John Glenn: 1921-2016

[Lancecastor]

Glenn also had a big pile of election debts that eventually were "forgiven" by the fed elections poohbahs.

Remember, he was also a Mason, so you get what, 3 bailouts with them?

 

[Colonel Hogan]

Even more could we use a NASA as ambitious as it was in the '60s. Heroes will show up when there's something heroic for them to do.

This is what ambition gets you when it is not tempered by appropriate caution.

Fourteen people died in the Shuttle program which never achieved its primary mission of being a reliable, quick turn around low orbit delivery system. Which is why we don't have it today.

It is said "it is better to be lucky than good." In human space travel, you better be both, but only a fool would press his ambition to increase his reliance on luck in the environment of space. The shuttle program did that needlessly.

Besides, John Glenn is no more a hero because he was one of the first in space than later astronauts were and still are simply because the technology has been refined.

That's not to disparage John Glenn. It's to disparage your misplaced call for "ambition" to produce "heroism."

You want to see a more ambitious NASA. Doing what? Going back to the moon? Why? Would lunar astronauts be seen as heroic as Neil Armstrong if current astronauts labor anonymously in Earth orbit? Hell, I'll bet you most Americans could not name three people who walked on the moon other than Armstrong and Aldrin. So what would be the point?

Manned flight to Mars? People are working on it. But do you have any idea of the order of magnitude of difficulty in a space mission whose duration is measured in excess of a year compared to one which takes a week?

Grow up. Heroes cross the threshold of exploration. Once that threshold is crossed, more of the same is not viewed as heroic. And with regard to manned space exploration, those thresholds very quickly promise to vastly exceed something as ignorantly pedestrian as mere ambition.

 

[Lancecastor]

Interesting thoughts, Colonel.

I think it's a shame Kennedy decided to make Glenn the Space Age Poster Boy and ground him from going to the moon.

Ultimately I think Glenn's biggest accomplishment was 73 years of marriage...he should have gotten a medal for that.

 

[KingOrfeo]

You want to see a more ambitious NASA. Doing what?

Establishing a permanent human presence in space -- "permanent" in the sense that significant numbers of civilians will go to earn their livings there, spend their whole lives there, and raise their children there. There is no physical reason why the human race cannot survive another 10 billion years -- if we break our dependency on one planet's natural ecosystem for survival.

The reason that hasn't happened yet is that there is, as yet, no economic incentive for it. Apart from communications satellites, there is nothing, as yet, that can be done more profitably in space than on Earth, and few people will be willing to colonize space and spend the rest of their lives sealed in a canned life-support system just for some concept as abstract and impersonal as "racial survival," there has to be a profit motive. What we need is a Manhattan-Project scale R&D program to find some such thing. At a stage where the profit potential does not yet exist, a government agency like NASA can spearhead the effort -- and then, once something practical is accomplished, private industry can move in on it and reap the profits. That's been done many times before in American economic history.

 

[ifrtbttrflys]

www.gofundme.com

 

[Phelia]

Awww. I remember he came to visit my elementary school. It was a very exciting, happy moment in my childhood - I've always been a spacehead.

 

[PeteHulbert37]

Awww. I remember he came to visit my elementary school. It was a very exciting, happy moment in my childhood - I've always been a spacehead.

Now there's a visual!

 

[spacekowboy]

Awww. I remember he came to visit my elementary school. It was a very exciting, happy moment in my childhood - I've always been a spacehead.

Man, my school sucked. The only person we got to meet was the damned D.A.R.E. officer.

 

[Conager]

Establishing a permanent human presence in space -- "permanent" in the sense that significant numbers of civilians will go to earn their livings there, spend their whole lives there, and raise their children there. There is no physical reason why the human race cannot survive another 10 billion years -- if we break our dependency on one planet's natural ecosystem for survival.

The reason that hasn't happened yet is that there is, as yet, no economic incentive for it. Apart from communications satellites, there is nothing, as yet, that can be done more profitably in space than on Earth, and few people will be willing to colonize space and spend the rest of their lives sealed in a canned life-support system just for some concept as abstract and impersonal as "racial survival," there has to be a profit motive. What we need is a Manhattan-Project scale R&D program to find some such thing. At a stage where the profit potential does not yet exist, a government agency like NASA can spearhead the effort -- and then, once something practical is accomplished, private industry can move in on it and reap the profits. That's been done many times before in American economic history.

All but the weightless part has been done. It's called Biosphere 2. Why on Earth would you need to leave a perfectly serviceable planet to determine if it's possible to live elsewhere? That's really just as dumb as jumping out of a perfectly good airplane.

For every accomplishment like you describe there are hundreds of failed government sponsered projects and programs. Solyndra ring a bell?

 

[Colonel Hogan]

Awww. I remember he came to visit my elementary school. It was a very exciting, happy moment in my childhood - I've always been a spacehead.

Oh, my God!! You just reminded me of something I had forgotten. I got to participate in a high school press conference where Colonel Glenn appeared before a group of reporters and editors from local high school newspapers. I was a junior at the time.

