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A weighty issue

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CutieMouse

Meticulously Flighty
Joined
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... and possibly controversial subject.

I've spent some time receintly thinking about weight issues. As a society, Americans are growing increasingly larger. Some of that is due to lifestyle changes (more people work 40+ hours a week in front of a computer/free time spent... in front of a computer), and some of it due to things like bovine growth hormones in dairy products, vitamins, etc. Food portions increasing over the years hasn't helped any, either. The New England Journal of Medicine will publish two studies this week, which connect being even somewhat overweight, with increased health issues.

Because of my business dealings, I may be more sensitive to the size thing on a daily basis-

In 1950 the average woman wore a size 8 (a vintage size 8 is about a 24" waist, or a modern size 4-ish).

Today, the average woman is a size 14.


Now if roughly 60% of the American population is obese, then it seems logical that there are similar numbers of obese/overweight persons participating in BDSM-related activites. (My attendance at a Leatherfest weekend a few years ago, supports this admittedly loose theory.)

How does obesity impact kink? Do overweight PYLs/pyls have to work around risks of certain things, due to health issues, brought on by weight? Are there overweight people in the BDSM community (some might suggest more so than in the vanilla community) for any particular reason? How do weight issues affect esteem issues, and how does that impact BDSM dynamics? Are we non-judgemental enough that overweight people are more accepted in the Lifestyle, than in the rest of society? Do PYLs/pyls have a responsibility to be in the best possible health (or working towards it) as part of participating in the Lifestyle?

I'm not intending this as a bash on/make people feel bad about weight/size discussion, and hope (pray... trust), it won't become one. I honestly would like to discuss how issues such as weight, which can be annoying enough in everyday Life, cross over and impact kink-related activites, and how it's dealt with.
 
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Ok. I'm overweight. I am not going to disclose sizes or pounds, but suffice it to say that my health is endangered by my weight (i'm about 75 lbs overweight). I also really struggle to loose weight, cause every time I get sick I slowly start to starve. Wait, it's not slow. I've lost up to 30 lbs in a month during a flair. My body worries that that'll happen again, and the fact that I only absorb about half of the food I eat (and I don't eat enough) ensures that my metablosim is very slow. I actually loose weight faster when I'm eating more. lol The other issues is that this is the first time in five years I've been without prednisone for more than a year. (Prednisone is a steroid and causes massive weight gain - I've gained 50 lbs in a month on it.) Anyway,


How does obesity impact kink? Do overweight PYLs/pyls have to work around risks of certain things, due to health issues, brought on by weight?
Click to expand...
It definately affects us. I also have arthritis, but beyond that if I kneel where I"m sitting on my legs I cut off circulation to my lower legs and eventually am in a bad kind of pain. (I can't kneel anyway, so it's moot point. When I kneel my knees pop, and then I have trouble walking the next day.)

How do weight issues affect esteem issues, and how does that impact BDSM dynamics?
Click to expand...
I'm not sure about how it impacts bdsm dymanics, but it plays hell with my self esteem. When we play, or have sex, if he wants the lights on he has to blind fold me, cause if I see myself I loose the mood. I hate seeing my naked body in the mirror, it makes me deppressed sometimes to the point of being suicidal. K says I'm sexy and beautiful, and I know that he truelly believes that, but I don't agree. I'm fat and gross. I've seriously considered doing speed, cause I know it'd make me skinny again. My ten year highschool reunion is coming up and I probably won't go. I don't want anyone to see me looking like this.

Are we non-judgemental enough that overweight people are more accepted in the Lifestyle, than in the rest of society? Do PYLs/pyls have a responsibility to be in the best possible health (or working towards it) as part of participating in the Lifestyle?
Click to expand...
I don't know. I've never been to a munch, or anything remotely bdsmish. I'd suspect that predudice against overweight people is the same there as in real life (in other words 50/50). I've seen comments here and there about fat people. (Remember whatshisnames comment to that chick about her . . . what did he call it? gunt? gut + cunt.) It matters little to me. The day I let anyone but K see my naked is the day hell freezes over.
 
Thank you for adding your thoughts Gracie. :rose: It must be really frustrating to have health complications, which contribute to a weight issue, which contribute to health complictions.

