Ask a MtF TG a question

[Escierto]

A fairly long article linked here now that the long-running Cass report has been finalised. The main gender clinic in the UK was the Tavistock and was the one I attended all those years ago. There was hardly any waiting list back then, staff remembered who you were and the process felt safe and sympathetic.

In the years that followed, gender became a loaded word: initially as a cool thing for kids to question, then increasingly, drawing alarmist headlines about the apparent epidemic of transgender kids.
The numbers speak for themselves with patient lists at Tavistock mushrooming from 250 to 5000 referrals per year.

I haven't read the review, but this seems a fairly balanced report on it. I agree with much of its findings but I can understand how clinicians were overwhelmed by numbers and also under pressure from advocates who'd scream 'transphobia' if ever questions were raised about diagnoses or practises.

I have cousins who teach and they report that it is often parents who seek attention by over-reacting to their child's questions such as 'why don't boys wear dresses?' as being reason to run straight to a psychiatrist. The pushy-parent is well known phenomena in schools and not just limited to my cousins observations.
It's the same pushiness that sees parents avoiding normal vaccinations for their children so that the UK has outbreaks of measles that run rampant in schools "... but we heard summinck on the internet that said vaccinations makes your kid autistic..."

My memory doesn't go back to know if the same hysteria circled the gay community: that gay men were all pedos, that homosexuality could be beaten out of a child or that being gay was infectious. Maybe that pendulum swung wildly before common sense prevailed?

Your last paragraph. That hysteria is still going strong in the US. No, common sense has not prevailed.

 

[AlexBailey]

…..

My memory doesn't go back to know if the same hysteria circled the gay community: that gay men were all pedos, that homosexuality could be beaten out of a child or that being gay was infectious. Maybe that pendulum swung wildly before common sense prevailed?

Things have been changing over the years here in California. Two teachers were fired when they were outed for being gay at my middle school back in the 80’s. I remember hearing parents saying what a good thing it was that someone had hired a private investigator to confirm the rumors. We lost a dedicated art teacher and a favorite substitute.

Some of my kids who are now young adults had a nonbinary XY principal at their high school.

Things have been getting better, even in the Catholic Church my parents went to. Twenty years ago a group of men in their congregation were not only excommunicated but also told they were not welcome on church property by a priest who was ‘celibate gay’. Now although they are not allowed to receive the sacrament, homosexual people are allowed to attend. I’ve been told the new rules were implemented by Pope Francis, though I wonder if the change was also made in consideration of falling attendance. The movement has been glacial and transgenderism is still unsupported, but progress is slowly being made.

 

[Crios]

Things have been changing over the years here in California. Two teachers were fired when they were outed for being gay at my middle school back in the 80’s. I remember hearing parents saying what a good thing it was that someone had hired a private investigator to confirm the rumors. We lost a dedicated art teacher and a favorite substitute.

Some of my kids who are now young adults had a nonbinary XY principal at their high school.

Things have been getting better, even in the Catholic Church my parents went to. Twenty years ago a group of men in their congregation were not only excommunicated but also told they were not welcome on church property by a priest who was ‘celibate gay’. Now although they are not allowed to receive the sacrament, homosexual people are allowed to attend. I’ve been told the new rules were implemented by Pope Francis, though I wonder if the change was also made in consideration of falling attendance. The movement has been glacial and transgenderism is still unsupported, but progress is slowly being made.

I agree there's been progress but it also depends on WHERE you live. Some of the more conservative areas of the country (like the upper Midwest where I live) are still pretty homophobic and transphobic. Right wing nut job politicians are fueling their fears, just the same as Hitler did in the 30's. There are pockets of acceptance...bigger cities, university towns, presence of multinational corporations, etc.

Used to attend Catholic church regularly but the pastor of our parish is ultra-conservative. Anti gay, anti trans, anti vaccine, feels that "Christianity is under attack."

