Some comments about comments

[Auden James]

Pop up some numbers.

As far as I can tell, comments as well as views and favorites are dropping; and the latter even although there seems to be the same trend as on the English site making it the preferred method to give feedback of any kind. The German translations on the new story pages are adequate. The drop off, especially comment-wise, is evident since the queue has been implemented. I don't know of any blocks or bans affecting LIT's accessibility in Germany.

Just take a look at LIT's own top list for the most read German stories; you will find hardly anything from the last few years there in the "All time" list, and the difference in views to the "Last 12 months" list is quite impressive.

Or take some specific authors who published before and after the queueing got going, e. g., compare some of swriter's and MixedPickles' or Stehsegler's most successful stories over the years:[tr][td]Author[/td][td]Title[/td][td]Date[/td][td]

Score​

[/td][td]

Views​

[/td][td]

Comments​

[/td][td]

Favorites​

[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]swriter[/td][td]Die Familiensauna[/td][td]02/28/13[/td][td]

4,51​

[/td][td]

425,122​

[/td][td]

32​

[/td][td]

85​

[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]swriter[/td][td]Verbotene Früchte[/td][td]12/03/20[/td][td]

4,61​

[/td][td]

85,378​

[/td][td]

15​

[/td][td]

26​

[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Stehsegler[/td][td]Es begann im Bus[/td][td]06/30/14[/td][td]

4,61​

[/td][td]

473,723​

[/td][td]

28​

[/td][td]

96​

[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]MixedPickles[/td][td]Gespräche 01: Ertappt[/td][td]08/26/15[/td][td]

4,67​

[/td][td]

425,467​

[/td][td]

9​

[/td][td]

37​

[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]MixedPickles[/td][td]Jans Schwiegermutter 01[/td][td]02/04/21[/td][td]

4,72​

[/td][td]

74,326​

[/td][td]

2​

[/td][td]

11​

[/td][/tr]

Feel free to do a more thorough research! This small sample serves only the purpose of illustrating the greater point which is evident to all the German users who were already active before the queue got implemented here.

 

[RejectReality]

I couldn't possible establish a drop in comments. Even if it looked like I could, there's way to much noise in the systems--to many things that can influence readers to comment or not comment.

If I look at I/T stories alone, what I see it that for the last five years, my sibcest stories get a lot more comments then my mom/son stories. This is true in almost every case, and the differences are often a factor of three; a mom/son story might get 7-8 comments and a sibcest story will get 21-24 comments.

If it's significant, you should be able to.

It's easy enough to look at LW and see that the comments have dropped off significantly since the queue was introduced. Without the immediate triggers and immediate gratification of responding to them, a segment of the readership has slowed or stopped commenting, and it's had a discernable impact.

You can also look through and see that the increase in favorites through the late '00s and early teens didn't have much of an impact on the number of comments in Incest or LW, compared to most other categories. The favorites kept rising there, but the comments kept coming. In most other categories, the number of favorites and comments flipped over the course of five years or so.

If noise can mask it, then it's little more than noise itself.

 

[NotWise]

IIf noise can mask it, then it's little more than noise itself.

Noise may not just mask it. It could create trends that aren't really there. If, a couple years ago, I switched from writing sibcest stories to writing mom/son stories, then I could document a sudden plunge in comments.

That plunge could be completely unique to me, but I might argue about its sweeping importance until I'm red in the face.

 

[RejectReality]

Just take a look at LIT's own top list for the most read German stories; you will find hardly anything from the last few years there in the "All time" list, and the difference in views to the "Last 12 months" list is quite impressive.

The most read stories on the English side are much the same. I see a few '11 and a '13 in a quick scan.

The views have undoubtedly declined, but I honestly think that's a matter of implementing new bot filters that are removing some garbage that used to get through, because that changed rapidly ( practically overnight ) a few years ago, and has remained fairly consistent since. It's down about 30-40% from where it was... Whenever that was. Maybe '14 or '15? That feels about right.

A small sample on comments and favorites, but looking through them, they at least make a reasonable argument for further research. Number of pages ( 3 vs. 7 for swriter ) could have an impact, but I don't know how German readers react to length or the assorted couplings in order to determine whether those are mitigating or exacerbating factors. It's entirely possible that Father/Daughter does far better than Mother/Son on the German side, where it's a flip on the English side. No clue.

