Really Weird Feedback

[BlackShanglan]

A pleasure to see you as well, Box. I've always liked the simple and joyful purity of purpose in your smut.

 

[TxRad]

A Shang sighting!

Welcome back, I hope it's back anyway.

 

[Handley_Page]

Somebody find this nutbar a soapbox and a street corner. Maybe he'll bother some other people.

He's not one of the Phelps clan is he ?

 

[OnlyByMoonlight]

OMG!

I actually psted that into a word document to see how many words it was, it was almost 10K! Thats like a short novel.

 

[Nightwork1]

Granted I'm new to getting published (only two stories published thus far) and I still have LOTS to learn but does it bother anyone else when someone gives you feedback who has never had anything published? I'm not trying to be a snob, I just found it interesting although the feedback the person left was pretty good.

 

[voluptuary_manque]

Granted I'm new to getting published (only two stories published thus far) and I still have LOTS to learn but does it bother anyone else when someone gives you feedback who has never had anything published? I'm not trying to be a snob, I just found it interesting although the feedback the person left was pretty good.

I will certainly give more credence to the comments of anyone with a considerable body of work, especially if said work has been highly regarded by the readers. On the other hand, compliments are notoriously "fair and reasonable" no matter where they come from.

 

[Boxlicker101]

Granted I'm new to getting published (only two stories published thus far) and I still have LOTS to learn but does it bother anyone else when someone gives you feedback who has never had anything published? I'm not trying to be a snob, I just found it interesting although the feedback the person left was pretty good.

That depends on what is said. If somebody says something like: That was really hot. I was dripping wet before I was half way through, and I started playing with my clit, and came when Cindy Lou did." that's the kind of feedback that I love to get. Or, if I made an error that needs correcting, such as changing a name during the course of the story, I appreciate having that called to my attention.

I assume by "published" you mean published on Lit. I don't like it when somebody who has never written a dirty story is trying to tell me how to write a dirty story.

 

[sr71plt]

I don't like it when somebody who has never written a dirty story is trying to tell me how to write a dirty story.

How about folks who don't write erotica--or have written little and not recently--setting themselves as review authorities on Lit.? (No need to answer)

 

[Nightwork1]

Yes, by published I mean on Lit (which I consider quite an honor). On my last story I got two comments, one from a person who had nothing published on Literotica (but did provide some good feedback) and another from an Anonymous poster.

 

[BlackShanglan]

I don't think that one needs to have written a great deal of any specific genre, or indeed of anything at all, to offer some useful feedback. Even the most uninformed reader can tell you what is and isn't coming through well to him or her, and then you can always weigh that with other feedback to decide which end of the reader-writer partnership seems to bear the greater responsibility for the difficulties.

I see no profit in dismissing anyone's critique out of hand; to my mind, it's a dangerously common error to blame one's reader rather than one's writing. I would rather ask msyelf what else I could have done to bring my thoughts forward more strongly, and to save dismissing the reader as uninformed as an absolute last resort.

 

[sr71plt]

I don't think that one needs to have written a great deal of any specific genre, or indeed of anything at all, to offer some useful feedback. Even the most uninformed reader can tell you what is and isn't coming through well to him or her, and then you can always weigh that with other feedback to decide which end of the reader-writer partnership seems to bear the greater responsibility for the difficulties.

I see no profit in dismissing anyone's critique out of hand; to my mind, it's a dangerously common error to blame one's reader rather than one's writing. I would rather ask msyelf what else I could have done to bring my thoughts forward more strongly, and to save dismissing the reader as uninformed as an absolute last resort.

I'd prefer to hear from someone with some actual training and experience and who was able to demonstrate the skill they claim to be able to guide a writer to--and provide more help than half-baked hindrance to development. But that's just me. I wasn't born gullible and I have a high regard for the welfare of what I spend time and effort writing.

I do recognize that it's a lot easier to tell other people what to do than to actually do it yourself--and it can give you such a glowing feel of superiority--especially if you can employ such high-flying guidance as "this sucks" or "everyone who is sophisticated writes in the third person."

 

[BlackShanglan]

I wasn't born gullible and I have a high regard for the welfare of what I spend time and effort writing.

Ah, I think this is where we differ. You regard your work highly and thus wish to defend it; I regard mine highly and thus wish to improve it.

 

[Handley_Page]

I don't think that one needs to have written a great deal of any specific genre, or indeed of anything at all, to offer some useful feedback. Even the most uninformed reader can tell you what is and isn't coming through well to him or her, and then you can always weigh that with other feedback to decide which end of the reader-writer partnership seems to bear the greater responsibility for the difficulties.

