Ok, I do have a question. Forgive me if it's been discussed.

How does one go about exploring the lighter aspects of BDSM within the confines of a very nilla relationship?

Certain aspects intrigue me, get to me, make me want to delve and explore and indulge. But, my husband is so not interested, it's nearly pathological.

I know that this isn't necessarily a BDSM topic, and so have refrained from posting. This is something that would figure into any relationship, I think. One partner wants to go somewhere, either sexually or otherwise, that the other partner has no interest in, or is even appalled by.

How do you broaden your boundaries without losing your partner?

Could you share with us a little bit about what you are wanting to explore, PCG? It might be easier for others to offer suggestions then. Are you interested in bondage? spankings? orgasm control?

I know you might feel shy about going into detail, but I think a little more information could help here.

Yes, yes and yes.

I've never engaged in anything like that. Anal seemed pretty damn kinky the first time, ya know?

There's the small matter of trust too. I don't know that I trust him not to think it's just all a game... the one time we had a pair of handcuffs, he thought it was hysterical to cuff me to a chair and leave me alone in my apartment for 3 hours. It wasn't sex play, it was just a mean trick.

I want these things, I think. I can't know for sure without the exploration. But the exploration isn't an option within the current confines of the relationship.

Yes, there are other problems, and yes, I know engaging in that sort of play with someone I don't completely trust wouldn't be smart anyway...

I personally would not try at this time to cross over into this area. I would how ever try to fix the others things going on which may help with they trust issue, and open the door at a later time. This is what I would do.
I was in a marriage where I could not cross from 'nilla to kink because I didn't feel my Husband could understand that to me it wasn't a game, to me it bared my soul. I told myself and Husband I would never cross that line again, since then the marriage has come to pass and soon after I started a friendship w/ my past Dom which lead into a relationship and now 3 year AH (after husband) I find myself feeling the desire that I long ago supressed.
I can't let somebody make a game out of what is my core.

Hiya, PCG!

I am very glad to see you posting.

You obviously have been lurking as you seem to have a grasp some of the essential points of kink, BDSM or whatever play leaves you totally vulnerable.

What is it you seek?

Does vulnerability turn you on?

What are the things that you have read about and thought, "I wonder if that would make me tingly too?"

BTW...I am pm ing you as well as I want to explore this further but not in a public forum.


Hugs

Miss T

pagancowgirl said:

There's the small matter of trust too. I don't know that I trust him not to think it's just all a game... the one time we had a pair of handcuffs, he thought it was hysterical to cuff me to a chair and leave me alone in my apartment for 3 hours. It wasn't sex play, it was just a mean trick.

I want these things, I think. I can't know for sure without the exploration. But the exploration isn't an option within the current confines of the relationship.

Yes, there are other problems, and yes, I know engaging in that sort of play with someone I don't completely trust wouldn't be smart anyway...

Click to expand...

I had gone away to think about your question, but when i came back and read this, i realized the answer i originally was going to give doesn't really fit.

It's been said over and over here, a BDSM relationship is a relationship before it's BDSM. If you don't feel safe in the relationship, don't trust him to follow SSC (Safe, Sane, Consensual) then you can't ever have a good BDSM relationship.

Read (or reread) the stickies at the top of this forum. Read some of the links for newbies that have been posted for others asking similar questions. Then think about whether you really can go toward any BDSM with him.

It concerns me that in any context, he would leave you alone for 3 hours in an incapacitated condition. To me, that is and always will be abusive.

Why do people post in public that they are pm'ing privately? Is it so everyone else will know that they're not invited into *that* private conversation. Why don't those people just pm? Why announce it to the world?

I see the same few people doing this over and over and not just here, either. Here there hasn't been a lot of, yet.

It's just plain rude.

Why post publicly that I am pming her?

Because the pop up notification doesn't work properly and I wanted her to know to check her pms.

Why pm her and post publicly?

To acknowledge her post, I posted the thread.

To answer the question and reflect on some personal information from last year, I posted privately.

So sorry if you think I was being rude....but it seemed necessary at the time.

The PM notification doesn't always work. Letting someone know to check for a PM isn't, in my opinion, rude.

There are many of us who don't want to share every facet of our lives publicly, on the board, but we will share it privately if we think it might be of some use to someone else.


You seem to be upset about the messages of pm's, but the majority of us here are more concerned with maintaining the community we have here. Unregistered posts which quickly turn into trolling are much more destructive.

when my partner and i have tried BDSM style things its always had a degree of being a laugh and being fun ... we've not taken it very serious to be honest but then as it has got hotter and more passionate with the sex play we were doing at the same time we've taken it a little more serious

if your partner isn't taking it serious enough to get to the passion part ... maybe you should domme him a little ... tying up play or something ... and then you could control it and when he saw how passionate it could be with the sex play to maybe he would be more serious when it came to tying you up also if there is a trust issue then maybe use bonds that dont forcible restrain ... such as silk so you could build up trust together without having to put yourself in a completely venerable place ... doing these small things would perhaps give you a better idea if you and him wanted to take it further

Have you tried more subtle roleplay? Like the Sultan and his slave girl? Nurse Cowgirl and her Cranky enema patient?

