4th Republican presidential candidates debate tonight 11/10/15

KingOrfeo

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Sean Illing writes:

The fourth Republican presidential debate will be held tonight at the Milwaukee Theatre in Milwaukee, Wisconsin. The debate airs on Fox Business Network at 9 p.m. EST and will last a brisk two hours. Like the CNBC debate two weeks ago, the focus tonight will be the economy, specifically jobs and taxes. Despite all the hand-wringing from the GOP candidates about the format of previous debates, the Fox Business debate will proceed as originally planned. The big difference in this debate is the size of the field, which is noticeably smaller. Lindsey Graham and George Pataki have been eliminated from the junior varsity debate and Chris Christie and Mike Huckabee (because they failed to meet the 2.5 percent national polling average cutoff) have been booted from the varsity stage. That leaves eight candidates for the main event.

Here’s a brief candidate-by-candidate preview of what to expect tonight.

Donald Trump

Trump, despite slipping in some of the national polls, is still the front-runner. Carson has taken the lead in Iowa, but Iowa is an evangelical hotbed and was never a likely win for someone like Trump.

Trump remains well-positioned in the other early primary states and there’s no reason to expect him to fade any time soon. I don’t imagine he will have much of a strategy tonight – strategy isn’t really Trump’s shtick. At no point in the previous debates has Trump offered anything like a coherent thought or a sound policy proposal. And that won’t change tonight. People like Trump because they like his pompous persona, not his ideas. He’s already emasculated Jeb, the early establishment favorite, so I expect him to take a few shots at Rubio, the new establishment favorite. Now that Ben Carson is challenging Trump in the national polls, Trump is likely to ratchet up his attacks on Carson as well. And this is good for Trump. He’s best when he’s on the offensive, not when he’s explaining things. The more time he spends hammering low-energy losers like Carson and Rubio, the less time he spends defending his boastful ignorance.

Ben Carson

This will be a critical debate for Carson. His charming know-nothingism has served him well so far. Republican primary voters have rewarded his ignorance by catapulting him to the top of the polls. He’s uttered unspeakably stupid things about Nazis, global warming, evolution, women, slavery and Egyptian pyramids, but none of that has hurt him. But now that he’s a front-runner, he’s come under increased scrutiny. Suddenly Carson is on the defensive, and it’s not clear that he can handle it. Tonight he’ll be targeted by Trump, Rubio and others looking to capitalize on his misfortune. Carson’s nice guy routine worked better when he was an unserious outsider candidate, but now that he’s regarded as a legitimate threat, he’ll have to fend off attacks. If he stumbles tonight, his campaign might be in real trouble.

Marco Rubio

Rubio’s political stock is on the rise. Thanks in part to Jeb’s precipitous collapse, Rubio has emerged as the new establishment alternative to Bush. His goal tonight is to build on his momentum. If Rubio can’t solidify himself as the new “safe choice” for Republican insiders and donors, he risks becoming the latest flavor of the month candidate. At the last debate, Jeb tried and failed (as only Jeb can) to undercut Rubio by questioning his attendance record in the Senate. I expect Jeb to try something else tonight. I doubt it will work, but Rubio needs to be prepared for it in any case. Ted Cruz has also begun to position himself as the outsider alternative to Rubio, whom he’s pejoratively calling a “moderate.” It will be interesting to watch how Rubio handles this pressure from Cruz tonight.

Jeb Bush

Jeb is just about finished. He’s failed to win over the base and he’s floundered at every debate so far. It’s hard to see how Jeb gains any traction at this point. His donors are panicking publicly and many of them are already shifting their support to Rubio, who appears much more viable than Bush.

The truth is that Jeb is a weak candidate. He ran arrogantly on the assumption that his name and money would carry him to the nomination, but that’s not happening. Republican voters don’t like him and his political persona is ill-suited to the current climate. Jeb is trying to rebrand himself as a fixer, someone who lacks pizzaz but is capable of getting things done in Washington. Like everything else Jeb has done in this campaign, however, this message is perfectly tone deaf. The last thing the base wants right now is a pragmatist. I expect Jeb to peddle this theme tonight by contrasting himself with the inexperienced neophytes onstage, but it won’t work.

Ted Cruz

Cruz is as well-positioned any of the candidates right now. He has no chance of winning a general election, but he could easily win the Republican nomination. As I wrote yesterday, Cruz is playing the long game. His super PAC coffers are filled to the brim and he’s waiting, patiently, for Trump and Carson to fold. Assuming Trump and Carson collapse either before or at the Republican convention, Cruz is the logical alternative for their supporters, which is why he isn’t attacking them more aggressively. I expect Cruz to continue to dog whistle to religious and anti-government conservatives tonight, as these are his two main constituencies. Now that Huckabee is off the stage, moreover, there is one less theocrat to compete with Cruz, so he’ll likely take advantage of that as well.

