Idea for a contest

[ShelbyDawn57]

Vodka, gin, rum, or tequila???

 

[lovecraft68]

How about an alternative idea? A group of authors, big names, not people like me. Offer people the chance to write a story featuring one or more of their characters.

Instead of the uneven playing field of ratings, the group of authors review submissions and pick a Gold / Silver / Bronze.

Could that work? Maybe logistically complex. And a lot of work for any author volunteering.

Emily

This has nothing to do with you, or anyone else here, personally but I'm going to say this:

No one cares about author sponsored challenges outside of this forum. How many "outsiders' to the forum get in on these? Very few if any in some cases. For that matter even the site sponsored contests, the forum members make up at least a third of most of them, meaning most authors on the site don't bother with those either.

So, for the most part these ideas are being pitched to this small community, and I can tell you from experience, something like this is begging for trouble.

Contrary to what many will say in their posts, this is not a thick skinned lot. You mishandle someone's baby and cue drama. If its two authors agreeing to do this on their own, its one thing, trying to pull people in who are casually "Yeah, okay, I'll try it" is a different game.

That and being honest, I have no interest in anyone's characters here, and highly doubt anyone has interest in mine, and I have no issue with that. This obsession some people have with other people's works is foreign to me.

 

[Bamagan]

It sounds interesting, but then I remember what JJ Abrams did to Star Trek/Wars, and...

 

[Djmac1031]

I’ve already done this. Buy only with friends, for example:

1. The Devil And Angel Em - by @Djmac1031
2. Baby It’s Cold Outside - by @EStaccato

And at least one forthcoming story.

I’d be willing to let people borrow some of my characters. I might stipulate no I/T and no NC/R. But otherwise.

Emily

Collaboration efforts are VERY different than just allowing a random author access to your characters and created worlds.

Our work together on our various Angels & Demons stories ( you contributing ideas to mine and vice versa) means we're both intimately familiar with the characters and the world they inhabit.

To the point where if you wanted to include my character Cozbi in one of your stories, I'd have no objections, because I know you know her.

Would I let anyone else use her? No. Instead I'd encourage them to simply create their own version. Mine can be an inspiration, sure. But it shouldn't be a copycat.

 

[lovecraft68]

It sounds interesting, but then I remember what JJ Abrams did to Star Trek/Wars, and...

Or that moron Green and what he did to Halloween and the Exorcist

 

[lovecraft68]

Collaboration efforts are VERY different than just allowing a random author access to your characters and created worlds.

This is pretty much my point. Two people deciding to do this on their own as a friendly challenge or just fun is one thing, making it a contest and having someone you don't really know doing it will be a problem.

 

[EmilyMiller]

This has nothing to do with you, or anyone else here, personally but I'm going to say this:

No one cares about author sponsored challenges outside of this forum. How many "outsiders' to the forum get in on these? Very few if any in some cases. For that matter even the site sponsored contests, the forum members make up at least a third of most of them, meaning most authors on the site don't bother with those either.

So, for the most part these ideas are being pitched to this small community, and I can tell you from experience, something like this is begging for trouble.

Contrary to what many will say in their posts, this is not a thick skinned lot. You mishandle someone's baby and cue drama. If its two authors agreeing to do this on their own, its one thing, trying to pull people in who are casually "Yeah, okay, I'll try it" is a different game.

That and being honest, I have no interest in anyone's characters here, and highly doubt anyone has interest in mine, and I have no issue with that. This obsession some people have with other people's works is foreign to me.

I do get all those points.

As a counterexample (and without any of the angst about loved characters being mishandled), my silly “write a story about this AI-generated woman” drew in people from outside AH.

I think it depends on how it’s handled. Of course AH is a tiny bubble. But it’s OK to have fun amongst ourselves.

Maybe I misspoke as to this being an official event. More just something interesting to try.

I realize there are risks and that many may have no interest.

Emily

 

[lovecraft68]

I do get all those points.

As a counterexample (and without any of the angst about loved characters being mishandled), my silly “write a story about this AI-generated woman” drew in people from outside AH.

I think it depends on how it’s handled. Of course AH is a tiny bubble. But it’s OK to have fun amongst ourselves.

Maybe I misspoke as to this being an official event. More just something interesting to try.

I realize there are risks and that many may have no interest.

Emily

But I think write a story about a AI generated woman isn't the same. That woman wasn't created by a specific author in an actual story.

The only difference in our basic takes on this is I've been here a lot longer, and I've seen a lot of things like this backfire due to ego, and who's popular and who's not and all the other things we'd like to think are childish beneath adults...but aren't.

A lot of authors are very defensive when it comes to their work, which is why anyone interested in doing this should be prepared for some backfire.

PSA stated, I'll be off now to be the non joiner cynic I usually am.

