Different types of doms

[ChucklesNLovin]

Stella,
I think you do reach more people than you think. Some of them may be more stubborn to "just believe" than others and that's not your fault (it's mine) .-)

I really like the terms "Leader and "Follower". It removes the positions/roles/acts from the BDSM dictionary and moves it into a more common dictionary that nearly everyone can relate to, including me.
There are an limitless number of ways one can lead, or follow.

I can use the term top to describe anyone who is leading the scene, and therefore can use the term bottom for anyone that is following, or being lead (leaded(?)) Crap, another screwed up word Lead or Lead (led)?... I'm really starting to hate the english language but it's all I know. .-(

Well, I think I got it...

 

[DVS]

I'm almost positive I never said "one or the other" about people.

I

repeat

again

and

again

and

again:

I have very definite views as to the accuracy of the definitions of the words "top" and "dom". I have a very strong opinion that dom/sub designation is misused more often than not, especially in het BDSM circles.

And I have very definite views, I say once again, about the perniciousness in the hetero world, of using ONLY dom/sub to describe every BDSM dynamic, and never even knowing that another set of terms exist. I object to this misuse for feminist, humanist, and sexiness reasons.

The terms top and dom don't describe opposite ends of a spectrum, like gay and straight do. They are complimentary spectrums. We slide along both scales. Just as we slid along the gay/straight spectrum and, for that matter, the male/female spectrum. Don't I know it.

I really hope this clarifies my position...

you know...I think I understand you. But, just so I do, could you explain it one more time?

















Sorry...just kidding.

 

[Stella_Omega]

i'm following you. i don't run in BDSM circles, so i'm not familiar with how the words are being used or misused there.

do you find that the terms are misused by male PYL/ female pyl peoples as much as female PYL/ male pyl peoples?

If not more so, and in worse ways IMO. The term "sub" usually defaults to female in the het crowd. Women who dominate are "dommes" like it takes extra letters for a woman to assume the status. and men who submit are "male subs." Because the normal subs are female, see.

I find that... problematic.



DVS sometimes you're simply brilliant

And I wish you would make your music public. Or semi public, with a password? Please?

 

[ChucklesNLovin]

For the comment about creating labels for the things in-between? I personally don't think that is necessary. This is just my point view here...

It is similar to Colors of Light. Color has an infinite number of variations, but all variants can be created with 3 Basic Colors. Red, Green and Blue. Variants are created by increasing or decreasing the levels, or amounts, of each of these three Primary colors. When they are put together, they create a Variant.

I don't think we have to define every combination or variant. We might want to add one here or there for the most common variants, like Black, White, Cyan and Pink, but that is a choice and is not necessary, it simply makes it convinient.

I see a primary Trait as one that cannot be defined by any combination of the other primary traits... so Cyan can be defined by x%Red, y%Green and z%Blue, so it is not a primary trait. But Blue cannot be defined by only Percentages of Red and Green, so it is a unique trait that cannot be defined (so to speak).
Any yes, the colors are sussepable to perception. The Frequency of the color (light) as it is transmitted, may vary slightly by the time it reaches the particular eye that is receiving it. Meaning, even though Red is transmitted, I may see pink. But eventually, after 98% of the people correct me, I will have to "Believe" it is Red, even though it feels like Pink.

So, what are the core traits of BDSM Activities, and what are the the core characteristics of a BDSM personality?
Are they, as they are defined? Bondage, Discipline, Dominance, Submission, Sadist and Masochist? Would you add Top, Bottom and Power Transfer? Can they actually be defined by levels of the others?

Once I have found the primary traits, the definitions of each will help "paint" the scene or pesonality. Pun Intended .-)

 

[ChucklesNLovin]

One last Top/bottom question before my head explodes....

An example of a "It is this way, But, it could be..." was given early on.

So here is a scenario.
A couple have designated a Dominent and a submissive.
The sub has give control to the Dom (Power Transfer).
The Dom (husband) instructs the sub to binds him and Spank him.

Who is topping?
Is the Dom topping because he has physcological control over the sub.
Or is the sub topping because she is "doing" things to the Dom?

Or is this the exception to the rule? But is seems that this scenario could play out alot and has been mentioned a bunch...

If the Dom is "Topping", then the term Topping (doing) is not necessary because the Dom is still in psycological control... Dominating. Topping has no relevance. Who is "Doing" is not physical, it is mental?

But, if the sub is "Topping", then the term has a use. The sub can not be Dominating, that would be conflicting terms... and a new word would be usefull... Topping.

This one was stuck in my head (along with images of Stella spanking me) and the answer would explain alot, I hope.

 

[Stella_Omega]

The dom is dominant, even while they are bottoming.

The sub is acting as top in that scenario.

