the marks of a slave

eastern sun said:

I think I like what happens when some details are missing and you're left to fill it in with your own experience and imagination. But always, itw, always feel free to ask if you're curious.

I think I'm also hoping you'll be curious.

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Ha, rest assured I'm fulfilling all of your hopes and dreams. Ok, just one hope.

I'm just curious where you and your husband are at right now. It seems like there was this realization that you two were friends who fuck and partners without the ooey gooey love (I'm summarizing that badly) but now it sounds like things are shifting again in some way?

intothewoods said:

Ha, rest assured I'm fulfilling all of your hopes and dreams. Ok, just one hope.

I'm just curious where you and your husband are at right now. It seems like there was this realization that you two were friends who fuck and partners without the ooey gooey love (I'm summarizing that badly) but now it sounds like things are shifting again in some way?

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Not a bad summary at all.

You're right, things are shifting again.

Our kids are getting older, and need/want less attention (of that omnipresent early childhood mothering kind). I have been completely dependent financially - bringing in very little income and no benefits - and in this current economic climate, with two kids nearing college age, we have grown concerned about our long range financial situation.

He wants me to bring in money and contribute, most specifically, towards my own "retirement." And I need to make a psychological shift in my role as "mother."

The consequence - I have been working outside the home. With a vengeance.

I'm a good worker, prone to throwing myself into whatever I do. So, he's had to pick up a lot of household responsibilities in the last year. His relationship to the kids has grown much closer as I have pulled away. He is much more involved in their day-to-day struggles and successes, late night homework projects, and social worries, meaning they are now both relying on him and fighting his authority in a whole new way.

And - since we always worked together, when I worked before - my accomplishments outside the home this year have sparked his own sleeping interests in the kind of work we used to do.

So, where has that left us?

After a period of being focussed outside our relationship, I am returning to him with a greater sense of comfort in "my position in the world." And, as he grows closer with his now older kids, my authority within the family structure is significantly changing. He is expressing his clear expectation that I will continue to cook, clean and uphold my household responsibilities while I am working - or pay for someone else to do it. He does not intend to carry that weight.

And he is asserting his sexual authority in the relationship much more aggressively, which I always love.

When I don't piss him off by being overly preoccupied with work, he is really enjoying my company because I bring more to the table. I am more involved in local politics and community developments. And as we search for ways to work with each other again, we are falling back into patterns that governed our relationship in its very beginning (which is, of course, when we felt the most "romantic love" for each other.)

We seem to like each other more the more distance we get. Funny, hunh?

Over the years, the M/s dynamics between us have ranged widely from very harsh to uber-erotic to "on the shelf" to switching roles entirely. (Though the times we've switched roles have always reinforced the reasons why we do things the way we do, because we just aren't that happy the other way around.)

Though I know I will be lonely without the kids in the house, sometimes I can't wait for them to leave, so we can throw ourselves into each other again.

eastern sun said:

Though I know I will be lonely without the kids in the house, sometimes I can't wait for them to leave, so we can throw ourselves into each other again.

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Oh boy, how this resonates with us! They're my kids from a previous marriage, and the interface between them and Himself has always been somewhat difficult. I love them dearly, but I'm definitely beginning to anticipate the flight from the nest. I have to say, though, that while I do anticipate more "us" time, I'm also eager to watch my kids transition into independent adults. Kind of the proof of the pudding, I guess.

And my daughter already knows that her room is destined to be my sewing room.

I'm really thrilled for you -- it sounds like you're both in a great spot.

Do you think agreeing to let go of a certain definition of love helped free you both to enjoy each other a bit more?

intothewoods said:

I'm really thrilled for you -- it sounds like you're both in a great spot.

Do you think agreeing to let go of a certain definition of love helped free you both to enjoy each other a bit more?

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He doesn't think he's in such a great spot. He feels trapped, and thinks I have way too much freedom.

It's true, though. Letting go of a certain expectation of what "love" looks like has allowed us to enjoy each other a lot more.

eastern sun said:

He wants me to bring in money and contribute, most specifically, towards my own "retirement."

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eastern sun said:

He doesn't think he's in such a great spot. He feels trapped, and thinks I have way too much freedom.

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You can have anything you want. You just can't have everything you want.

Keroin said:

You can have anything you want. You just can't have everything you want.

