Active-duty troops may not be used for law enforcement in USA

wickedpanda said:

Securing our borders from an invading force is not a police matter, its a national defense matter, so no prize spanky.

Didn't see anyone complaining when the national guard is used as cops during disasters, oops reality vs Trump hate!

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I don't recall the same level of spittle and frothing when Obama deployed troops to the southern border, coincidentally at "around" the same point in his presidency.

wickedpanda said:

Securing our borders from an invading force is not a police matter, its a national defense matter, so no prize spanky.

Didn't see anyone complaining when the national guard is used as cops during disasters, oops reality vs Trump hate!

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gunthernehmen said:

I don't recall the same level of spittle and frothing when Obama deployed troops to the southern border, coincidentally at "around" the same point in his presidency.

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Are both of you too young to remember Jade Helm 15?

phrodeau said:

Are both of you too young to remember Jade Helm 15?

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ROFL

But the RIGHT is the side accused of paranoia?

That's precious. I needed that. Thank you. Literally wiping tears from my eyes.

gunthernehmen said:

ROFL

But the RIGHT is the side accused of paranoia?

That's precious. I needed that. Thank you. Literally wiping tears from my eyes.

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’Twas Republican Governor Greg Abbott who alerted the Texas State Guard to keep an eye on Obama’s military operations. Shed a tear for him.

phrodeau said:

’Twas Republican Governor Greg Abbott who alerted the Texas State Guard to keep an eye on Obama’s military operations. Shed a tear for him.

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Sure, but you're the guy that dragged it up years later to (I suppose) support your claim that President Trump is evil.

Although it was a democratic president that was in charge at the time...

Cripes, do you actually look up any of this stuff before you post it?

Rose4Emily said:

This may be true, but the use of active duty regular military forces for domestic law enforcement is a dangerous precedent to set.

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The precedent has already been set, American history didn't begin the day you were born. Federal troops were used twice in Los Angeles alone, in the Watts riots in the 60s and the more recent Rodney King riots in the 90s. Federal troops were also used in the 50s to desegregate the South and enforce federal law in Alabama and Arkansas..

phrodeau said:

If the migrants throw rocks, we shoot them, right? Then Honduras retaliates and we're in a new war, thanks to Trump's insistence to always hit back ten times harder.

Or if the migrants are assured of safe harbor and the possibility of asylum, they won't even pick up any rocks to throw. They might even be willing to take some of those vacant jobs we have so many of lately. I hear Honduran food is good; we could trade recipes. Good baseball players, too.

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Under international law they are required to seek asylum in the first free country they enter, which in this case is Mexico.

Oh, and no cop or anyone else in America is required to take a rock to the face. Deadly force is authorized against any assault with a deadly weapon.

Rightguide said:

Under international law they are required to seek asylum in the first free country they enter, which in this case is Mexico.

Oh, and no cop or anyone else in America is required to take a rock to the face. Deadly force is authorized against any assault with a deadly weapon.

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Could you document your claim that asylum seekers are required to seek asylum in the first county they enter? Somehow this does not ring true to me. Maybe this is a confusion over words- they can certainly request asylum i a third county, I think. Look at all the asylum seekers in Germany who arrived in Europe in Greece or Italy.

Rightguide said:

The precedent has already been set, American history didn't begin the day you were born. Federal troops were used twice in Los Angeles alone, in the Watts riots in the 60s and the more recent Rodney King riots in the 90s. Federal troops were also used in the 50s to desegregate the South and enforce federal law in Alabama and Arkansas..

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Thank you. The OP does specialize in fake news.

srgreene said:

Could you document your claim that asylum seekers are required to seek asylum in the first county they enter? Somehow this does not ring true to me. Maybe this is a confusion over words- they can certainly request asylum i a third county, I think. Look at all the asylum seekers in Germany who arrived in Europe in Greece or Italy.

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I don't have the cite, but I think it's grounded in the refugee act of 1951. I will check. But at any rate the President under the Constitution and federal law can exercise authority to deny entry to any alien or class of aliens:

“Whenever the president finds that the entry of any aliens or of any class of aliens into the United States would be detrimental to the interests of the United States, he may by proclamation, and for such period as he shall deem necessary, suspend the entry of all aliens or any class of aliens as immigrants or nonimmigrants, or impose on the entry of aliens any restrictions he may deem to be appropriate.”

