Looking for a history nerd.

[FromDarkwater]

Specifically, someone with a good knowledge of Colonial America... Massachusetts area... late 1600s... 1692 to be more precise..

Okay, okay, the Salem Witch Trial days! (But if you didn't catch on before I told you, then you probably aren't the history nerd that I'm looking for...)

I am bouncing around a story idea and need some incite. Send me a PM if you are interested. Thanks!

 

[Euphony]

Danvers witches.

 

[lovecraft68]

I could definitely be 'inciteful' in the sense my take on those trials will send those who believe in god into a froth.

 

[BodieOhl]

Well, on my last visit to Salem, I found a relative's grave dated 1692.
I know a little bit, but probably nothing Wikipedia couldn't give.

 

[tenyari]

I could definitely be 'inciteful' in the sense my take on those trials will send those who believe in god into a froth.

Perhaps. But only because of such a gross generalization. Anyone who actually had any faith in the divine would have a serious problem with the miscarriage of justice in those events and the appropriation of faith for political gain that is often a characteristic of organized religion and extremism.

 

[lovecraft68]

Perhaps. But only because of such a gross generalization. Anyone who actually had any faith in the divine would have a serious problem with the miscarriage of justice in those events and the appropriation of faith for political gain that is often a characteristic of organized religion and extremism.

Maybe Christians now look back and see it as a blight, but back then? They were all in and using a fairy tale to attack people who were different from them in anyway. Killing people and letting the damn kids watch to show them this is how it is.

Why? Because that was their faith, and any one who sanitizes that is just as deluded. God is an excuse to murder, pillage, and lynch anyone they want while controlling people so stupid they think there's some deity who created everything in six days and actually gives a fuck about them...but only if they spend their lives groveling, begging and calling themselves unworthy while punishing all those sinners who don't agree.

Jeez, where do I sign up?

Useless fact about myself. I'm a huge horror fan, and I have never set foot in Salem. It should not be a tourist attraction where people think its a joke. Its a disgusting place that should have been razed to the ground years ago. celebrating that dump or thinking "oh, this is cool" makes a mockery of what those people suffered back then.

 

[tenyari]

I know a little bit, but probably nothing Wikipedia couldn't give.

I was there in the 1990s and the town was a tourist trap, but a lot less of one than I would have expected.

There's been a comically large amount of stuff written on the events that happened there. You basically have your usual case of manipulation, scapegoating, etc combined in an era when evidence standards were intentionally barbaric and lacking in logic. For most of human history it's not been very important to root out an actual guilty party - just as the modern day criminal justice system has no desire to nor impact on reducing crime.

These things are about appeasing crowds to prop up 'tough on crime' politicians as well as keep elements of the population 'under control' though state enforced terror. Whether they happen today or in the 1600s.

That noted - the Internet / local library is likely to be a great source of info on the events - and in today's era it will be brutal against the people who held the trials, exposing the sham of the events.

 

[alohadave]

I was there in the 1990s and the town was a tourist trap, but a lot less of one than I would have expected.

It's much, much worse now. Unless you are a real Halloween freak, you avoid the city in October. It gets mobbed, and they take it over.

 

[CyranoJ]

God is an excuse to murder, pillage, and lynch anyone they want while controlling people so stupid they think there's some deity who created everything in six days and actually gives a fuck about them... [Salem] should not be a tourist attraction where people think its a joke. Its a disgusting place that should have been razed to the ground years ago.

People who talk like this sound like cool iconoclasts until you have to talk to them about more complicated questions of religious tolerance. This kind of rhetoric is how the so-called "Four Horsemen of Atheism" built a follower base... but the dark side of it is that any atrocity committed by someone of your faith, no matter how remote, becomes an excuse to abuse and denigrate you. Precisely the route that ultimately discredited figures like Hitchens, Dawkins and Harris.

It sounds good to the likes of @lovecraft68 b/c he's fundamentally ignorant about almost literally everything and has nothing to offer to any cause but empty (and usually counterproductive) posturing. As always, he's executing a Schtick here, and not capable of staking any kind of real moral claim. But it's worth noting that he has chosen to show up here to posture in response to a simple request for historical context, which has nothing at all to do with "tourist attractions" or "[thinking it's] a joke." He doesn't have the basic perspicacity to notice that none of this is relevant to the OP's question.

In response to the OP's question:

I'm not an expert on the period, but I can recommend some books by people who are. To wit: "The Salem Witch Trials: A Day by Day Chronicle of a Community Under Siege" by Marilynne K. Roach. Also, "Death in Salem: The Private Lives Behind the 1692 Witch Hunt" by Diane Foulds. A useful combination of big-picture and more intimate versions of the late-17th century witch trials. That's where I'd start.

