Poetry; not war

[My Erotic Trail]

(This 'post' does not reflect the ideas, thoughts and or in anyway reflect the ideas of all poets here and most certainly not the site's owners)

Poetry; not war

please read thoroughly, for as the post starts out; it will be con-strewed as an act of war; it is not, in this post's ending, I hope to bring peace to this ongoing battle and will answer to all the dissected clips, defensive posts, sore toes, apology issues and as always... I will stand my ground, with my opinions and answer any of your questions or try; and substantiate any of my beliefs. You can call them lies, call me a hypocrite, mediocre or any other mud slinging word you like or that you can make up or come-up with, to make yourself feel better about what you do; but the truth is like a pebble buried in the sand, you may not see it, but it is there. (borrowing this 'idea' from Maria, which she said a tad bit differently, but she is right... it is here and even though it is not spoken of, or pep-rallied, it is none-the-less, here. (explained in a paragraph below)


There is a land; where poets gather (Lit-Ville) and share their writes as poets. And like all countries, or gathering of people; a time comes where the people's beliefs are divided; with different views of how life as a poet/person should be viewed and a civil war breaks out. Each side wishing to extinguish the other's idealism? (I only wish to extinguish rude comments, remarks and thread hi-jackers and redirect the attention of those verbally lashing out at friends of mine, defending others) (both sides are guilty of this which is why it has grown into what it has today)

The battle begins with hi-jacking another's thread (sounds a lot like terrorists hi-jacking a plane) Using verbal assaults as a weapon... discrediting anyone who does not believe the way that they do. They call themselves; The Intellectual Elite (TIE) sounds appropriate. (The oval, the elliptic, the circle of greater poets, the pompous posse, and so many other names made by the greater poets as well as those in opposition, (myself included) Generally speaking... (the intellectual elitist) (TIE) Those who bind you to becoming serious poets by thickening your skin so that you can take their verbal abuse with a smile. I am not against any one absorbing knowledge and becoming intelligent, I am however against on-line gangs converging to verbally attack another.

With that being said, we have to have an alternate: a Nemesis; the counter balance; the yang to the yin; <grin... the lesser poets; the common people; those souls that come here for general entertainment; mediocre poet. (MPs) <grin The snail has mentioned several times, my crowd, my people, my followers and many more... let me just say, I have no army, I am an Army of One, I have friends that I have met here who share the same interest, the joy of writing and sharing thoughts as well as casual conversation. But they are not, I repeat not, my followers, in-fact, I take pride in calling them, friends. Many of them do not believe in making waves or rattling the cages of the TIE! I admire that as well. They simply wish to enjoy the poetry forum and ALL its benefits from learning... to laughing, without being slapped on their hands by a ruler from a disgruntled professor.


so by now, your probably saying to yourself, "where is this going?" please bare with me... there is three years worth of unraveling to do in this knot, that binds us.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~`
(quoting... pat carrington)

what is needed more than anything is not a revamping of the voting system (unless it is eliminated totally, which would be very helpful).

it is for people to recognize that saying good things about a bad poem is not "encouragement" to write better, but simply encouragement to write more bad poetry.

to sit back and say nothing, or worse to praise publicly or privately, a poem that you feels is not up to par may be the 'nice' thing to do, but it is in fact detrimental. it is nothing more than the enabling of bad behavior, so to speak, like handing out a lollipop to shut a screaming child up, or passing out high school diplomas like party napkins to children who can't read.

and i am as guilty as anyone, probably more so.

i read countless threads here of mediocre poetry, watch it get praised and say nothing, when i should really post saying "that poem is terrible, in my opinion," and then back up my opinion with explanation.

in an effort to try to turn this community back to the path it used to walk, i might be willing to do that, and eat all the shitburgers that are tossed my way because of it, but i ain't goin that road alone. i don't have the time to continually comment on poems posted on threads, and i'm not fond of shitburgers.

as of now, i am far from convinced that is what this community desires, though i am totally convinced that is what it needs if it is to ever again be the viable poetry forum it used to be.

and i'm not sure it would achieve the desired purpose anyway.

but if i see a troop of other quality poets who are willing to tell the truth as they see it for once, instead of hiding behind the safety of silence, i'll gladly join in...unless i decide to put my walking shoes on too, which i am comtemplating.(end quote)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

(my view of this comment) I respect men of honor, men with a spine, John Wayne types, Oliver North, Audy Murphy, men who can stand as an 'army of one' for their beliefs. Then again there are many who can't make a move without 'Followers.' The fearful. Showing your fears; is showing your weakness, in battle but it is a natural emotion, pat. Which should make you the bishop in this chess match for you always slither sideways.

