H.R. 899: “The Department of Education shall terminate on December 31, 2018.”

[PrincepsCyberius]

Now we're talking!



https://massie.house.gov/newsroom/p...ll-to-abolish-federal-department-of-education

I'm in favor.

First and foremost, there is nothing in the Constitution giving the Federal Government any authority involving education. It is clearly one of the powers left to the states under the Tenth Amendment.

From a practical point of view, the one-size-fits-all-and-Washington-knows-best-what-that-is situation currently is killing education.

 

[4est_4est_Gump]

Partially.

I put some blame on LBJ and the breakup of the poor/minority family. It created a culture that is almost impossible to educate. Out of the roots of Progressive theory too, some blame gets placed on putting the feelings of the student first. Sometimes a child needs to be left behind and sometimes he/she simply cannot be prepared for college, so you might as well prepare them for life by side-tracking them into some useful vocational training in High School.

 

[PrincepsCyberius]

Partially.

I put some blame on LBJ and the breakup of the poor/minority family. It created a culture that is almost impossible to educate. Out of the roots of Progressive theory too, some blame gets placed on putting the feelings of the student first. Sometimes a child needs to be left behind and sometimes he/she simply cannot be prepared for college, so you might as well prepare them for life by side-tracking them into some useful vocational training in High School.

I have no argument with any of this, either. As someone who regularly works with teens and young adults from several of Milwaukee's poorest neighborhoods, I can tell you they desperately want vocational education, but the bureaucrats and ivory tower academics who run the public school district in Milwaukee insist on college prep for everyone, in part to do better on federally mandated testing which looks only at those sorts of skills.

 

[4est_4est_Gump]

Amen...



I was exposed to the inner-city mentality when I was promoted to head instructor at an inner-city martial arts school where a bunch of Marines were running it out of our pockets as a charity to help those kids.

 

[PrincepsCyberius]

Amen...



I was exposed to the inner-city mentality when I was promoted to head instructor at an inner-city martial arts school where a bunch of Marines were running it out of our pockets as a charity to help those kids.

With me, it started as work toward my Master's Degree. I loved it so much -- really feeling like I'm making a difference, at least in a few people's lives -- that it turned into my primary career.

 

[4est_4est_Gump]

We were able to reach a few kids, but most of my fellows were too white to earn the trust of most of those we tried to help. Even I, as a half breed, was angrily accused on more than one occasion as being a descendant of slave-owners for the crime of asking them to live up to high athletic and personal standards.

It is damned hard to educate when certain members of the community keep that negative feedback loop alive generation after generation...

 

[SgtSpiderMan]

I have no argument with any of this, either. As someone who regularly works with teens and young adults from several of Milwaukee's poorest neighborhoods, I can tell you they desperately want vocational education, but the bureaucrats and ivory tower academics who run the public school district in Milwaukee insist on college prep for everyone, in part to do better on federally mandated testing which looks only at those sorts of skills.

What test is federally mandated?

 

[PrincepsCyberius]

We were able to reach a few kids, but most of my fellows were too white to earn the trust of most of those we tried to help. Even I, as a half breed, was angrily accused on more than one occasion as being a descendant of slave-owners for the crime of asking them to live up to high athletic and personal standards.

It is damned hard to educate when certain members of the community keep that negative feedback loop alive generation after generation...

I work with teens and young adults with disabilities, so you build a trusting relationship based on that, so I have that part easier.

(Have you ever noticed that it is us "heartless conservatives" who actually get in the streets and work with the poor while it is the "caring liberals" who sit off in clean offices to pontificate and throw other people's money at ineffective or corrupt programs?)

 

[4est_4est_Gump]

I work with teens and young adults with disabilities, so you build a trusting relationship based on that, so I have that part easier.

(Have you ever noticed that it is us "heartless conservatives" who actually get in the streets and work with the poor while it is the "caring liberals" who sit off in clean offices to pontificate and throw other people's money at ineffective or corrupt programs?)

Exactly. My wife spends a lot of time working through her church to try and get out and make a difference in our community.

Action speaks louder than words,
and I am a man of great experience...

 

[Conager]

I work with teens and young adults with disabilities, so you build a trusting relationship based on that, so I have that part easier.

(Have you ever noticed that it is us "heartless conservatives" who actually get in the streets and work with the poor while it is the "caring liberals" who sit off in clean offices to pontificate and throw other people's money at ineffective or corrupt programs?)

Very much so. Recently, four of my brothers and I were at my mom's house and we were swapping war stories. None of us has an occupation that includes social worker in the title but we were noticing how much social work we end up doing in the course of our day and how similar the stories are.

I have absolutely zero respect for liberals that go around hurling that racist tag and everybody they disagree with when they don't even know anyone who isn't white, Much less live, regularly work with, and often directly help uplift people of color.

In my case it has absolutely nothing to do with any specific outreach to people of color. It's simply is a function of a lot of clients who are impoverished. Inevitably many of them are people of color.

I'm tired of being told that being color-blind isn't good enough. Because it absolutely is going to have to be. I think the fact that I'm well received in those communities is specifically because I interact in a colorblind manner. I treat people as people. Because they are. I talk to everyone the same regardless of what I perceive their background to be.

