Requesting some advice

[BelleCanzuto]

Last night I suddenly had an idea for a winter holiday story, but when I was "writing" it in my head* I kept thinking as a first person narrator telling the story to a specific person. As in "I watched you" vs "I watched him".

I know the use of the second person can get kind of off putting, and I'm not sure if what I was thinking counts as 'using the second person' or not. So, I wrote up couple hundred words of the opening, in two different versions, and I'd really like feedback on which one reads better.

Also - what do you all think the reception would be for a holiday story with a sort of surprise sad ending?

Here are the two versions
A:
I watch you reach over to turn off the car’s radio. The weather is frightful, the snow falling fast and heavy on the roof as we drive out to the cabin. I know you’re worried, I see the whites of your knuckles as you grip the steering wheel. I’m quiet, trusting that you remember how to drive in conditions like these.

We’d decided on going to the cabin, when all the flights got cancelled and we realized that neither your sister, nor my mom would be able to join us. Rattling around a house that suddenly seemed too big, we’d thought of the cabin. On the back side of the lake, near where the state carved out the park, in the area not even the summertime tourists go. Our secret hideaway. The perfect place.

You glance over at me, trying to smile as the useless windshield wipers clack. I smile back, wanting to touch you, to rest my hand on your knee like we so often do when you drive. But you’re tense, and I understand. The car slides a little, shimmying on a slick spot as you round the last curve before the access road.

B:
I watch him reach over to turn off the car’s radio. The weather is frightful, the snow falling fast and heavy on the roof as we drive out to the cabin. I know he’s worried, I see the whites of his knuckles as he grips the steering wheel. I’m quiet, trusting that he remember how to drive in conditions like these.

We’d decided on going to the cabin, when all the flights got cancelled and we realized that neither his sister, nor my mom would be able to join us. Rattling around a house that suddenly seemed too big, we’d thought of the cabin. On the back side of the lake, near where the state carved out the park, in the area not even the summertime tourists go. Our secret hideaway. The perfect place.

He glances over at me, trying to smile as the useless windshield wipers clack. I smile back, wanting to touch him, to rest my hand on his knee like I so often do when he drives. But he’s tense, and I understand. The car slides a little, shimmying on a slick spot as he rounds the last curve before the access road.

(* also, not for nuthin' but I need one of you techno wizard folk to invent a contraption that I can put on my head {my cranium, you pervs} when I'm getting ready for bed, that automatically transcribes these wonderful 'thought' drafts of stories that I come up with when I'm trying to sleep. I 'wrote' several thousand words of this holiday story last night (and a couple of nights ago, a good chunk of a Halloween story for next year). I lay there, thinking it out just like dictation, and somehow the tone and the verbiage seems great, then I go to sleep and trying to remember exactly what I thought the next day is almost impossible. So, get right on that, won't ya?)

Thanks for any comment or feedback!

 

[MillieDynamite]

Um, I wouldn't read very far, but I hate second-person narration.

 

[TarnishedPenny]

TBH, second-person is really tricky to pull off. You might have the skill to make it work, but my own efforts have been flops. Good luck, however you play things.

 

[BelleCanzuto]

Um, I wouldn't read very far, but I hate second-person narration.

TBH, second-person is really tricky to pull off.

Yeah, this is exactly what I was thinking about (worried is a little to strong a word). I hardly ever even 'think' a story using second person, but there was something about how it came to my mind that seemed more intimate.
But it would only actually be intimate if the reader enjoyed it enough to keep reading it.

 

[Voboy]

Um, I wouldn't read very far

Same, if you're looking for data points.

I'd nope out of that rapidly. But I'm not everyone. Maybe in "Letters and Transcripts," so that you'll attract people expecting that sort of thing?

 

[KeithD]

This isn't second person. It's first person. I, I, I. I . . . and some third person.

I, we, he, even "you" from the perspective of "I." None of the examples are second person.

 

[BelleCanzuto]

This isn't second person. It's first person. I, I, I. I . . . and some third person.

I, we, he, even "you" from the perspective of "I." None of the examples are second person.

Ok, thanks. From a technical aspect, I'd also wondered (as I noted) if it counted as second person narration.

Practically speaking, it may not matter if the readers' reactions are the same.

 

[Bamagan]

Speaking personally, I don't like reading that kind of story any more than I like reading actual second-person tales. It feels like forced intimacy, not dissimilar to having someone lean too far into my personal bubble.

 

[MillieDynamite]

Second person tells the reader what they are doing. You move to the corner and lift the sheet off the body. My god, it's your dead wife.

 

[alohadave]

Second person tells the reader what they are doing. You move to the corner and lift the sheet off the body. My god, it's your dead wife.

The only place that I've read 2nd person that actually worked was the old Choose Your Own Adventure books, and that was a gimmick format on its own.

 

[ElectricBlue]

Ok, thanks. From a technical aspect, I'd also wondered (as I noted) if it counted as second person narration.

