How does present tense work?

[joy_of_cooking]

I'm trying to write in present tense for the first time, and it turns out I don't know how the various verb tenses relate to each other.

Here's a probably correct paragraph in past tense:

She had never been pretty, of course. That would have been counter-productive for her work. Possibly even dangerous. But her features, however plain, had always had a certain uncanny perfection to them. Now her hair was a little limp, a little frizzy. Her skin was uneven, and there were slight bags under her eyes.

And here's an attempt at translating it into present tense:

She has never been pretty, of course. That would have been counter-productive for her work. Possibly even dangerous. But her features, however plain, have always had a certain uncanny perfection to them. Now her hair is a little limp, a little frizzy. Her skin is uneven, and there are slight bags under her eyes.

Anyone have a good resource for this? I've found stuff trying to teach me how to conjugate for a tense, but not anything so far showing me the transitions between different tenses, or even reliably examples of long narration in present tense.

Back in school, one of my teachers drew a fantastic diagram. It was a time line, with the present marked in the middle, and stacked above it were marks in different colors indicating when things happened for each tense. E.g., the preterite ("he walked") was a single mark in the past, indicating an event begun and completed in the past, whereas the pluperfect ("he had walked") was an arrow from a time in the past to an earlier time in the past, etc. Anyone know what I could google to find this diagram again?

 

[Bamagan]

I'm trying to write in present tense for the first time, and it turns out I don't know how the various verb tenses relate to each other.

Here's a probably correct paragraph in past tense:



And here's an attempt at translating it into present tense:



Anyone have a good resource for this? I've found stuff trying to teach me how to conjugate for a tense, but not anything so far showing me the transitions between different tenses, or even reliably examples of long narration in present tense.

Back in school, one of my teachers drew a fantastic diagram. It was a time line, with the present marked in the middle, and stacked above it were marks in different colors indicating when things happened for each tense. E.g., the preterite ("he walked") was a single mark in the past, indicating an event begun and completed in the past, whereas the pluperfect ("he had walked") was an arrow from a time in the past to an earlier time in the past, etc. Anyone know what I could google to find this diagram again?

Verb tense diagram?

 

[Bamagan]

I'm trying to write in present tense for the first time, and it turns out I don't know how the various verb tenses relate to each other.

Here's a probably correct paragraph in past tense:

Also, offhand, I don't think anything in the first version of the paragraph would absolutely need to be changed for tense, since the only part of it that is 'in the present' is the part following the 'now.' Simply changing 'was' to 'is' and 'were' to 'are' would convey that well enough, but even that probably isn't strictly necessary, since 'now' means 'now,' to make a little joke.

 

[SimonDoom]

I'm trying to write in present tense for the first time, and it turns out I don't know how the various verb tenses relate to each other.

Here's a probably correct paragraph in past tense:



And here's an attempt at translating it into present tense:



Anyone have a good resource for this? I've found stuff trying to teach me how to conjugate for a tense, but not anything so far showing me the transitions between different tenses, or even reliably examples of long narration in present tense.

Back in school, one of my teachers drew a fantastic diagram. It was a time line, with the present marked in the middle, and stacked above it were marks in different colors indicating when things happened for each tense. E.g., the preterite ("he walked") was a single mark in the past, indicating an event begun and completed in the past, whereas the pluperfect ("he had walked") was an arrow from a time in the past to an earlier time in the past, etc. Anyone know what I could google to find this diagram again?

You got it right, except "That would have been counterproductive for her work" should be "That would be counterproductive for her work."

Here's the rationale:

"She has never been pretty" is the present perfect tense. You use this when you are writing in the present tense and you wish to indicate a condition ("pretty") that has taken place at an indefinite time in the past relative to the present but may have extended up to the present time.

"Would have been" would be appropriate if using the past tense and the first sentence was in past perfect because it would indicate the condition that might have applied UP TO SOME POINT IN THE INDEFINITE PAST ENDING BEFORE THE PRESENT. It was correct in your first, past tense example. But in this case, since the indefinitely timed thing might continue right up to the present, you can't use "would have been" because "would have been" terminates before the present. It should be "would be."

