Abolish the Department of Education?

[pecksniff]

A lot of RWs say that at random times as if it were common sense.

But, if we look around the world at all the countries whose educational systems are generally acknowledged to product better results than America's, the one thing they all have in common is centralized national control of the school system. In France, it is said, the Minister of Education always knows what page of what textbook all students of a given grade level are looking at at that monent.

The only thing wrong with the DoE is that it does not have enough power. No good will ever come of giving more and more autonomy to county school boards.

 

[neuroparenthetical]

The U.S. can't really be lumped in with other western countries, because it's basically been stuck in a cold civil war for 150+ years. 30%+ of the country is actively trying to destroy everything that makes it (closer to) a functional, pluralistic, tolerant, forward-thinking nation. They have enough political power to seize various parts of the grand machine on a fairly regular basis. When they do, it's a nightmare, and the "blue states" instantly remember why federalism is a clever idea.

I currently live in one of the highest-rated states in the union for educational outcomes. It's still a very problematic system, but trust me, further submission to Congress, SCOTUS, and the White House would not have done it any favors over the past few decades.

Until the civil war is resolved one way or the other, I just don't think you can make broad, sweeping proclamations like yours.

 

[Dribble]

And the CDC...EPA....FDA....USDA....

If the Republican led Courts are going to place politics in front of what these agencies were designed to do...why spend any money on them?

 

[Sh1ne0n67]

It produces as much education as the energy department produces energy...

It's a fop to the teacher's unions, at best.

 

[Dribble]

It produces as much education as the energy department produces energy...

It's a fop to the teacher's unions, at best.

Yea...having standards is bad. Having a National plan is bad. Having common teacher requirements is bad

 

[Sh1ne0n67]

The mistake here is that somewhere, someone believes they have successfully compared apples to oranges.

You list all of those like they're all good things, but like Twitter (keeping it topical)
the devil is in the details and who is writing the standardized "algorithms..."

We have to keep in mind that the DOE (the Bureaucracy, the Deep State)
slants decidedly Left and cares more about the subjective "fairness"
than it does the objective goal of educational meritocracy.

And as pointed out above, we have a diverse, polyglot nation
with no unified national goal. China's system, on paper
runs rings about ours (which implies that you have
to believe them, like their Covid death rates or
the great starvation of Shanghai) because
it is a meritocratic system where they
don't have to educated everyone.
Uighurs need not apply.

Are you advocating that kind of standard?

 

[Chobham]

Yea...having standards is bad. Having a National plan is bad. Having common teacher requirements is bad

Any standard will do, no matter how low it is.

As already pointed out most of those nations have a multi-path educational systems. They start winnowing the chaff early and shuffle the students off to different schools based on how they test. In other words they do exactly what our SCOTUS says can't be done.

Shit can the Dept. of Education and block grant $$$ to the states based on student head count. Eliminate the overhead.

 

[RobDownSouth]

It produces as much education as the energy department produces energy...

It's a fop to the teacher's unions, at best.

Once again, teh oh-so-familiar bogeyman of teh whackadoodle Right: "but....but...TEACHERS UNIONS"!

 

[Dribble]

Oh I am all for getting rid of all Federal Govt agencies. It leads us to the inevitable split up faster. I am sick of my taxes paying for Republican stupidity. Fuck them.

 

[Sh1ne0n67]

And I thought that it was the right who were vested in the idea of civil war.

And here I find an uncivil man of the Left.

Interesting...

 

[BabyBoomer50s]

I believe the Department of Education was created during the Carter administration. Prior to that, it was under the Department of Health, Education, and Welfare which no longer exists. Has education in the US gotten better or worse since then, and by what metrics?

 

[JohnnySavage]

To know what agencies and employees of the federal government that should be eliminated; just look to each October when the "non essentials" get a paid vacation until the next appropriations are passed.

If you are non essential, you shouldn't be on the tax payers payroll.

 

[icanhelp1]

Any standard will do, no matter how low it is.

As already pointed out most of those nations have a multi-path educational systems. They start winnowing the chaff early and shuffle the students off to different schools based on how they test. In other words they do exactly what our SCOTUS says can't be done.

Shit can the Dept. of Education and block grant $$$ to the states based on student head count. Eliminate the overhead.

