Just why?

BotanyBoy said:

Taxes I don't have to pay....it's voluntary.

Except for the creation of the internet which was a defense thing and back to theft.



Voluntary taxation (like for roads) isn't theft, because it's voluntary.

I don't have to give California a few grand every year for that little sticker on my plates......I know Texas DOT doesn't come blow your doors off and fuck you up for not giving them their hundo or whatever they charge now-a-days.

Involuntary taxation by force, like with your income or Obamacare.... is theft.



Name a corporation that owns any slaves.

I'm sure the popo's would love to hear about it because super fuckin' illegal.



Why? Is he trying to control the internet and tax everyone for it?

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No but one of the corporations he'll work for with a huuuuge salary in a couple years will do it for him. Verizon probably.

BotanyBoy said:

Voluntary taxation (like for roads) isn't theft, because it's voluntary.

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You're going to have to get out that dictionary again, and tell me how anyone volunteers to pay taxes, in this country. Most of those come out of their wages, before the check gets cut. "I volunteer for you to cut my paycheck, and while you're at it, could you tell the IRS to just send me my return this year? I can't afford H&R block."

The lottery. That would be an example of voluntary taxes. Show me how only voluntary taxes go into roads, and satellites.

I don't have to give California a few grand every year for that little sticker on my plates. I know Texas DOT doesn't come blow your doors off and fuck you up for not giving them their hundo or whatever they charge now-a-days.

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Texas doesn't know where I park. I don't even have a sticker on my license plate, but I'm an anarchist. I chose not to pay taxes, but the State sure would like to take them if they could. So, you just opt out, tell your employer not to file that form with the IRS, then?

Name a corporation that owns any slaves.

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Here comes captain semantic again. They down't Own them, they rent them. By the hour, and virtually every major company does to some degree. Interns. There's an example, Internship is basically untrained experience, and any Major corporation demands Experience (From unpaid internship) to hire them. Also, the White House, House, and Senate does it.

Veroe said:

A well regulated Capitalist system. I'm not talking regulations for the sake of regulations either. I'm saying the government doing its god-damned duty to the people .

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What do you think it's duty is?

Veroe said:

The problem with that is the corporations have our politicians in their pockets, so the government won't do its duty to in its balancing act because they're paid not to anymore.

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That much we agree on.

What balancing act? You mean economic oppression??

Veroe said:

So with that cat asleep the mice get to maximize their profits to millions and millions of dollars and everyone else gets fucked.

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What's wrong with maximizing profits?

Who's getting fucked and how??

Veroe said:

No but one of the corporations he'll work for with a huuuuge salary in a couple years will do it for him. Verizon probably.

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They can't....not unless the government helps them by fucking everyone else, in the name of "fairness" no doubt.

BotanyBoy said:

Who's getting fucked and how?

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Everyone else, and by taxes.

psiberzerker said:

Everyone else, and by taxes.

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How does a private company maximizing profits fuck everyone else with taxes?

Last I checked there isn't a single private company or corporation out there with the authority to tax anyone.

BotanyBoy said:

How does a private company maximizing profits fuck everyone else with taxes?

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By paying lawmaker to set up tax breaks, fix the minum wage for almost a decade, and volunteering their workers to pay into it out of their checks. I believe the politically correct term is "Human Resources."

psiberzerker said:

By paying lawmaker to set up tax breaks, fix the minum wage for almost a decade, and volunteering their workers to pay into it out of their checks. I believe the politically correct term is "Human Resources."

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None of those things are taxing everyone else.

Not oppressing the successful =/= fucking everyone else.

BotanyBoy said:

What do you think it's duty is?

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Making certain the public good is also served as well as ensuring the economy's health remains viable and growing.

That much we agree on.

What balancing act? You mean economic oppression??

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You'll probably think its economic oppression.

Basically corporations should make as much profit as they can for their own individual health and growth. The government should regulate towards the health and growth of the economy as a whole and the prosperity of the citizenry. That means regulations saying no most cheaply dumping pollutants into rivers that citizens like to use to swim in or fish in or even get their drinking water from. So in that instance the corporation is barred from maximizing profits by having to spend more money filtering out the pollutants from their wastes then tough they have to pay more and minimize their profits a little bit-just a reasonable amount I'd say-for the public good.

What's wrong with maximizing profits?