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It's true. He had very mixed feelings when I was offered a full-time job with benefits.

Be careful what you ask for.

(Fortunately, we have time to discover whether or not his perfect world exists before I have to officially take this job offer. My thinking . . . it doesn't, so I'm acting as if I'm taking the job to make sure it stays on the table.

But you never know . . . right? I couldn't have told you I'd be living the life I'm living today 10 years ago.)

The truth is, everyone is going to hurt you. You just got to find the ones worth suffering for.

― Bob Marley

He thinks I am misrepresenting my work this last year, by claiming it was in his service. If it was in his service, it would have made him happy.

Which led to a heated exchange between us about the goal of serving a master. In his view, the goal is to make him happy. And if my actions don't make him happy, then they aren't for him.

They're for me, with a pretense of being for him.

I cried out in my offended defense that the goal was never to make him happy! It was to do what he asked of me.

(Can you see where this is going?)

He reacted by taking things into his own hands, and getting what he wanted from me, which allowed both of us to wake up this morning much, much happier.

I readily acknowledge that it is possible to serve someone with such a bad attitude that it is not really service at all. But I also believe that if he relies on me for his own happiness, I will fail him repeatedly, and he will be unhappy.

However, when we are both firmly in ourselves, acting on both our own behalf and on behalf of the other, we are happy together. That is where our real happiness comes from.

(And, I do need to check my attitude. On a daily basis. . . . We're thinking peri-menopause is making me act like a rebellious teenager. Could that be true?)

I've learned something in the last few days. . .

Jealousy is predicated on the perception that someone else is having more fun than you are.

Therefore, those burning flames can be eased, if you a. focus on your own pleasure (i.e. increase your own fun) or b. look closely to see whether it's really true that the others are having fun.

If they're not really having fun, it changes immediately and you even feel some compassion for their unhappiness.

And if you start having fun, you just don't mind as much what they do.

eastern sun said:

I've learned something in the last few days. . .

Jealousy is predicated on the perception that someone else is having more fun than you are.

Therefore, those burning flames can be eased, if you a. focus on your own pleasure (i.e. increase your own fun) or b. look closely to see whether it's really true that the others are having fun.

If they're not really having fun, it changes immediately and you even feel some compassion for their unhappiness.

And if you start having fun, you just don't mind as much what they do.

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This is beautifully put and something, I've been thinking about often and found to be true for myself.

Actually, I'm going to quote this in the Hidden Gems thread.

eastern sun said:

I've learned something in the last few days. . .

Jealousy is predicated on the perception that someone else is having more fun than you are.

Therefore, those burning flames can be eased, if you a. focus on your own pleasure (i.e. increase your own fun) or b. look closely to see whether it's really true that the others are having fun.

If they're not really having fun, it changes immediately and you even feel some compassion for their unhappiness.

And if you start having fun, you just don't mind as much what they do.

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I've often relied on this to unfreak out people who are not that into the threeway that their partner is desperate for.

"How can I watch him/her yadda yadda"

"What if a fourth person is so hard at work on you you have something else to think about while you watch?"

Stories have a way of changing at that moment. Lights go on. People just worry about being left out.

Jealousy

I don't post often on Lit, but I wanted to express my gratitude at the opportunity to read these beautiful thoughts. I feel too many simple joys are overlooked by far too many. It's nice to see the little perks in life cherished.

I'm new, young, and naive. I've only just dabbed a toe into the world of bdsm. I have a wonderful Dom currently, but we are battling the intricacies of a long distance relationship and all that, that entails. However, I do find a few gem moments that give me pause, thinking about how I've submitted so much to him. They frighten me, they arouse me, and they intoxicate me. I would be the first to admit that I'm addicted to what he does to me. From the delicious way he presses against my mental boundaries, to the way he'll call me 'sweetheart', instead of 'whore' or 'slut'. Although, those have their distinct appeal, don't get me wrong.