MixedPickles provides an interesting possibility by having ( what I assume is ) an identical illustrated incest story in both German and English. That provides a little context on comparing the two sides. The difference between his early work in incest and post-queue group sex is less conclusive if the categories have the same trend lines as the English side.

It's at least data that can be seen in black and white, and other German authors/readers could use as a basis to provide more or research themselves. Most of us outside that community would be simply guessing, unless the trends run exactly the same as they do on the English side.

 

[LAHomedog]

RVC stands for Read, Vote, Comment. It's a culture of authors reading the work of other authors, voting, and commenting. Often, upon getting an RVC, you would seek out something from that author to return the favor. In contests, it would be their contest offerings.

Thank you. I don't know from any of that. I like to write my stories and I post them. Hopefully people will read them and like 'em. That's all.

 

[RejectReality]

Noise may not just mask it. It could create trends that aren't really there. If, a couple years ago, I switched from writing sibcest stories to writing mom/son stories, then I could document a sudden plunge in comments.

That plunge could be completely unique to me, but I might argue about its sweeping importance until I'm red in the face.

You're acting as if it's impossible to tell apples from oranges.

Silence is Goldwyn. 03/21. Non-contest. 2 pages. Mature. From the younger guy's perspective. Former teacher and virgin. 4.66 on 1.1k votes, 40.3k views, 20 comments, 82 Favs.

Hooters. 07/18. Non-contest. 3 pages. Mature. From the younger guy's perspective. More mature and experienced protagonist. 4.62 on 912 votes, 41.6k views, 13 comments, 49 favs.

There are still variables there, but they have enough in common to make them a reasonable comparison. Hit enough data points like that, and it's easy enough to build a dataset. You can also see by the views and vote totals that the newer story was more popular. So, you adjust for that, and guess what? The lower number of comments and favorites on the older story make sense. So, it's a wash rather than "evidence" that comments and favorites are increasing.

Let's throw in a couple more.

Golden Rolls. 05/20. Contest. <1 page. Mature. From the older man's perspective. Mutual masturbation only. 4.59 on 577 votes, 26.1k views, 12 comments, 37 favorites.

A Belated Gift. 01/20. Non-contest. 2 pages. Mature. From the older man's perspective. Helping out young neighbor, full on sex. 4.67 on 975 votes, 36.9k views, 13 comments, 58 favorites.

Old Man Winter. 12/19. Non-contest. 2 pages. Mature. From the older man's perspective. Helping out a traveler, full on sex. 4.63 on 785 votes, 33.1k views, 12 comments, 47 favorites.

Hung by the Chimney. 12/19. Contest. 2 pages. Mature. From the older woman's perspective. A little shy. 4.71 on 927 votes, 88.9k views, 21 comments, 107 favorites.

Quick N' Dirty Fix. 09/19. Non-contest. 2 pages. Mature. From the older woman's perspective. A little shy. co-worker. 4.53 on 474 votes, 124.7k views, 4 comments, 36 favorites.

Her Own Skin 07/18. Contest. 3 Pages. Mature. From the older woman's perspective. A little shy. Son's friend. 4.72 on 861 votes, 90k views, 10 comments, 73 favorites.

Lots of variables there, but they're all age-difference stories in the mature category, and all less than 3 Lit pages, so they still have a lot of commonality. Pre and post ( assuming I'm remembering it happening in '19 correctly ) queue. When added as additional data points to the very similar stories in the original comparison, as you account for the differences, it shows one trend: Stability. Some stories do better. Some do worse. The favorites and comments reflect that on either side of the barrier.

If I go through Incest, Group, and EC, the trend is the same. I've been basically unaffected by the comment queue.

So, I'm one data point. Somebody else with non LW stuff ( since it's more or less agreed that LW has been affected ) feel like throwing out their statistics in a similar manner? Feel free to elaborate on perspective, couplings, sex content, etc. as much as you want to demonstrate variables.

Enough people providing a sampling of data with variables should demonstrate a pattern of falling comment counts, if it exists. If you think you see it in what I just presented, feel free to elaborate.

 

[NotWise]

I had to pull up a spreadsheet and list your numbers. You have no trend that's significant to me.

I don't remember exactly when they started reviewing comments, but in your examples, the comment numbers after September, 2019 are all higher than they are on the two stories before or during September, 2019.

All in all, not much to argue about.

 

[KeithD]

This is all getting to seem like people are more interested in getting strokes for whatever reason than in writing and sharing stories.