Is this an admission to do other's verbal harm in order to conduct the TIE's order. Well, that explains your attempts to discredit my beliefs <bigsmile... why didn't you say so in the first place without all the crying and verbal assaults. So a gathering of this TIE has a constitution laid before them and then follows...the black queen


```````````````````````````````````````
lauren 8/22/05
I'm with you on all accounts, Pat. As far as I'm concerned, I could care less if that is what the "community" wants. It's what it needs - for a start - and it's what it is going to get.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

now, Lauren, I respect her fiesty-ness, her ability to tackle a problem head-on without any backing... but I do not fear a woman's scorn and or public threats. So here we have the seed of what grew into the Poetry wars.. So a declaration of war (in the poetry forum) has been issued here;


I say... Poetry; not war

but find it simple to understand why all the verbsl attacks from the TIE, after reading this!

This explains the many poets that have had to deal with the 'TIE' and have chosen to leave. Just yesterday, I received another PM, where another mediocre poet, has decided to leave because they are tired of the 'TIE' harassing them for being... mediocre. Stating that, if they do not get serious, they will never be a good poet and should find another place to dwell because this place is only for serious poets?. (is this the motto of the TIE..) the same group that posts 'joyous' posts of dildo slinging, edible panties, beer drinking monkeys and do not get me wrong... I see nothing wrong with having fun but it seems that would make some of the TIE hypocrites for doing what they tell others not to do. What difference is there between the 'fun' posts of the TIE and the fun posts of the MPs? The difference is like the Hatfield's and the McCoys, the Yankees and the rebels, the grudges held between rival sport teams; there is no difference, other than, what side of the fence your standing on. The line in the sand, the gang's colors you wear, the turf you guard.

I really had an eye opener yesterday, with as much as Maria's posts that she is contemplating leaving ALSO, because, she has been caught in the cross fire, again. (I apologize Maria, I wish I could make them be nicer to others but that is simply and obviously, their character's traits coming out in words... and yes, I am just as guilty and I apologize to you for them as well as for mine, and all the casualties and collateral damage that this poetry forum's battles have inflicted.)

Yesterday, I asked 'someone' to come to this forum, and read... and give me their honest opinion as to what is the faults of this poetry forum. I wanted an outsider's opinion, simply by reading, the ambition thread, the thread, "what kind of small world' and what ever else she may choose to fall into and give me some idea as to what she thinks of the site... where I spend a lot of my time. Her opinion, "false-hood".. now before you get all defensive, allow me to add that this person is a TIE of a higher power, an intellectual elitist, one of those college brains, a very sharp minded woman. A Doctor, poet and writer who has graciously offered to assist me in writing my article; Ambition.

Where she agrees with the aspect of poets getting serious about their poetry, and that this site is a public forum for entertainment (the TIE's motto and the MP's motto) she finds it appalling that these Intellectuals as well as myself, scoop so verbally low and act like children in a play ground with name calling and fabricating propaganda (what ever that means) true, Intelligent people would not make a porn site their home. (guessing that meant me as well) There are, according to her, sites where true intelligent people exchange brilliant ideas with a rational tone in their voice, like a group of professors or a gathering at a literary symposium. (what ever that is) I wanted an outsider's opinion of this poetry forum and what was taking place as far as, a poetry war between the TIEs and MPs. She noted that this site (the poetry forum) is for all levels of poets, from beginners to the elite, and the elite should be helpful to those who wish to learn without all the scorned brows and demeaning tones. A helpful person, first earns your respect and expresses their views with a kind heart... (of course their are proffesors that teach this way but you can almost always find another to learn from) and she saw very little kind hearted views here. With the exception of Maria and I even hate to say this... Jim! and I think she fell in love with, neo <bigrin

