Feedback request: Sinbad in the Sultan's Palace

[Mogrem]

TLDR; I am hoping for critiques on my recently posted prologue called Sinbad in the Sultan's Palace. Find it under the Group Sex category here: https://literotica.com/s/sinbad-in-the-sultans-palace

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Hi all

I've been writing on Literotica for 15 months but I'm relatively to the forum. I've been doing critiques on the comments under stories, but it certainly looks like this is the better place for a back and forth.

With that in mind I have this new story released which would benefit from some feedback from readers or other writers. Its the prologue to a longer multi-part story, called Sinbad in the Sultan's Palace. Find it under the Group Sex category here: https://literotica.com/s/sinbad-in-the-sultans-palace.

Its not being well received (or much read, but that's possibly another matter). Not being well received isn't breaking my heart, but I do want to check for glaring mis-steps before I flesh out the story proper (which is 3/4ths drafted now).

I would appreciate anyone having a read and giving their thoughts, either in the comments or in this thread. If you feel the need to give it a less than flattering rating whilst you're there then go for it. Like I said, I'm not precious about this one, its just a prologue.

I do have some thoughts on what could be wrong or poorly received with it, but it may be better to read them after reading the story itself.

Thank you

Mogrem

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[SPOILER]

(No, I don't seem to be able to get the spoiler tags working.)

This series will be quite different from my others, in particular in that it is nihilistic and there are no characters that are easy to identify with. That doesn't sound like a great start, but it is done well in many places and there is a certain sort of dark erotica that I admire that leans very much into it. The next parts will go full Get Carter, if I'm lucky.

That hasn't really come through in the prologue yet, so I'd be surprised if people think it too dark. But they may well think, "I don't give a damn about these characters and there's not enough action yet to engage me in all this back story nonsense". If that's the case then noted. It shouldn't be a problem once Sinbad's adventure starts, which has far more going on.

On the other hand it could be simply too verbose, cramming in too much exposition for too little natural character reveals and too little sex.

Another thought is that calling it a Sinbad story and setting it in 21st Century Berkshire is just, well, pissing readers off. If that's the case then bugger, I'll be leaning into that a lot more in the chapters to come.

Or I just gave a reasonable piece of work the wrong title and put it in the wrong category and managed to pitch it to just the wrong sort of readership.

Your thoughts much appreciated.

[/SPOILER]

 

[yowser]

Thanks for this, a lovely little prelude to upcoming pleasure.

Disclosure, I am a fussy reader/writer so some of what I say will come across as picking nits (accurate) so dial back my critical advice a bit. What you have done is a sweet introduction, way above average here, with lots of potential.

I liked the premise and setting (I am a big fan of the details of setting, which you mostly do well, although just saying 'Reading' up front is confusing - Reading UK? Reading Pennsylvania? Reading somewhere else? It emerges as England, but after too long.an interval.)

Sweet descriptions, you have us located with good visuals and sense of place and activity.

Wording is accomplished, although you have a couple stylistic tics:

Look carefully at 'its/it's' and you will see you are both inconsistent and wrong more than once in their usage. I don't mind 'fucking this' and 'fucking that' when it is clearly in dialogue or the narrator's voice, but too many of them grow wearisome. Sparing usage, please.

Several places you use 'you' when 'one' would read better, one example:

You didn't go wandering where you weren't invited.

There are places where the pronouns get a bit confusing, detached from their antecedents. A bit more clarity would help, one example:

Sin sighed. So he wasn't clueless, he just didn't have the wits to pretend ignorance, or fake outrage. Admirably honest in its own way, he supposed. He wondered how far he could push this.

(The second ‘he’ isn’t Sin, the other fellow, but then you drift back to Sin’s POV. Read through all the pronouns and make sure their connection is well established, otherwise use a name or something to help the reader keep things straight.)

You might profit from reading a discussion in the AH about the issues of 'come/cum' verb/noun, several times 'come' as a noun (I believe) would have been better rendered as 'semen' or some other description.

https://forum.literotica.com/threads/cum-or-come.1590359/


I would have liked a brief description of the security guards, or at least the one doing the sexual gymnastics (even just a detail about his arse going to work, something small that gives the reader a better sense than just a blank slate. We are good a filling in empty space but need a couple dots at least to connect.