 

[NotWise]

This is all getting to seem like people are more interested in getting strokes for whatever reason than in writing and sharing stories.

Yes, it does.

 

[gordo12]

This is all getting to seem like people are more interested in getting strokes for whatever reason than in writing and sharing stories.

It's valid to be concerned about the direction a website is going in and the results. We don't all have the outlet you do.

 

[KeithD]

The Web site is loose sieve in every stat category here. Yes, I think the way some of you hang on stats and how your stories are comparing with others and how many strokes you're getting is ridiculous. I have as much a right to post my opinion as any of the rest of you do. So, I only agree it's valid in that writing not being the primary reason some of you are playing here. You want to be loved more than others are--and to have the stats to "prove" it.

 

[RejectReality]

I had to pull up a spreadsheet and list your numbers. You have no trend that's significant to me.

I don't remember exactly when they started reviewing comments, but in your examples, the comment numbers after September, 2019 are all higher than they are on the two stories before or during September, 2019.

All in all, not much to argue about.

And that's my conclusion. It hasn't affected me in any category I write in with enough regularity to compare the results.

LC keeps throwing out the claim that the comments are declining, the spam queue is willy-nilly blocking regular commenters, and the website is just fiddling while Rome burns, but isn't providing a single iota of data to demonstrate it. The one example he provided I was able to pull up a comparison for that doesn't tell the same story he's spinning. The numbers he is calling garbage on a new story aren't that far off from one that has accumulated over 10k votes since I took the data snap I provided.

I would say that story has had a decent post-contest life. ( to put it mildly... Also noting that I believe it is fully deserving of the honors it has obtained. )

All somebody has to do is put forth a string of data like I have that shows comments swirling down the drain, and there's an opposing data point that nullifies mine.

Again, excluding LW since it's fairly obvious it's happening there. Once threaded comments get implemented, that might reverse the trend there, as being able to directly reply to a comment regardless of when it posted might relight the spark for that segment of the readership that has slowed down or stopped commenting due to the delay in the queue.

 

[ElectricBlue]

I had to pull up a spreadsheet and list your numbers. You have no trend that's significant to me.

I don't remember exactly when they started reviewing comments, but in your examples, the comment numbers after September, 2019 are all higher than they are on the two stories before or during September, 2019.

All in all, not much to argue about.

I'd have said earlier than two years ago - end '18, early '19 maybe; but generally speaking I'm with you here - we've got a couple of conspiracy theories but not much else by way of evidence that comments have plummeted (setting LW aside, and I'll defer to Gordo for that one). But then, it's not the first time that's happened, people thinking their belief system is the same as science.

 

[gordo12]

I'd have said earlier than two years ago - end '18, early '19 maybe; but generally speaking I'm with you here - we've got a couple of conspiracy theories but not much else by way of evidence that comments have plummeted (setting LW aside, and I'll defer to Gordo for that one). But then, it's not the first time that's happened, people thinking their belief system is the same as science.

Ohhh, that was smoooooth.

When you see a change and predict the outcome, then watch it come to pass, yeah, it's hard to label it a belief instead of a fact. At least it's a data point of 1. At the same time, we saw a rapid growth in new readers and stories because of Covid so that can screen the actual outcome of the changes.

Keith isn't wrong when he says the stats are a sieve.

There are only two people on this site that can provide the proper stats, and I'm sure we all know how far that will go

 

[NotWise]

There are only two people on this site that can provide the proper stats, and I'm sure we all know how far that will go

So this is how you want them to allocate their time? LOL

Edited to add: Yesterday Laurel cleared more than 200 stories. You can whine on, but I doubt many people are listening.

 

[CyranoJ]

I had to pull up a spreadsheet and list your numbers. You have no trend that's significant to me.

I don't remember exactly when they started reviewing comments, but in your examples, the comment numbers after September, 2019 are all higher than they are on the two stories before or during September, 2019.

All in all, not much to argue about.

But it's a conspiracy! A conspiracy, I tells ya!

All it ever is with this guy, honestly.

 

[PennameWombat]

Well, why not chime in.

I've only been here since Oct, 2018. My top four most commented stories are:
8 comments, First Time, Summer Lovin 2020 entry
7 comments, Fetish, Jan, 2019
6 comments, SF&F, Winter Holidays 2019 entry
5 comments, EC, Oct., 2018 (my second posted story)

Exactly a quarter of my 36 published stories have zero comments. And one story has a single comment, "I liked this and can't believe no one else has commented!"