I have heard it said (about me) from the TIE's that I do not wish to learn and my poetry will never get better without getting serious, well, I have gotten serious and bought a handful of books, I have asked several thoughtful people here to help me on several literary ventures, and they were pleasing and very understandable, in the nicest way possible, so I know it is possible to learn from those without swollen egos, or lashing tongues, and or it does not have anything to do with the thickness of their skin (that is a cop-out by the way, that is a rolled out carpet for one to come and bow to another) it seems the disgruntled ones are those who want to allow harshness to rule. <grin

Like Senna's comment that has been hashed out so many times. It was said that; "that is okay for him to lash out at a poet for he knows poetry better than most and we can learn from him." Well, if that is how you look at it by all means allow them to ridicule you, if that is what you like, so that you may learn... but that does not have to be the path of others. Du Lac and several others (I won't make a list of names) taught poetry and literary grammar in the nicest possible way, the way that I feel so many want to learn from, wicked and ange, another two, who not only invest a lot of time as mods but have a way of helping others without looking down their noses at someone.

so, in order to stay focused on my purpose for this posting, The Poetry War... is not a war, there is no, ongoing battle, there is no right or wrong side, there are two 'right' sides doing the 'wrong' things. I would love to learn poetry, I will never and I feel so many others agree here; we, may never be the Great Poets of this century or even decade, perhaps some here are Ambitious and wish to achieve this goal but don't drag every one with you, the slot is usually filled with what? One or two people, 'I believe that is what was coined by some here.' So if there are a couple dozen 'GOOD' poets here then ten won't make it and that does not even scratch the surface of those outside this site that are serious, great and will probably be the next great poet. Go for it... if that is your ambition.

A person expresses them self in this site, because they were lured by the words, Poetry Discussion and Feedback, to most of us, <bigrin... we read poetry and fell into the site, only to soon find critics and poets alike; that want to chew your poetry to shreds as well as those who are helpful and can make a difference in a writers life. "Thanks, goes out to many of you for that." Is it a glass pyramid, and those who get the most beneath them wins? We come here and soon learn who has the need to practice their critiquing abilities, who has themselves placed on a soap box, who is helpful, who is scornful, who is nice and who is not. Who writes well and who does not. Who wants to be the next Great poet and who has come here simply to enjoy, sharing and writing poetry. It does not take a rocket scientist to figure out where someone's heart is; by the way they express themselves.

Is it the initial purpose of the TIE, to run those off that do not believe in the way that they do, as it has been so obviously done in the past? As well as yesterday!!!! This explains all the comments given to me by those of the TIE, calling me a liar, prove it, calling me a hypocrite, grasping for straws in order to discredit another, for the comment used of mine was an ill excuse to coin a person as a hypocrite, especially from the 'two' who deceive others, as I said, I'll stand with honors as a hypocrite rather than be deceitful as they have (this can be substantiated) and I will discuss any issue with any one...

Poetry; not war

are we here for poetry? did we find this site because we had a need to down others? (I think not) we all came here to read, write, share in poetry. Like most schools you'll have your 'elite' (honor roll) and you'll have your struggling, mediocre poets, hoping to learn while they dabble in the enjoyment of POETRY! We can all learn to get along, the forum is big enough for all of us, and I would hope that the many changes that the TIE as well as the MPs would like to see can be met in a peaceful and tranquil environment.

I have heard both sides say that they are saddened by the loss of so many poets that have left this site because of the verbal battles, the bickering, the thread hi-jackings as well as the removal of whole threads in order for the TIE's to prevail in their quest for an Intellectual elitism forum. As well as the MPs hopes for a place to be entertaining while learning, poetry. A community (I have heard it said) a gathering of poets as well as non poets coming to simply read what is written. The same as a gang running other's off their turf. But if I am correct, I read on another board where literotica makes their money; by pages being opened (.005 cents) every time a page is opened. (I believe that is correct, it has been awhile since I read that and it stuck in my mind every time I open a Lit page). So I am sure they do not care if it is by a TIE or an MP as long as their is a body of souls that enjoy coming here and making them money while enjoying the Art of on line sharing. It is someone else's land, and we are the park's visitors.