Overall a fine beginning, you have a comfortable wield of the language and the words roll nicely, I think you will have a good series going. Not sure I would want 'Sin' as a neighbor, but he sure has promise at a party.

Good luck with the continuation.

 

[Mogrem]

Thanks for this, a lovely little prelude to upcoming pleasure.

Thanks @yowser. Thanks for the comment on the story itself too.

I liked the premise and setting (I am a big fan of the details of setting, which you mostly do well, although just saying 'Reading' up front is confusing - Reading UK? Reading Pennsylvania? Reading somewhere else? It emerges as England, but after too long.an interval.)

It is always so tempting to 'let details emerge', but almost never works as well for the reader as for the author. I agree I should make 'location: England' clearer right at the start.

I don't mind 'fucking this' and 'fucking that' when it is clearly in dialogue or the narrator's voice, but too many of them grow wearisome. Sparing usage, please.

I agree. Now you say it I realise I was a bit hesitant about the fucking-this and -that, but didn't think to take it out.

There are places where the pronouns get a bit confusing, detached from their antecedents. A bit more clarity would help, one example:

Sin sighed. So he wasn't clueless, he just didn't have the wits to pretend ignorance, or fake outrage. Admirably honest in its own way, he supposed. He wondered how far he could push this.

(The second ‘he’ isn’t Sin, the other fellow, but then you drift back to Sin’s POV. Read through all the pronouns and make sure their connection is well established, otherwise use a name or something to help the reader keep things straight.)

This is probably the biggest issue I come up against on a line by line level. I need to read up on the subject, or just read some novels with an eye for how they do it. As it is its a constant struggle to work out how to keep it clear without giving the characters' names twice every line.

You might profit from reading a discussion in the AH about the issues of 'come/cum' verb/noun, several times 'come' as a noun (I believe) would have been better rendered as 'semen' or some other description.
https://forum.literotica.com/threads/cum-or-come.1590359/

The best solution to that old erotica question is to try and use either version of the word a little less frequently, which I will make a note to do.

I would have liked a brief description of the security guards, or at least the one doing the sexual gymnastics (even just a detail about his arse going to work, something small that gives the reader a better sense than just a blank slate. We are good a filling in empty space but need a couple dots at least to connect.

I am also disappointed with that scene. Its very perfunctory where it could have gone on some. It is meant to be throw-away, to a degree; that's the point. But it still needs to have details to hook on to, as you say.

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I have just resubmitted Act I of the First Voyage of Sinbad. This feedback hasn't gone into that one but it will into later parts. In general though I think you are pointing our general faults with my writing abilities, meaning things that I need to work on gradually fixing as I continue to write rather than story specific flaws. This is good; its useful to be reminded of what to work on. After a while you can get too attached to your own style and it becomes the literary equivalent of cartoon.

 

[yibala]

I do have some thoughts on what could be wrong or poorly received with it, but it may be better to read them after reading the story itself.

I have a theory that a lot of ratings are based on category, and, in a larger sense, presentation. Your prose is fine. There's nothing that makes the story unreadable. But the way you present the story sets up expectations, and I think readers tend to rate/favorite based on whether the story fits their expectations.

Specifically, I think the Group Sex category ("Orgies, Swingers and others") suggests a very action-oriented story with threesomes, swapping and gropalicious free-for-alls. There's not really much of that here, and what there is of an orgy is mainly by implication. I guess we see the aftermath of an orgy, but the in-scene action seems to be more couples than anything else, as the security guards basically pair off with the wives. If I were browsing through Group Sex and reading this one I would be disappointed with the group sex. I'm guessing that you plan to have more action in later installments, and this is a prologue to set things up. But I think ideally you want to give more of a taste of orgiastic things to come than you have here. This prologue might fit better under Loving Wives, or Nonconsent.

The title is clever, but a little misleading too. I was thinking this was a fantasy setting (that's actually why I checked out this thread in the first place ).

