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View Poll Results: How much do you adore DGE?
I would give him both my kidneys if he asked...and maybe if he didn't 2 16.67%
I've started a cult with DGE as my figurehead/god-like leader 3 25.00%
DGE>Chuck Norris 5 41.67%
Who is DGE and what did he do with my gum??? 6 50.00%
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 12. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 08-15-2012, 01:56 PM   #1
Keroin
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Question for e-book readers/ How Much Do You Adore DGE? Take My Poll!

I just thought the first thread title was too lame (even if it is the actual question). I do have a reputation to uphold now.

OK, first the REAL question...

I've run into a formatting issue as my partner and I prepare our manuscript for e-publishing. It seems to be an e-book standard that scene breaks are marked with three asterisks (***) or something similar, but what about soft breaks like POV switches and short passages of time in the same scene? In print books, this is usually handled with an extra line space or a change in font, but in e-books you have no idea how your pages will read on each device - line breaks can get lost at the top of the page and your font change will most likely get lost.

I don't want to indicate soft breaks with asterisks because this tells the reader the 'scene' has changed. But I don't want to confuse them, either.

For those of you with e-readers, how are soft breaks handled in the books you read? Is there any kind of formatting for this that you like or dislike? Why?

Also, please feel free to discuss your adoration of DGE. No judgment here.
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Old 08-15-2012, 02:16 PM   #2
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I can't vote until I see necked DGE pics, and eyes pics, need those too.



Also can't help with e-reader question, sorry I'm useless today.
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Old 08-15-2012, 06:41 PM   #3
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Is there some way you could replicate the print book format you're talking about here? I'm blanking on what it is you're trying to do.
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Old 08-15-2012, 07:05 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by midwestyankee View Post
Is there some way you could replicate the print book format you're talking about here? I'm blanking on what it is you're trying to do.
When typesetters format books, they generally do so that the soft scene breaks don't fall at the very bottom or top of a page. Generally, soft scene breaks are indicated by extra spaces between paragraphs.

The problem is that you can't control how the pages will render on e-readers. You can still put in the extra spaces but if the reader sets the font size higher, for example, that is going to change how many lines of text will appear on each page. If the spaces fall at the bottom of the page, or the top, the reader won't realize there has actually been a soft break and this can be really confusing if there's a POV switch or a small jump forward in time.

I could use asterisks, or something similar, but that is generally an indication of a hard break - i.e. the story has either changed location or has jumped forward in time quite a bit.

Does that make sense?
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Old 08-15-2012, 07:06 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Loverskitten View Post
I can't vote until I see necked DGE pics, and eyes pics, need those too.
I'll have my people call his people.


Quote:
Also can't help with e-reader question, sorry I'm useless today.
Ummmm, you could sing me a song or something? I'm easily pleased.
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Old 08-15-2012, 07:11 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Keroin View Post
When typesetters format books, they generally do so that the soft scene breaks don't fall at the very bottom or top of a page. Generally, soft scene breaks are indicated by extra spaces between paragraphs.

The problem is that you can't control how the pages will render on e-readers. You can still put in the extra spaces but if the reader sets the font size higher, for example, that is going to change how many lines of text will appear on each page. If the spaces fall at the bottom of the page, or the top, the reader won't realize there has actually been a soft break and this can be really confusing if there's a POV switch or a small jump forward in time.

I could use asterisks, or something similar, but that is generally an indication of a hard break - i.e. the story has either changed location or has jumped forward in time quite a bit.

Does that make sense?
I'm not sure I have any useful advice for you, but I would say not to worry about it *too* much. Some e-books are just SO badly formatted that I've gotten used to figuring it out as I go along, so if I get confused, I don't stay that way very long (usually). My guess is that other people who read e-books have had the same experience. We can sort it out, I promise.

When this bad boy comes out, you will pimp it on the forum, yes? Or at least send PMs to interested parties? I wanna help support your writing habit.
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Old 08-15-2012, 07:12 PM   #7
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I'm not much help at this point, except to say I have noticed some e books are very poorly formatted which makes reading difficult. For what you are asking, you might check out the E-publishing thread in the Authors Hangout...if you haven't already..and perhaps ask those there who are experienced with online publishing and all it entails.

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Old 08-15-2012, 07:45 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BiBunny View Post
I'm not sure I have any useful advice for you, but I would say not to worry about it *too* much. Some e-books are just SO badly formatted that I've gotten used to figuring it out as I go along, so if I get confused, I don't stay that way very long (usually). My guess is that other people who read e-books have had the same experience. We can sort it out, I promise.