 

[SimonDoom]

Not to get all grumpy and negative, but we already have a very crowded plate of contests and challenges. There might be some authors who write so quickly that they can contribute to all of them, but I think they're a minority. I'm not one of them. I think there's a risk of some events cannibalizing others -- like having the Noir event close to the Crime and Punishment event. Maybe others feel differently but I feel like from both an author's and consumer's perspective it's just too much to keep track of.

 

[Djmac1031]

A lot of authors are very defensive when it comes to their work, which is why anyone interested in doing this should be prepared for some backfire.

For me it would depend. If someone wanted to write Part 3 of My Sister's Skincare, I might let them. I never did take that series too seriously and I'd be curious what someone might do with it.

But I'd never let anyone touch my characters like Jenna or Cozbi. They're very close to me and i have very specific ideas and directions for them, and I honestly don't want anyone else messing with that.


There's unfortunately just way too many people with way too many opinions on what should happen in a story, and most of them have no clue about our actual intentions as the original authors.

 

[Bamagan]

I do get all those points.

As a counterexample (and without any of the angst about loved characters being mishandled), my silly “write a story about this AI-generated woman” drew in people from outside AH.

I think it depends on how it’s handled. Of course AH is a tiny bubble. But it’s OK to have fun amongst ourselves.

Maybe I misspoke as to this being an official event. More just something interesting to try.

I realize there are risks and that many may have no interest.

Emily

Perhaps borrowing a leaf from collaborative tabletop RPGs could be effective at making an enjoyable writing game. To wit:
Each author/player would create a character and describe them in 25 words or less (and can choose a character from their written works if they desire to do so). They can then add up to 25 words of additional description to any two other characters, with the caveat that they can't contradict anything previously established about that character.
A similar method could be used to create a shared setting, theme, category, etc. if desired.
Players/authors would then take any of the characters provided and write a story about them, doing their best to adhere to what has been established about them, their setting, and so forth.

 

[Djmac1031]

Not to get all grumpy and negative, but we already have a very crowded plate of contests and challenges. There might be some authors who write so quickly that they can contribute to all of them, but I think they're a minority. I'm not one of them. I think there's a risk of some events cannibalizing others -- like having the Noir event close to the Crime and Punishment event. Maybe others feel differently but I feel like from both an author's and consumer's perspective it's just too much to keep track of.

I know I honestly can't keep up with all of them. Nor do I want to.

I'll write for a contest / challenge IF I have an idea that fits. But I certainly can't just force a story to happen just because there's yet another contest.

 

[EmilyMiller]

But I think write a story about a AI generated woman isn't the same. That woman wasn't created by a specific author in an actual story.

Of course. That was more about reaching outside the AH bubble.

The only difference in our basic takes on this is I've been here a lot longer, and I've seen a lot of things like this backfire due to ego, and who's popular and who's not and all the other things we'd like to think are childish beneath adults...but aren't.

Can’t argue with that.

A lot of authors are very defensive when it comes to their work, which is why anyone interested in doing this should be prepared for some backfire.

Again agreed. But I’d consider maybe a character that I wasn’t planning on coming back to. Then maybe would be interested, for the same reason I’m not.

PSA stated, I'll be off now to be the non joiner cynic I usually am.

I appreciate the thoughts and I do see the points you are making.

Emily

 

[Devinter]

Anyone able and willing is more than welcome to write the continuation of Girl Cum with the condition that they make at least 50 references to the Author's Hangout per 1000 words written. Just putting it out there!

 

[SimonDoom]

Are we in a democracy here, and nobody told me? Since when does what most people think have any relevance in an argument?


Just as patriotism is the last refuge of a scoundrel, the law often becomes the refuge for those lacking in ethics.

My first thread was about borrowing or stealing ideas without credit. The consensus argued that as long as you change names and other details, and use your own words, it's legally fine to adopt someone else's idea without giving credit. However, I see this as unethical. Unfortunately, many here reuse others' ideas without acknowledging the source.

Many Lit authors, myself included, began their journey as readers inspired by stories they loved. I never considered writing until I encountered a wonderful character whom I felt was wronged by its creator. I left a polite comment expressing my thoughts. Unaware at the time that Lit authors obsessively check their stats, I was surprised when, shortly afterward, I received a rude reply telling me to mind my own business and write my own stories. So I did, posting my first entry a week later. I suppose I should thank the old curmudgeon.

I'm only referring to extreme scenarios where the author has obviously abandoned their work for years or passed away. If someone wishes to continue a forgotten story and the original creator is unreachable, you say let the story die in the name of the law, but I say let the wonderful characters relive; they deserve it. We're not in it for the money; we just wish to honor the original work. If the author miraculously reappears and demands the sequels be taken down, we'll do it. No harm done.

Changing details and posting others' ideas without credit might be legal, but it's a sleazy theft by my standards.