As I'm sure you know, there is a difference between being *healthy*, and being *skinny*- so no speed for you, young lady. ;)
 
it's very interesting that you bring this up now to me as we've just added an amendment to our contract so to speak. I've always been heavy, at my smallest I was a size 10 and 175lbs, when I got married a combination of depression, PCOS, and sudden inactivity brought me to my heaviest some where in the range of size 24/26 and 350+lbs (I'm not sure the actual weight or size as I stopped using scales and stopped buying new clothes only wearing ones with stretch bands that bairly fit after reaching these points). After leaving that marriage, and at the same time getting involved in BDSM I lost well over 100lbs and am now fluctuating between 200 and 215 and am a small size 16. I was imbarrassed by my weight and actually met my Master because I was trying to boost my self esteme with posting pics. Which in it's self was probably a dangerous thing, but was the way I chose. My friends who were also introducing me to BDSM were also very helpful in that boost. There was just something in the way one of my friends would pull my head back by my hair and say something like "you're looking hot today wenchie" that sent chills up my spine and made me smile and blush. The more confidence I gained the more weight I lost, and the more comfortable I was with myself hince I was more comfortable in exploring other areas of myself.

I'm also hypoglycemic, which when I'm heavier sort of acts up more and has to be watched more closely with a stricter diet. But it's also something that has to be watched while in play. What may look like I'm subbing out could really be my sugar bottoming out which is not good and means I need a peanutbutter and oj break to get me back up. This is something all my play partners are aware of, and one reason I am usually asked if I've eaten before play. That question used to bother me when my self esteme was not great, but I tried then and now know it's one of looking out for me and not a comment on my weight.

How ever, after 2 years of a diet change where I was not eating fried foods more than once a week, I got into a bad habbit (just in the past 2 months) of eating fries and chicken nuggets at work. I tried to break this habbit myself, but just couldn't seem to kick it and as I watched the scale climb up from 200 to 215 to 220 I decided I needed to do something. At first I just couldn't come up with how I could stop this snacking. Then one night it hit me. Master has a responcibility to take care of me and to help me grow in any way he/we see is nessisary. If I'm snacking, and I know it's affecting my over all health, and wish to stop, he should be more than willing to help me. So one night I told him about the habbit and he was more than willing to help me break it. So I wrote up an email as I am always required to do when we agree to some new play or punishment, and other than one incident it's working.

He did make a comment that made me feel good in a weird way, "I just never thought you wanted to be skinny is all". *giggles* We laughed about that, but it's made me think. I have ran into a few guys who wanted to change my appearance one way or the other, and tried to force it upon me. With this comment, it made me realize, yes he would enjoy his little slut in a smaller size, but if I was happy then he was happy. The minute that it became clear to him that I wasn't happy with it, he took action, without hesitation. And I realized, the reason I'm so confident now, the reason I'm not asshamed to post my numbers, is because of his love and suport of me no matter what shape or size I am. Something along the lines of because I know he'll love me no matter how I look, I want to look my best for him. And because he's always incouraging of me, I always feel I look my best for him.

I hope I've made some since as it's 3am here and I just sort of started rambling on. :eek:
 
I'm overweight. I'm a 16 now, which is 14 in US sizes.
I gained this weight about 10 years ago - okay, counting back make it 12 or so, I think - when I was part of the last patient study for Effexor before it was put on the market here. It worsened my anxiety disorder, which was bad because no one had diagnosed it yet, and in the two years I was on the drug I gained 96 pounds. (If any of you are surprised I was on it for that long with the negative side effect, my depression inventory scores showed it was helping.) I also felt like I was going insane. Before that, I didn't really HAVE a weight problem. Sometimes I carried around 20 pounds more than I should, sometimes I didn't.

As someone who remembers how they were treated when they were thin, I can say that being overweight SHREDS self-esteem, in a veriety of ways.

Weight affects every single portion of life, even the tiniest thing like getting out of the car. It's only recently that I can tie my shoes without feeling discomfort.
So when you ask how BDSM affects kink, I assume you mean other than that? Or do you want where they intersect too? I can't spend long on my knees, like gracie, because I have osteoarthritis, but I'm more flexible than I used to be, due to crawling around on the floor with JKs. Life affects kink, and vice versa.

The question that intrigues me is this:
CutieMouse said:
Do PYLs/pyls have a responsibility to be in the best possible health (or working towards it) as part of participating in the Lifestyle?
Click to expand...