I was too shy to ask any questions during the actual press conference, but afterwards while the other kids were hounding him for autographs, I pressed in and asked him whatever had happened to Project Mercury's plans to land the space capsule by use of a Rogallo wing (forerunner to modern day hang gliders) rather than standard parachutes? I had read about it in some news report many years before. He simply said it had proved to be unfeasible, and didn't provide any further details.

I thought it was a good question and I always regretted not asking it during the press conference itself. It was far more substantive than the "How does it feel to be weightless" crap the other kids were asking.

On the other hand, I sort of got a minor 'scoop.'

 

[Plane_Guy]

"Godspeed John Glenn."
Clear skies and tailwinds Sir.

 

[Colonel Hogan]

All but the weightless part has been done. It's called Biosphere 2. Why on Earth would you need to leave a perfectly serviceable planet to determine if it's possible to live elsewhere? That's really just as dumb as jumping out of a perfectly good airplane.

For every accomplishment like you describe there are hundreds of failed government sponsered projects and programs. Solyndra ring a bell?

Because it never occurs to these space colonization numbskulls that mastering the technology that could allow us to "break our dependency on one planet's natural ecosystem for survival" could actually be used to ensure our survival on the planet we are already on. Under the most extreme ecological catastrophe one could envision for planet Earth, you could literally build entire domed cities on the ocean floors cheaper, easier and far quicker than you could construct the same facilities on the moon or Mars.

As I've said many times, if the Earth was to lose every molecule of breathable oxygen and every last trace of water; if this globe were to literally become as desolate as the moon or Mars.................why the holy fuck would you want to go to the moon or Mars to start over?? Why not the Mojave, Antarctica or the Marianas Trench?

These are the same people who accuse us naysayers as "lacking vision."

 

[OldJourno]

Not only still alive, at 96, but went shopping for groceries because she said a lot of people will be stopping by the house.

Said on the news they met in nursery school.

Yep. He was 22, she was 4.

 

[Colonel Hogan]

Yep. He was 22, she was 4.

I must be missing something in the transmission. Say again, "Friendship 7."

 

[Conager]

Oh, my God!! You just reminded me of something I had forgotten. I got to participate in a high school press conference where Colonel Glenn appeared before a group of reporters and editors from local high school newspapers. I was a junior at the time.

I was too shy to ask any questions during the actual press conference, but afterwards while the other kids were hounding him for autographs, I pressed in and asked him whatever had happened to Project Mercury's plans to land the space capsule by use of a Rogallo wing (forerunner to modern day hang gliders) rather than standard parachutes? I had read about it in some news report many years before. He simply said it had proved to be unfeasible, and didn't provide any further details.

I thought it was a good question and I always regretted not asking it during the press conference itself. It was far more substantive than the "How does it feel to be weightless" crap the other kids were asking.

On the other hand, I sort of got a minor 'scoop.'

Barry Goldwater came to my Junior High. I know I didn't even attend the assembly and I'm not sure why not. I think I was absent that day or something I remember being disappointed about that. In Scouts for some badge or another you had to write a letter to government official I chose Barry Goldwater. I had no idea what to write to him about but my dad suggested ironically in this day and age that I write him a letter about abolishing the Electoral College. I got a nice letter back from him telling me why that was a bad idea. I wish I still had the letter but it's gone with all of my personal memorabilia.

 

[Colonel Hogan]

Barry Goldwater came to my Junior High. I know I didn't even attend the assembly and I'm not sure why not. I think I was absent that day or something I remember being disappointed about that. In Scouts for some badge or another you had to write a letter to government official I chose Barry Goldwater. I had no idea what to write to him about but my dad suggested ironically in this day and age that I write him a letter about abolishing the Electoral College. I got a nice letter back from him telling me why that was a bad idea. I wish I still had the letter but it's gone with all of my personal memorabilia.

It's too bad that letter got away from you. You could have quoted it here and enlightened a whole new generation of numbnuts.

 

[trysail]

All but the weightless part has been done. It's called Biosphere 2. Why on Earth would you need to leave a perfectly serviceable planet to determine if it's possible to live elsewhere? That's really just as dumb as jumping out of a perfectly good airplane.

For every accomplishment like you describe there are hundreds of failed government sponsered projects and programs. Solyndra ring a bell?

Because it never occurs to these space colonization numbskulls that mastering the technology that could allow us to "break our dependency on one planet's natural ecosystem for survival" could actually be used to ensure our survival on the planet we are already on. Under the most extreme ecological catastrophe one could envision for planet Earth, you could literally build entire domed cities on the ocean floors cheaper, easier and far quicker than you could construct the same facilities on the moon or Mars.

As I've said many times, if the Earth was to lose every molecule of breathable oxygen and every last trace of water; if this globe were to literally become as desolate as the moon or Mars.................why the holy fuck would you want to go to the moon or Mars to start over?? Why not the Mojave, Antarctica or the Marianas Trench?

