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Recidiva

Recidiva

Harastal
Joined
Sep 3, 2005
Posts
89,726
How many people here have a religious background or rejected one?

I'm under the impression that many sadomasochistic people that don't adopt a healthy reflective sex life will use religion as the next best thing.

Indulging it in an ecstatic or mythic way rather than personalizing the impulse.

I am not anti-religion, but there is always a sect of any religion that is going to find the most violent or bloody image and use it as their calling card.

I never understood how in the Bible, there are to be no graven images, except the most well known symbol of Christianity is Christ bleeding on his cross.
 
Recidiva said:
How many people here have a religious background or rejected one?

I'm under the impression that many sadomasochistic people that don't adopt a healthy reflective sex life will use religion as the next best thing.

Indulging it in an ecstatic or mythic way rather than personalizing the impulse.

I am not anti-religion, but there is always a sect of any religion that is going to find the most violent or bloody image and use it as their calling card.

I never understood how in the Bible, there are to be no graven images, except the most well known symbol of Christianity is Christ bleeding on his cross.
Click to expand...
You picked a good day for this discussion. :) Before i post do you know what that image symbolizes?
 
Kajira Callista said:
You picked a good day for this discussion. :) Before i post do you know what that image symbolizes?
Click to expand...

Many things to many people.

To me the most astounding part of Jesus were the words of forgiveness and love spoken while alive.

So my symbol for him is the lamb, not the slaughtered one.
 
Have you ever seen the statue of St. Theresa being pierced by the angel's spear-- based on her diary account, which described the ecstasy, as the spear was plunging into her?

The SM impulses surely manifest in art, and in spectators enjoyment of grisly depictions.
 
Recidiva said:
Many things to many people.

To me the most astounding part of Jesus were the words of forgiveness and love spoken while alive.

So my symbol for him is the lamb, not the slaughtered one.
Click to expand...

Hmmm, not sure myself whether that is how it stikes me. For me, the image on the cross is very symbolic of the love and forgivenss capable and given despite personal outcomes in the here and now.

Catalina :rose:
 
Recidiva said:
Many things to many people.

To me the most astounding part of Jesus were the words of forgiveness and love spoken while alive.

So my symbol for him is the lamb, not the slaughtered one.
Click to expand...
He was slaughtered.. but he did not die.

This might help explain my view:


We believe in one God, the Father, the Almighty, maker of heaven and earth of all that is seen and unseen.
We believe in one Lord, Jesus Christ, the only Son of God, eternally begotten of the Father, God from God, Light from Light, true God from true God, begotten, not made, one in Being with the Father.
Through Him all things were made. For US MEN and for our salvation He came down from heaven; by the power of the Holy Spirit He was born of the Virgin Mary, and became man.
FOR OUR SAKE He was crucified under Pontius Pilate; He suffered died, and was buried.
On the third day He rose in fulfillment of the Scriptures; He ascended into heaven and is seated at the right hand of the Father.
He will come again in glory to judge the living and the dead, AND HIS KINGDOM WILL HAVE NO END.
We believe in the Holy Spirit, the Lord, the giver of life, who proceeds from the Father and the Son.
With the Father and the Son He is worshiped and glorified. He has spoken through the Prophets.
We believe in one holy catholic and apostolic Church. We acknowledge one baptism for the forgiveness of sins.
We look for the resurrection of the dead, and the life of the world to come.





lol church on a porn board...how fun :)
 
Pure said:
Have you ever seen the statue of St. Theresa being pierced by the angel's spear-- based on her diary account, which described the ecstasy, as the spear was plunging into her?

The SM impulses surely manifest in art, and in spectators enjoyment of grisly depictions.
Click to expand...

Yes, I think it's just funneled this way when it can't be acted on. It's transformed into something devout.
 
catalina_francisco said:
Hmmm, not sure myself whether that is how it stikes me. For me, the image on the cross is very symbolic of the love and forgivenss capable and given despite personal outcomes in the here and now.

Catalina :rose:
Click to expand...

A bloody guy on a cross induces love and forgiveness?

I've always seen this used as guilt. "Christ died on the cross for your sins"
 
Kajira Callista said:
He was slaughtered.. but he did not die.
Click to expand...

Then why not have the symbol of Him be something less gruesome?

My point is not what people think of it, which is of course personal.

My point is that by choosing as a symbol of religion, martyrdom, pain and sacrifice, that's a movement. Like Alice's Restaurant.
 
Recidiva said:
Then why not have the symbol of Him be something less gruesome?

My point is not what people think of it, which is of course personal.

My point is that by choosing as a symbol of religion, martyrdom, pain and sacrifice, that's a movement. Like Alice's Restaurant.
Click to expand...
For me...that symbol reminds me of how much he loved us....that he would suffer this way to give us something better. It is not gruesome in my eyes, it is beautiful.
 
Kajira Callista said:
For me...that symbol reminds me of how much he loved us....that he would suffer this way to give us something better. It is not gruesome in my eyes, it is beautiful.
Click to expand...

