remember a couple of weeks back someone started a thread (that went ignored, perhaps because of the way that the OP phrased the query) asking if society trains us to be switches. I don't believe that American society does that at all - it encourages all of us to be wanna-be-Doms because it misinterprets submission as weakness. Would you say that your experiences with submission also enabled to "see" the falsity of your boss' exercise of power?

My current supervisor at the health department is also a friend (20 years). She gets very uptight whenever we have a big grant due, particularly if it's the first within a new granting cycle and so competitive. She can become quite nasty verbally during these times. Because of our personal relationship, and my naturally Toppy self which hates to be treated as a "subordinate," I sometimes find myself biting back. This often doesn't help matters. This year, it's been different. Somehow, I see the emotional need in her, and instead of striking back, I have been bending - I think that this is something I've taken from my experiences as a bottom - I no longer view it as weakness but as a source of strength. In this case, I lost nothing of myself, and the experience, overall, has been a great deal more pleasant.

:rose: Neon
 
LadyAria said:
Interesting read. Let's see...my story.

I developed early and was tortured by ignorant boys who thought it was fun to randomly grope me in the hall, at the bus stop, walking with my lunch tray. I participated in school activities that required jumping and morons were in the front row of the bleachers hollaring until I just quit one day (which sucked because I loved it). I had girls who did not know me call me whore and slut though I was neither. I didn't generally date but a guy who was really attractive and seemed different asked me out. (Little did I know he told all his friends how he was going to bang the shit out of me.) Well, he wasn't. He tried to date rape me to which I literally kicked the shit out of him (never underestimate years of gymnastics).

It was the most liberating moment in my life. I was so turned on and excited by the pain I inflicted, the begging (for me not tell and for me to stop), the fear he had of me in the hallway and my own injuries that it changed me. I found my power and learned what it felt like to be sexually excited. I had know I was different since I was a child but discovered how.

I think I've reenacted that scene a million times.
Lady Aria, thank you so much for your contribution. Your story is all the more remarkable because of how old you were when it happened. I was developed large breasts when very young, so understand the taunts, rumors, etc. (My response, unfortunately, was to try to hide my breasts and to ignore my tormentors.) It's a wonderful image - seeing that awful boy cowed and cowardly when you so unexpectedly turned the tables on him! I think that you have just become my new...

xena.jpg


:catroar: Neon
 
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CutieMouse said:
This reminds me of a book I first read a few years ago (gads I have a book for everything... sigh :rolleyes: ):

Radical Ecstacy by Dossie EAston & Janet Hardy

From the back wrap:

For Millennia, seekers have used physical and emotional extremes to achieve transcendence and exaltation. Today, mandy BDSM and leather practitioners are discovering the potential of these practices to reach personal, intrapersonal, and spiritual goals....

I remember reading several passages in the book which discussed using BDSM in a similar manner as some therapists use psycho-drama, which is why the thread reminded me of the book. When my ex and I did marriage counseling about 4 years ago, we saw a (FABULOUS) Jungian counselor who did a lot of body work, bio-feedback and psycho-drama in her practice. I always hated psycho-drama (attempting to rewrite my history with someone I only saw for an hour a few times a month so did not work for little-miss-trust-issues LOL); my ex (mr-fall-in-love/adoration/lust-at-the-mere-mention-of-a-shared-emotional-moment) *loved* psycho-drama and benifitted greatly from it.

I know even with my limited BDSM "experience" (in quotes as I'm not sure it even qualifies LOL), a lot of my old pain has evolved. I still have my "issues" (Wheeeee! ISSUES!!!), but I am a stronger person, in part, because I've had some opportunity to "rewrite" myself with a trusted Friend. I do believe it's similar to the path my old therapist wanted me to walk down; I just took the left fork in the road, instead of the right. (And walk/walked really really *really* slowly. LOL)

CutieMouse,

I really liked the New Topping Book - I think that "Radical Ecstacy" is going to have to be my next after the one that Fury chooses tomorrow (I'm currently finishing up two of Anne Carson's epic poems). It's interesting what you say about doing something in BDSM that you didn't enjoy doing in therapy. Can you put your finger on the difference? Why was that "fork in the road" so much more appealing?

:rose: Neon

P.S., Librarians rock! I love the title of the book that you're reading :nana:
 
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