 

[Voboy]

I mean, I am a real Halloween freak and I fucking avoid it like a plague from late September to mid November because I'm not that kind of masochist.

I love Salem. I love Halloween. But I hate crowds.

Will drive an hour out of my way to avoid even crossing into a corner of it at that time of year.

Yep. I live nearby, and it's a delightful little town... November through September, anyway.

 

[Voboy]

Maybe Christians now look back and see it as a blight, but back then? They were all in and using a fairy tale to attack people who were different from them in anyway. Killing people and letting the damn kids watch to show them this is how it is.

Why? Because that was their faith, and any one who sanitizes that is just as deluded. God is an excuse to murder, pillage, and lynch anyone they want while controlling people so stupid they think there's some deity who created everything in six days and actually gives a fuck about them...but only if they spend their lives groveling, begging and calling themselves unworthy while punishing all those sinners who don't agree.

Jeez, where do I sign up?

Useless fact about myself. I'm a huge horror fan, and I have never set foot in Salem. It should not be a tourist attraction where people think its a joke. Its a disgusting place that should have been razed to the ground years ago. celebrating that dump or thinking "oh, this is cool" makes a mockery of what those people suffered back then.

I'll just be charitable and say it's possible you're not as knowledgeable about this specific period as you think you are. Just maybe.

 

[AchtungNight]

I have a degree in History and a vivid imagination but I’m not willing to research Salem enough to help you. Good luck.

 

[FromDarkwater]

Okay, thanks @Voboy for your professional input. However, I may need to shelve the project for now. I feel like I just got the proverbial yawn from another Litster. Kind of took the wind out of my sails and I'll go back into hiding again.

 

[Devinter]

Salem. It should not be a tourist attraction where people think its a joke. Its a disgusting place..

I agree completely.

that should have been razed to the ground years ago. celebrating that dump or thinking "oh, this is cool" makes a mockery of what those people suffered back then.

Okay, you had me in the first half.

"Horrible things happened here a long time ago, kid!"

"Yeah, I know. My ancestors got brutally murdered."

"Indeed, so now - hundreds of years later - we're going to have to bulldoze your house and set your belongings on fire! Sucks to be you!"

 

[lovecraft68]

I agree completely.


Okay, you had me in the first half.

"Horrible things happened here a long time ago, kid!"

"Yeah, I know. My ancestors got brutally murdered."

"Indeed, so now - hundreds of years later - we're going to have to bulldoze your house and set your belongings on fire! Sucks to be you!"

It shouldn't have taken hundreds of years.

There's a case to be made that any place like Salem could be seen in the light of the Holocaust museum which exists as a reminder that these atrocities happened, and we need to be reminded of them so they can't happen again. And if you have that mindset, Salem could be viewed that way, especially because we see it today except now its political witchhunts

"Dost thou vote for the party of evil? We will now judge you completely, persecute you and smote ruin upon thee"

But the issue is the crowd that goes there just buys souvenirs and thinks "wow, this is cool" profiting off death and persecution.

And all in the name of "God" who in reality is man, because all we know about god was written by men. So simple only a simpleton or someone too weak to get through life without the crutch of the promise of a fairy tale doesn't see it.

There has never been a god, allah, Odin etc...series of fairy tales and myths. By that token there is also no devil or hades...people are good or bad and there's reasons for both and none of them about deities influencing them.

The basics of the myths are:

God represents control. There are rules and you can't break them. You are taught you are weak, worthless, owe everything to something you have never seen, everything good is glory to him, everything bad, you fucked up. Its the same as someone who has trapped themselves in an abusive relationship they beat you down, but somehow its your fault and yet you seek his praise. Brilliant.


The Devil-and all 'evil' deities represents free will, having your own thoughts, your own feelings and doing as you wish for better or worse, and doing your own thing is wrong to god.

Wonder which side is the most beneficial to people? To question and make up their own minds or to be a slave so beholden to bullshit you'll kill and torture people in its name? But we know which side benefits those in power, the unquestioning sheeple who now worship red or blue politics in place of god. "Fill in the blank here" says 'fill in this blank" is evil and so it is, and you best believe it.

Always remember, the crusades were not led by Satanists and Christians and Muslims have murdered untold millions throughout history in the name of "holy wars" but God and Allah are so good, praise them!

In Salem the accused were different-or not different and someone screamed witch so they oh, okay, lets torture, rape and kill them-and all in the of god.

You believe in god? You're the one who really believes in hate fueled judgment both back then and now.

There's only one truth here, and its sad the majority falls away from it because more so than ever in this day and age, people don't want to think, they want to belong. But they'll all find out in the end, when they die and there's....nothing.