I regularly see impoverished people in their homes and with their families. Impoverished people of all colors (myself included, at times) tend, with very few exceptions, to have engaged in patterns of poor choices. Liberals in Ivory Towers correlating statistics and trying to pretend that the problem is society keeping impoverished people down, have no experience with impoverished people.

 

[4est_4est_Gump]

In fact, their thought patterns indicate that they think this nation employs a caste system and that being born in poverty means you will live and die in poverty...

 

[EternalFantasy]

Nevada did just that a few years ago. Softened the standards then touted the amazing improvement by students.
I don't think anyone was fooled.

tsk.... It's no surprise then Trump came within 2% to win it. I truly hope they do go forward with this new plan.

Don't waste your time on Spidey...

He does sound like a blonde bimbo version of a gym teacher going savior-knight wannabe kamikaze for his fascist comrades.

 

[EternalFantasy]

And that is what academies in England are supposed to do. They are commercial providers independent of the politicians at the equivalent of City Hall - unlike non-academies.

But we don't have US style school boards. We have governors who are from the community but they have no role in deciding what is taught. That is set by the National Curriculum by our equivalent of the Education Department.

Our governors are more concerned with the school infrastructure and staffing.

Bottom-line, it doesn't sound like it goes along with your statement in your previous post: "we did the same in England".

It doesn't sound the same, or you didn't give enough info.

 

[EternalFantasy]

In fact, their thought patterns indicate that they think this nation employs a caste system and that being born in poverty means you will live and die in poverty...

There's an economist who published something about 25 yrs back, maybe more, about how that works.

I think its desperation more than anything, coz indeed it seem being poor breeds more of that, and the culprit may appear to be capitalism, but a proper system in place where kids get a good chance at quality education, may just change things.

Edit: Actually, I just recalled more stuff from that paper. I think it also mentioned how status get's you advantages above and beyond your qualification. So, if you Graduate from ivy league etc.

Its a tough cookie, and no want can preach to have the solution, only the one that's better suited for a context of timer.

Now its time to decentralize the left institutions. They's gone too far.

 

[Conager]

Don't waste your time on Spidey...

Spidey was Firespin?

 

[4est_4est_Gump]

Spidey was Firespin?

No, but they both follow the same argumentative path...

 

[oggbashan]

Bottom-line, it doesn't sound like it goes along with your statement in your previous post: "we did the same in England".

It doesn't sound the same, or you didn't give enough info.

"We did the same in England" is YOUR statement, not mine.

The Academy system in England introduces commercial competition and a profit motive. Whether it is the same? Probably not because education in England was already different. Our National Curriculum makes debates about teaching Creationism for example irrelevant even in Church schools.

If you want more information - find it yourself. You can use Google and be swamped with masses of contradictory data. I have had enough of providing you with information that you only see through your bias.

 

[EternalFantasy]

I think this new idea of semi private schools to replace those rusted school boards can be a good thing. And let competition reign. Then quality education will be back.

It doesn't appear to be working in England.

These are the above previous posts in question here. You replied to my comment above with "it doesn't appear to be working in England". i only paraphrased to keep things clear. Saying this idea (this thread's subject matter and my quote above) didn't work in England means you are saying "we tried it, it doesn't work".

"We did the same in England" is YOUR statement, not mine.

The Academy system in England introduces commercial competition and a profit motive. Whether it is the same? Probably not because education in England was already different. Our National Curriculum makes debates about teaching Creationism for example irrelevant even in Church schools.

If you want more information - find it yourself. You can use Google and be swamped with masses of contradictory data. I have had enough of providing you with information that you only see through your bias.

You have not supplied clear info to backup your statement "we did the same idea in England it didn't work". You do not explain 'how' is this the same as the idea in this subject that's in this thread.

And if you don't, it's quite fine by me I assure you.

As for my "bias", i was a leftist all my life.

Cheers.

 

[KingOrfeo]

I'm in favor.

First and foremost, there is nothing in the Constitution giving the Federal Government any authority involving education. It is clearly one of the powers left to the states under the Tenth Amendment.

From a practical point of view, the one-size-fits-all-and-Washington-knows-best-what-that-is situation currently is killing education.

From a practical point of view, a centralized national education system educates the young better than any other. Look around the world.

 

[EternalFantasy]

From a practical point of view, a centralized national education system educates the young better than any other. Look around the world.

Cite?

Coz it has where there was no other, in developing nations, which are the majority. But where there's private, all agree it is "better", as you put.

And I wonder why

 

[BotanyBoy]

From a practical point of view, a centralized national education system educates the young better than any other. Look around the world.

Yeaaaaaaaaa......it's doing a great job!

 

[Conager]

From a practical point of view, a centralized national education system indoctrinates the young on behalf of the State better than any other. Look around the world.

FYP; YWIA

 

[Conager]

Cite?

Coz it has where there was no other, in developing nations, which are the majority. But where there's private, all agree it is "better", as you put.

And I wonder why

He doesn't need to provide citations for any of his assertions. Everything he spouts is so obviously true that it is self-evident. Just ask him.

 

[EternalFantasy]

He doesn't need to provide citations for any of his assertions. Everything he spouts is so obviously true that it is self-evident. Just ask him.

He said it himself, that he's smarter than anyone here.

 

[KingOrfeo]

He said it himself, that he's smarter than anyone here.

Not everyone, just every RW except for Colonel Hogan. He's the only Liticon with more than three cells between his ears.