Do you trust him enough to discuss this? If not, just cover yourself in vanilla ice cream and call it good.

He may not find BDSM play sexually exciting and may not know how to react to your desire for it. Men are rather famous for reacting badly to just about everything that surprises them. Or he could just be a dickhead.

KillerMuffin said:

Nurse Cowgirl and her Cranky enema patient?

Ok, that actually cracked me up.

Do you trust him enough to discuss this? If not, just cover yourself in vanilla ice cream and call it good.

He may not find BDSM play sexually exciting and may not know how to react to your desire for it. Men are rather famous for reacting badly to just about everything that surprises them. Or he could just be a dickhead.

Click to expand...

In answer to a couple of other people that have raised communication questions... I have broached the subject... kind of. I've told him what sorts of stories I like to read... implied that I'd like to be restrained occasionally... but no, I haven't come right out and said "Spank my ass while you fuck it"

Yes, our relationship has other problems. Communication and respect of boundaries being the huge ones. I know that the current climate of the relationship isn't a good one to begin this sort of play... but the question I'm asking has a broader scope... how do you introduce the 'kink' into any relationship that doesn't start out that way?

I'm trying to cover everything in one post...

He knows about my sexual history... even the non-consensual parts of it. He thinks it's incredibly bizarre that I would want to engage in restraint 'play' when I've had very scary real life experience with it.

The rest of it is just weird to him... why would I want to delay orgasm? I should just want to have as many as I can starting NOW, right?

While I think role play would be fun, and I could really get into it, it's not his style. Sex is sex is sex. A little variety is ok, but the rules never change.

That's what I get for taking so long to type.

That's one of those funky things.

There are a couple of threads here about nilla spouse and BDSM-oriented posters, but none of them have ever had a satisfactory answer to the question. There really isn't one, I don't think, because each case is different and entirely dependent on the proclivities of the non-posting partner.

Can it happen? Sure can. It has.

Does it? Not very often.

In your own relationship, you already know this, both of you have to want to communicate openly.

In every couples' life there comes a time when they both must sit down and take stock. Where are we now, where do we want to be, where do we see ourselves in five years, ten years. What do we want to change, get rid of.

The problem is that both of you have to do it with honest, open communication. And you have to throw caution to the winds and trust him.

Men are not subtle creatures. If you can give him a signal, he'll misinterpret it. That's pretty much written in the male DNA. The only way to go is to sit him down outside of the bedroom while the kiddies are visiting grandparents or something, and have a frank and open discussion about your sexuality. No uncertain terms please. Tell him what you want and what you want from him. Ask what he wants and what he wants from you. Tell him what he's done to hurt you and what you're afraid of using non-accusatory language. "I'm afraid that you won't understand and might think it's all just a big joke like the time with the handcuffs. That scared me a lot and I lost a lot of trust. I want to explore kinkier sex and I want to do it with you, but I'm afraid of getting hurt again."

Bring him here if he has questions about what to do. Or not.

Not all BDSM is in the props. In fact the most important part is in the mental. The domination and submission. If you want him to play part-time dominant to your submissive. You are going to have to find out if he's interested in it enough to learn how to do it so neither of you get hurt.

This goes for everyone, not just you, actually.

And that's hitting the proverbial nail on the head isn't it?

Trust and communication... probably the biggest obstacles I need to overcome in all aspects of my relationship...

Thanks everyone, I've got more thinking to do.

Thank you ....

You've all just answered the very question I've been looking for answers to.

Although, if I don't feel comfortable having the frank discussion with him, is that a sign that perhaps I don't trust him enough to let him dominate me?

TR

Welcome to the BSDM forum, TR.

Read the stickies at the top and the links on this thread http://www.literotica.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=73517

They'll give you probably more questions to think about than answers, but by answering all the questions you'll understand where you are and what you want much better.

If you don't trust your SO enough to have a frank conversation about what you want/need, how can you ever get what you want/need from him?

Re: Thank you ....

trendyredhead said:

You've all just answered the very question I've been looking for answers to.

Although, if I don't feel comfortable having the frank discussion with him, is that a sign that perhaps I don't trust him enough to let him dominate me?

TR

Click to expand...

First of all, welcome to the boards, redhead!

Only you know how much you trust him. Introducing kink or BDSM into a conversation can make you squirm a bit.

We wonder, "what will they think?" "Will they think I am a freak because I want....?"