FWIW I posted that part because if you want to run around with that AV, I figure it falls under either what you might really view things as, or you just think its cool. If its the latter, go to Salem and get yourself a mug that says "People were killed here, awesome!"

 

[SimonDoom]

I studied the subject in college, but it was a long time ago. First I would recommend sorting out what aspects of the period are most important to the story. Theology? The legal system? How people dressed and talked? If you want to master everything it could be an impossibly huge project. Have you read the play The Crucible? For intellectual history you might try perry miller's errand into the wilderness. Or Edmund Morgan's the puritan dilemma. I haven't kept up with historiography in the field.

 

[Gamblnluck]

I know a little bit, but probably nothing Wikipedia couldn't give.

Yep Wikipedia is your friend. I applaud the OP for wanting to do a little research. I hope he integrates his story and does not get lost in the real history. I once wrote a story using Indian characters. I did not want to introduce too much of the culture but it became necessary to the plot. Names of jewelry, custom of wearing it etc. I set my story in the US.

 

[Kelliezgirl]

Specifically, someone with a good knowledge of Colonial America... Massachusetts area... late 1600s... 1692 to be more precise..

Okay, okay, the Salem Witch Trial days! (But if you didn't catch on before I told you, then you probably aren't the history nerd that I'm looking for...)

I am bouncing around a story idea and need some incite. Send me a PM if you are interested. Thanks!

99% of the fictionalized accounts about it have very little connection to what actually happened, so don't over think it.
And don't let the craziness in this thread stop you from writing your story.

 

[MillieDynamite]

A: There were no real witches involved.
B: Most of the trials were about personal revenge or acquiring the property of an accused
C: A Jamancian servent girl (probably a slave) started the whole thing
D: The history doesn't matter that much for a story
E: Giles Corey was pressed to death, and his last words were, "More Weight," as he never confessed and wasn't tried, his property stayed in his family
G: No one was burned at the stake. Their bodies might have been burned (I can't remember. It's been so long ago, and my memory is failing me before my 235 birthday)

I'm looking forward to reading your account.

 

[FromDarkwater]

A. No real witches - check
B. Personal revenge - check
C. Tituba (Jamaican girl)- check
D. History doesn't matter - semi-check (I do need to know the extent of legal matters of the time)
E. Giles Corey - check (at least an event very similar)
F. There is no F
G. No burning at stake - check. (Happy birthday, BTW)

I think I got it all.

 

[MillieDynamite]

Um, that was over two months ago, but thanks, I'm thinking maybe that was my last birthday ever. At least the last one that adds a year. LOL

A. No real witches - check
B. Personal revenge - check
C. Tituba (Jamaican girl)- check
D. History doesn't matter - semi-check (I do need to know the extent of legal matters of the time)
E. Giles Corey - check (at least an event very similar)
F. There is no F
G. No burning at stake - check. (Happy birthday, BTW)

I think I got it all.

 

[MillieDynamite]

There was an F, but it got deleted somehow. At the moment, I cannot remember what it was. Something about Cotton Mather, I think. Oh, yes...

F. Puritans, like John Hathorne, Samuel Sewall, and William Stoughton, came to the New World for religious freedom and then denied it to others

A. No real witches - check
B. Personal revenge - check
C. Tituba (Jamaican girl)- check
D. History doesn't matter - semi-check (I do need to know the extent of legal matters of the time)
E. Giles Corey - check (at least an event very similar)
F. There is no F
G. No burning at stake - check. (Happy birthday, BTW)

I think I got it all.

Edit: I had the wrong clergyman. Yikes.

 

[Kumquatqueen]

Draft your story. Then start a new thread with your questions, and relevant geeks will come out of the woodwork with comments and pointers if not answers.

I did the Crucible in my last year of school, seen it a couple times, and have some knowledge of the religious/political/social climate of the UK at the time, resulting in relevant groups being kicked out of the country, trying to settle in the Netherlands, and then flouncing off to America.

Fun fact: there's several areas of outer London which only got their first pubs in the 90s, because they were settled by
Christian groups who were banished from London in the 1600s and settled down where they were first allowed to stop, and kept the areas dry for the next 300 years.

 

[Duleigh]

Send me a PM if you are interested. Thanks!

Not me, that particular portion of US history has become so corrupted that finding an exact flavor for what happened is almost impossible. Every group sees it with their own filters and that opinion riddled morass becomes fact. One thing is for sure, during this period, mother England left the colonies on their own and this is where the America sense of freedom and independence was born. 100 years later when King George tried to squeeze the colonies things came to a boiling point.