There are so many issues to this topic that I feel I can not cover them all and still keep the attention of whomever is reading this, please tell me your opinion, suggestion, I am open to a summit meeting of the minds. I am not at war with any one here. (yet, the snail and I do squabble, but I do try and ignore him) I am not trying to control this forum, I come and post on 'generally' the same exact threads, day after day (except the two days I am unavailable in the week) I am guilty of defending other poets from the TIE's and that is my crime? I can live with that but formost... we can agree to disagree.

I have learned in the Ambition thread it is possible for two to debate their beliefs, not see a situation eye to eye and yet still keep it civil. I am reminded that those who express their frustration are showing that they have a limited mind. So when you start lashing out at another with 'fucktards' and 'asshole' and all the other adjectives expressed by a limited mind (I am just as guilty for I have a mirror personality) but then I do not hide that I have a limited mind, I am not going to be the next great writer, I do however enjoy strolling through this site.

You want war? Casualties of war... has been seen so many times over in this forum. I for one have watched way to many leave. I do not have a hateful soul as I am sure so many of you believe. In fact my main intrest in this site is poetry, I have clashed with others, by defending others against verbal assaults from the TIE in their champagne to make this forum a place for the intellectual elite.(allow me to add that I have defended this site against those who come with a pocket full of trouble who were not TIES)

I for one thought this was accomplished when Lauren arranged a new forum, the discussion circle and with eve's new site, I thought perhaps that the TIE (intellectual elite) had finally found a place where they can do what makes them happy. They can dissect each other in their own arena and hopeful the forum will grow in numbers and every one will be happy, but...what I see is the TIE argue among themselves about the way a poem should be, come on... it is confusing enough with now making it harder to know who knows what they are talking about.

I read in one of my books and I will try and recall which; that, poetry is not an exact science, it can be one thing to one person and another to another, so this makes it universal. What is great to the snail is not great to Pat and what pat likes as a great poet is not well digested by others. Well why is it that, that does not apply to the MPs, is it because they do not know that there can be variables in everything or is it simply a small meal for a critic? A pressing of one';s beliefs on another about the way to write? Their are poets and then there are poets with a need to tell others they did not write well... pathetic? I think it simply boils down to... are you a nice person... or not! Those who teach well here, are sought, and I thank them for teaching with a wonderful bed side manner. I can not say that about everyone, then again we are not all the same

Poetry: not war


bows (~_~) humble

 

[My Erotic Trail]

Apologies to every one...
for this having gone this far... or writing sucha long post <grin
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
(parrot dee, 1201, anonamouse, the snail and the other names he goes by, to obviously troll, votes and or play his verbal games (sorry snail, my opinion of the way you have voted on my writes and changed names like a snake sheds its skin); stated;

(quote by the snail)
PUBLIC APOLOGY
for your unfounded accusations, nasty inferences. start now, and I will go away
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
well 'hell' I apologize...
for... not doing that sooner


I apologize to the public for not having found a way to settle the issues this forum incures, periodically and for fueling the fires inadvertantly; as well as head on; instead of finding a way to passify those enraged by, MY OPINIONS of their critical comments. It is okay for a critic to critique harshly on a poem but yet it is not okay for some one to critique the critics comment. And it is certainly okay for a critic to critique a comment I make about their critique. <grin

Sorry, nobody showed me this in the rule book. And no one showed me where it is okay for others to attack a thread and that all should remain silent while they do so. I apologize, I never read where this was the norm and for me not to help out the poor soul being verbally battered.

But by all means, if you feel I owe you an apology, simply state why. I am open for discussing the issue. In a polite way, please. I only wish to figure out what it will take for the TIEs nd the MPs to get along and to allow this forum to grow, unless that is what is not wanted by some.

Poetry; not war

 