Does that sound weird? Yes, it might, but it's right. This is one of the reasons why present tense can be awkward. If you do it correctly, you end up writing sentences that are correct but may sound odd. It's far more likely that people will just get it wrong because they don't know how to handle all the related tenses and moods and they write it the way that sounds right to them rather than is right.



These are excellent questions. I see good authors getting these things wrong all the time when they use present tense, which is one of the reasons I think authors should use past tense unless they really know what they are doing.

 

[Altissimus]

How does present tense work?

IMO it doesn't. Not in stories.

There's exceptions, but they're pretty rare.

 

[SimonDoom]

Here's one of the tense charts that Bamagan linked to. It is accurate and helpful, but it does NOT provide specific guidance on sentence two, because sentence two combines present perfect tense (column 2, row 3) with the subjunctive mood, which is different from tense, and this chart doesn't deal with moods. Subjunctive mood is used to indicate something that is conditional. In this case, she's not pretty, but if she WERE pretty, it would be inconvenient. That's a present tense conditional, so "would be" is what you want.

It's like this:

She wasn't pretty, but if she had been pretty, it would have been inconvenient.


She isn't pretty, but if she were pretty, it would be inconvenient.

 

[joy_of_cooking]

Verb tense diagram?

D'oh!

"Would have been" would be appropriate if using the past tense and the first sentence was in past perfect because it would indicate the condition that might have applied UP TO SOME POINT IN THE INDEFINITE PAST ENDING BEFORE THE PRESENT. It was correct in your first, past tense example. But in this case, since the indefinitely timed thing might continue right up to the present, you can't use "would have been" because "would have been" terminates before the present. It should be "would be."

Oh, that's awkward. See, her work did end before the present moment. But that was the line that was supposed to convey that, and I guess it doesn't.

sentence two combines present perfect tense (column 2, row 3) with the subjunctive mood, which is different from tense, and this chart doesn't deal with moods

Yeah, this is the kind of complexity that I'm struggling with.

IMO it doesn't. Not in stories.

There's exceptions, but they're pretty rare.

Yeah...I'm starting to see why people say that.

 

[Bamagan]

Yeah...I'm starting to see why people say that.

And tomorrow, you can accurately say you had been starting to see why people had been saying that.

 

[SimonDoom]

Oh, that's awkward. See, her work did end before the present moment. But that was the line that was supposed to convey that, and I guess it doesn't.

In that case, your line would be fine, but it might be a good idea to add some stuff to make that clearer. It's a lot trickier putting all this stuff together in a coherent way when you start in present tense.

 

[NotWise]

As Simon pointed out, you're aren't writing in present tense and past tense, but in present perfect tense and past perfect tense. I've only used present tense in one story, and that was in dialogue when a woman was relating her sexual fantasies. I kept it simple, but you use what makes it sound the way you want it to sound.

But consider this. You're original "present tense" version was:

She has never been pretty, of course. That would have been counter-productive for her work. Possibly even dangerous. But her features, however plain, have always had a certain uncanny perfection to them. Now her hair is a little limp, a little frizzy. Her skin is uneven, and there are slight bags under her eyes.

The simple present tense version might be:

She isn't pretty, of course. That would be counter-productive for her work. Possibly even dangerous. But her features, however plain, have a certain uncanny perfection to them. Her hair is a little limp, a little frizzy. Her skin is uneven, and there are slight bags under her eyes.

I left out "Now" because that's implied by the tense. It's a few words shorter, and to me it's more direct.

 

[KeithD]

Something that happened in the past still happened in the past when writing in the present tense and still take "in the past:" verbs.

"She had never been pretty, of course. That would have been counter-productive for her work. Possibly even dangerous. But her features, however plain, once had a certain uncanny perfection to them. Now her hair is a little limp, a little frizzy. Her skin is uneven, and there are slight bags under her eyes."

 

[joy_of_cooking]

She isn't pretty, of course. That would be counter-productive for her work. Possibly even dangerous. But her features, however plain, have a certain uncanny perfection to them. Her hair is a little limp, a little frizzy. Her skin is uneven, and there are slight bags under her eyes.