Oh I am all for getting rid of all Federal Govt agencies. It leads us to the inevitable split up faster. I am sick of my taxes paying for Republican stupidity. Fuck them.

Well, stop whining and do something about it!

 

[SgtSpiderMan]

I believe the Department of Education was created during the Carter administration. Prior to that, it was under the Department of Health, Education, and Welfare which no longer exists. Has education in the US gotten better or worse since then, and by what metrics?

Incredibly better. More are completing high school, going to college and graduating from college.

 

[Rightguide]

A lot of RWs say that at random times as if it were common sense.

But, if we look around the world at all the countries whose educational systems are generally acknowledged to product better results than America's, the one thing they all have in common is centralized national control of the school system. In France, it is said, the Minister of Education always knows what page of what textbook all students of a given grade level are looking at at that monent.

The only thing wrong with the DoE is that it does not have enough power. No good will ever come of giving more and more autonomy to county school boards.

Damn good Idea. The states should be in charge of education.

 

[Dribble]

Well, stop whining and do something about it!

I am. I am letting Republicans destroy the country. Give a stupid person a rope and stand back...they always hang themselves. This assures a future for part of the country. You can't save everyone

 

[icanhelp1]

I am. I am letting Republicans destroy the country. Give a stupid person a rope and stand back...they always hang themselves. This assures a future for part of the country. You can't save everyone

Your mother trust you alone with rope? LMFAO

 

[Biggs_Darklighter]

Last time I went to school the DoE didn't exist. I turned out mostly ok. Mostly.

 

[pecksniff]

We have to keep in mind that the DOE (the Bureaucracy, the Deep State)
slants decidedly Left

You are delusional.

 

[pecksniff]

Damn good Idea. The states should be in charge of education.

They are now. That's not a good idea.

 

[BlueEyesInLevis]

Incredibly better. More are completing high school, going to college and graduating from college.

Then why are we competitively worse compared to other nations.
And how many of those with college degrees land jobs in the field of their education?
Many of those degrees being handed out now have less worth than the parchment paper they are printed on.

 

[SgtSpiderMan]

Then why are we competitively worse compared to other nations.
And how many of those with college degrees land jobs in the field of their education?
Many of those degrees being handed out now have less worth than the parchment paper they are printed on.

That’s a pretty big goal post move.
Other countries do better because they invest more money and more resources into education.

 

[neuroparenthetical]

It produces as much education as the energy department produces energy...

It's a fop to the teacher's unions, at best.

For an excellent example of how useless a (functional, responsible) energy department is, look no further than Texas last year. Oh. Wait.

The FDA doesn't produce any food or drugs, either. What a fop to, uh... to people who'd prefer not to have the invisible hand of the marketplace shoving random suppositories up in them until eventually, maybe, one of them works as advertised without a million unadvertised crippling side effects.

Hey, if enough people get cancer from a miracle cure - and also don't get cured - the marketplace will eventually correct for that, right? I mean, it's not like the flow of information itself can be incorporated into capitalism as a meta.

The Department of Education is dealing with an area that doesn't produce clear outcomes and outputs straight off the factory line. That is an issue, though hardly a unique one. Over time, however, patterns emerge. Over time, the scientific method wins out - at least as a measuring stick for reality. If we could get over the hump I wrote about above, it would absolutely serve a vital function.

 

[pecksniff]

The Department of Education is dealing with an area that doesn't produce clear outcomes and outputs straight off the factory line. That is an issue, though hardly a unique one. Over time, however, patterns emerge. Over time, the scientific method wins out - at least as a measuring stick for reality. If we could get over the hump I wrote about above, it would absolutely serve a vital function.

The hump you wrote about is the political polarization of America. I expect we will get over that, but only on a generational timescale, as the G.I. and Silent generations die off, the Baby Boomers retire, and power passes to the generally more progressive GenX and Millennial generations.

 

[BlueEyesInLevis]

That’s a pretty big goal post move.
Other countries do better because they invest more money and more resources into education.

No... they dont. We spend more per pupil than anyone.
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2018/sep/07/us-education-spending-finland-south-korea
According to this only tiny Luxemburg spends more. https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2019/10/education-spending-highest-school-brazil-chile-italy-mexico/