One of my most submissive moments occurred last night, in fact. I'm not sure he even noticed it, but it affected me greatly. We were having a heated discussion, if not an argument, about my feelings for him. How far I could let myself fall for him without the inevitable crash at the bottom of the metaphorical well, especially considering he is a supporter of open relationships and I am not. The outcome or content of this is not important, however reading the thoughts on jealousy that have been discussed has widened my view greatly. Anyways. What struck me down to my core, both physically and mentally, was mid way through an explanation of his, he paused for a fraction of a moment. I interrupted, desperate to have my say, and he firmly stated, "Hush, whore" as if it were the most natural and expected thing to do. My eyes widened and I stopped immediately. I was his whore, and I would hush, if he desired it.

I came to the realization that no matter where I am, be it at the grocery store speculating about what produce to buy with him on the phone, to on my bed frustrated at his inability to accept my views, I am his whore. And I want to be his whore. It's actually quite frightening, and I'm not at all sure I'm comfortable with how he makes me feel. But, as he tells me rather often, leaps of faith are essential to life.

Phew, that was rather long, wasn't it? In my defense, I wanted to say much more. It's comforting to be able to share these things.

What are his leaps of faith as pertains to you?

I get that not all relationships are symmetrical. Mine's not.

But I've pretty much proven that, while my partner will put up with my irrational and inexplicable wants, so will I put up with theirs. More than I ever knew possible.

We're all stronger people for it, but I would not be able to do this if I didn't know the intent and energy also goes in my favor.

Trust

I'm not sure about the symmetry of our relationship, as you put it. I haven't weighed it out, or measured it, although it's been tempting to torture myself that way. When I say I am falling for him, physically, mentally, or whatever else you please, it's with the understanding that he cares for me as well. In ways that I might, and often do, have trouble comprehending. As a submissive, I find it baffling that he can find satisfaction in being dominant, but I adore the fact that he does, nonetheless.

His leaps of faith are a matter of emotional trust. He gives, and I give, and it's a seesawing pattern of a normal relationship in a rather kinky world. I have my own issues with that, and accepting his gifts, and offering my own is difficult for me. Not for any good, solid reason. I just find it hard to place trust.

Hence the leaps of faith.
Nothing irrational or dangerous, I promise. n.n

But I like how you worded that, if you don't mind me saying. I never thought of relationships as being 'symmetrical', or not. I like that.

Stella_Omega said:

E.S. is describing envy, which is wanting what others have got. Money, happiness, whatever.

Jealousy is the conviction that you and you alone have the right to another person's body, mind, destiny.

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I see how you could interpret my words this way, but I meant to say something different.

The envy that I felt was directed toward the woman who was the object of my husband's attention, whereas the burning flames of jealousy are always directed at him.

And it is that jealousy that I was referring to.

I see envy as wanting the same things as another, without taking away from that person. Wanting something similar, not the exact same whatever-thing. "I'd love to be that wealthy; I wish I had a body like that; his house is so cool, I'd love to find his architect." Envy isn't subtractive, IMO.

Jealousy, though, is wanting to take away what someone has, to have for themselves.

I've been envious before, a few times here and there. I'd never been jealous before quite recently, and it was very much a matter of wanting something someone else was receiving that I was being deprived of. It hurt like hell because, by all of the usual standards/comparisons it was something that rightfully belonged to me--my Master's time and attention, and my position as his slave. The fact that it had been taken away (and partly by my own mistakes, but not entirely) hurt me deeply and made me a kind of crazy that I've never, ever had to deal with before. My reactions freaked me almost as much as the jealousy itself.

I'm working hard on fixing my part of what got broken. Mending the trust, while other things are still going on, is horribly difficult but I'm trying. I need to believe that he is, too, but sometimes it's not easy. That's another struggle for me, I guess. I wish our relationship could just go back to normal, without all of the extraneous crap.

I guess this has left me with a marked slave heart. It won't ever be the same as it once was, but I'm hoping that, with time, it will get better.

Netzach said:

People just worry about being left out.

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Yeah, those are my sentiments exactly.

SexKitten909 said:

I'm not sure about the symmetry of our relationship, as you put it. I haven't weighed it out, or measured it, although it's been tempting to torture myself that way. When I say I am falling for him, physically, mentally, or whatever else you please, it's with the understanding that he cares for me as well. In ways that I might, and often do, have trouble comprehending. As a submissive, I find it baffling that he can find satisfaction in being dominant, but I adore the fact that he does, nonetheless.