[WickedEve]

What's this thread about?
I just can't read all that. Give me the 10 word or less version. I'm not kidding. I get freaked out by anything over 100 words. Don't freak me out, Art.

 

[eagleyez]

What's this thread about?
I just can't read all that. Give me the 10 word or less version. I'm not kidding. I get freaked out by anything over 100 words. Don't freak me out, Art.

I must concur.

Lazybones.

 

[WickedEve]

I must concur.

Lazybones.

You read it, then tell me all about it--in 10 words or less. Less.

 

[My Erotic Trail]

What's this thread about?
I just can't read all that. Give me the 10 word or less version. I'm not kidding. I get freaked out by anything over 100 words. Don't freak me out, Art.

allow me to add, since the first response so graciously and politely pointed out; that what the TIE's want is not necessarily a bad thing and I am all for their pursuit. It is the tactics used to gain such a circle in a public / members site that I am addressing, while trying to make a treaty that both sides would be happy with.

I think this world is filled with both, Intellectuals and mediocre and I have never seen them clash in this way unless you want to speak of Nazi's or communism and even then I would hope we learned from their mistakes. Here in America (and I realize many are not from here) we have freedom of speech and expression, I am exercising that right; when I place my opinion in public.

I believe this site is big enough for both!

Poetry; not war

 

[GuiltyPleasure]

(This 'post' does not reflect the ideas, thoughts and or in anyway reflect the ideas of all poets here and most certainly not the site's owners)

Poetry; not war

please read thoroughly,

You lost me around this point. Go chew your cud in private please.

 

[champagne1982]

hi Art,

It's campaign not champagne. You once referred to me as a member of the "TIE" so therefore, I'd appreciate it if you changed your malapropism of champagne to campaign.

Another thing, if I may, not every discussion is an argument. You state that the TIE argue amongst themselves over what constitutes good poetry. I'd suggest that anyone who doesn't have an opinion about the subject, shouldn't even try to interpret what the interactions are in a thread they are merely reading.

Finally, you are paraphrasing several voices into your own words. To you the statements may seem unkind or discouraging, however, if read in the complete context of the discussion, with a mature and dispassionate attitude, sometimes these statements are merely indications of how someone else feels.

Everyone's feelings are valid, they shouldn't be the sole basis of argument (or discussion, if you'd rather hear that). So, maybe you should try to distance yourself emotionally from all of this kafluffle and see if you can find that grain of salt that should be added to the brew.

Indifference

Like yesterday's bread,
Best turned into toast,
Taken with sweet, creamy coffee,
And stirred with a silver spoon,
Is a thought,
Best left unspoken,
Until tomorrow,
Then taken with a grain of salt,
And seasoned with time's passage.

Ambivalence cannot be dropped,
Like Salome's seven veils,
Instead it must be grabbed,
Then shaken to wakefulness,
By the scruff of the neck.
So too, dislike,
Like drops of water,
Must fly off the hem,
Of a quickly snapped towel.

Cry your tears of remorse,
Bitter with regret,
And dried in the heat of sorrow,
Lamenting hasty hurt,
Well deserved,
Earned in those moments,
Of foolish insults,
Hurled viciously against,
Those deemed unworthy.

Dance the fool's dance,
Your bell hat jingling,
Nonsense as your rhymes,
Spill off your lips,
Thickened with drink,
Or slowed,
Because your mouth is full of words,
Better left unspoken,
And you've learned the painful lesson.

 

[Tzara]

You read it, then tell me all about it--in 10 words or less. Less.

Four word summary: More of the same.

 

[My Erotic Trail]

You read it, then tell me all about it--in 10 words or less. Less.

actually a more valid interpretation

two more poetry members have expressed their desire to leave because of the poetry wars.

poetry; not war

 

[My Erotic Trail]

hi Art,

It's campaign not champagne. You once referred to me as a member of the "TIE" so therefore, I'd appreciate it if you changed your malapropism of champagne to campaign.

Another thing, if I may, not every discussion is an argument. You state that the TIE argue amongst themselves over what constitutes good poetry. I'd suggest that anyone who doesn't have an opinion about the subject, shouldn't even try to interpret what the interactions are in a thread they are merely reading.

Finally, you are paraphrasing several voices into your own words. To you the statements may seem unkind or discouraging, however, if read in the complete context of the discussion, with a mature and dispassionate attitude, sometimes these statements are merely indications of how someone else feels.