8 USC 1182 (14) F

Something the judge in San Francisco fails to consider but that the SCOTUS reaffirmed not too long ago.

The reality is that very few of these refugees will qualify under the current asylum rules. A lot depends on how they word their request. Looking for a better life, looking for a job, wanting something better for the children are not on the asylum eligible list. They were not told how long it would take to get asylum if they are eligible, it takes months sometimes years. Most will get tired of waiting and try to find jobs in Mexico. A few will get tired of waiting and try to enter illegally and will probably be stopped. The people that organized this were mostly interested in drawing attention to the plight of the people in these Central American countries. But it is the people that will get caught up in the politics and the hardships that will occur from this mess.

sharingfantasies said:

The reality is that very few of these refugees will qualify under the current asylum rules. A lot depends on how they word their request. Looking for a better life, looking for a job, wanting something better for the children are not on the asylum eligible list. They were not told how long it would take to get asylum if they are eligible, it takes months sometimes years. Most will get tired of waiting and try to find jobs in Mexico. A few will get tired of waiting and try to enter illegally and will probably be stopped. The people that organized this were mostly interested in drawing attention to the plight of the people in these Central American countries. But it is the people that will get caught up in the politics and the hardships that will occur from this mess.

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The object now is to make them wait in Mexico, it could be a long wait.

Rightguide said:

The object now is to make them wait in Mexico, it could be a long wait.

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Yeah, the situation would be better if they took the money they are spending on the military sitting around the border and hiring more people to process the asylum requests. Then those that aren't going to get in will know and can start looking for work or go back to the interior of Mexico to look for work. The longer all those people are sitting around waiting, the larger chance there will be issues.

^^ Or just induct them into the military and make them earn citizenship.

sharingfantasies said:

The reality is that very few of these refugees will qualify under the current asylum rules. A lot depends on how they word their request. Looking for a better life, looking for a job, wanting something better for the children are not on the asylum eligible list. They were not told how long it would take to get asylum if they are eligible, it takes months sometimes years. Most will get tired of waiting and try to find jobs in Mexico. A few will get tired of waiting and try to enter illegally and will probably be stopped. The people that organized this were mostly interested in drawing attention to the plight of the people in these Central American countries. But it is the people that will get caught up in the politics and the hardships that will occur from this mess.

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I'm guessing few if any of the organizers are AMONG the caravan and fewer still will have their own lives materially affected no matter how it turns out. Unlike the pawns they're putting in harms way. But it's for a good cause...

srgreene said:

Could you document your claim that asylum seekers are required to seek asylum in the first county they enter? Somehow this does not ring true to me. Maybe this is a confusion over words- they can certainly request asylum i a third county, I think. Look at all the asylum seekers in Germany who arrived in Europe in Greece or Italy.

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International law allows any nation to refuse refugees if they arrived through a safe third nation. Mexico does not qualify as a safe third nation.

gunthernehmen said:

I don't recall the same level of spittle and frothing when Obama deployed troops to the southern border, coincidentally at "around" the same point in his presidency.

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gunthernehmen said:

Sure, but you're the guy that dragged it up years later to (I suppose) support your claim that President Trump is evil.

Although it was a democratic president that was in charge at the time...

Cripes, do you actually look up any of this stuff before you post it?

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What the fuck. Do you just give up trying to follow arguments after a while?

Force Mexico To Pay For It!

Who will give food and shelter to the caravan, if America forces the caravan to stay in Mexico ?

(Is forcing Mexico to keep asylum seekers on the Mexican side of the border, a way blackmail Mexico, into paying for Trump's Wall ?)


November 24, 2018

Deal with Mexico paves way for asylum overhaul at U.S. border

The Trump administration has won the support of Mexico’s incoming government for a plan to remake U.S. border policy by requiring asylum seekers to wait in Mexico while their claims move through U.S. courts, according to Mexican officials and senior members of President-elect Andrés Manuel López Obrador’s transition team.