I have no stories in LW nor I/T.

So this has always been my comment experience, I worked out early that 'writing for comments' wasn't a useful thing to do, regardless of why. I had no experience of the 'old days.' I also have only ever received fewer than five private feedback directly and none ever stated 'tried to comment, failed.'

And, I've only ever deleted a single comment. It was incredibly abusive. The story that was made on still has one other comment that was only abusive It's not like I'm just keeping the compliments as one poster suggested authors might be doing.

My most viewed story isn't quite to 35,000 views, it's my Nude Day 2021 Anal story (it spent a good chunk of its first month at number 1 or 2 on the 30 Day Anal toplist, which couldn't have hurt its views). Only one other story above 30,000 views (the Summer Lovin 2020 entry mentioned above.)

BTW, I don't obsess over my stats. But, they exist and I admit I'm a CompSci, numbers guy. So I have them. But, I write what I like to write, which is why so much of my stuff is in SF&F, NonHuman and the like.

 

[Auden James]

Pre and post ( assuming I'm remembering it happening in '19 correctly ) queue.

Well, as the saying goes:

Never ASSUME, because when you ASSUME, you make an ASS of U and ME.

Your assumption is wrong. The spam flood that ostensibly triggered the queueing started in May 2018; the review process for comments was implemented a few months later that year, somewhere around September (alas, I also don't have the exact date written down). I know this because I contacted Laurel via PM back then as the German board had become virtually unusable due to the spam flood.

Hence, your data set above is pretty much meaningless because all your data points fall right into the time span of either the spam flood or the already implemented queueing, which both, as is the hypothesis (and experience of quite a few users, at least on the German site), would have negatively affected comment frequency.

Thus it would seem more reasonable to crawl data pre-May and post-September 2018 to measure the effect of the queueing on comments, etc.

 

[RejectReality]

Well, as the saying goes:
Your assumption is wrong. The spam flood that ostensibly triggered the queueing started in May 2018; the review process for comments was implemented a few months later that year, somewhere around September (alas, I also don't have the exact date written down). I know this because I contacted Laurel via PM back then as the German board had become virtually unusable due to the spam flood.

Hence, your data set above is pretty much meaningless because all your data points fall right into the time span of either the spam flood or the already implemented queueing, which both, as is the hypothesis (and experience of quite a few users, at least on the German site), would have negatively affected comment frequency.

Thus it would seem more reasonable to crawl data pre-May and post-September 2018 to measure the effect of the queueing on comments, etc.

Easy enough. Here's the next one in history. ( Excluding a couple of mediocre performing two-story anthologies, which had 7 and 8 comments on 400 and 600 votes after the queue. Just too different from everything else to be real comparisons. )

Fixed Wright Up. 07/17. Mature. Contest. Older woman's perspective, a little shy. 3 Lit pages. 4.66 on 1k votes, 72.2k views, 11 comments, 73 favorites.

Same tune. For good measure, here's group.

Batter Up. 07/17. Group. MMMMMMF female perspective. Revenge on cheating BF. 2 Lit pages. 4.63 on 490 votes. 70.9k views, 8 comments. 64 favorites.

Quite Neighborly. 09/17. Group. MMFF. female neighbor's perspective with neighbor couple + younger guy. 3 Lit pages. 4.72 on 705 votes. 89.1k views. 9 comments. 82 favorites.

Wingman. 12/19. Group. MMF. female perspective. Hookup threesome w. pilots. 2 Lit pages. 4.74 on 274 votes. 35.3k views. 6 comments. 53 favorites.

You Serious? 02/21 Group. MFF. Boyfriend's perspective, threesome with GF's BFF. 3 Lit pages. 4.73 on 1.2k votes. 77.5k views. 17 comments. 184 favorites.

Play it again, Sam. The couplings/perspective are more varied, but they're all in that 2-3 Lit page range, and all hitting about the same on comments either side of the fold, once you consider how well You Serious? did and how hard Wingman flopped. LOL

 

[Auden James]

@ RejectReality

Interesting enough, though it looks a little like cherry picking, at least to my mind, if you exclude some stories post-queue just because they incidentally underperformed with too few comments. It would be interesting to see a complete analysis of all your output before and after the queueing to see if your hunch that your stories have been unaffected by it holds true or may be invalidated.