Everyone's feelings are valid, they shouldn't be the sole basis of argument (or discussion, if you'd rather hear that). So, maybe you should try to distance yourself emotionally from all of this kafluffle and see if you can find that grain of salt that should be added to the brew.

Indifference

Like yesterday's bread,
Best turned into toast,
Taken with sweet, creamy coffee,
And stirred with a silver spoon,
Is a thought,
Best left unspoken,
Until tomorrow,
Then taken with a grain of salt,
And seasoned with time's passage.

Ambivalence cannot be dropped,
Like Salome's seven veils,
Instead it must be grabbed,
Then shaken to wakefulness,
By the scruff of the neck.
So too, dislike,
Like drops of water,
Must fly off the hem,
Of a quickly snapped towel.

Cry your tears of remorse,
Bitter with regret,
And dried in the heat of sorrow,
Lamenting hasty hurt,
Well deserved,
Earned in those moments,
Of foolish insults,
Hurled viciously against,
Those deemed unworthy.

Dance the fool's dance,
Your bell hat jingling,
Nonsense as your rhymes,
Spill off your lips,
Thickened with drink,
Or slowed,
Because your mouth is full of words,
Better left unspoken,
And you've learned the painful lesson.

hello carrie, no it was not aimed at you...

in fact you are one of the rocks in this forum that I have learned to admire for your posts tell me when I am wrong and point out when I am right, thus I take it that you are not only impartial but you see with an open mind and express with an open heart...

thanks for you being you!

 

[WickedEve]

actually a more valid interpretation

two more poetry members have expressed their desire to leave because of the poetry wars.

poetry; not war

And then there was eve who was not invited to the poetry war...


So, who's leaving and why should any of us care? If someone leaves because of forum debates/arguments/war, then... so? My goodness! They can avoid those threads and go to all the other "good" threads. Simple as that. It's silly for people to come here, then leave because of a thread or comment on a poem. Even sillier for you to keep telling us about these people. It's like me saying that some greeter at Walmart didn't smile at me and now I won't go back. Trust me. Who'd really care, except me, I guess?

Tell your friends to join in on the 30 poems/30 days thread, or the writing live thread, constuction zone, etc... You know--poetry threads. I'm pretty sure those threads are out of the war zone.

 

[Decayed Angel]

Peace at last?

A helpful person, first earns your respect and expresses their views with a kind heart... (of course their are proffesors that teach this way but you can almost always find another to learn from) and she saw very little kind hearted views here. With the exception of Maria and I even hate to say this... Jim! and I think she fell in love with, neo <bigrin

...note bold and red color added by me for emphasis



Perhaps Art, this would be a good place for you to issue an apology for claiming otherwise. It might be a way of showing your committment to poetic peace.

 

[Sara Crewe]

And then there was eve who was not invited to the poetry war...


So, who's leaving and why should any of us care? If someone leaves because of forum debates/arguments/war, then... so? My goodness! They can avoid those threads and go to all the other "good" threads. Simple as that. It's silly for people to come here, then leave because of a thread or comment on a poem. Even sillier for you to keep telling us about these people. It's like me saying that some greeter at Walmart didn't smile at me and now I won't go back. Trust me. Who'd really care, except me, I guess?

Tell your friends to join in on the 30 poems/30 days thread, or the writing live thread, constuction zone, etc... You know--poetry threads. I'm pretty sure those threads are out of the war zone.

Exactly. It's all about choice. There is a choice people just dont want to see it and look for someone else to blame.

 

[Liar]

Most of your original post makes my head spin. I'm burning the midnight oul for a deadline tomorrow morning, so I'm not at my most focused self...

But this one stuck out: Um...Art... "Mediocre" poets? Is that what you call them, or is that what they call themselves?

Either way, I'd try to use a different word. To tag someone as mediocre is just as mean, if not more mean, than the frank comments you seems to hate so much.

"Aspiring", maybe?

Or really, not even that. How about "people"? There is only a dichotomy here, an in and an out, jocks and geeks or whatever, as long as people keep defining it like so.

I'm me. You're you. They're them. Individuals are different. And evertything else, all the tags and circles and conspiracies, are just tacky mythology.

 

[Never]

Posting on this forum appears to be like tiptoeing through the bear traps.

 

[Liar]

Posting on this forum appears to be like tiptoeing through the bear traps.