John Kasich

Kasich has remained one of the more interesting candidates in the race. He’s a moderate Republican, by today’s standards, at least, and he’s said some reasonably sane things in previous debates. I applauded his courageous decision to side with Christ over Republican Christians in the first debate, for example, but Kasich’s compassionate conservatism isn’t resonating with Republican primary voters. Kasich is essentially tied with a fading Carly Fiorina at the moment, which tells you everything you need to know about his odds of winning this race. I doubt there’s much Kasich can do to change the dynamics of the race tonight, but I expect him to keep framing himself as an electable moderate. He’ll have to attack the front-runners, however, and so far he hasn’t been able to do that effectively.

Rand Paul

Rand Paul doesn’t matter. He barely met the 2.5 percent polling cutoff for this debate and he probably has less reason to be on that stage than someone like Chris Christie, who’s been down in the polls but has a higher political ceiling than Paul. In any event, Paul will be there tonight and nothing he says will resonate. From the beginning, his only real constituency has been the libertarian wing of the party, but, for whatever reason, they just aren’t into him.

Carly Fiorina

Like Rand Paul, Carly Fiorina doesn’t matter. After her inspiring, fact-free performance at the first debate, Fiorina became a contender, but that lasted all of a few weeks. Fiorina is currently hovering around 3 percent in the national polls and she appears to have no plan “B” now that she’s been outed by the fact-checkers.

Fiorina’s campaign has been pure performance art from the start. She’s only interesting as a case study in how far you can stretch the truth if you simply lie in the right tone. She’ll do well tonight in that she’ll say untrue things with remarkable confidence, but voters have clearly soured on her as a credible candidate.
 
I've always thought Cruz's potential was being underrated.

As for Bush, the new slogan "Jeb can fix it" is a little too on the nose for someone whose most notable accomplishment has been rigging a national election for his brother.
 
I think it goes without saying -- does anyone care to dispute it? -- that of the eight listed above, only Rubio, Bush and Kasich would have even a ghost of a prayer of winning in November 2016, regardless of whether the Dem nominee is Clinton, Sanders or O'Malley.
 
I think it goes without saying -- does anyone care to dispute it? -- that of the eight listed above, only Rubio, Bush and Kasich would have even a ghost of a prayer of winning in November 2016, regardless of whether the Dem nominee is Clinton, Sanders or O'Malley.

I think Trump has a better chance than Bush or Kasich. Rubio might be able to take it but I doubt it.
 
Rand Paul

Rand Paul doesn’t matter. He barely met the 2.5 percent polling cutoff for this debate and he probably has less reason to be on that stage than someone like Chris Christie, who’s been down in the polls but has a higher political ceiling than Paul. In any event, Paul will be there tonight and nothing he says will resonate. From the beginning, his only real constituency has been the libertarian wing of the party, but, for whatever reason, they just aren’t into him.
The reason is simple. Unlike his dad, he's a fake.
 
I think Trump has a better chance than Bush or Kasich.

At the nomination, certainly, but in the general election, no way. Trump's appeal is to the GOP's hard-base, which is big enough to determine the nomination but too small to swing the election.
 
At the nomination, certainly, but in the general election, no way. Trump's appeal is to the GOP's hard-base, which is big enough to determine the nomination but too small to swing the election.

I think your personal dislike of the guy has you underestimating his appeal to the RW and everyone looking for NOT another politician, esp after HpeN'Change J/K'ed us so hard. "I'm gonna fuck China up and bring American jobs back!" is going to pull some fuckin' votes....

You'll prob get Hillary in office though and we'll continue to send every job we can to some 3rd world slave camp. :D
 
First SNL and now another Rep. debate. It's like Comedy Central. Any chance of holding it in Montreal for the Just for Laughs festival.

I figure Rubino for the nomination. Once election gets underway media will drop clowns and concentrate on real politicians. Trump and Carson will drop real fast in polls once media stops highlighting their antics and weird ass ideas.

Trump and Carson sell newspapers (or equiv. modern media) and give late night talk show hosts fodder for monologues. That is why we hear about them more than those who could maybe do the job.

They are both just the equivalent of opening standup comedian acts before the real show begins. Gives folk a laugh and gets them in the mood to appreciate a real headline act.
 
At the nomination, certainly, but in the general election, no way. Trump's appeal is to the GOP's hard-base, which is big enough to determine the nomination but too small to swing the election.

Realistically speaking, about 30 to 40 percent of those who vote in national elections can be expected to vote for a Republican regardless of whose name is in the R slot on the ballot. On this basis, Trump will produce far more competitive numbers than his primary-campaign base would suggest. Still, because his appeal is relatively narrow, he will likely pull near the bottom of the likely range for a Republican candidate. And that bodes for a landslide victory for the Democratic candidate.
 