I agree this version is simpler, both to write and to read, but it doesn't accomplish what I need the paragraph to do. The narrator is supposed to be realizing for the first time the difference between the artificial human-like bodies that he has previously seen her wear, and the actually human body she now inhabits.

Unfortunately, I do need to write these sorts of sentences that reference different times. Sticking to simple present tense simplifies the problem too much.

 

[12oclocktales]

The last two sentences are fine. You need to get rid of the haves in the first four.

Ex. She is not pretty and never has been. That is considered counter-productive for her work, maybe even dangerous. Yet her features, however plain, are uncannily perfect.

 

[onehitwanda]

And tomorrow, you can accurately say you had been starting to see why people had been saying that.

get out.

 

[Jackie.Hikaru]

IMO it doesn't. Not in stories.

There's exceptions, but they're pretty rare.

Guess you don't read YA

There's ALOT out there written in present tense these days. But I'm with you, it's hard for me to read present tense.

@joy_of_cooking I think it's a wonderful challenge to try to write something in a different tense but may I also suggest that your first version was not confusing whatsoever to me as a reader?

 

[Bamagan]

get out.

By the time you had typed the above, I had already been gone, but by the time you will have been reading this, you shall have been responsible for my having returned long enough to create this mess plus the below.

Sorry?

 

[onehitwanda]

By the time you had typed the above, I had already been gone, but by the time you will have been reading this, you shall have been responsible for my having returned long enough to create this mess plus the below.

Sorry?

 

[joy_of_cooking]

but may I also suggest that your first version was not confusing whatsoever to me as a reader?

The first version is the past tense one?

I wasn't worried about my past tense narration being confusing so much as hoping that shifting to present tense would help differentiate two parallel threads of narration in a story that starts in medias res. We have the narrator telling someone about what happened to him a while ago, and also experiencing other events in the moment.

 

[joy_of_cooking]

Where do you find these?

How much anime do you watch?

 

[Bamagan]

I retract my tentative apology. Point that somewhere else, please, not all Americans find guns to be cute pets.

 

[SimonDoom]

Something that happened in the past still happened in the past when writing in the present tense and still take "in the past:" verbs.

"She had never been pretty, of course. That would have been counter-productive for her work. Possibly even dangerous. But her features, however plain, once had a certain uncanny perfection to them. Now her hair is a little limp, a little frizzy. Her skin is uneven, and there are slight bags under her eyes."

I like this version. Putting the first sentence in past perfect harmonizes it with the next three sentences. Then there's a shift to the present. It's comprehensible and I think it's more consistent with JOC's intention.

 

[joy_of_cooking]

Something that happened in the past still happened in the past when writing in the present tense and still take "in the past:" verbs.

Thank you, this is helpful. I overlooked it earlier but I like your rewrite.

 

[comegently]

In general, it's best to let characters speak through their actions. In that case some of the tense questions don't arise.
Although the present tense has to be used with care, you hear it all the time in reality crime shows, where the present is used in the sense of the past, especially when there's CCTV footage.

"So Jack's serving a customer at the counter. He doesn't notice Lee sneaking up on him until it's too late, and he's staring down the barrel of the 9mm"

 

[onehitwanda]

How much anime do you watch?

Honestly, very little. Apart from several Studio Ghibli movies (Howl's Moving Castle, Nausicaa, Princess Mononoke) it's really just Robotech and Evangelion.

But there is and always will be a special place in my heart for Asuka.

I'm just really, really good at finding gifs and / or stills that... convey my emotions

 

[AwkwardlySet]

View attachment 2277377

Here's one of the tense charts that Bamagan linked to. It is accurate and helpful, but it does NOT provide specific guidance on sentence two, because sentence two combines present perfect tense (column 2, row 3) with the subjunctive mood, which is different from tense, and this chart doesn't deal with moods. Subjunctive mood is used to indicate something that is conditional. In this case, she's not pretty, but if she WERE pretty, it would be inconvenient. That's a present tense conditional, so "would be" is what you want.

It's like this:

She wasn't pretty, but if she had been pretty, it would have been inconvenient.


She isn't pretty, but if she were pretty, it would be inconvenient.

I find future perfect and future perfect progressive quite confusing. I would be thankful if you could provide an example where it makes sense to use such tenses.