 

[SimonDoom]

Since when does what most people think have any relevance in an argument?

This is a community of authors. It seems to me axiomatic that in a community like this what other authors think is relevant. If you think it's "noble" to write a sequel to another's work without their permission but the great majority of authors disagree with you, it seems to me discourteous, at a minimum, to ignore their perspective. You may disagree.

the law often becomes the refuge for those lacking in ethics.

I can't think of many cases where this is actually true in practice, but even if it sometimes is, it's far more likely to wander into morally questionable ground by saying, "Damn what everybody else thinks; I alone am the arbiter of what's right." That's how sociopaths tend to think.

I never considered writing until I encountered a wonderful character whom I felt was wronged by its creator. I left a polite comment expressing my thoughts. Unaware at the time that Lit authors obsessively check their stats, I was surprised when, shortly afterward, I received a rude reply telling me to mind my own business and write my own stories. So I did, posting my first entry a week later. I suppose I should thank the old curmudgeon.

Sounds like the author in that case could have been more polite about it, because you wrote with no bad intentions, but you did the right and courteous thing by following that exchange by writing your own story. I think it's a situation where even if at a philosophical level you disagree with on this issue with what's "right" and "wrong," you should be courteous, and the courteous thing is to ask permission first.

My first thread was about borrowing or stealing ideas without credit. The consensus argued that as long as you change names and other details, and use your own words, it's legally fine to adopt someone else's idea without giving credit. However, I see this as unethical. Unfortunately, many here reuse others' ideas without acknowledging the source.

This is a thorny issue both in theory and in practice. Copyright law does not protect an author's ideas; it protects the author's original creative expression of an idea. If you take ideas from someone else's fictional work at a sufficiently generalized and abstract level, you are under no legal or moral obligation (according to custom and practice and the law) to get permission or give credit. Plagiarism principles regulate the ability of people, usually academics, to publish works that appear to claim the ideas of others as their own. It's not at all clear how this applies in the context of fiction, if at all. You may think it does, but I'm not aware of any tradition that backs you up on that. When I wrote a "mailgirl" story, for example, I felt no moral compunction to acknowledge others who had written mailgirl stories, although I did anyway, because I wanted readers who liked the idea to know about others who wrote those stories. But I still don't see it as an ethical issue because nobody has a proprietary right in abstracted artistic ideas. Creative ideas, at a sufficiently abstract and general level, are matters of public domain, to be shared by all without obstruction.

I'm only referring to extreme scenarios where the author has obviously abandoned their work for years or passed away. If someone wishes to continue a forgotten story and the original creator is unreachable, you say let the story die in the name of the law, but I say let the wonderful characters relive; they deserve it. We're not in it for the money; we just wish to honor the original work. If the author miraculously reappears and demands the sequels be taken down, we'll do it. No harm done.

But what if authors DO regard it as harm done to their works and their integrity? Shouldn't that be respected? If this was a tiny minority view, then I might agree with your position, but I think it's the majority view: authors don't want you to finish their works unless they have given you express permission. Ethics aside, the courteous thing is to honor the author's request and not write derivative works without the author's express permission.

 

[AwkwardlySet]

All the problems could be avoided, once again, if the event were about writing a story "inspired" by some story. If even that gives cause for caution, the story in this sense could be any classical tale or even character.
Write the best story inspired by Snow White and the Seven Dwarves. Write the best story with Peter Pan as the main character, or Captain Hook even. Continue the story of Alice from Wonderland with this twist. Write the best spinoff with Van Helsing or Count Dracula as the main character. There are many possibilities, assuming there is will.

 

[SimonDoom]

You're essentially suggesting it's okay to steal others' premises without credit, as long as you tweak the characters' names. OR just let the story die. And this is because it's legal and accepted?

I'm not suggesting exploiting the work of others or monetizing it. I suggest paying homage to a work that would otherwise fade away by writing an original sequel under the firmament of this supportive and nurturing community.

The word "steal" only makes sense if we first accept the premise that people have proprietary rights in basic creative ideas. I don't accept that. The law doesn't accept that. Generally speaking, the world of fiction has never accepted that. At a certain level of generality and abstraction, creative ideas are part of the public domain. We are free to use them as we see fit. I can't steal something from you if you never owned it in the first place.

I understand what you are saying, but you are not taking into account that many, many authors don't agree with you, and would regard it as unethical or at a minimum discourteous for you to continue their stories without their permission, even if they're gone for good or dead.

 

[8letters]

You’d need the permission of the original authors. They own the copyright.

You've inadvertently wandered into a minefield. The question often arises here, "Can I continue someone else's story?" and the answer is always, "Not unless you have explicit permission from the original author."

Even if they are dead or they've left Lit forever, if you don't have permission, don't do it.