His leaps of faith are a matter of emotional trust. He gives, and I give, and it's a seesawing pattern of a normal relationship in a rather kinky world. I have my own issues with that, and accepting his gifts, and offering my own is difficult for me. Not for any good, solid reason. I just find it hard to place trust.

Hence the leaps of faith.
Nothing irrational or dangerous, I promise. n.n

But I like how you worded that, if you don't mind me saying. I never thought of relationships as being 'symmetrical', or not. I like that.

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Have you met him yet?

desertslave said:

I see envy as wanting the same things as another, without taking away from that person. Wanting something similar, not the exact same whatever-thing. "I'd love to be that wealthy; I wish I had a body like that; his house is so cool, I'd love to find his architect." Envy isn't subtractive, IMO.

Jealousy, though, is wanting to take away what someone has, to have for themselves.

I've been envious before, a few times here and there. I'd never been jealous before quite recently, and it was very much a matter of wanting something someone else was receiving that I was being deprived of. It hurt like hell because, by all of the usual standards/comparisons it was something that rightfully belonged to me--my Master's time and attention, and my position as his slave. The fact that it had been taken away (and partly by my own mistakes, but not entirely) hurt me deeply and made me a kind of crazy that I've never, ever had to deal with before. My reactions freaked me almost as much as the jealousy itself.

I'm working hard on fixing my part of what got broken. Mending the trust, while other things are still going on, is horribly difficult but I'm trying. I need to believe that he is, too, but sometimes it's not easy. That's another struggle for me, I guess. I wish our relationship could just go back to normal, without all of the extraneous crap.

I guess this has left me with a marked slave heart. It won't ever be the same as it once was, but I'm hoping that, with time, it will get better.

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Well . . . I've been that kind of crazy. It made us both miserable without really changing the behavior that triggers it.

In fact, I would suggest - in my own relationship - that taking on the role of "slave" has gone a long way towards making me more comfortable in my jealousy, because it's woven into the fabric of this asymmetrical relationship. As "wife," I held very different expectations.

However, harking back to Netzach's post, it is also true that there are aspects of this relationship that he would view as asymmetrical, using different yardsticks to measure it with. He sees himself, for instance, as the holder of much more responsibility for our financial and material well-being, with all the headaches that entails.

The M/s dynamics imply a certain kind of imbalance that is able to remain stable only because the agreement to be so is formally established.

eastern sun said:

The truth is, everyone is going to hurt you. You just got to find the ones worth suffering for.

― Bob Marley

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I absolutely love this and wasn't aware of it. Thanks for posting it.

eastern sun said:

Have you met him yet?

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Nope. But it's being planned.

eastern sun said:

The M/s dynamics imply a certain kind of imbalance that is able to remain stable only because the agreement to be so is formally established.

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And the irony is that the agreement to embrace and fully experience that imbalance is, somehow, making us more balanced.

Not by changing our behavior, but by changing our reactions to our behavior.

eastern sun said:

eastern sun said:

The M/s dynamics imply a certain kind of imbalance that is able to remain stable only because the agreement to be so is formally established.

Click to expand...

And the irony is that the agreement to embrace and fully experience that imbalance is, somehow, making us more balanced.

Not by changing our behavior, but by changing our reactions to our behavior.

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True.
I experienced that at the beginning, when we admitted to ourselves and accepted the "unbalance" as the "new balance": I stopped resenting many things and I became overall happier, and the same was for him.

But now that the unbalanced "new balance" too has been thrown out of sync by elements we have no control over, I'm resenting the unbalance all over again. With a vengeance. And is cutting deeply inside my soul and my love for Hubby.

We need to find a new "new balance". But it is subordinate to him finding first his own balance.

So in the meantime I keep up the facade, I polish my acting skills, and try to keep alive both my soul and my love for Hubby.

rida said:

But now that the unbalanced "new balance" too has been thrown out of sync by elements we have no control over, I'm resenting the unbalance all over again. With a vengeance. And is cutting deeply inside my soul and my love for Hubby.

We need to find a new "new balance". But it is subordinate to him finding first his own balance.

So in the meantime I keep up the facade, I polish my acting skills, and try to keep alive both my soul and my love for Hubby.

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I understand how this can happen. I wish I knew an easy answer, but I don't.

It takes two to tango. And it's awfully hard to keep up the facade for months at a time without looking elsewhere for the dance connection you crave.