I see no profit in dismissing anyone's critique out of hand; to my mind, it's a dangerously common error to blame one's reader rather than one's writing. I would rather ask myself what else I could have done to bring my thoughts forward more strongly, and to save dismissing the reader as uninformed as an absolute last resort.

Strange, that. I've always fought shy of trying to make a 'practical' criticism because I don't not rate my skills highly (one story's not enough). All I an do is say if I like it.

 

[sr71plt]

Ah, I think this is where we differ. You regard your work highly and thus wish to defend it; I regard mine highly and thus wish to improve it.

Not really. I learned fairly early on not to go to the hospital orderly to perform my heart surgery. While it's true that the hospital orderly can stumble on an insight of brilliance or two, chances are when he swings the scalpel, I'm gonna die, because heart surgery--like good writing--just ain't that simple. And I improve my work by bouncing if off writers who are more skilled than I am, rather than the good old Internet discussion room custom of taking each and every comment/commenter as of equal value and validity. (Their opinion can certainly be of equal value in terms of their own enjoyment--but not of equal value in terms of my writing development.)

 

[fifty5]

Not really. I learned fairly early on not to go to the hospital orderly to perform my heart surgery. While it's true that the hospital orderly can stumble on an insight of brilliance or two, chances are when he swings the scalpel, I'm gonna die, because heart surgery--like good writing--just ain't that simple. And I improve my work by bouncing if off writers who are more skilled than I am, rather than the good old Internet discussion room custom of taking each and every comment/commenter as of equal value and validity. (Their opinion can certainly be of equal value in terms of their own enjoyment--but not of equal value in terms of my writing development.)

To me, it depends on how a criticism is phrased... Someone who says my writing is crap because there is something wrong with my writing has to be able to provide evidence that they know about writing. In contrast someone who says my writing is crap because when they read it it doesn't work for them only has to know about reading (and whether it makes them jerk off to a climax).

Both categories can be jerks, but the criteria for criticism worth reading and taking note of is rather different.

I'm, as a reader, mostly in the latter category, though common courtesy means I don't often write bad feedback; everyone is entitled to get turned on, or not, by whatever they are turned on, or not.

As a writer, I will admit that I find praise for what I've written by other writers is much more valued.

Just as complaints divide into different classes, so do compliments...

 

[BlackShanglan]

Not really. I learned fairly early on not to go to the hospital orderly to perform my heart surgery. While it's true that the hospital orderly can stumble on an insight of brilliance or two, chances are when he swings the scalpel, I'm gonna die, because heart surgery--like good writing--just ain't that simple. And I improve my work by bouncing if off writers who are more skilled than I am, rather than the good old Internet discussion room custom of taking each and every comment/commenter as of equal value and validity. (Their opinion can certainly be of equal value in terms of their own enjoyment--but not of equal value in terms of my writing development.)

You see yourself as the patient in this example. That's an interesting choice, and probably has something to do with our various approaches. Certainly, if I perceived myself as the passive recipient of someone else's actions, I would want that person to be highly skilled.

However, if we're going with your medical model, I see it more as a Dr. House moment. We're performing a differential diagnosis on my text, and I'd like to gather as much information as possible in order to make the correct diagnosis and set up a plan for treatment. It's true that skilled professionals will generally offer the most useful input, but it's also true that even an unskilled orderly - or, heaven forfend, the patient himself - might have a crucial piece of information that I haven't noticed.

Given that no treatment or modification will be taking place without my express direction and participation, I see no harm in hearing people out; they can't alter the text, nor can they remake my opinion of it unless I choose to allow that. I'm in charge, and so I feel cheerfully indulgent.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

Not really. I learned fairly early on not to go to the hospital orderly to perform my heart surgery. While it's true that the hospital orderly can stumble on an insight of brilliance or two, chances are when he swings the scalpel, I'm gonna die, because heart surgery--like good writing--just ain't that simple. And I improve my work by bouncing if off writers who are more skilled than I am, rather than the good old Internet discussion room custom of taking each and every comment/commenter as of equal value and validity. (Their opinion can certainly be of equal value in terms of their own enjoyment--but not of equal value in terms of my writing development.)

Youre correct.

If the corridor mopper is right 1% of the time, the surgeon is likely right 99% of the time.

What matters is knowing your limits and recognizing improvement when it comes hopping down the bunny trail.

 

[sr71plt]

You see yourself as the patient in this example.