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Nothing's wrong with it, but maximizing profits without the countervailing pressure of maintaining the public good and the good for the economy as a whole is wrong.

Who's getting fucked and how??

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The consumers: just ask the Well-fargo customers that had Wells Fargo open multiple accounts in their name without their knowledge and charge them for it.
The workers: they don't want to pay a livable wage.
The public: They'd rather stash their profits in tax havens like Ireland rather than pay those taxes so the government can have the money to build and repair roads and bridges for example. They'd rather buy back their stock to artificially inflate the stock price than invest and expand their workforce or give raises to their workers.

You're right capitalism is about individual liberty, but unbridled capitalism is not inherently good. It needs checks and balances in order to be equitable to all. Regulating those checks and balances should be the role of the government. So I'm very pro-regulation to a point. But also I recognize there's a danger of over regulation hindering the health and growth of an industry.

At least that's my own thoughts on the subject.

Veroe said:

Making certain the public good is also served as well as ensuring the economy's health remains viable and growing.

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That's nice, but you do realize that is NOT what the US governments job is right?

Veroe said:

The government should regulate towards the health and growth of the economy as a whole and the prosperity of the citizenry. That means regulations saying no most cheaply dumping pollutants into rivers that citizens like to use to swim in or fish in or even get their drinking water from. So in that instance the corporation is barred from maximizing profits by having to spend more money filtering out the pollutants from their wastes then tough they have to pay more and minimize their profits a little bit-just a reasonable amount I'd say-for the public good.

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You don't have to fuck with the economy very much to protect peoples rights.

That is one legit example and one that most liberals as far as I have ever heard or read totally support those kinds of economic oppressions.

Can't be a hitman because murder is illegal. Valid....liberalism =/= anarchy.

Etc.

The beef is usually NOT about that though.

The train usually goes off the rails at wealth re-distribution, because "it's not fair" AND "It's too big to fail!" both are total fucking bullshit. Limited, or insanely priced either directly or through arbitrary bullshit "regulations", licensing to go into business....

THAT kinda shit is just evil.

Veroe said:

Nothing's wrong with it, but maximizing profits without the countervailing pressure of maintaining the public good and the good for the economy as a whole is wrong.

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Those are minimal though and most people, none of any real importance brings up getting rid of those.

The problem is when haters look at the guy in the 800,000 dollar car and go "That's not FAIR!.....I only make 12 bucks an hour, I work hard and I deserve a Lambo too!!!" so they go vote for a pol promising to send his goons out to take more from that evil 1%!!! to pay for this persons life choices that resulted in a 12/hr lifestyle.

Un-American as fuck.....that shit shouldn't even be an option in this country.

Veroe said:

The consumers: just ask the Well-fargo customers that had Wells Fargo open multiple accounts in their name without their knowledge and charge them for it.

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I am a WellsFucker victim...and I told them to eat their fees and I went to a different bank along with many others and they failed.

The only reason they are still around is because the government bailed them out.....what...tha....fuck.

Their poor business practices should have DESTROYED them.

Veroe said:

The workers: they don't want to pay a livable wage.

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They don't want to pay a luxury wage, and some do because they are worth it.

Veroe said:

The public: They'd rather stash their profits in tax havens like Ireland rather than pay those taxes so the government can have the money to build and repair roads and bridges for example.

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Well maybe if we taxed fairly and actually did some of that stuff with it instead of fucking it off and endlessly going back for more, they wouldn't need nor be so pressured to get it the fuck out of the country in order to hide it.

Veroe said:

They'd rather buy back their stock to artificially inflate the stock price than invest and expand their workforce or give raises to their workers.

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So?

If the workers are fine with what they're getting why not make more on the side just for moving money around?

Shit I wish I was big enough to get on that game

Veroe said:

You're right capitalism is about individual liberty, but unbridled capitalism is not inherently good. It needs checks and balances in order to be equitable to all. Regulating those checks and balances should be the role of the government. So I'm very pro-regulation to a point. But also I recognize there's a danger of over regulation hindering the health and growth of an industry.

At least that's my own thoughts on the subject.

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It's not inherently evil either....it's up to the individuals involved in the exchange.

Equitable to all?

What do you mean by that?