A written work is the property of the writer.
For somebody else to continue, or rewrite then they would need the permission of the owner / original writer.

I love this. This is like someone arguing that the world is flat. I suggest you wander over to the "Celebrities and Fan Fiction" category before saying that someone needs permission from the copyright holder before publishing a derivative work on Literotica.

There are lots of stories on Literotica that are continuations or rewrites of other Literotica stories. I've mentioned that fact numerous times. Yet somehow, the same people keep memory-holing that piece of information.

Based on the stories that I have seen, the rules of the site seem to be:
* You should try to contact the original author for permission. If they don't respond...
* You should give attribution to the author at the start of your story
* If the original author requests that your story be taken down, it will be taken down

If you wouldn't continue someone else's story, that's an understandable position. I have no interest in continuing another author's work. But, please, don't confuse your personal ethics with the law or the site rules.

 

[ElectricBlue]

If you wouldn't continue someone else's story, that's an understandable position. I have no interest in continuing another author's work. But, please, don't confuse your personal ethics with the law or the site rules.

This, coming from the guy who redefined plagiarism. That's ballsy.

 

[Voboy]

“To be independent of public opinion is the first formal condition of achieving anything great.” ---Hegel

"I'm so smart, I read and understand Hegel." ---O. Wilde

Quoting dead people doesn't strengthen any argument much.

 

[Cagivagurl]

I love this. This is like someone arguing that the world is flat. I suggest you wander over to the "Celebrities and Fan Fiction" category before saying that someone needs permission from the copyright holder before publishing a derivative work on Literotica.

There are lots of stories on Literotica that are continuations or rewrites of other Literotica stories. I've mentioned that fact numerous times. Yet somehow, the same people keep memory-holing that piece of information.

Based on the stories that I have seen, the rules of the site seem to be:
* You should try to contact the original author for permission. If they don't respond...
* You should give attribution to the author at the start of your story
* If the original author requests that your story be taken down, it will be taken down

If you wouldn't continue someone else's story, that's an understandable position. I have no interest in continuing another author's work. But, please, don't confuse your personal ethics with the law or the site rules.

I believe I said that it was my opinion only.
Yes, I believe it is unethical to steal another persons art. Their creations, and although I am no expert, not claim to be.
There are laws involved. Copyright is a thing.
The fact that people have done something, doesn't make it right.
Whether you agree or disagree, two wrongs don't make a right...
Of course that is my opinion, and just as valid as yours.
I have no problems with works being continued or rewritten, so long as you have the permission of the original writer.
The fact you have tried and failed to contact said writer, is not permission...
I have seen that quoted on occasion and it annoys me.
If you get no response from the creator, then you have nothing. IMO..

Cagivagurl

 

[Voboy]

Quite apart from the ethics, I'm not sure how a person can call themselves "creative" if they allow another person to do the legwork.

Why would any self-respecting writer want to piggyback off another? Might as well be a cover band.

 

[8letters]

Quite apart from the ethics, I'm not sure how a person can call themselves "creative" if they allow another person to do the legwork.

Why would any self-respecting writer want to piggyback off another? Might as well be a cover band.

I think the desire is to achieve closure with the story. A reader becomes enamored of the characters in a story, and they want those characters to reach an ending, an ending the original author isn't going to provide.

I would think extending someone else's story would be very intellectually challenging. You only have hints as to where the story is going to go. It would be like jumping into the cockpit mid-flight and having to land the plane.

Edit: An interesting case is Bang Baby Redux. A reader felt that a series was missing an incredibly hot scene, so wrote it. From the story:

A few years ago, syd_v63, another author on this site, wrote a very good series called BANG BABY BANG. I found part 3 of the story to be the most exciting, but was disappointed that the ending stopped abruptly before getting to the action. Imagine my disappointment when part 4 picked the story up several days after part 3! So I forgot about it until I came across it today, and I thought, I bet I'm not the only person who wants to know what happened between Rachel, her son, and her husband in that kitchen. I have written it so that you can follow it easily without reading anything earlier, but if you would like more context to this story, read Part 3 of BANG BABY BANG by syd_v63 first. As a matter of fact, I recommend the whole series. But this is how I imagined that entire erotic encounter in the kitchen playing out.

 

[Voboy]

I think the desire is to achieve closure with the story.

I understand that desire.

But it's not "THE story." It belongs to someone.

A reader becomes enamored of the characters in a story, and they want those characters to reach an ending, an ending the original author isn't going to provide.

So be it. Life is full of disappointments. That reader can move on and write their own material.

I would think extending someone else's story would be very intellectually challenging. You only have hints as to where the story is going to go. It would be like jumping into the cockpit mid-flight and having to land the plane.

Oh, no doubt.

Imagine how much more challenging it would be to do the same thing, PLUS handle the takeoff...