I think that's something that has to be negotiated between individual partners. There are even those who prefer those who are overweight. Obviously if you are going to be participating in extreme kink, it is much less risky for you and your partner to be in good health.

HOWEVER
Ultimately? I don't think you have a responsibility to be in the best possibility to be in the best possible health as some sort of price of admission to the lifestyle. I DO think that we do have a responsibility to ourselves to improve our health. The increased safety is an added benefit, and an added incentive.
 
brioche said:
The question that intrigues me is this:

CutieMouse said:
Do PYLs/pyls have a responsibility to be in the best possible health (or working towards it) as part of participating in the Lifestyle?
Click to expand...

I think that's something that has to be negotiated between individual partners. There are even those who prefer those who are overweight. Obviously if you are going to be participating in extreme kink, it is much less risky for you and your partner to be in good health.

HOWEVER
Ultimately? I don't think you have a responsibility to be in the best possibility to be in the best possible health as some sort of price of admission to the lifestyle. I DO think that we do have a responsibility to ourselves to improve our health. The increased safety is an added benefit, and an added incentive.
Click to expand...

I'd like to add something to that aspect. As I'm not overweighed nor have much experience with BDSM it's just musing.
I'd like to think that if anyone is in a committed relationship, maybe has family, they work towards being in better health generally. It's just a theory that does not seem to be working so very well, maybe because people like to ignore known risk factors/worries about getting old(er)/dying. I think I would like to be healthy and work towards being as healthy as I can be, because I don't want my partner to be either left alone when I die early or taking care of me after heart attack/stroke/whatever.
For me that's a major reason to do sports. I know my partner loves me the way I am, I like myself the way I am (mostly at least), and though I wouldn't mind toning up a bit, another and big reason is that I want to stay healthy as long as possible. And since it's too late to start sports and eating healthy once my health goes down, I do it now.
With the same logic I get quite upset when my partner does not take better care of himself. We are in our twenties, and students, and already he has lots and lots of stress, often self-made, often eats junk, doesn't do much sports. I get anxious that should we decide to spend life together he might die of a heart attack before he's sixty, leaving me much like my grandmas were left. And I really don't want this, I want to grow old with my partner.
 
Weighty issue? Light response?

I'm not so sure it's as controversial as it might be very personal in nature more than anything else.

I was very athletic in high school so much so that at 40-something I'm pre-occupied night and day about my weight. I have no functioning thyroids and am on thyroid replacement. My metabolism is off the scales from one day to the next...flucuates all the time. I could (and have) gone on a 1000 calorie diet and STILL gain weight. I've exercised, atkinized, weight-watchered, pritikined, cabbage souped myself to oblivion almost.

Every time I talk to my doctor, she says as long as I'm otherwise healthy, I shouldn't let it bother me, but I do. I keep trying, I keep exercising...and seem only to maintain my robustness.

So, personally, I think the "weight" issue is completely isolated from BDSM. Does it affect or change the way you participate? Sure! Especially with bondage.

But, I think it's a self-esteem issue more than anything.

sun

CutieMouse said:
... and possibly controversial subject.

I've spent some time receintly thinking about weight issues. As a society, Americans are growing increasingly larger. Some of that is due to lifestyle changes (more people work 40+ hours a week in front of a computer/free time spent... in front of a computer), and some of it due to things like bovine growth hormones in dairy products, vitamins, etc. Food portions increasing over the years hasn't helped any, either. The New England Journal of Medicine will publish two studies this week, which connect being even somewhat overweight, with increased health issues.

Because of my business dealings, I may be more sensitive to the size thing on a daily basis-

In 1950 the average woman wore a size 8 (a vintage size 8 is about a 24" waist, or a modern size 4-ish).

Today, the average woman is a size 14.


Now if roughly 60% of the American population is obese, then it seems logical that there are similar numbers of obese/overweight persons participating in BDSM-related activites. (My attendance at a Leatherfest weekend a few years ago, supports this admittedly loose theory.)

How does obesity impact kink? Do overweight PYLs/pyls have to work around risks of certain things, due to health issues, brought on by weight? Are there overweight people in the BDSM community (some might suggest more so than in the vanilla community) for any particular reason? How do weight issues affect esteem issues, and how does that impact BDSM dynamics? Are we non-judgemental enough that overweight people are more accepted in the Lifestyle, than in the rest of society? Do PYLs/pyls have a responsibility to be in the best possible health (or working towards it) as part of participating in the Lifestyle?