The dom has directed the action ahead of time and then, secure in the belief that the sub knows what to do, relaxes and enjoys it.

That's what bottoming is-- being done unto.

And the sub performs with close attention (we hope) to the Dom's enjoyment. That's one aspect of submission, after all...


Another example, using blow jobs for illustration:

The top grabs the bottom by the head and shoves his dick into that open mouth.

The top pushes the bottom down and teases the bottom orally, until he's begging to be allowed to come.

In either of those scenarios there can be a metric ton of dom/sub dynamics as well.

 

[ChucklesNLovin]

Perfect...
Thankyou.

 

[Stella_Omega]

Someone's gonna get their bottom on...

If you do have her spank you, two bits of advice; Remind her that you will be using a safeword, and she doesn't stop just because you wiggle and shout some.

And, give her a paddle or other implement because if she's not used to spanking, her hand will give out-- and if you're not used to being spanked, your skin will simply absorb everything she hands you. It can seem like it just.. doesn't... hurt.

 

[ChucklesNLovin]

I'll keep that in mind.
Although that request will end badly (see "honesty in sex" thread)...
...so it will be a while before I experiment with that one.

 

[Stella_Omega]

I hear you.

 

[FungiUg]

Color has an infinite number of variations, but all variants can be created with 3 Basic Colors. Red, Green and Blue.

To be clear, you are talking about additive light combinations. In a subtractive combination (such as that you would see printing), colours are made up of cyan, magenta and yellow, usually with a "key black" thrown in because adding CMY generally just gives a muddy brown. So I don't think colour combinations are a particularly good example.

I also think you're reaching. People are far more complex than a light spectrum, although yes I can see why you would want a simplistic example to illustrate your point.

I see a primary Trait as one that cannot be defined by any combination of the other primary traits... [...]

So, what are the core traits of BDSM Activities, and what are the the core characteristics of a BDSM personality?

Are they, as they are defined? Bondage, Discipline, Dominance, Submission, Sadist and Masochist? Would you add Top, Bottom and Power Transfer? Can they actually be defined by levels of the others?

The labels are not traits, although they can sometimes be related to personality. We're headed into psychological profiling, and that's a very complex area, one I don't feel at all qualified to comment on.

My own view is that "BDSM Personalities" as such do not exist. Rather, there are people who practice BDSM and who tend to tall into particular personality types, but those same types can be found in many different practices and areas. Just think politics or religion or sport or the work place.

The labels "bottom" and "top" refer to roles, not personality types. "Dominant", "submissive", "sadist", "masochist", "switch" can be both personality types and roles. "Bondage", "discipline" and "power transfer" are activities. So we're not even talking about the same types of labels.

So in my view, none of these need necessarily be "core traits" of BDSM personalities (if such a thing exists at all.)

People who practice BDSM are made up of all of the same psychological components as other humans. We are not devoid, deformed or damaged (although you can find people like that who do practice BDSM, just as you can find people like that in any other social group.) We are varied and unique (just like everyone else!)

So if you are asking what attracts us to BDSM... well, now you are into the area of kink and fetishism I think. Why do men (and many women) like boobs? Why do we find lips and eyes (across all genders) attractive? Why is there so much social pressure to be skinny when we all know that extremes of weight are unhealthy?

Asking why can yield you a lot of different answers. But I can assure you, looking for simplistic "core personality traits" in BDSM will soon see you overwhelmed in exceptions and differences. The labels are merely useful simplifications and do not define who we actually are.

 

[CutieMouse]

This entire thread makes me so very thankful that my first "introduction" to BDSM was being handed copies of The New Topping Book and The New Bottoming Book by my best friends. He noticed it, she agreed, they decided the books were a perfect birthday present.

Almost 10 years later- I don't give a **** about the labels. Men who meet me for drinks and decide I'm not submissive are welcome to their opinion... As are men who assume I'm a Top, or a Domme, or a bottom, or a slave. (That last one is pretty dam rare, but it happens. lol)

I just can't get worked up over it. I know I'm supposed to; I totally see where Stella is coming from, but I've been told I'm not who I am so many times over the last 10 years that I've lost faith in the labels/descriptors, period.

 

[Stella_Omega]

This entire thread makes me so very thankful that my first "introduction" to BDSM was being handed copies of The New Topping Book and The New Bottoming Book by my best friends. He noticed it, she agreed, they decided the books were a perfect birthday present.

Almost 10 years later- I don't give a **** about the labels. Men who meet me for drinks and decide I'm not submissive are welcome to their opinion... As are men who assume I'm a Top, or a Domme, or a bottom, or a slave. (That last one is pretty dam rare, but it happens. lol)

I just can't get worked up over it. I know I'm supposed to; I totally see where Stella is coming from, but I've been told I'm not who I am so many times over the last 10 years that I've lost faith in the labels/descriptors, period.