Getting more to the story itself, there's not a lot here to engage the reader on an emotional level. Sin is the only named character, which tells me he's the only character I'm supposed to care about here. It seems like things are going really well for him. In fact, he's bored and laments on how easy everything is. There's no conflict emphasized or suspense built up to pull me into the next installment.

I wouldn't place a lot of importance on the ratings. You have a larger story to tell, and I encourage you to tell it. A prologue is just a beginning (sometimes, not even a beginning) and isn't meant to stand on its own. But if you're looking for reasons why folks didn't seem give much in the way of supportive comments, or rate this a 4 or 5, these would be my guesses.

Yib

My stories

 

[ElectricBlue]

This is probably the biggest issue I come up against on a line by line level. I need to read up on the subject, or just read some novels with an eye for how they do it. As it is its a constant struggle to work out how to keep it clear without giving the characters' names twice every line.

Sometimes you just have to get repetitive with character's names, if you've got more than a he and a she. As soon as you have a threesome or more, you've got to keep it clear who is who, who's up who, and in what direction.

Some writers do it by referring to the "blonde" or the "redhead" or the "taller man", but after a while (a very short while, in my opinion) that becomes laboured, and you think, "What, don't they have names?" It's better, I think, to use their names to navigate - it soon becomes like "he said" and "she said", the names quickly become invisible, but you know where everyone is.

The trick is to avoid using names in dialogue too often, unless the scene needs someone to catch another character's attention. Think about when you're talking to a lover - you're more likely to use a pet name than their real name.

 

[AlinaX]

Don't know why people are complaining about Reading. Any ambiguity in location is soon resolved.

ETA: Honestly, the title does create expectations that the story doesn't fulfil, both in terms of setting and character. Or maybe I didn't read far enough, but that in itself is a problem.

Prologues are dangerous things. Almost always they can be removed and the story will improve. They're best when short. This one goes out of its way to make sexual excesses seem mundane and even horrifying, while the main character is just awful.

 

[Mogrem]

Specifically, I think the Group Sex category ("Orgies, Swingers and others") suggests a very action-oriented story with threesomes, swapping and gropalicious free-for-alls. There's not really much of that here, and what there is of an orgy is mainly by implication. I guess we see the aftermath of an orgy, but the in-scene action seems to be more couples than anything else, as the security guards basically pair off with the wives. If I were browsing through Group Sex and reading this one I would be disappointed with the group sex

It ought to have been in non-consent. The other installments will be. I have a bad habit of switching category mid-way through a series for little reason.

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I have made a variety of rods for my back with this series. Its not big, its not clever, but it is quite fun to try and write.
That's OK, its all a bit of an experiment.

The title is clever, but a little misleading too. I was thinking this was a fantasy setting (that's actually why I checked out this thread in the first place ).

ETA: Honestly, the title does create expectations that the story doesn't fulfil, both in terms of setting and character. Or maybe I didn't read far enough, but that in itself is a problem.

This is definitely rod number one. It gets more contrived in Act I (see below), and therefore the problem either get more acute or it starts to work. We'll see.

Some writers do it by referring to the "blonde" or the "redhead" or the "taller man", but after a while (a very short while, in my opinion) that becomes laboured, and you think, "What, don't they have names?" It's better, I think, to use their names to navigate

Rod number two. Only Sin is going to be named, and even his name is more a pun than anything else.

This one goes out of its way to make sexual excesses seem mundane and even horrifying, while the main character is just awful.

Getting more to the story itself, there's not a lot here to engage the reader on an emotional level. ... There's no conflict emphasized or suspense built up to pull me into the next installment.

Yes that is a weakness. There is not enough ominous hints about what is to come. If he is an awful character (and he is, and meant to be) then it does need to be plainer whether to read on to see him get his comeuppance, or for the 'pleasure' of watching someone awful get away with being awful. As it is it just ended on "Sin's fine, really."

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I've had The First Voyage of Sinbad --- Act I published, for those interested in seeing where it goes. For anyone happy to continue the feedback, thank you!