I'm not intending this as a bash on/make people feel bad about weight/size discussion, and hope (pray... trust), it won't become one. I honestly would like to discuss how issues such as weight, which can be annoying enough in everyday Life, cross over and impact kink-related activites, and how it's dealt with.
Click to expand...
 
CutieMouse said:
Do overweight PYLs/pyls have to work around risks of certain things, due to health issues, brought on by weight?
Click to expand...
I don't have any experience with this, but it seems obvious to me that the health issues would pervade all aspects of a person's life, including kink.

CutieMouse said:
Are there overweight people in the BDSM community (some might suggest more so than in the vanilla community) for any particular reason?
Click to expand...
From what I've seen, I'd say the proportion is about the same in the BDSM and non-BDSM communities.

CutieMouse said:
How do weight issues affect esteem issues, and how does that impact BDSM dynamics?
Click to expand...
I have no interest in a partner with low self esteem.

OTOH, I have no interest in an arrogant woman who spends time looking down her nose at other people. For this reason, many very attractive women have received a look from me, and nothing else.

I would also like to point out here that many women vastly under-estimate their own attractiveness, and that this can be quite self-defeating.

Take two women of nearly identical size and build. W1 dresses in clothing that fits and walks down the street with a self-confident demeanor. W2 attempts to hide her "flaws" by dressing in ill-fitting clothing and carries herself in a self-conscious way. The difference in attractiveness between these two women will be vast, and it will have nothing to do with weight.

CutieMouse said:
Are we non-judgemental enough that overweight people are more accepted in the Lifestyle, than in the rest of society?
Click to expand...
The percentage of judgmental people in the lifestyle is just as high as anywhere else.

CutieMouse said:
Do PYLs/pyls have a responsibility to be in the best possible health (or working towards it) as part of participating in the Lifestyle?
Click to expand...
What other people do is none of my business. I feel a responsibility to maintain my own personal health for broader issues than whatever I might be doing in the lifestyle at any point in time.

If a partner of mine ever stopped behaving responsibly with regard to her health, I would issue instructions regarding diet or exercise and expect them to be obeyed.
 
I am the small person in my triad. I'm currently looking and actively working on losing 35 more (already did the first half of that) pounds. Both my Master and chain sister are obese, but have just made it through the second week of diet and exercise (something they've both been w/o for around 10 years). This is both medically and self imposed by the two of them.

Impact on play - sometimes but there are variations for everything....

Impact on self esteem - yes... being that i'm the smaller of the two females - my Master's wife feels like she is no longer needed (although this has cleared up in the last 6 months a lot)....

Both are excited to be working out and if this is going to be a "i move in situation" it was one thing I said as a "this must be started" before I move in. Not because I don't find them to be attractive - I SO DO. But for health reasons and children reasons it needs to happen. I don't think it was a ridiculous point to assert on my part - i want to have them in my life as long as possible.

That being said - when i reach my goal weight... 165 i will still be a 12 and this is the low end of the weight range my doctor recommended. I'm just not a petite person.
 
Well... I guess at my weight suspension is out of the question. And I really don't think we should BOTH get on the massage table together. Other than that - my weight has very little to do with my kink - good or bad?
 
CutieMouse said:
Thank you for adding your thoughts Gracie. :rose: It must be really frustrating to have health complications, which contribute to a weight issue, which contribute to health complictions.

As I'm sure you know, there is a difference between being *healthy*, and being *skinny*- so no speed for you, young lady. ;)
Click to expand...

Which is why I haven't. Beyond that a person on speed is obnoxious and a bad parent. It's more important to me to be a good parent, than skinny.

JMohegan said:
Take two women of nearly identical size and build. W1 dresses in clothing that fits and walks down the street with a self-confident demeanor. W2 attempts to hide her "flaws" by dressing in ill-fitting clothing and carries herself in a self-conscious way. The difference in attractiveness between these two women will be vast, and it will have nothing to do with weight.
Click to expand...

I've noticed this myself. Most overweight people think that they are disguising their weight, when in fact they're making themselves look fat. Most people are shocked when I tell them my pants size, or my weight, cause I don't dress crappily.
 
graceanne said:
Which is why I haven't. Beyond that a person on speed is obnoxious and a bad parent. It's more important to me to be a good parent, than skinny.