 

[Paradox]

I found this article interesting. It seems God changed his mind.

https://religionnews.com/2024/04/08...holarly-trump-card-on-same-sex-relationships/

 

[Escierto]

I agree there's been progress but it also depends on WHERE you live. Some of the more conservative areas of the country (like the upper Midwest where I live) are still pretty homophobic and transphobic. Right wing nut job politicians are fueling their fears, just the same as Hitler did in the 30's. There are pockets of acceptance...bigger cities, university towns, presence of multinational corporations, etc.

Used to attend Catholic church regularly but the pastor of our parish is ultra-conservative. Anti gay, anti trans, anti vaccine, feels that "Christianity is under attack."

I stopped in 2016 when a majority of Catholics voted for someone that I shall not name.

 

[Crios]

I stopped in 2016 when a majority of Catholics voted for someone that I shall not name.

Yeah, they couldn’t care if he was Voldemort as long as he killed Roe v Wade.

 

[NewOldGuy77]

“:that gay men were all pedos, that homosexuality could be beaten out of a child or that being gay was infectious.” This is still very much the case in the Conservative/GOP dominated parts of the US.

 

[AlinaX]

A fairly long article linked here now that the long-running Cass report has been finalised.
I haven't read the review, but this seems a fairly balanced report on it. I agree with much of its findings but

The astonishing thing is how blatantly biased its methodology was from the start. It was like getting a bunch of old white men together (without any women in the room) to discuss whether feminism was a good thing, and to dismiss any scientific research that might suggest otherwise, inevitably coming to the decision that women under 25 aren't mature enough to make serious decisions.

I hate bad science. The Cass review was set up as a blunt political instrument. It has already done damage at the interim stage, and is now doing worse. (The sense that her own intentions were perhaps good just grates.) Bad enough that the Tories started it, but now the opposition party (and likely next government) has embraced its findings too.

 

[Zrosey]

I hate bad science. The Cass review was set up as a blunt political instrument. It has already done damage at the interim stage, and is now doing worse

I wish I could think of a reasonable and rational reply here. The more I read snippets of the Cass report, the more discouraged I feel. The misinformation and outright lies seem to have replaced solid science these days....

Closer to home for me, I just testified for the third time regarding trans participation in school sports. Even tho comments are overwhelmingly in favor of all kids in sports these worthless politicians keep introducing bills to stop queer kids participating.

I wish these old white guys would just die off....

 

[Escierto]

I wish I could think of a reasonable and rational reply here. The more I read snippets of the Cass report, the more discouraged I feel. The misinformation and outright lies seem to have replaced solid science these days....

Closer to home for me, I just testified for the third time regarding trans participation in school sports. Even tho comments are overwhelmingly in favor of all kids in sports these worthless politicians keep introducing bills to stop queer kids participating.

I wish these old white guys would just die off....

I am an old white guy and I wish they would die off too! It's way past time time for the young to take control!

 

[NewOldGuy77]

I am an old white guy and I wish they would die off too! It's way past time time for the young to take control!

OWG here as well, I second that emotion...

 

[Zrosey]

 

[stickygirl]

The astonishing thing is how blatantly biased its methodology was from the start. It was like getting a bunch of old white men together (without any women in the room) to discuss whether feminism was a good thing, and to dismiss any scientific research that might suggest otherwise, inevitably coming to the decision that women under 25 aren't mature enough to make serious decisions.

I hate bad science. The Cass review was set up as a blunt political instrument. It has already done damage at the interim stage, and is now doing worse. (The sense that her own intentions were perhaps good just grates.) Bad enough that the Tories started it, but now the opposition party (and likely next government) has embraced its findings too.

I hate bad science too. One aspect of that was Cass taking four years to report what we all knew - that Tavistock, had become dysfunctional.

Cass recommended that regional hubs should replace Tavistock, but while most have put a sign at the window, the centres are underfunded and virtually unstaffed. The government has not provided adequate funding and action to create regional hubs to clear the four year backlog the delay has caused.

Stonewall commented
“Many recommendations could make a positive impact – such an expanding provision of healthcare by moving away from a single national service towards a series of regional centres, while recognising that there are many different treatment pathways that trans young people might take.”