BotanyBoy, two questions:
Do you think a single person should be able to own every single square centimetre of the Earth if they can afford it?
And do you think it would be ok for people to be paid so little that they aren't even able to purchase absolute basics like food and toothpaste?

Blue said:

BotanyBoy, two questions:
Do you think a single person should be able to own every single square centimetre of the Earth if they can afford it?
And do you think it would be ok for people to be paid so little that they aren't even able to purchase absolute basics like food and toothpaste?

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No and as long as it's voluntary yes.

Why?

nowisthetime said:

Why does the right love the idealism of "America", but hate their fellow Americans, fellow human beings?

On the GB, I came across this reprehensible quote from a fellow Litser, who is of the "right" persuasion:


"Every march is just domestic Terror , womens,gun hating kids, mexicans against America, Teachers that don't teach but want a pay raise......all domestic terror!"


It's as if any time folks wish to stand up for their civil rights, the right sneers their noses. It's as if they don't WANT people to have a voice, except for their type (rightists), of course, when they want to trample on others' rights.

Could you imagine the atrocities that would still continue had human beings not stood up for their rights?

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I would quote Vaclav Havel at this person. He was speaking about the rulers of Czechoslovakia under their Soviet masters.

They cannot tell the difference between dissent and naked terrorism.

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From my point of view the difference between the people ruling the Soviet Union and that part of the political spectrum characterized as 'Right'* is only aesthetic, like the difference between a water moccasin and a copperhead.

*Why do we still use the boarding requirements of horses to order our politics?

BotanyBoy said:

So they grow up thinking Capitalism is evil, Liberty is the problem and we should be attempting to be as much like Europe as possible because they are just so cool!!

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How is that different from thinking capitalism is good (It's an economic system, not an ethical system) Government is the problem (like capitalism it's a tool and has no ethical qualities) and Europe is a socialist hellhole.

None of these beliefs, in your post or mine, is true nor are they false. They are simply beliefs people use to order their perceptions based on few factoids never researched or experienced.

But it's easier than thinking.

rgraham666 said:

How is that different from thinking capitalism is good.

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It's an absolute, and in his worldview the opposite absolute to socialism. (An opposite, it's not a line, there's multiple axes. They oppose each other.)

Absolutes are evil. They thrive on conflict, as long as you're a pinko commie, you're wrong, and that makes any means to stop you righteous. Lawful Evil, economic antisocialism, political sociopathy. (Also, the more emotional person in every argument is wrong by default. that's the third axis. In his symbol set.)

He's an idealist, and you can't argue with an idealist, because even when he's wrong, he's right, and even when you're right, you're wrong, because he can just call you a left-wing conservative FTW.

rgraham666 said:

How is that different from thinking capitalism is good

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Because capitalism is good


I'm just kidding I know it's got it's shortcomings.

But it is M'erican, because liberty is supposed to be one of our core ideals.

Socialism is anti-liberty.

Capitalism is pro liberty.

M'erican = capitalism.....the freedom to pursue you happiness.

BotanyBoy said:

liberty is supposed to be one of our core ideals.

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Right, but an elitist liberty like intellectual superiority is a privilege, and you got it on the back of economic eugenics.

BotanyBoy said:

Capitalism is pro liberty.

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Of course, it is.

psiberzerker said:

Right, but an elitist liberty like intellectual superiority is a privilege, and you got it on the back of economic eugenics.

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No it's not you need to go look up the word privilege again.

No I didn't.

rgraham666 said:

Of course, it is.

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Nice, safe, warm and cuddly ain't got shit to do with liberty

BotanyBoy said:

No it's not you need to go look up the word privilege again.

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Elitism is exercising your privilege to clam your superiority. You're using it, intentionally. "That's not Privilege." instead of "Privilege doesn't exist." The economic eugenics is from tying school funding for Property Value. If you grew up in a good neighborhood, you grew up in a good school (Or a private one, which is also cashgated.) So, you had the privilege of being an artist, a hipster, an MBA yuppie, or whatever.

Bathroom privileges. Internet privileges, car privileges, while others are Restricted. College privileges, you've got a blackmetal cosplay of American Gothic as a profile picture. How many Black botanists have you ever worked with? How many women? Ever asked them how much they make (Same in Engineering.) What do you even wash that down with absenthe? MENSA is limited, exclusively to the top 2%, the intellectual priviledged who defined Intelligence. Wrote the stadardised test to place them on the top of the intellectual scrotum pole.

