John Engelman, come on down.

Chobham

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You've made yourself quite clear with regard to the black community in the US and the world in general. You've cited research to bolster your assertions. All in all you've made a strong case for YOUR point of view. Further the counters to your assertions have been weak at best. A great many of the better counter arguments have been based on culture and those arguments are not without merit.

Before I get into the cultural issue let's deal with the IQ problem. Virtually every instance of research you cited in based on, or derivative from, Herrnstein's and Murray's seminal work on the subject. And their data sets were a decade old in most instances. That does not make their data stale for the time of publication, but it's most certainly stale today. I don't believe that the data points have moved significantly, but they have moved. However, for the sake of discussion let's assume that what they published is true in all particulars. I assume you know how normal population distributions work and what standard deviations are. If not, consult with your local math department.

Most successful small business people and skilled tradesmen (blue collar) folks fall into the 90 to 110 IQ range. This range would place the upper side of the mean and the lower side of the 1st standard deviation, this would be squarely within the reach of the black community. As we move up the standard deviation window we get into even higher potential levels of achievement. The point here is that the mean does NOT define the whole. If we are to look at the white and Asian population one standard deviation down the ladder we find that they are squarely in the black populations mean. The exception here is the Hasidic Jews in which case we have to go two standard deviations down. So even if we take Herrnsein's and Murray's word at face value at the minimum 40%+ of the black population are quite capable of leading productive lives.

Next I'm going to geography and genetics. Sub-Saharan Africa is a shit hole in virtually all respects. There are no reliably navigable rivers into the interior. Human lives are short (Tsetse Fly and Malaria). There are no beasts of burden (Tsetse Fly). And there was no real agriculture (crappy soil). Life was tribal, local, short, brutal and focused on day to day survival. There was no opportunity for the evolution of anything approaching the civilizations that arose in Europe, Asia, or the Americas. Geography and climate was, and still is, not working for the greater part of sub-Saharan Africa. The skills, and intelligence, required for a stable and robust civilization were never allowed to develop. Advanced civilization requires selective breeding. In some cultures this is achieved by 'arranged marriages' in others by social class distinctions. Regardless of the method this 'selective breeding' did occur. And to an extent it still is occurring. Sub-Saharan Africa, being without an advanced civilization, never benefited from that process. From an evolutionary standpoint they are at least 1000 years behind.

Now to the cultural aspects. Before I dive into this I recommend that you read "Black Rednecks and White Liberals" by Thomas Sowell. Now for a tale of two island chains. The US Virgin Islands and the British Virgin Islands. The US Virgin Islands are a crime ridden nightmare, no one of sound mind would ever visit those islands. Yet within sight of the US Virgin Island are the British Virgin Islands which are not plagued by crime. Both are black majorities of slave stock. Why the difference? Some years ago I was seated beside a US Virgin Island Senator. We had a long discussion regarding what was going on. He was educating me and I listened. It seems that starting in the late 70's early 80's "educators" from the US began to "educate" the population that they were oppressed victims and not responsible for their lot in life. Apparently the British didn't make the same mistake. Overall blacks from the West Indies, and Africa, do better than our home grown blacks. I refuse to believe that we got the "stupid" ones.

On politics. The democrat party has built a coalition of "tribes." Their entire focus is to appeal to various minority groups in order to build a majority. Identity politics (tribalism) is a loser and does nothing to move a nation forward. I bring this up because in spite of you proclaiming to be a democrat, you are doing your best to alienate one of the parties key voting groups. An activity that seems quite paradoxical to me. I don't doubt your sincerity in what you post, merely wondering whether you've thought it through to a cohesive whole and where you're going with it and what you plan to do about it?
 
Honestly, Ish?
As a non-Anglo, I find all this preening and demeaning re IQ tests that AngloSaxs do, re IQ tests to be caricatural or annoying at best.

mainly because I found out that you AngloSaxs fucks placed yourselves on top,
anwhile placing most Eastern Europeans in the mediocre range

despite the fact that EE shools don't do achievement and IQ tests
and despite the fact that we routinely outclass other countries in Maths and Chess.
Transplant any average EE student into an Anglo school, and they'll outwit the locals at Maths.
 
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Why don't you start instead by describing what do IQ tests entail, in your opinion
for example which abilities tested are innate vs. acquired or taught
 
Germany and China are on top.
The only things that those countries excel in are a lack in imagination, and hard work.
 