When this bad boy comes out, you will pimp it on the forum, yes? Or at least send PMs to interested parties? I wanna help support your writing habit.
Thanks, BB! We are shooting for as-professional-as-possible-with-no-budget but I do understand we'll likely run into some issues.

And yes, I will pimp out my baby on Lit like a two dollar whore.

(There will likely be some free copies )

Quote:
Originally Posted by catalina_francisco View Post
I'm not much help at this point, except to say I have noticed some e books are very poorly formatted which makes reading difficult. For what you are asking, you might check out the E-publishing thread in the Authors Hangout...if you haven't already..and perhaps ask those there who are experienced with online publishing and all it entails.

Catalina
Thanks Cat! I will pop on over.
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Old 08-15-2012, 09:59 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BiBunny View Post
I'm not sure I have any useful advice for you, but I would say not to worry about it *too* much. Some e-books are just SO badly formatted that I've gotten used to figuring it out as I go along, so if I get confused, I don't stay that way very long (usually). My guess is that other people who read e-books have had the same experience. We can sort it out, I promise.

When this bad boy comes out, you will pimp it on the forum, yes? Or at least send PMs to interested parties? I wanna help support your writing habit.
Yup, same here. Once I get a few 'pages' along, I can usually figure out what the intended formatting is. I've only run into one (of about 180) e-books, so far, that was almost too tough to read because of formatting.

Good luck with the imminent birthing!
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Old 08-16-2012, 12:25 AM   #10
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K, you continue to impress with your deeply trenchant and topical thread titles. It's like a beautiful, beautiful gift that you unwrap at the gym on your phone, but a gift you have to shield by tilting your phone away from the old man next to you in the locker room, who is asking about why they don't have towels anymore, and may not want to see a suggestive photo of a woman swimming underwater, with a toothy grin. That sort of gift.

You've probably perused this site, but the thread seemed to get quite involved and animated about asterisks, and soft scene breaks, and Lord knows what else. Someone thanked someone else at the end for solving something, so my hunch is that I've completely fixed your problem:

http://www.mobileread.com/forums/arc.../t-118162.html

Also, I will trade Loverskitten shots of my neckid eye ripping a bodice, with the wind blowing through its retina on a moonlit night.

For gum.
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Old 08-16-2012, 04:02 AM   #11
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I voted that he's better than Chuck Norris, but .... I can't STAND chuck Norris. I like slugs better than I like Chuck Norris.
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Old 08-16-2012, 11:52 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by desertslave View Post
Yup, same here. Once I get a few 'pages' along, I can usually figure out what the intended formatting is. I've only run into one (of about 180) e-books, so far, that was almost too tough to read because of formatting.

Good luck with the imminent birthing!
Well, that is good news. I do hope we're not that 1 in 180 book though!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by DeepGreenEyes View Post
K, you continue to impress with your deeply trenchant and topical thread titles. It's like a beautiful, beautiful gift that you unwrap at the gym on your phone, but a gift you have to shield by tilting your phone away from the old man next to you in the locker room, who is asking about why they don't have towels anymore, and may not want to see a suggestive photo of a woman swimming underwater, with a toothy grin. That sort of gift.

You've probably perused this site, but the thread seemed to get quite involved and animated about asterisks, and soft scene breaks, and Lord knows what else. Someone thanked someone else at the end for solving something, so my hunch is that I've completely fixed your problem:

http://www.mobileread.com/forums/arc.../t-118162.html

Also, I will trade Loverskitten shots of my neckid eye ripping a bodice, with the wind blowing through its retina on a moonlit night.

For gum.
10 points for best stream-of-consciousness post of the day!

Also, thank you for link. I did actually find that one on my own but didn't find it 'completely' answered my question. Yes I am a perfectionist. Yes my writing partner suffers endlessly because of this. Yes I like gum.

Quote:
Originally Posted by graceanne View Post
I voted that he's better than Chuck Norris, but .... I can't STAND chuck Norris. I like slugs better than I like Chuck Norris.
But do you like DGE better than slugs? That's the really question, I think.
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Old 08-16-2012, 02:33 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DeepGreenEyes View Post
Also, I will trade Loverskitten shots of my neckid eye ripping a bodice, with the wind blowing through its retina on a moonlit night.

For gum.
Lucky kitty gums for you
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Old 08-16-2012, 04:18 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Keroin View Post
When typesetters format books, they generally do so that the soft scene breaks don't fall at the very bottom or top of a page. Generally, soft scene breaks are indicated by extra spaces between paragraphs.

The problem is that you can't control how the pages will render on e-readers. You can still put in the extra spaces but if the reader sets the font size higher, for example, that is going to change how many lines of text will appear on each page. If the spaces fall at the bottom of the page, or the top, the reader won't realize there has actually been a soft break and this can be really confusing if there's a POV switch or a small jump forward in time.