I think your personal dislike of the guy has you underestimating his appeal to the RW and everyone looking for NOT another politician, esp after HpeN'Change J/K'ed us so hard.

If Trump has to go one-on-one against HRC on the debate podium, he's going to look like a total idiot and an odious asshole -- even to those longing for a non-pol, if they're not the sort who would never ever vote D anyway.
 
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The Cost Of the Clown Car!

How ratings-driven presidential debates are destroying American democracy

Anyone curious about the state of American democracy should simply tune into the GOP debate series, whose next episode airs Tuesday night on Fox Business Network.

If the first two debates are any indication, advertisers will be clamoring to buy up commercial spots, especially after the “buzz” generated last week: special conditions demanded by the candidates, Trump’s controversial – though dull – SNL appearance and the Ben Carson “bombshell” that he never applied to West Point (as he’d previously claimed). Yes, the debate has the makings of another ratings bonanza.

Televised presidential debates originated in the 1960s, during TV’s golden era. But back then, networks ran news divisions at a loss in exchange for being granted a licensed monopoly over public airways by the FCC. Candidates, in exchange for the publicity, answered hard questions posed by moderators.

Today, the rules of the debate game have shifted to reflect a new media reality, one in which broadcasters have a powerful financial interest in promoting debates centered on entertainment, rather than substantive discussions of policy issues.

In fact, today’s debates can be likened to World Wrestling Entertainment: there are heroes and villains, winners and losers, entrance themes and announcers, drama and intrigue (will Biden show?) – even an “undercard.”

Like it or not, the democratic process has been usurped by an endless, ratings-driven spectacle. And for networks – with the debates’ stripped-down production costs and high ratings – it’s like hitting the mother lode.
 
If Trump has to go one-on-one against HRC on the debate podium, he's going to look like a total idiot and an odious asshole --

Yes yes we know you love Hillary just as much if not more than the DNC wants you to.

I get it you love the (D).

But not everyone is quite as enchanted with HRC's ability to stand up there and run her mouth all night without actually answering any questions or saying a single fucking thing of substance.

even to those longing for a non-pol, if they're not the sort who would never ever vote D anyway.

But I don't think this is entirely true. ^^ any (D) considered with making money outside of big (D) lock down is going to be eye fucking trump.
 
Yes yes we know you love Hillary just as much if not more than the DNC wants you to.

I get it you love the (D).

But not everyone is quite as enchanted with HRC's ability to stand up there and run her mouth all night without actually answering any questions or saying a single fucking thing of substance.



But I don't think this is entirely true. ^^ any (D) considered with making money outside of big (D) lock down is going to be eye fucking trump.

Here's a simple challenge: after tonight's debate, pull up a transcript of the debate and then copy-paste to this thread EVERY substantive policy statement that Trump makes tonight. Put up every one and then let's see who spends debate time side-stepping questions in order to avoid substance. you could be right, of course, but without actual hard data, how will we know?
 
Here's a simple challenge: after tonight's debate, pull up a transcript of the debate and then copy-paste to this thread EVERY substantive policy statement that Trump makes tonight. Put up every one and then let's see who spends debate time side-stepping questions in order to avoid substance. you could be right, of course, but without actual hard data, how will we know?

Sounds like a pain in the ass.

From what I've seen Trump doesn't sidestep like HRC does....he says crazy things because it gets people riled up then gets on a soapbox about them. He uses confrontation to get people excited then toss's them a 'simple' 'reasoned' solution to the frenzy and they go wild. HRC doesn't do that....she deflects, disarms and tells us everything will be unicorn farts and rivers of chocolate if we just trust her.

And currently that's the only act that has a hope of taking HRC out, because so many are already sold on HRC's unicorn farts even though we know damn well she's full of shit and looking to pimp M'uricuhs peachy ass out the highest bidders just like all the other establishment pols. None of the others stand a fucking chance using traditional political combat methods. The Bush name is ruined, Carson is a religious nut job and Rubio is 'to young' to win especially as a conservative and the left is too scared to vote Sanders.

As it stands now I think it's going to be Trump vs Clinton.
 
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Trump is far from a conservative. It amazes me the nutbase loves him as they do.
 
*hair stands on end*

Cruz, Huckabee, and Jindal

Death penalty for unrepentant gays.

(This is what they believe their Jesus the Christ, wants ?)
 
Doesn't change teh fact that it's got an appeal to the folks who are tired of the usual lines of bullshit.

Those usual lines of bullshit are far, far better and wiser than Trump's new ones. Heck, even Marxism would be.
 
Trump doesn't have the numbers to win the primary. Wok is right soon he'll be hit hard with the time he spent as a Dem and an Independent.

As an aside, watching what I've been able to if both debates, the commercials on Fox is painful.
 
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