Practically speaking, it may not matter if the readers' reactions are the same.

The first sample I'd call second person narration. I'd be gone very quickly, because no, I'm not doing any of those things.

The second sample is present tense, which I can cope with but would prefer not to (despite @MediocreAuthor trying to convince me otherwise).

What's wrong with good old, plain old past tense? Works equally well in first and third person, and solves most writing dilemmas.

 

[BelleCanzuto]

What's wrong with good old, plain old past tense?

There's nothing wrong with it, and most of my stories are in past tense. And I am aware that both samples are in present tense. But that's not what I'm asking about.

 

[SimonDoom]

KeithD is correct. Sample one is not second person POV. The reason you know is that the story is being told from the "I" point of view, even though it addresses a "you" rather than referring to a "him." That's the thing that determines POV. It's still first person. So this is NOT NOT NOT second person POV.

Second Person POV would be:

You watch him reach over to turn off the car’s radio. The weather is frightful, the snow falling fast and heavy on the roof as he drives out to the cabin. You know he's worried, you see the whites of his knuckles as he grips the steering wheel. You're quiet, trusting that he remembers how to drive in conditions like these.

In the revised sample I gave, you can tell it is second person POV because the narrative is from the POV of "you" rather than "I" or "him." This is the key.

As between your two different versions of first-person POV, I think it's your choice. Sample 1 is more unusual, and it might put some people off, but it might work just fine with this particular story. Personally, I'd say go for it.

 

[MediocreAuthor]

What's wrong with good old, plain old past tense? Works equally well in first and third person, and solves most writing dilemmas.

What's wrong with pizza? Nothing. What's wrong with hamburgers? Nothing.

I can eat both, damn it! (With a side of diacritics)

 

[Smuttyandfun]

Yeah, this is exactly what I was thinking about (worried is a little to strong a word). I hardly ever even 'think' a story using second person, but there was something about how it came to my mind that seemed more intimate.
But it would only actually be intimate if the reader enjoyed it enough to keep reading it.

I'll probably get shot for saying it, but I really like version A. The way you've written it, I feel like I'm right there with them. Sounds like the start of good story, too. Now I'm looking forward to reading it.

And if anyone ever does invent one of those things that can capture a story in your head, I'd like one too, please. Then maybe I can finally get some sleep and stop writing in my head all night!

 

[SimonDoom]

I'll probably get shot for saying it, but I really like version A. The way you've written it, I feel like I'm right there with them. Sounds like the start of good story, too. Now I'm looking forward to reading it.

And if anyone ever does invent one of those things that can capture a story in your head, I'd like one too, please. Then maybe I can finally get some sleep and stop writing in my head all night!

No shooting from me. I wouldn't want to read that POV style for an entire novel, but it could work for the right short story. I think it's worth trying.

 

[StillStunned]

I did a "me and you" style narration in one of my stories (Love at First Sight). From the comments, it's effective but disturbing. It can be very intimate, but perhaps a little too intimate.

I'm not sure I'd use it again, for a more "romantic" story. But then again, I thought I'd never do first-person present-tense either, and now I'm 2500 words into one of those just because I started thinking about it.

 

[ElectricBlue]

KeithD is correct. Sample one is not second person POV. The reason you know is that the story is being told from the "I" point of view, even though it addresses a "you" rather than referring to a "him." That's the thing that determines POV. It's still first person. So this is NOT NOT NOT second person POV.

You're right. My original (wrong) reading of sample one as second person was down to its slightly creepy tone, I think. It's as if the narrator was burrowing into my head like some kind of weird parasite. Disconcerting, to say the least - where have all the narrator's own thoughts gone? There's a sense of unease, which might be what the OP is going for.

 

[Rustyoznail]

You're right. My original (wrong) reading of sample one as second person was down to its slightly creepy tone, I think. It's as if the narrator was burrowing into my head like some kind of weird parasite. Disconcerting, to say the least - where have all the narrator's own thoughts gone? There's a sense of unease, which might be what the OP is going for.

Well, that is Belle's wheelhouse...

Personally, I prefer A, even though I doubt I'd write like that. I can see it being effective for a short story - with the sad twist.

As for the idea download machine - if you find one, let me know. My next year's Halloween idea refuses to leave me alone, so I'm madly typing notes and saving research before the story fades. It'd be nice just to zap the concept out.

 

[HectorBidon]

The technique used in your version A might more precisely be called using a second-person deuteragonist. The deuteragonist is the second most important character in the story (after the protagonist).

The story Pedernales Rising by EveC was originally written with a second-person deuteragonist. Then she switched to third person for the second chapter (like your version B). There are discussions of this issue here and here (although many of the comments don't address the deuteragonist aspect at all, but only belabor the point that second person was not used for the protagonist). EveC has since modified the first chapter to refer to the deuteragonist in the third person, so you now have to imagine what it was like originally.