Honestly, Ish?
As a non-Anglo, I find all this preening and demeaning re IQ tests that AngloSaxs do, re IQ tests to be caricatural or annoying at best.

mainly because I found out that you AngloSaxs fucks placed yourselves on top,
anwhile placing most Eastern Europeans in the mediocre range

despite the fact that EE shools don't do achievement and IQ tests
and despite the fact that we routinely outclass other countries in Maths and Chess.
Transplant any average EE student into an Anglo school, and they'll outwit the locals at Maths.
I really give a rats ass as to what you believe to be true.

Your response indicates to me that;

1; You didn't read the post with any linguistic precision at all. You read it with your own bias.

2; You continually reference these "We". Who are they and why aren't those "We" leading the free world?

You keep throwing out bull shit as if you have something to defend. What is that that you're defending? The research is out there, has been for decades. I'm sorry, but it seems to me that you are trying to blame any particular failures you've had in your life on someone else.
 
you often write fantastic threads, I'm usually a big fan

but these IQ test threads that you're doing every year
are getting a tad repetitive

Why not start Craniometry and Physical Anthropology threads instead?
 
John has a limited number of post responses to paste from his screed, so your wait time could be longer.
 
His conclusions have always been based on cherry picked data. John has never even looked at the source data to confirm validity of the pictures he stole from some random website, much less read the conclusions of the studies by the authors themselves. He has a folder with pictures and quotes that were taken from third party websites that support his "argument" and uses that copypasta over and over and over

He's been challenged in depth by multiple people and typically responds with "what have I said that isn't true?"

While I commend your effort - just because someone makes an argument doesn't mean they are owed a response to that argument. Though it will be fun to watch him squirm in response.
 
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John has a limited number of post responses to paste from his screed, so your wait time could be longer.
I have posted much documentation for my assertions. My detractors have posted nothing but insults, name calling, obscene words, and implied death threats, along with a few logical fallacies. :cool:
 
Why don't you start instead by describing what do IQ tests entail, in your opinion
for example which abilities tested are innate vs. acquired or taught
IQ tests measure the ability to learn complex skills quickly and well. For a century they have accurately predicted academic and economic success, as well as other desirable outcomes in life.
 
Strange that he avoids the initial post.....wonder why
 
Scientology also publishes “much documentation.”

So does the Flat Earth Society.

We don’t laugh at them because we can’t “refute their assertions”.

We laugh at them because they are fools.
You'll won't be laughing when you walk off the edge of the earth.


:nana:
 
Just somt points to consider:

Human lives were short until whitey arrived. Whitey developed medicines for the diseases he found. Negroes never did. Whitey then gave darkie a longer life.

Whites eradicated the tse tse fly and even started raising cattle in zambia, which is ideal farming country once this was addressed. Whitey also eliminated malaria from many areas.

If the soil is so crappy why did whitey arrive and make farms every where and grow so much food it is exported to europe and elsewhere. Whitey used his knowledge and scient to adapt to the soils.

if skills were never allowed to develop, who stopped them? Not whitey. he didnt penetrate into most of africa until the 1900s. What have they been doing the past 5000 years? No whitey was there to hinder them creating an advanced civilisation. It was their own lethargy.

Here is what really held them back and nothing to do with whitey: they never invented the wheel, preventing transport trade and commerce. They never diverted, impounded or pumped water, which egyptians did 2000 BC. This prevented commerical agriculture and condemned them to subsistence and hunter gatherer. They never invented a written language so were prehistoric. This prvented spreading of knowledge except by orators reciting by rote.

And what stopped all this? Could it be average IQ of below 80? What moron whitey with an IQ of 80 makes a contribution to science?

Your last sentence you left out a 0. They are not 1000 years behind they are least 10 000 years behind.
You forgot to mention Zimbabwe, the bread basket of Africa until Bobby staged his "peoples revolution." The post Tsetse fly transformation of sub-Saharan Africa is all recent history that changes little of what I said.

If you don't have agriculture, you don't have (and won't have) advanced civilization. Food surpluses are the foundation of civilization. If you think it was bad before watch what happens over the next two years. Starvation is going to become the norm and the reason isn't going to have a damn thing to do with "climate change."
 
Ishmael would have loved this.

He predicted pretty much all of it decades ago, back when Rob had hair.
 
If political horse shit was a tangible asset there'd be no shortage of fertilizer.
 
Scientology also publishes “much documentation.”

So does the Flat Earth Society.

We don’t laugh at them because we can’t “refute their assertions”.

We laugh at them because they are fools.
What have I said that is not true? Post it. Let's discuss it.
 
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