I'm not worked up on your account, you know.

Nor on my own. We're old timers now!

Like you, I got the New Topping and Bottoming books-- as soon as they came out, practically, I was so excited!

But I wish I had a hundred copies of each and could pass them out to everyone who comes here worrying about if they're DOMINANT or submissive enough.

Not to mention the asshats who meet you for drinks.

 

[txblush]

Human sexuality can be described using the proper terminology, but it is defined by the individual's psychological makeup and life's experiences. Understanding the terms that have been discussed on this thread doesn't mean understanding the psychology of any given person. It is impossible to walk in another person's shoes, but it is possible to follow the path of those that have graciously shared the most important message of BDSM-open and honest communication that makes all persons involved feel safe and that the kinky experience is consensual.

 

[Stella_Omega]

Understanding the terms that have been discussed on this thread doesn't mean understanding the psychology of any given person.

Omighawd, blush, thank you for saying the stuff I totally forget about...

 

[DVS]

If not more so, and in worse ways IMO. The term "sub" usually defaults to female in the het crowd. Women who dominate are "dommes" like it takes extra letters for a woman to assume the status. and men who submit are "male subs." Because the normal subs are female, see.

I find that... problematic.



DVS sometimes you're simply brilliant

And I wish you would make your music public. Or semi public, with a password? Please?

Sometimes simply brilliant? I can read between the lines. Other times, I'm just simple.

Check out my signature line. It's been there for quite some time, now. I'm in the process of updating, but what's there is OK for a listen.

 

[txblush]

Omighawd, blush, thank you for saying the stuff I totally forget about...

You're quite welcome Stella

 

[txblush]

This entire thread makes me so very thankful that my first "introduction" to BDSM was being handed copies of The New Topping Book and The New Bottoming Book by my best friends. He noticed it, she agreed, they decided the books were a perfect birthday present.

Almost 10 years later- I don't give a **** about the labels. Men who meet me for drinks and decide I'm not submissive are welcome to their opinion... As are men who assume I'm a Top, or a Domme, or a bottom, or a slave. (That last one is pretty dam rare, but it happens. lol)

I just can't get worked up over it. I know I'm supposed to; I totally see where Stella is coming from, but I've been told I'm not who I am so many times over the last 10 years that I've lost faith in the labels/descriptors, period.

I have those books, too.

 

[midwestyankee]

This entire thread makes me so very thankful that my first "introduction" to BDSM was being handed copies of The New Topping Book and The New Bottoming Book by my best friends. He noticed it, she agreed, they decided the books were a perfect birthday present.

Almost 10 years later- I don't give a **** about the labels. Men who meet me for drinks and decide I'm not submissive are welcome to their opinion... As are men who assume I'm a Top, or a Domme, or a bottom, or a slave. (That last one is pretty dam rare, but it happens. lol)

I just can't get worked up over it. I know I'm supposed to; I totally see where Stella is coming from, but I've been told I'm not who I am so many times over the last 10 years that I've lost faith in the labels/descriptors, period.

You're fortunate in two regards, CM. First, that your friends gave you an excellent resource from which to start your inquiry. Second, you have an inquisitive and careful mind and have continued to think about what this all means.

I think part of the problem is that there really are two discussions going on here. One might be framed "How do I describe myself accurately without feeling as if I'm trying to fit my round peg into a hexagonal hole and thus losing part of my identity?" while the other might be this: "How can we come to use certain words in an agreed-upon way so that our discussions proceed with as little confusion as possible?". The first gets personal awfully easily and that almost always makes the second discussion more difficult.

At least, this is what I see from my little studio apartment in Meta City.

As a side note, partly in response to Stella's continuing campaign to get people to see the utility of using terms in agreed-upon ways, I decided to change my "Role" descriptor over at Fetlife. I copped out and am now using "Kinkster" as a catch-all.

 

[ownedsubgal]

So, what are the core traits of BDSM Activities, and what are the the core characteristics of a BDSM personality?
Are they, as they are defined? Bondage, Discipline, Dominance, Submission, Sadist and Masochist? Would you add Top, Bottom and Power Transfer? Can they actually be defined by levels of the others?

FungiUg's response this was a great one...there are no set "BDSM personalities," and hence there are not set of traits linked to such a thing. you also have to remember that the fact that not all of us even engage in BDSM activities, or practice "kink." some of us never "Top" or "bottom." for me, my submissiveness is simply about my personality. it is not borne of choice or even desire, it's just the way i have always tended respond to the world around me, for good or ill. D/s introduced me to a way of life where being submissive was acceptable, and becoming the property of another person, a slave, not only saved my life but showed me that being this way can actually be valuable and precious.