According to outlines of the plan, known as Remain in Mexico, asylum applicants at the border will have to stay in Mexico while their cases are processed, potentially ending the system, which Trump decries as “catch and release,” that has generally allowed those seeking refuge to wait on safer U.S. soil.

While no formal agreement has been signed, and U.S. officials caution that many details must still be discussed, the incoming Mexican government is amenable to the concept of turning their country in to a waiting room for America’s asylum system.

Alarmed by Trump’s deployment of U.S. military forces to California, Arizona and Texas, and his threats to close busy border crossings, Mexican officials were further determined to take action after migrants traveling as part of a caravan forced their way onto Mexican soil last month, pushing past police blockades at the border with Guatemala.



https://www.texastribune.org/2018/11/24/deal-mexico-paves-way-asylum-overhaul-us-border/

Economic pressure on Mexico- How much Mexican products and produce are sent into America ? Would restricted entrances at the Mexico/America border cause problems ?

"Nice lettuce shipment you have there"
"Would be a shame, if it were to rot at the border."

How many American businesses have factories and installations in Mexico ?

Mattis Visits Troops At Border

(Trump's campaign to kill legitimate journalism, has Mattis as a cheerleader ?)

NOV. 14, 2018

"We determined that the mission was absolutely legal, and this was also reviewed by Department of Justice lawyers,” Mattis said on the plane. “It’s obviously a moral and ethical mission to support our border patrolmen. There’s nothing new under the sun.”


The defense secretary suggested the soldiers should disregard the controversy surrounding the mission that has surfaced in the news media.

“There’s all sorts of stuff in the news, and that sort of thing,” Mattis told a group of soldiers. “You just concentrate on what your company commander, your battalion commander, tells you. Because if you read all that stuff, you know, you’ll go nuts.”


The Pentagon initially dubbed the active-duty operation “Faithful Patriot.” Mattis later ordered the military to scrap the name and describe the mission as border support.

“When the name of the mission first came in, I had given instructions, ‘I do not want to put this mission in some arcane military terms. If what we’re doing is laying wire, don’t talk about implementing a barrier plan,’” Mattis said.

https://www.texastribune.org/2018/1...oyment-great-training-while-visiting-troops-/

(gsgs comment-This concertina does not play.)

I'm assuming, until/unless I hear otherwise, that the United States will be footing the bill for the Mexico holding system, whether or not this is ever acknowledged to the American public.

phrodeau said:

What the fuck. Do you just give up trying to follow arguments after a while?

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Were we arguing?

You said something about options for dealing with the immigrants and then suggested using troops to secure the border is fine. (Which both I and former president Obama agree with you on)

gotsnowgotslush said:

Force Mexico To Pay For It!

Who will give food and shelter to the caravan, if America forces the caravan to stay in Mexico ?

(Is forcing Mexico to keep asylum seekers on the Mexican side of the border, a way blackmail Mexico, into paying for Trump's Wall ?)

TLDR

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Of course, Mexico could have secured their own southern border better. Had they done so, they wouldn't be knocking on OUR door. So it seems fair they should help out.

However, I don't have an issue contributing food and water to help them out.

KeithD said:

I'm assuming, until/unless I hear otherwise, that the United States will be footing the bill for the Mexico holding system, whether or not this is ever acknowledged to the American public.

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I'm sure that the real-estate magnate in the Oval Office will find a way to monetize it.

phrodeau said:

I'm sure that the real-estate magnate in the Oval Office will find a way to monetize it.

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He'll just use the aid he pulled from central American countries from which the INVADERS originated.

gunthernehmen said:

How exactly is using military force to defend the border from what amounts to an invading army, violating PCA?

Maybe Border Patrol should call 911 every time they see an illegal?! ROFL

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40 somethings posts later and nobody has stepped up to explain just how defending a nation's borders is a police action.

So I guess the only possibility is the OP was just bullshitting...

gunthernehmen said:

40 somethings posts later and nobody has stepped up to explain just how defending a nation's borders is a police action.

So I guess the only possibility is the OP was just bullshitting...

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Show us an invading army, and you'll get an answer.