I'd have been perfectly happy had he been able to skip town.
 
Recidiva said:
I'd have been perfectly happy had he been able to skip town.
Click to expand...
he didn't even try though. according to my religion he knew what was going to happen and even though he felt forsaken by God he accepted it. If he skipped town there would be no heaven.
 
Kajira Callista said:
he didn't even try though. according to my religion he knew what was going to happen and even though he felt forsaken by God he accepted it. If he skipped town there would be no heaven.
Click to expand...

I don't know anything about that. The Kingdom of Heaven is something he spoke of while alive and kicking, nothing about there being no heaven without him. He was a humble gentleman.
 
Recidiva said:
I don't know anything about that. The Kingdom of Heaven is something he spoke of while alive and kicking, nothing about there being no heaven without him. He was a humble gentleman.
Click to expand...
The gates to heaven were opened by him.
 
Kajira Callista said:
The gates to heaven were opened by him.
Click to expand...

Okay, these are your beliefs, and I respect them. They're not in his words when he was alive. They're in the thoughts about him after he died.

Lao Tzu also wrote amazing stuff. He left a manuscript and skipped town.

Still good stuff.

The words of Christ to my money are some of the wisest ever written. His crucifiction is a brutal, horrific footnote.

Glorifying it, to me, glorifies destruction rather than creation.
 
Recidiva said:
Okay, these are your beliefs, and I respect them. They're not in his words when he was alive. They're in the thoughts about him after he died.

Lao Tzu also wrote amazing stuff. He left a manuscript and skipped town.

Still good stuff.

The words of Christ to my money are some of the wisest ever written. His crucifiction is a brutal, horrific footnote.

Glorifying it, to me, glorifies destruction rather than creation.
Click to expand...
I'm not glorifying destruction...i am glorifying the man who allowed this to happen to himself for me. :)

I gotta go make easter bread now.
Grandma is gonna teach the kids about the symbolism behind the making of it.
 
Kajira Callista said:
I'm not glorifying destruction...i am glorifying the man who allowed this to happen to himself for me. :)

I gotta go make easter bread now.
Grandma is gonna teach the kids about the symbolism behind the making of it.
Click to expand...

Happy Easter :)
 
Kajira Callista said:
For me...that symbol reminds me of how much he loved us....that he would suffer this way to give us something better. It is not gruesome in my eyes, it is beautiful.
Click to expand...

Well said. I don't look at it and feel guilty I look at it and feel loved. He loved me (and everyone else) so much that he was tortured so that we could be forgiven. It's just awesome and amazing, that he'd love us that much.

Recidiva said:
I'd have been perfectly happy had he been able to skip town.
Click to expand...

I sure wouldn't have blamed him, but if he'd skipped town we'd still be stuck doing the animal sacrifices and all the other things that the Jews were having to do to atone for sins at the time. As KC said, he opened the gates of heaven so that all you have to do to get in is accept that he died so that you could be saved.
 
graceanne said:
Well said. I don't look at it and feel guilty I look at it and feel loved. He loved me (and everyone else) so much that he was tortured so that we could be forgiven. It's just awesome and amazing, that he'd love us that much.

I sure wouldn't have blamed him, but if he'd skipped town we'd still be stuck doing the animal sacrifices and all the other things that the Jews were having to do to atone for sins at the time. As KC said, he opened the gates of heaven so that all you have to do to get in is accept that he died so that you could be saved.
Click to expand...

But I don't accept that he died so I could be saved. I read his words and that's the best part.

The rest to me is tragic and horrible.

This is a question of faith and attitude. I share the belief in the words, but not the symbols of sacrifice and martyrdom.

I think the sacrifice and martyrdom is a way for many people to experience their more masochistic sides and give it a wealth of personal meaning. Not one I am disagreeing with that it should exist, but pointing out that resonating with that image will often mean more to a person as a sexual entity as well as religious.
 
Then he took the cup, gave thanks and offered it to them, saying, "Drink from it, all of you. This is my blood of the covenant, which is poured out for many for the forgiveness of sins. Matthew 26: 27-28 (italics mine)
 
graceanne said:
Then he took the cup, gave thanks and offered it to them, saying, "Drink from it, all of you. This is my blood of the covenant, which is poured out for many for the forgiveness of sins. Matthew 26: 27-28 (italics mine)
Click to expand...
:heart: :rose:
 
Recidiva said:
A bloody guy on a cross induces love and forgiveness?

I've always seen this used as guilt. "Christ died on the cross for your sins"
Click to expand...

Umm, symbolise and induce are not the same words or meaning. :catroar:

Catalina :rose:
 
catalina_francisco said:
Umm, symbolise and induce are not the same words or meaning. :catroar:

Catalina :rose:
Click to expand...

I'm agreeing with you that the symbolism is there. What I'm not getting is any input on the crossover from a religious attitude to a sexual one :)
 
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