Wealth is a measure of Privilege. Of power disparity, in a capitalist government. Check that shit. Check your bullshit. You have the privilege to deny your privilege.

rgraham666 said:

*Why do we still use the boarding requirements of horses to order our politics?

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I'm slow tonight and didn't catch that one. "Boarding requirements of horses" ??

psiberzerker said:

Elitism is exercising your privilege to clam your superiority.

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No it's not, and that's not a privilege.

You're just spouting lefty buzz words, you forgot to drop "corporate" something in there.

psiberzerker said:

The economic eugenics is from tying school funding for Property Value. If you grew up in a good neighborhood, you grew up in a good school (Or a private one, which is also cashgated.)

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You need to look up eugenics, again you're just creating definitions for words.

psiberzerker said:

So, you had the privilege of being an artist, a hipster, an MBA yuppie, or whatever.

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Those aren't privileges....

psiberzerker said:

College privileges, you've got a blackmetal cosplay of American Gothic as a profile picture.

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College isn't a privilege.

psiberzerker said:

How many Black botanists have you ever worked with? How many women?

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What's that got to do with ANYTHING?

psiberzerker said:

Wealth is a measure of Privilege.

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No it's not.

Wealth is a measure of profitable exchanges.

BotanyBoy said:

You need to look up eugenics, again you're just creating definitions for words.

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Look up ghetto, greenwood race riots, and krystalnacht. that sepration of people, and preferrential education of some, whiole leaving others illeterate, and out of power is one of the primary tactics of Eugeinics. it's also exactly where your intellectual priviledges come from. Your nice school, your good grades, your college degree, all of it was your entitlement, from birth, based on where you grew up.

Economic Eugenics. Money is a privilege. So is education.

psiberzerker said:

Look up ghetto, greenwood race riots, and krystalnacht. that sepration of people, and preferrential education of some, whiole leaving others illeterate, and out of power is one of the primary tactics of Eugeinics.

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Holy fuck....fragmented, run on, and incomplete sentence much?

None of those things change the definition of privilege or eugenics or the fact that you're misusing them.

psiberzerker said:

it's also exactly where your intellectual priviledges come from. Your nice school, your good grades, your college degree, all of it was your entitlement, from birth, based on where you grew up.

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No it's not and you still need to look up privilege, now entitlement too.

psiberzerker said:

Economic Eugenics. Money is a privilege. So is education.

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Money is not a privilege and neither is education.

You really need to look up what 'privilege' means.

BotanyBoy said:

Holy fuck....fragmented, run on, and incomplete sentence much?

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You forgot to check my speling.

None of those things change the definition of privilege or eugenics or the fact that you're misusing them.

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That strategy defined Eugenics. Practical, active eugenics. Here, in England (And the commonwealth) Russia, and Germany. Every country that practices Eugenics, especially this one (And her magisty's commonwealth) start with seperating populations to better control them. It's how the native tribes were wiped out here, in India, Australia...

You really need to look up what 'privilege' means.

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You said that already. You have any other argument? Saying it over and over gain doesn't change the truth.

No economic exchanges under capitalism are "free." None. The opposition capitalism vs. socialism = freedom vs. anti-freedom is meaningless.

America was not conceived in opposition to socialism. The Revolution was not a revolt against socialism. There have always been many socialist experiments and movements in American history = not illegal. Part of American "freedom."

If a state wanted to start running itself as socialist, it would be perfectly free to do so. If the whole country decided to turn socialist it would be perfectly free to choose that. Capitalism does not define America.

You may not like socialism, but trying to make it un-American, the very antithesis of America is, is ludicrous.

Talk about buzzwords and trigger words like "corporate." You're operating from a 1950s manual. Next you'll be talking about Commies. Anyone I don't like is a Commie Socialist and un-American.

American freedom and liberty = democracy = "a system of government by the whole population or all the eligible members of a state, typically through elected representatives."

Democracy does not equal and is not synonymous with capitalism.

BotanyBoy said:

Because capitalism is good


I'm just kidding I know it's got it's shortcomings.

But it is M'erican, because liberty is supposed to be one of our core ideals.

Socialism is anti-liberty.

Capitalism is pro liberty.

M'erican = capitalism.....the freedom to pursue you happiness.

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