 

[ChucklesNLovin]

FungiUg,
Yes, I was talking about light, thus the statement "...similar to Colors of Light"... But that's alright. I have read the thread 5 times over ans till haven't figured out what I've missed. Most of this is "Psyc Major" talk that doesn't help this "Dumb Hick".
"What's the soup of the day?". "It's the soup DeJoir, sir!". "Thanks!"

Ya'll,
I am learning what BDSM terms are part of the language that describes BDSM, and what terms are "Slang", if you will.
Then, are those terms "Actions" or "Personalities".
Dominate vs Dominent.
submissive vs submissive. "No, not submissive. submissive! Dumbass!"

I will say it again. I'm not labeling anyone.
Maybe I should add that to my Signature...

One last question for my own clarification.

What is the difference between a Dominant [person] and a Master? And of course a submissive [person] and slave?

I will sit patiently and await my next beating.

 

[Stella_Omega]

Well, "master and slave" are terms with a lot of historical references-- slaves are owned, property, chattel.

It used to be that subs were called "slaves" because that was pretty much the only word around... Submissive is a relatively new term coined sometime after Freud made psychiatry a matter of common knowledge.

But now, we can use "master/slave" to describe a more specific form of D/s

Or several more specific forms.

 

[ownedsubgal]

One last question for my own clarification.

What is the difference between a Dominant [person] and a Master? And of course a submissive [person] and slave?

I will sit patiently and await my next beating.

hmm well it doesn't look like you've gotten any beatings here, i think everyone understands that you're just exploring and learning, something that should be neverending for us all.

and of course you will get many different answers to the questions you just posed, but here are mine for whatever it's worth:

the difference between a dominant person and a Master, or between a submissive person and a slave, is for me a bit like asking the difference between an autistic person and a dentist. the assumption that the terms are necessarily related or connected is a false one.

Dominant and submissive as i understand them can be defined in two distinct ways: firstly as chosen roles within an individual relationship, or as innate personality traits, a part of one's nature as reflexive as blinking. Master and slave otoh are descriptors of one's status. a Master is the owner of human property, a slave is owned by another. and what does it mean to truly be owned? it is to have one's life entirely controlled by and subject to the will of another. for some, such as myself, this was a chosen path. for most it was not. but then i tend to be quite literal with the use of such terms.

because the terms Master and slave only describe status, not personality, one need not be submissive in order to be a slave, and one need not be a dominant-natured person in order to be a Master. i am a slave who happens to be submissive, but i have known many slaves who were not only not at all submissive, but had quite dominant personalities. for their own reasons they simply chose a life of servitude to a particular individual.

 

[FungiUg]

What is the difference between a Dominant [person] and a Master? And of course a submissive [person] and slave?

I think you've already had some good answers, but I will throw in my viewpoint. Keep in mind that it's only that.

"Master" and "slave" are normally associated with some form of ownership. This, for example, most closely aligns with my own relationship. My partner isn't always my submissive, but she is mine to do with as I please at any time I wish.

But you see, that's different again to what ownedsubgal describes, because of the element of choice: my girl has chosen to belong to me, because it gives her what she wants.

Having said that, I personally don't identify with the label "master". I don't think it describes me at all. The closest I can get to describing myself would be a sexually-oriented top who just happens to own someone. I sometimes simplify this and just refer to myself as a "dominant" (or even "twuu dominate") because that's less of a mouthful to say.

People identify with different labels: they feel one suits them, another doesn't. What's important is what they do and who they actually are, not what label they decide to use. The labels get us onto the same playing field, but from there we need to talk and converse to find out where we truly fit into the team.

So someone who identifies with the label "Dominant" is different to someone who identifies with the label "Master", yes, even if only by the label they feel suits them best. In your question, the people who identify with the labels are going to have many differences, and until I talk to them (as, for example, we are doing here), I'm not going to know what those differences are.

Food for thought: Stella makes some good cases about respecting the terms and understanding them, but words do change meaning due to public use, so you also need to keep in mind that what is "popularly understood" by the terms does tend to become the actual meaning of the terms. English as a language does evolve, and not necessarily in ways we like.

 

[kimuk]

Being no expert and having very limited experiance it seems to me that every daynamic is individual. Every Dom is different just as everyones personalility is different. We are all indiviuals and how we interact with one person is unique. Our reactions and interactions would be different with another perosn. Either way it seems to me to be a mutually dependant relationship where you give and take what you want and need and reep the rewards sexually and emotionally .

So different types of Dom = different types of preople
Different expections = different desires.
what floats one persons boat dosent do it for another ?

I just know that my "relationships" with the men I have entered into a D/s dynamic have produced very different reactions from me .
But hell what do I know lol