They're only bear traps if you believe in them.

 

[My Erotic Trail]

...note bold and red color added by me for emphasis



Perhaps Art, this would be a good place for you to issue an apology for claiming otherwise. It might be a way of showing your committment to poetic peace.

well, jim, as I stated in the Ambition thread, I apologize for not being able to find the comment that I was speaking of and since then have searched and do not recall who the author was; you left a 'tough' comment from two years ago.

I apologize if I hurt your feelings in any way, you are a nice guy and have proved this so in our conversation in the thread; Ambition. I see criticism differently than you (I do not feel the need to critique) and I understand how new poets feel when they have been critiqued harshly; when a critic leaves a comment that is not favorable, is different. Constructive criticism is what you leave for the most part and as we have discussed even the best of us have stepped on a few toes over the past three years. I have been here long enough now to understand critics and to know who is here to leave their harshness on others and who leaves comments in order to help others, you are for the most part... the later!


I do, I apologize for our differences and once again apologize if I have hurt your feelings, in any way! We have clashed in the past and may clash in the future but for the most part, I hope this situation is resolved so that poetry can prevail here.

bows humble (~_~)

 

[My Erotic Trail]

Most of your original post makes my head spin. I'm burning the midnight oul for a deadline tomorrow morning, so I'm not at my most focused self...

But this one stuck out: Um...Art... "Mediocre" poets? Is that what you call them, or is that what they call themselves?

Either way, I'd try to use a different word. To tag someone as mediocre is just as mean, if not more mean, than the frank comments you seems to hate so much.

"Aspiring", maybe?

Or really, not even that. How about "people"? There is only a dichotomy here, an in and an out, jocks and geeks or whatever, as long as people keep defining it like so.

I'm me. You're you. They're them. Individuals are different. And evertything else, all the tags and circles and conspiracies, are just tacky mythology.

Thank you liar but I didnot make up the name, it is the name tagged to those who are not intelligent poets, by others. I was told our poetry is mediocre by several, (reference; The Ambition thread) so it was adapted... perhaps, new poets or beginner poets or for my self, just some one who will not ever write great poetry. anything other than lesser poets and greater poets <grin

 

[My Erotic Trail]

And then there was eve who was not invited to the poetry war...




Tell your friends to join in on the 30 poems/30 days thread, or the writing live thread, constuction zone, etc... You know--poetry threads. I'm pretty sure those threads are out of the war zone.

I believe many have found enjoyment from these threads, eve, thank you!

 

[vampiredust]

I am unsure as to whether such divisions are needed here

we are all poets here so let us put down our pies for a second and just write. there, imho, shouldn't be any need for labelling of poets. everyone here, new or old, is at a different stage of their writing. let us accept that and give encouragement and love.

let us respect, also, the diversity here. by that, i mean not gender etc, but the range of poets and styles. we should all respect each other and appreciate feedback given

 

[My Erotic Tail]

I am unsure as to whether such divisions are needed here

we are all poets here so let us put down our pies for a second and just write. there, imho, shouldn't be any need for labelling of poets. everyone here, new or old, is at a different stage of their writing. let us accept that and give encouragement and love.

let us respect, also, the diversity here. by that, i mean not gender etc, but the range of poets and styles. we should all respect each other and appreciate feedback given

well said (~_~) thanks Chris~

 

[clutching_calliope]

.....

 

[cherries_on_snow]

I think it makes sense that attacking an individual rather than discussing a viewpoint is warring. It's good to give feedback on poems and to be honest about what works or doesn't work for you. It isn't helpful to mock or slam writers except to the diseased ego of the person doing the mocking or slamming. Nothing MET said seemed particularly like a flame war to me except for the insistence on labelling groups of writers. I'm not in anyone's camp. We're all in process of writing and growing as writers. I am not a great writer. But I may get lucky now and then and make a damn good poem, especially with the help of people who give constructive and useful feedback here.

 

[Tzara]

I see your four word summary and raise you two: Flame war.

Ah, but I have the ace, though it has been used before: Boring.