Naw, it isn't even a case of seeing myself. I have my trusted readers. It's more of a case of seeing charlatan "reviewers" leading the gullible down wrong paths.

And since my discussion is of reviewing here on Lit., it seems your method must be a little slow and belabored in considering how much to consider for how long--seeing as you haven't posted a story here since 2006.

I'm more about doing rather than just talking myself.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

Aunt Shabby?

How come youre so hot to give your wares away at LIT? You must be gettin some from Mike & Carol.

 

[driphoney]

Granted I'm new to getting published (only two stories published thus far) and I still have LOTS to learn but does it bother anyone else when someone gives you feedback who has never had anything published? I'm not trying to be a snob, I just found it interesting although the feedback the person left was pretty good.

I prefer it. I don't write for other writers. I'd never be good enough. I like writing for people who just enjoy a story. While a good evaluation from a good writer is valuable for me as a writer, it doesn't compare to the joy I get from someone getting something from the story. I got this feedback the other day:

My wife and I had a swivel rocker that we used many times for our lovemaking. We nearly wore that old chair out. Several times my wife wanted to throw it out, but then we'd make love in it again--and she decided to keep it. Loved your story--it brought back many great memories.

The comment happened to be written by another writer, but it's not a critique. The occasional comment like that make it worth posting.

ETA: I'm assuming from your comments and not the meanderings of the latest posts, that you are talking about feedback comments posted on your story. When/if readers start commenting on my ability, I don't throw it out without consideration, but I don't give it as much weight as I do those I trust.

 

[sr71plt]

I prefer it. I don't write for other writers. I'd never be good enough. I like writing for people who just enjoy a story. While a good evaluation from a good writer is valuable for me as a writer, it doesn't compare to the joy I get from someone getting something from the story. I got this feedback the other day:

You've combined two different things here, haven't you? Comments on the content of the story and what you did with it as opposed to more technical critique by folks who tell you how you should have written it. Two things. Not the same things.

 

[driphoney]

You've combined two different things here, haven't you? Comments on the content of the story and what you did with it as opposed to folks who tell you how you should have written it. Two things. Not the same things.

Yes I did. But I felt the person I was responding to was talking about feedback comments, not reviews. Even Box's OP was about a reader feedback to his story. When getting feedback you get two types: folks giving you a reaction to your story, and folks critiquing your story. However, I would say that in a roundabout way even content feedback is giving you information about your story, right? While it isn't telling you specifically how to improve it, or how specifically it's working, it's letting you know it does work for at least some of your readers, and well enough (or not!) that they even take time to respond.

Having said that and having now read the rest of the thread, I agree with both you and Shan even though you are disagreeing somewhat. In the same stoker that got me the feedback I posted, if you were to give me constructive feedback, I'd take that very seriously and look hard at my piece. When a random reader said I needed to "learn grammer", I didn't give him much weight.

 

[Boxlicker101]

Yes I did. But I felt the person I was responding to was talking about feedback comments, not reviews. Even Box's OP was about a reader feedback to his story. When getting feedback you get two types: folks giving you a reaction to your story, and folks critiquing your story. However, I would say that in a roundabout way even content feedback is giving you information about your story, right? While it isn't telling you specifically how to improve it, or how specifically it's working, it's letting you know it does work for at least some of your readers, and well enough (or not!) that they even take time to respond.

Having said that and having now read the rest of the thread, I agree with both you and Shan even though you are disagreeing somewhat. In the same stoker that got me the feedback I posted, if you were to give me constructive feedback, I'd take that very seriously and look hard at my piece. When a random reader said I needed to "learn grammer", I didn't give him much weight.

If he misspells "Grammar" he shouldn't get any.

 

[driphoney]

If he misspells "Grammar" he shouldn't get any.

learn grammer
02/26/09 by Anonymous
The author needs lessons in and to learn grammer. Such junk as "Honey ..., hon ..., oh, god, ... I'm ... ah... mm .." is nothing but a waste of space and bandwidth and voids rules of decent grammer even a grade school student wouldn't.

The funny thing is that I readily admit I'm a weak grammarian, and if I were to do it again, I'd probably reduce the ellipses, though they weren't misused. But hey, it was the first (and pretty much only) stroker I've ever written. I did have it beta'd and edited.

 

[sr71plt]

However, I would say that in a roundabout way even content feedback is giving you information about your story, right?

Maybe, maybe not. I see some maybe not on Lit.--critiquers who are, as politely as I can put it, confused but not shy about trumpeting what they don't know. These folks aren't really going beyond telling you about them--if you can figure out what is happening.