Even Mermaids welcome that Cass' report "recognises the current system is failing trans youth".

Another recommendation in the report is the children be assessed to “inform an individualised care plan” including screenings for “neurodevelopmental conditions” such as autism, depression, anxiety, and others.” I agree and find it disappointing the service had a blinkered view in the past.

So I get it that Cass has been cast as the evil expert, but she was handed a shit sandwich. While elements of the media, politicians and even fiction authors are wildly anti-trans, it’s kids who suffer, with still no real services for them. Maybe I’m wrong about Cass herself and I’ll always look at other povs to learn or challenge my opinion. The problem with any scientific study is that politicians cherry pick the bits they want to hear. The report lists numerous possible causes for dysphoria but one politician jumped on child sex abuse as a reason for preclude trans from legislation to ban conversion therapy. The report included the opinion of one clinician who doubted the existence of gender dysphoria and that too was leapt on as 'proof' instead of being seen as part of body of evidence that acknowledged conflicting views in how to provide care.

Maybe if politics in the UK was less populist and able to take a balance approach instead of appeasing the like of JKR or the LGB Alliance, then the report would be seen in a better light - as being honest, if sometimes brutal in its findings. Germany has just removed its onerous requirement to change legal gender and several other European countries have a more intelligent and thoughtful attitude toward trans issues. I wouldn't be surprised if the UK decides to challenge abortion rights, given the way it acts as America's poodle.

ETA
Here's a link to download the full 380-page report. I'm only skimming through it.

 

[AlinaX]

The more I learn about Cass & co., the more sinister it all seems. I was willing to give her the benefit of the doubt four years ago, but her allies, collaborators, methodology, conclusions and consequences are all too neat. Ultimately her report says nothing new, and will do a lot of damage.

 

[stickygirl]

The biggest issue I have is not so much with the report but the consequences, in that the government has decided to intervene in the medical process by banning blockers and hormone treatment for U-18s. While Cass pointed out that evidence has been poorly recorded, she acknowledged their effectiveness for some trans people and against a blanket ban. The blockers pre-date the upsurge in numbers by at least twenty years and were first used in the Netherlands in 1998.

Having had time to read more of the report, I get the sense that Cass sees trans people as broken and not as valuable as cis gender people - that's based on omission than any expression of approval. It's as though she's burst into the building and demanded to see the clinical trials, stats, graphs and scientific evidence, which is indeed lacking. She places little weight in anecdotal evidence - you know, happy trans people living meaningful lives.

I listened to a podcast earlier including one trans person who'd waited three years for a GiDs appointment, but then got a letter saying they were now too old for GiDs and would have to re-apply for the adult service. Most of that comes down to lack of funding. I hope the next Labour govt will simply put a penny on income tax specifically for the NHS - no one, apart from those on private health, will object.

On the topic of de-transitioning the numbers need analysis not simply totalled. Many de-transition because they face social pressure ( lets just call that bullying ), some may delay transitioning for economic or other reasons so they intended to come back to it later, and some may find they can't tolerate hormone drugs. Additionally, stats can be furthered distorted by setting a false start point for their transition - when does a person actually start their transition?

Here's a decent review from Stonewall that does a better job than me.

 

[stickygirl]

I've been watching a few YT vloggers about autism, who mention how ADHD is often comorbid with ASD and the two conditions often misdiagnosed. There's an article from 2020 in Spectrum News that has focused on how often Gender Diversity also overlaps with autism.
So what if GD was another expression of autism? That makes a lot of sense to me and remember... you heard it here first! If an association was firmly established, maybe politicians would ease off on their attacks on trans folk?
Here's stats from the article: from a survey of 640,000 people in 2017, 30k ( 5% ) of cisgender folk were autistic, whereas 895 ( 24% ) of gender diverse people are. A 2018 Australian survey found much the same, finding 22% of transgender adolescents were autistic compared to 2.5% on the general population.
The problem remains that politicians, weird cults and whacko doctors want to cure autism too.