I could use asterisks, or something similar, but that is generally an indication of a hard break - i.e. the story has either changed location or has jumped forward in time quite a bit.

Does that make sense?
Since you give up control over the unprinted page space by converting to e-book format, there is no solution other than to rely on cues in your text, which you can control. I hate asterisks, even as markers of hard scene breaks. If a writer has to rely on typography to tell me that the time or place (or both) has changed, he missed some lessons somewhere. How would you solve this problem in a script for a books-on-tape narrator?
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Old 08-16-2012, 04:26 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by graceanne View Post
I voted that he's better than Chuck Norris, but .... I can't STAND chuck Norris. I like slugs better than I like Chuck Norris.

I have a pet kidney-eating banana slug, with green eye stalks, named Chuck Norris.

Kiss him.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Keroin View Post
10 points for best stream-of-consciousness post of the day!

Also, thank you for link. I did actually find that one on my own but didn't find it 'completely' answered my question. Yes I am a perfectionist. Yes my writing partner suffers endlessly because of this. Yes I like gum.

But do you like DGE better than slugs? That's the really question, I think.
I figured you'd seen it. Seeing as how, you know, you have the capacity of the Google and all. So I assume what they said made sense to you? It sounded to me like it depends on what you're using to produce your book, and what format, as to whether there's a chance of fixing this issue. Is there an alternate ebook standard developing among writers? Say, one asterisk instead of three for a soft scene break? Seems like three ellipses centered, would work (maybe spaced out) because they'd be more subtle than three asterisks, although you'd probably want to do whatever the standard is.

Technology will eventually fix this, just as it will climate change, so there's no need on either count to worry or act further. The end. Cue soft scene break:

. . .


Quote:
Originally Posted by Loverskitten View Post
Lucky kitty gums for you
Thank you. That's very lucky. I don't mean to seem ungrateful, but those aren't mummified kitty testicles, are they?

'Cause those are delicious.
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Old 08-16-2012, 06:19 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by midwestyankee View Post
Since you give up control over the unprinted page space by converting to e-book format, there is no solution other than to rely on cues in your text, which you can control. I hate asterisks, even as markers of hard scene breaks. If a writer has to rely on typography to tell me that the time or place (or both) has changed, he missed some lessons somewhere. How would you solve this problem in a script for a books-on-tape narrator?
Well, time and place is not such a big deal. POV switch is more so. It's not a HUGE deal for us but we do have some POV switches that take place in-scene (though I tried to limit them and/or make the switch clear). And near the end, which is a "thrilling roller coaster ride of non-stop adrenalin!"*, there are some rapid time jumps and scene changes.

But all-in-all the feedback I seem to be getting most is just use line breaks, hope for the best, and the readers will generally be tolerant.

In a script for an audio book, I imagine they would use line breaks?

Which reminds me, when we're ready to record how would you feel about a trip to Nelson?

*The review I imagine us getting one day - of both book and hit HBO series.
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Old 08-16-2012, 08:21 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Keroin View Post
Well, time and place is not such a big deal. POV switch is more so. It's not a HUGE deal for us but we do have some POV switches that take place in-scene (though I tried to limit them and/or make the switch clear). And near the end, which is a "thrilling roller coaster ride of non-stop adrenalin!"*, there are some rapid time jumps and scene changes.

But all-in-all the feedback I seem to be getting most is just use line breaks, hope for the best, and the readers will generally be tolerant.

In a script for an audio book, I imagine they would use line breaks?

Which reminds me, when we're ready to record how would you feel about a trip to Nelson?

*The review I imagine us getting one day - of both book and hit HBO series.
Just give me a couple weeks notice so I can stock up on bear repellant.
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Old 08-16-2012, 11:11 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Keroin View Post
But do you like DGE better than slugs? That's the really question, I think.
Yes, that's a question. However, it's not an option on the poll, so I don't have to answer it. *pbth*

Quote:
Originally Posted by DeepGreenEyes View Post
I have a pet kidney-eating banana slug, with green eye stalks, named Chuck Norris.

Kiss him.
Make me.
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Old 08-17-2012, 10:37 PM   #19
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He is like the cool kid in school and I alas am the nerd who can only adore him from afar
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Old 08-18-2012, 11:10 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by graceanne View Post
Yes, that's a question. However, it's not an option on the poll, so I don't have to answer it. *pbth*

Make me.
I will leave a trail of silver slime all over your front walk. Bwahahahahahaahah!!!

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He is like the cool kid in school and I alas am the nerd who can only adore him from afar
I was the fucking coolest dork around.



I think I would've recognized you, though. The topless girl with the green underwear at the next lunch table.
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