These are the same people who accuse us naysayers as "lacking vision."

It's too bad that letter got away from you. You could have quoted it here and enlightened a whole new generation of numbnuts.

☝

★★★★★




Refreshing.
Informed.
Intelligent.
...and, thus, rare.



​

 

[about_average]

I just saw on the news that Glenn flew fighter cover in the pacific for combat missions flown by Charles Lindberg.
I didn't know that.

 

[about_average]

All but the weightless part has been done. It's called Biosphere 2. Why on Earth would you need to leave a perfectly serviceable planet to determine if it's possible to live elsewhere? That's really just as dumb as jumping out of a perfectly good airplane.

True.
Parachutes were never tested by jumping out of a plane with one.
And we all know the military never does jump training for paratroopers/special forces other than by dropping them from towers.

 

[about_average]

Because it never occurs to these space colonization numbskulls that mastering the technology that could allow us to "break our dependency on one planet's natural ecosystem for survival" could actually be used to ensure our survival on the planet we are already on. Under the most extreme ecological catastrophe one could envision for planet Earth, you could literally build entire domed cities on the ocean floors cheaper, easier and far quicker than you could construct the same facilities on the moon or Mars.

Ignoring all the other reasons for bases, the idea for space colonization isn't about saving the entire human race, or even a significant portion of it.
Yes, ocean bottom domed cities could protect against a lot of disasters, except

“One of the major threats to intelligent life in our universe is the high probability of an asteroid colliding with inhabited planets," Hawking said.

As for ocean domes vs domes on the moon, there's a fairly significant design differences between something designed to withstand 15,000psi external pressure and 14psi internal pressure

 

[Colonel Hogan]

I just saw on the news that Glenn flew fighter cover in the pacific for combat missions flown by Charles Lindberg.
I didn't know that.

I just saw that, too, and I didn't know it either. That was the coolest story, and to think it came about because the reporter just pulled the Lindbergh question out of his ass at a social meeting with Glenn because he couldn't think of anything else to say.

Absolutely fascinating.

 

[Colonel Hogan]

Ignoring all the other reasons for bases, the idea for space colonization isn't about saving the entire human race, or even a significant portion of it.

Well, for a lot of people, it most certainly IS. But if we go with your view -- that space colonization is just the natural consequence of human evolutionary steps (unless I'm unintentionally misrepresenting your view) -- then there is certainly no compelling need for a government agency like NASA to launch a crash program to speed up the effort, is there?

Yes, ocean bottom domed cities could protect against a lot of disasters, except

As for ocean domes vs domes on the moon, there's a fairly significant design differences between something designed to withstand 15,000psi external pressure and 14psi internal pressure

Yes, there is quite a difference. Just like there's quite a difference when you are being constantly peppered with space rocks (as we ARE) in having 60+ miles of atmospheric gasses over your head (perhaps supplemented by a few hundred feet of solid water) versus having, in the case of the moon, NOTHING AT ALL, and in the case of Mars, not a whole hell of a lot more.

Guess it all depends on what hazards you want your shelter to protect you from. That seems to me an increasingly important design consideration when one starts entertaining the idea of moving millions of miles away from home.

Besides, as we all know, the longer the trip the more it tends to become as dangerous as the destination.

 

[about_average]

Well, for a lot of people, it most certainly IS. But if we go with your view -- that space colonization is just the natural consequence of human evolutionary steps (unless I'm unintentionally misrepresenting your view) -- then there is certainly no compelling need for a government agency like NASA to launch a crash program to speed up the effort, is there?

I would hardly call virtually no activity towards a lunar base in 44 years a "crash program".
You've, for the most part, not misconstrued what I meant. I would really hope the human race survives. Me personally? Not so much. My survival chances with either "solution" are pretty much none to infinitesimal.

Yes, there is quite a difference. Just like there's quite a difference when you are being constantly peppered with space rocks (as we ARE) in having 60+ miles of atmospheric gasses over your head (perhaps supplemented by a few hundred feet of solid water) versus having, in the case of the moon, NOTHING AT ALL, and in the case of Mars, not a whole hell of a lot more.

Guess it all depends on what hazards you want your shelter to protect you from. That seems to me an increasingly important design consideration when one starts entertaining the idea of moving millions of miles away from home.

Besides, as we all know, the longer the trip the more it tends to become as dangerous as the destination.

I don't think we'd have developed better terrestrial navigation solutions if everyone had refused to sail until we'd invented the sextant.
A pretty good number of invented solutions used for space travel problems were invented because of the issues faced in space travel.
IMO saying we shouldn't do something because we don't have a solution for a problem we might encounter would lead to very little ever getting done.

 

[Disgustipated]

Unless there's a viable solution to folks living in space or another planet or whatever, the Space Program is a futile clusterfuck of a money drain.


Also, McGriff the Crime Dog came to our school so there.

 

[about_average]

Unless there's a viable solution to folks living in space or another planet or whatever, the Space Program is a futile clusterfuck of a money drain.

People have been living in space, continuously, for 16 years.