I would suggest introducing it slowly. Perhaps sharing tiny fantasies or reading stories from lit.

As you talk about it, even tongue in cheek, it will begin to feel more comfortable for both of you. Then, you could have a serious discussion.

However, I am not one to take advice from on this issue, I am just guessing. I haven't been in this position yet.

Ahhhh the inevitable disclaimer!

Unregistered said:

Yes, our relationship has other problems. Communication and respect of boundaries being the huge ones. I know that the current climate of the relationship isn't a good one to begin this sort of play... but the question I'm asking has a broader scope... how do you introduce the 'kink' into any relationship that doesn't start out that way?

Click to expand...

Communication can be improved, but it takes a lot of work. I know what it's like to try to trust someone when you have a history to overcome, when trusting someone--ANYONE--seems like the most dangerous thing you can possibly do. You don't have to jump right into the deep end with this, either. Baby steps go a long way, I think.

It's been said many times here that you can't make a 'nilla into a kink, and it's true. However, you can do a hell of a lot of exploring before determining that someone's 'nilla. Right now, this is all new ground for you also, right? So, there's no need to jump immediately to the *worst* possible outcome--that your sexual desires are and will always be incompatible. And even if your desires are a bit more varied than his tastes, there's a lot you can do still to compromise between your fantasies and his limits. Unless you're just unbelievably dissatisfied with your sexual connection, it seems to me that there's still room for growth and improved communication/trust here.

While I think role play would be fun, and I could really get into it, it's not his style. Sex is sex is sex. A little variety is ok, but the rules never change.

Click to expand...

Okay, but this is still workable. If variety is okay, and he's already into things that *some* consider quite kinky (like anal), there's a little wiggle room here.

If it were me, [insert mandatory disclaimer about personal opinions here] I'd consider trying a few very mild variations that broach the subject. Things like a blindfold can go a long way; it's non-threatening, it shifts the power, and it doesn't *hurt* anybody. One of the big fears is that 'M' part of BDSM, in my experience; starting with things that don't draw to mind the 'whips and chains' stereotypes can help alleviate that fear.

It could be something as simple as telling him you'd like to be blindfolded next time you have sex, letting him know that the surprise turns you on--or even *might* turn you on. Or, you could put your hands behind your back when you give oral; leave the direction of your movements up to him, get him to use his hands and voice. If that works for you both, then you can talk about it and discuss what you both got from the experience. And then the door's open a crack; a tiny crack of light is how every sunrise starts.

Of course, that's just me. I have been wrong, and will be again. But, it's worth thought, and it worked on my small-Mormon-town country boy.

I'm glad you finally spoke up, darlin'. Welcome! You know I'm one of your biggest fans, don't you? For you~~

I can address this from the other perspective, I have been the partner who needs the coaxing.
I think that as a man, you don't want to think that your woman is unsatisfied with your sex life, and so when she brings up new things to try, you get defensive and feel like you are being accussed of how being good enough to keep her satisfied. That may not be the smartest way to look at it, but it's natural to a man, I believe.
At the same time, there is always that fear that if you dont do these things with her, she will find someone who will. To me, that fear outweighted any other consideration, and so I went along with some of her fantasies, and I found that I was enjoying myself as well. Now, maybe this is not proper dominant thinking, but the fact that she enjoyed things so much made me enjoy doing them too. The biggest turn on for me is turning her on.

I have a question about what exactly people mean when they talk about trust. Do you mean trusting him to not be abusive or trust him that he knows what he is doing, BDSM-wise? Or both?

pagancowgirl said:

Trust and communication... probably the biggest obstacles I need to overcome in all aspects of my relationship...

Click to expand...

I hope you don't mind a male's point of view in this conversation. I just now noticed the thread.
I agree on quite a bit of what has been posted, and it does seem the trust is missing in this relationship. Communication is not good, either. Leaving someone cuffed to a chair for any length of time is rediculous, let alone, 3 hours. I would be curious to know what he said when he finally released you.

The reason I am asking this is that doesn't seem like a normal thing to do to your wife. Was there maybe an argument proceeding? I understand, if you don't want to say, so I will only say this...

The trust HAS to be there in this sort of thing. You have to feel secure that when you are tied up, he is not going to leave you there alone for 3 fucking hours. That is what you have to get through to him. If he can't understand that, you can't continue until he does.

If this is truly a vanilla man (is there such a thing?), he may not go for this without some explaining. Sitting him down and talking about it face to face, heart to heart is first. Open up to what you want and tell him why you want it.

If he is open to being the one tied up, that is an option. I think someone else suggested this. I know it would be good to feel what my partner is feeling, if only just to understand where she is coming from. This also helps because he is then more aware of what he is doing for you.