To me, the use of the second-person deuteragonist makes it seem as if you are writing a letter rather than telling a story (as Voboy mentioned). It sets up in my mind the idea that there is a current you (the writer of the letter) and a current him (to whom you are writing), both of whom have already been through the events you are describing. It would be appropriate in a letter for current you to tell current him things he might not have been aware of at the time. "I could tell you were worried. I wanted to touch you." But it would be a bit weird for current you to recount things that happened the way you would in a story. "You took the turn too fast. We skidded into a snowbank. The motor died. You couldn't get it started again." Yeah. He was there. He knows that. Why are you rubbing it in?

So, I guess my point is, in your version B you're telling a story to the reader. In your version A you're having a private conversation with your deuteragonist, which you're letting the reader overhear. Both can work, but they have different reader expectations.

 

[jsmiam]

…but I need one of you techno wizard folk to invent a contraption that I can put on my head…

You are relieved when Jsmiam points out something already exists, albeit with a few imperfections.

So you set up your phone to use voice memos. You read the screen prompts, then go to duckduckgo instead of google because it does not spy on you, for tips specific to your phone. You add it to your splash screen, or perhaps even as one of your back tap shortcuts, so you can get to it in an instant.

Then, whenver a thought strikes you, you can whisper softly into your phone, knowing your idea will be recorded and available for you tomorrow.

You also realize, “this would be embarrassing if someone else heard this,” so you make sure your phone is password protected. But a lot of the things you and your online friends at Literotica would be embarrassing.

 

[ronde]

Last night I suddenly had an idea for a winter holiday story, but when I was "writing" it in my head* I kept thinking as a first person narrator telling the story to a specific person. As in "I watched you" vs "I watched him".

I know the use of the second person can get kind of off putting, and I'm not sure if what I was thinking counts as 'using the second person' or not. So, I wrote up couple hundred words of the opening, in two different versions, and I'd really like feedback on which one reads better.

While as others have pointed out, this isn't true second person POV, the use of the word "you" will be off-putting to many readers because it's not believable. How could the narrator possibly know how I feel, what I'm thinking of doing, or why I'm thinking of doing it?

It gets worse when sex is involved. I'm male and can't identify as a woman with big breasts and a tight butt. I think most women wouldn't enjoy reading that they have a rigid cock either.

The other thing wrong with this style of writing is it can read like you're making it up as you go, similar to the conversation in a chat room, instead of relating something that has happened or is happening at the time.

 

[SimonDoom]

You may want some kind of framing device to "sell" point of view A, because, as HectorBidon notes, it reads somewhat like a letter, or a tale being told by A to B for some reason. You might consider an introduction that sets up the story, making sense of why it's being told this way.

I wouldn't "nope" out of a story told this way, but I'd probably be on higher alert than normal, anticipating that there's a better chance than usual that things will go awry. If you have to pay more attention when writing a story like this one to make it work.

 

[Lifestyle66]

As we see here and in the other thread of "annoying first-person" turning off readers immediately, some people have zero tolerance for a first-person POV.

IRL I prefer my own experiences and have little tolerance for spectator sports or spectator events. I don't want to watch a movie about someone climbing Mount Everest, unless I'm using that as training to prepare myself to do the climb. I watch scuba divers or sky divers on TV and become more critical of the story or filming because I DO IT myself. I can better relate to what they are doing and feeling in those movies.

I prefer first person, because I like getting into the head of the MC, not just standing back in third-person and judging. I don't need to know what's around the corner which the MC is going to stupidly stumble into, sitting back in judgement thinking "well, who didn't see that coming?" I prefer the story take me through what the MC is thinking and feeling and knowing why I'm about to turn that corner. And if, in the story, I have a chainsaw in my hands, explain to me why I'm thinking of carrying it and what I want to do with it. Don't just tell me the character is a psycho. Show me how I might have grown to become that psycho and make me feel like I had no choice!

In the 2008 movie "The Dark Knight", Keith Ledger gave a great performance portraying a psycho Joker. But who would want to BE him? The 2019 movie "Joker" had Joaquin Phoenix showing us how the Joker came to be, and we could know the injustices which might even turn any of us into such a psycho!

By reading well-written first-person POV stories, I think I can understand more about motivations and people, rather than just sitting back always judging others. Referring to "you", the story becomes more about the couple, while "him" makes it more of an indifferent internal struggle of the MC.

EDIT: So, in my opinion, the OP should write the story in first person, whether referring to "you" or "him". But keep it consistent throughout the story and tell me only what you the MC sees and thinks as you go.

 

[SimonDoom]

As we see here and in the other thread of "annoying first-person" turning off readers immediately, some people have zero tolerance for a first-person POV.

The objection people are expressing in this thread isn't to first person POV per se, it's the particular version of first person POV shown in sample 1, where the first person narrator is communicating with another person as "you" rather than referring to others in the third person.