Here we go again, insanity and guns.

Conager said:

Civil liberties aside, the cost of behavioral health way we are doint it is insane. Far cheaper to centralize those needing care. I assume that we're helping people cost about the same amount as prisons probably a little bit less because with drugs you got a little more compliant populace. Call it 20k per year per patient. We are spending far more than that on various Behavioral Health Centers and case managers, various benefits like housing and transportation.

If you get three doctors saying that it's better for the person to be institutionalized than outside... in they go. You separate doctors on these panels from having anything to do with profit incentives of those that are institutionalized so the decision makers are not the caregivers.

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RobDownSouth said:

Given your long documented board history of alts, sock puppets and lying, you are probably the last person to lecture ANYONE on personal integrity. You should never be taken at your word on any subject.


The above sounds like you are either hyperventilating or having a stroke. Or both. It's all good.


Shorter Queerbait: "My mouth got caught writing a check my ass can't cash. Waaaaah!"

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4est_4est_Gump said:

As the OP points out, the Left will do everything in its power to prevent any sort of institutionalization of those with mental health problems as it violates their civil right to liberty...

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Conager said:

Civil liberties aside, the cost of behavioral health way we are doint it is insane.

Far cheaper to centralize those needing care.
I assume that we're helping people cost about the same amount as prisons probably a little bit less because with drugs you got a little more compliant populace. Call it 20k per year per patient.

We are spending far more than that on various Behavioral Health Centers and case managers, various benefits like housing and transportation.

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4est_4est_Gump said:

As the OP points out, the Left will do everything in its power to prevent any sort of institutionalization of those with mental health problems as it violates their civil right to liberty...

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4est_4est_Gump said:

As the OP points out, the Left will do everything in its power to prevent any sort of institutionalization of those with mental health problems as it violates their civil right to liberty...

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tileguy said:

Maybe instead of treating these types and still allowing them back into society they should be kept locked up in the nuthouse like they used to do.

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Over 30 years ago, when Reagan was elected President in 1980, he discarded a law proposed by his predecessor that would have continued funding federal community mental health centers. This basically eliminated services for people struggling with mental illness.

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hashtag46 said:

Instead of making guns much less available more difgicult to attain, they're thinking about rounding up people and locking them up for life.

Everything else is the problem, but for Guns.

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tileguy said:

i know many sane people with guns that do no harm. control the crazy...problems go away. Quick and deserved punishment (i.e. follow thru with death sentence and make it prime time viewing) will make a change too.

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4est_4est_Gump said:

As the OP points out, the Left will do everything in its power to prevent any sort of institutionalization of those with mental health problems as it violates their civil right to liberty...

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Ishmael said:

I think there is enough information out there now concerning the Ft. Lauderdale shooter to conclude that he's a certifiable whack job. So where do we go from here?

Every single pro 2nd amendment organization out there agrees that the certifiably insane should have their 2nd amendment right stripped away (I would add voting to the list as well). No one but no one is arguing that point. The debate is over how to go about achieving that goal?

ACLU driven lawsuits and the subsequent SCOTUS decisions re. same have made it damn near impossible to institutionalize the whack jobs. Those suits and decisions go back to the mid 1970's and are the reason that the mental institutions were emptied out. Which is why, not in-coincidentally, there are so many whack jobs (most of the 'homeless' fall into that category) walking the streets today.

So how do you go about legitimately stripping an individual of their constitutional rights? A test? Who devises this 'test' and how is it administered? A complete psychiatric evaluation, who pays for it? Who selects the shrinks? How is it appealed if the results are against the individual being evaluated?

Got some notions on the subject?

Ishmael

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Conager said:

No.

If this is something that truly interest you simply call your local office for whatever your state calls Medicaid and ask to talk to the transportation department.

Or, easier, spend 20 minutes outside a behavioral health clinic and watch taxis, vans and mini-buses disembarking passengers. Assess their sartorial chp8ces and ask yourself how they can afford the cab ride.

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Conager said:

Difference is we are transporting the guy from case manager to clinic to pharmacy to home (that we pay for)
Easier and cheaper to centralize them.

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Conager said:

No.
Or, easier, spend 20 minutes outside a behavioral health clinic and watch taxis, vans and mini-buses disembarking passengers. Assess their sartorial chp8ces and ask yourself how they can afford the cab ride.

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Conager said:

Here is the Fefs discussing the problem of trandportation as it relstes to treatment of all mamner of ongoing medical treatments.

here we transport people to theiir appointments who are on medicaid and do not have personal transportation. We also transport them when it is medically not advisable that they transport themselves one of the most common examples is the two or three times a week to dialysis patients go to dialysis. They are picked up and returned home.

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about_average said:

Even with you coming back and editing your reply, you still didn't answer my question.

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Bray123 said:

There's way too many barrel-polishers in the USA to do anything about the basic problem, which is too many guns readily available to anyone with any inclination to own them.

Putting in place little clauses about the insane or felons means nothing when possession is so widespread; like thinking that suspending a licence forces a person to sell their car.

If people think that it's OK to carry a gun on an aircraft provided that it's in the luggage instead of the cabin, at least ban the person from carrying ammunition at the same time.

It's easy enough to go to Walmart and buy more, but at least wait until you get out of the baggage reclaim before you re-arm.

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Conager said:

I see I should have left it at "No."

Quite the contrary when I feel like it I research it down to the very last nub of it and then watch you just simply quietly slink away.

I'm still waiting for your cogent rebuttal to when you DEMANDED to know (as you usually do, "What SPECIFIC law was broken?!??" In the Lois Lerner case. I gave you statute numbers, statute texts, links thereto, professional commetary on cases prosecuted. You faded. Like you always do when anyone bothers to "prove" something to you. You obviously get off on trying to make people jump through hoops no matter how obvious and answer is. A person with any sense of Integrity would say, "Oh. Well, thanks I didn't know that." Instead of walking away like the cowardly pussy that you are.

I've said it before, people engaged in spirited cnversation and debate before it was even POSSIBLE to google for a citation.

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Ricky_Champagne said:

Are we the only country that ignores this problem? How do others deal with it?

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Conager said:

Few of your questions merit a reply, much less any specific answer you are seeking. You are Sgt Spidey with a pulse.

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about_average said:

You're going to have to link to that exchange, I don't recall it and can't find it.
I googled lit for every thread containing "lois lerner" and then searched for every post of mine in each of those threads and can't find that exchange.

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about_average said:

So you claim that Santiago was traveling on the taxpayer dime, or maybe you're implying your "solution" would have stopped him.
I ask for some evidence of that.
You spend the time to post a bunch of stuff in 2 replies to my question without answering my question then claim my question didn't merit a reply as the reason you didn't answer it.

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