From experience I know this is true and not a good route to take.
Click to expand...
 
littlegirlslut said:
From experience I know this is true and not a good route to take.
Click to expand...

Yeah, me too. My mother was a drug addict. Pot and forms of speed were her favorites. *shrugs* I'm not gonna screw up my kids life cause I'm fat.
 
graceanne said:
Yeah, me too. My mother was a drug addict. Pot and forms of speed were her favorites. *shrugs* I'm not gonna screw up my kids life cause I'm fat.
Click to expand...


I was lucky, he got clean and has become a great man. But it did have a big impact on my life.

*hugs*
Grace you sound like a great mother. Weight is such a hard thing to control even if there aren't other issues involved. You do a great job.
 
***
Anecdotal Statement Alert
***
As I've posted elsewhere, I'm a big guy. I have a fairly regular torso shape, and know how to dress to minimize it, but there's no getting around it: at 6 feet tall, and 323 pounds, I'm pretty seriously overweight. We can debate definitions, but really, according to the last BMI charts I read, I'd need to lose over 180 pounds to be in a target weight range (143, which IMO, would be near skeletal skinny on my frame).

The only things I can think of that affect me currently include somewhat reduced flexibility, and somewhat reduced breathing endurance. (I get winded quite easily, though I can and do push myself regularly past the point where I'm completely "blown up".)

As to perceptions, As others have said, I don't think kinksters in general are any more prejudiced against chubby folks than non-kinksters are.

Self-perceptions, however can be killer, and they don't just affect women. You're more likely to see me dead than see me outside my bathroom without at least a shirt on. I don't like the way I look, and I think that projects itself somewhat.

All that said, my next statement may seem somewhat hypocritical, but I believe we all have a responsibility to ourselves to keep our bodies healthy. And that's one of the things that bugs me about myself. I believe that, but I don't act on it, beyond lifting weights, which I mainly do to keep my upper body strength from being significantly too low for my body weight.
 
I don't see that as hypocritical at all. Recognizing something, and doing something, are two different things... one usually leads to the other, when the time is right.

(And I don't care how damned thin I get... you'll as likely see me dead, as in a bikini, after birthing 5 babies. *laughing*)
 
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CutieMouse said:
I don't see that as hypocritical at all. Recognizing something, and doing something, are two different things... one usually leads to the other, when the time is right. :)

(And I don't care how damned thin I get... you'll as likely see me dead, as in a bikini, after birthing 5 babies. *laughing*)
Click to expand...


Heck congrats on birthing 5 babies!!!
 
*laughing*

It isn't like I did it all at once or anything...
 
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graceanne said:
Most people are shocked when I tell them my pants size, or my weight, cause I don't dress crappily.
Click to expand...

Yep, same here. I'm also lucky in that, even though I'm definitely overweight (God knows how much because I refuse to climb on a set of scales), I have a very large frame (read: built like a man with big boobs). That large frame and my height--5'9"--help downplay my weight, although it's obvious to any casual observer that I'm not a little girl.

It's kind of funny that this subject came up because it's something that B. and I have been discussing recently. Both of us are overweight, and we're both sick of it. He called me Sunday, and we had a long talk about eating healthier and exercising together, even though we're not actually living in the same city at the moment. (He's from my hometown; I'm about two hours away at school.) At my smallest, I was probably somewhere in the 175-pound range, which is actually considered slightly overweight for a woman of my height. I'd love to weigh that now! Still, I've pretty much been struggling my whole life to lose weight, be it 10 pounds or 100 pounds. B. thinks that if I'm held accountable to someone other than myself that I'll be more likely to stick with my diet and exercise plan. I hope he is right. I've made it three days, and I'm already about to go insane. Depo-Provera helped my weight shoot up and makes it almost impossible to get off. I am also not blessed with patience.

Wench, like you, I'm hypoglycemic. I think that, too, has contributed to my weight gain. Having to eat every two hours to keep from going into hypoglycemic shock will do that to you, unfortunately. It's one reason that restricted calorie diets are so hard for me. I'll do well on them for a little while, but then I'll get all weak and dizzy after I've used up my calories for the day. Another unfortunate thing is that the diet that is supposed to keep your blood sugar somewhat level doesn't help with weight loss (not for me, anyway).
 
For anyone who is interested - the weight watchers points system really, really worked for me.
 
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