He doesn't understand that you want to delay orgasms? Tie him up and play that game with him. Be very sexy in this, and keep his interest for the whole time. He will then understand how much more powerful his orgasm is when delayed, and then maybe understand. I can picture some whipped cream or chocolate syrup or whatever you like to use. The whole trick is to keep his interest, so he enjoys his little submissive feelings until you finally have him nearly begging to cum. Torment his cock in all of those little areas where he likes it, but not too much. Maybe a blindfold would be nice, so all he is aware of is what you do to his cock. That would also help delay his orgasm, because men do like to watch when getting oral sex.

If he won't allow you to tie him down, you could try it with out, first. Still take the control, but keep him interested. It won't be as powerful, but maybe he will let you tie him up the next time.

Don't expect it all to happen in one wonderful night. Take it in steps. You are actually teaching him. Nobody learns everything at once. And, it is new and strange to him, so he may have to get past that, before any learning starts.

Be patient. Go slow. Be creative. Have fun. If it is in him, you can bring it out.

MotorCitySam said:

I have a question about what exactly people mean when they talk about trust. Do you mean trusting him to not be abusive or trust him that he knows what he is doing, BDSM-wise? Or both?

Click to expand...

Beware, as this answer is applicable only to what *I* mean by trust.
Trust is...
--knowing that they won't use your fantasies and desires as an excuse to abuse you.
--knowing that they'll honor safe-words and other measures which protect the submissive/bottom from unintentional and even (potentially) permanent harm.
--being able to discuss your desires and fantasies openly and honestly, without hedging your bets or concealing your innermost self, and knowing that your partner won't judge you
--getting responses to one's expressions of intimate truth and honest inquiry, actual conversational *exchange* in which your partner exposes themselves and their hidden, most private selves. An atmosphere in which *BOTH* partners are honest, open, and supportive of each other--even when you disagree, have different desires, or even fundamentally don't "get" what the other person's struggling to express and understand for/about themselves.

Thoughts on trust...

MotorCitySam said:

I have a question about what exactly people mean when they talk about trust. Do you mean trusting him to not be abusive or trust him that he knows what he is doing, BDSM-wise? Or both?

Click to expand...

For me, it's about trusting that he won't think I'm a freak, that he'll take it seriously and not make light of something (like others have said, I think this would be an emotional as well as physical experience, and would like it to be treated as such, rather than "just some weird kinky sex thing"), that yes, he'd be safe/sane/consensual (although my very nilla husband would err on the side of caution, I think, and perhaps not take it as far as I'd prefer).... these kinds of things.

TR

Sam, I believe I see the distinction you are drawing, but it is actually a false distinction.
Yes, trusting that if someone says "Dont worry, I know how to use a bullwhip", they really do know how to use it safely is an important concern, but it is a part of, not separate from, overall trust in your partner.
It isnt pushing too far to say that someone who uses an implement or technique in a cavalier way and causes harm through their arrogance is an abuser. A submissive should be able to trust that their dominant will not put them at risk in that manner.So it's all part and parcel of the same thing.

Oh, and Sam- there is nothing un-domlike in wanting to please your partner!

pcg?
Don't listen to Risia; i'm your biggest fan.

And, uh, i have nothing at all of substance to add to your question, either. Everything good and true and right and worthwhile has been said by everyone else and i'm left only with this: NICE fucking av, darlin'!

MotorCitySam said:

I have a question about what exactly people mean when they talk about trust. Do you mean trusting him to not be abusive or trust him that he knows what he is doing, BDSM-wise? Or both?

Click to expand...

Trust in BDSM relationships is the foundation upon which everything else is built.

That the above statement is true for most human love relationships can be successfully argued, of course, but within a BDSM relationship, if the trust is abused, then the relationship crumbles and falters and is lost. There is rarely a second chance within BDSM relationships.

We can only do what we do with each other, take the kinds of risks we take-emotional and physical-with each other because[/i] we trust so deeply, so fundamentally.

We trust our Dom/mes not to abuse us, yes, but that's just a surfface kind of trust. Below that, we trust our Dominant to use their knowledge of who we are at our core not only not to hurt us but to improve us, to make us better people, to help us grow.

We trust them to fit under our skin and into our minds in a way that will be of benefit to us, in and out of the bedroom.

We trust them to keep us safe, to care for our well-being, to play with us as if our safety was more important than their own - while pushing us into new and exciting places that might hurt but OHHH! - the glorious rush of pleasure past that hurt, for us both.

We trust them with our most secret desires.
We trust them with our souls.
We trust them to be the good people we believe them to be.

If the fullness of time reveals them as more flawed then we thought, as less deserving of our trust, then we shed tears for lost illusions and move on.

Isn't that sort of the way every good human love relationship works? With us though, because our roles are so highly stylized, so formalized, so power-shifted such a blazingly aware manner, the flow of trust between partners is incredibly crucial to the ongoing intimacy in BDSM relationships.