On the other hand it raises the question why, apparently, some authors seem to see a reduction in comment frequency while others seem unable to detect any difference. Is that perhaps because the former wrote more controversial content that lends itself to debate or whatever stifled by the queueing? Or is there perhaps a fundamental difference between the English-speaking and the German-speaking readership and how they react to their comments being "moderated?"

 

[RejectReality]

Looking at MixedPickles Illustrated Incest story, you have the original German version released on 11/19. 4.73 on 1071 votes, with 254k views, 14 comments, 30 favorites.

The English version released on 07/21. 4.68 on 818 votes, with 69.6k views, 11 comments, 25 favorites.

Both are after the queue, and the English version has a lot more competition from the likes of SilkStockingLover. MixedPickles has quite a few illustrated stories in German, and high rankings on the toplist for that category.

I don't know that it says anything in and of itself, but it's a plot on the graph.

 

[RejectReality]

Interesting enough, though it looks a little like cherry picking, at least to my mind, if you exclude some stories post-queue just because they incidentally underperformed with too few comments. It would be interesting to see a complete analysis of all your output before and after the queueing to see if your hunch that your stories have been unaffected by it holds true or may be invalidated.

On the other hand it raises the question why, apparently, some authors seem to see a reduction in comment frequency while others seem unable to detect any difference. Is that perhaps because the former wrote more controversial content that lends itself to debate or whatever stifled by the queueing?

I excluded them because they're both two story anthologies. That's a vastly different format than all the other single story submissions. Really, when you adjust for the votes/views, the lower number of comments is in line with everything else — especially other underperformers like Quick 'N Dirty Fix. I just don't think they really fit as a proper comparison. I included the vote and comment totals for exactly that reason, as an asterisk to their exclusion.

The thing is, very few people ( outside of LW ) are reporting any drop in comment frequency. The Loving Wives comment boards are a whole different animal where conversational commentary was the norm. It was more or less inevitable that delaying the posting of comments was going to affect that, and it has.

As I said earlier, I think that the ( eventual... I doubt it's happening any time soon ) implementation of threaded comments might reverse that trend, or at least alleviate it. Being able to target a response to a specific comment ( or commenter ) might just relight the spark in some people who have slowed down or stopped due to losing the immediate gratification that was present before the queue.

 

[Auden James]

Looking at MixedPickles Illustrated Incest story . . . .

There are in total 20 illustrated stories on the German site. That is 20 illustrated stories in more than 20 years! This category is pretty much an outlier in and of itself regarding the German readership.

What is interesting though about the comparison of the German and English version of said illustrated story are the evidently different ratios between views and comments and favorites. While there is one comment for every 18k views on the German site, there is one comment for every 6k views on the English site. So the English-speaking readership seems to be thrice as likely to comment in comparison the German-speaking one in this case (post-queue!). I don't know if that difference holds as a generalization, but it would be interesting to find out, or would do you think?

 

[RejectReality]

There are in total 20 illustrated stories on the German site. That is 20 illustrated stories in more than 20 years! This category is pretty much an outlier in and of itself regarding the German readership.

What is interesting though about the comparison of the German and English version of said illustrated story are the evidently different ratios between views and comments and favorites. While there is one comment for every 18k views on the German site, there is one comment for every 6k views on the English site. So the English-speaking readership seems to be thrice as likely to comment in comparison the German-speaking one in this case (post-queue!). I don't know if that difference holds as a generalization, but it would be interesting to find out, or would do you think?

You have to consider a year and a half worth of growing time... Though that's probably not a huge amount, considering how front-loaded most submissions are. The correlation between the favorite numbers and the comment numbers is what keeps me from saying it means much. If that favorite number was higher on the German version, I think it would lean a lot more toward the German side suffering in the comment department.

 

[gordo12]

So this is how you want them to allocate their time? LOL

Edited to add: Yesterday Laurel cleared more than 200 stories. You can whine on, but I doubt many people are listening.

I resent the use of whining in a discussion. That wasn't called for and I hope you can do better than that.

My point is every business needs to know where its clients are coming from. What they're doing in the store or website. What attracts them and what drives them away. What their buying preference is. Anybody not doing that is doomed to failure.

Why do you think tracking your data as you move around the web has become such big business?

I would hope L&M would be on top of things like that after 20+ years. They'll have the stats we're all talking about. Revealing them is a whole other issue around here.