How do I know if he is still cheating? Or how do I keep him from going back?

I feel so stupid asking, but I am at my wit’s end. He started having emotional affairs with women online three years ago. He meets them on message boards and some dating sites. I caught him two years ago, and he swore up and down he would stop. He said nothing was as important as our family and he loved me and only me. I believed him and we started to work on our marriage and to heal. I have been suspicious since I first caught him, but he is able to explain away my concerns and tells me I am looking for reasons to doubt him.

He swears he is faithful, but my inner voice will not stop telling me he is lying. Is it possible to go from messaging, cybering and sexting multiple women to leaving it all behind in one day? He messaged with one woman for over two years and now swears he ended it with her immediately, but I have no proof of who she was, and no way to verify what he tells me.

We have sex 2-3 each week and we don’t argue all that often. I try to be a good wife and give him what wants and needs. What am I doing wrong? I believe he continues to be unfaithful, but I do not know how to find the proof since it is all online, except for the woman he also talked to on the phone

Wife,

I have some ideas for you which you can use on his phone, computer and it might help you. Can you chat with me or Pm me here so I can bounce it through you

7wife12 said:

I feel so stupid asking, but I am at my wit’s end. He started having emotional affairs with women online three years ago. He meets them on message boards and some dating sites. I caught him two years ago, and he swore up and down he would stop. He said nothing was as important as our family and he loved me and only me. I believed him and we started to work on our marriage and to heal. I have been suspicious since I first caught him, but he is able to explain away my concerns and tells me I am looking for reasons to doubt him.

He swears he is faithful, but my inner voice will not stop telling me he is lying. Is it possible to go from messaging, cybering and sexting multiple women to leaving it all behind in one day? He messaged with one woman for over two years and now swears he ended it with her immediately, but I have no proof of who she was, and no way to verify what he tells me.

We have sex 2-3 each week and we don’t argue all that often. I try to be a good wife and give him what wants and needs. What am I doing wrong? I believe he continues to be unfaithful, but I do not know how to find the proof since it is all online, except for the woman he also talked to on the phone

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What's more important to you, having a happy, fulfilling marriage, or "catching him"?

query said:

What's more important to you, having a happy, fulfilling marriage, or "catching him"?

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A happy, fulfilling marriage with a man that is honest with me.

7wife12 said:

A happy, fulfilling marriage with a man that is honest with me.

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Then ditch this guy.

A dog is a dog is a dog. Once a cheat always a cheat and look at what you're doing. You're on a forum on a sex site asking how to catch him and what to do. People in happy marriages don't do this.

Send him packing to whatever woman he's sleeping with and find yourself a decent guy.

abvt75 said:

Wife,

I have some ideas for you which you can use on his phone, computer and it might help you. Can you chat with me or Pm me here so I can bounce it through you

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Then why not post those ideas here publicly, so multiple people have the opportunity to benefit from them?

7Wife12, is it possible your husband has a sex addiction of sorts? Have you presented that possibility to him, and asked him to consider it?

Either way, it sounds like his cheating is stemming from some core issues that he probably needs to address with a qualified professional or three. Some people carry on affairs like your husband's due to things like underlying depression, anxiety, stress, addiction, etc. Once their brains get that big chemical payoff from the thrill of the "chase" and forbidden activities, it can be very difficult to stop, so you intuition may very well be correct.

I'm sorry to say that there could be a RL component to his cheating, so it'd be wise for you to both get a full STI panel and use condoms until your husband is stable on the road to recovery from whatever it is that's the root cause of the cheating.

Have you gotten counseling for this? Has he? It might provide you peace of mind if you know he's working with a good therapist, looking for potential chemical imbalances with his doctor or a sharp psychiatrist, perhaps attending Sex Addicts Anonymous meetings, etc. You might be helped by a support group, like the Beyond Affairs Network, or online community specifically for people who have been cheated on.

Hang in there--I know how tough it is to deal with--and definitely trust your intuition.

7wife12 said:

I feel so stupid asking, but I am at my wit’s end. He started having emotional affairs with women online three years ago. He meets them on message boards and some dating sites. I caught him two years ago, and he swore up and down he would stop. He said nothing was as important as our family and he loved me and only me. I believed him and we started to work on our marriage and to heal. I have been suspicious since I first caught him, but he is able to explain away my concerns and tells me I am looking for reasons to doubt him.

He swears he is faithful, but my inner voice will not stop telling me he is lying. Is it possible to go from messaging, cybering and sexting multiple women to leaving it all behind in one day? He messaged with one woman for over two years and now swears he ended it with her immediately, but I have no proof of who she was, and no way to verify what he tells me.

We have sex 2-3 each week and we don’t argue all that often. I try to be a good wife and give him what wants and needs. What am I doing wrong? I believe he continues to be unfaithful, but I do not know how to find the proof since it is all online, except for the woman he also talked to on the phone

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It's the trying to be a good wife thing that can be a problem for women, especially in issues of trust and fidelity. Some men expect their wives to continue acting the same way, being the good wife. Getting beyond this role may be the key.

If your gut is telling you something is amiss, you already know. But you might go a long while accepting his excuses and explanations because you aren't ready to face the truth and the consequences of what that means. Just know that catching him with definitive proof may never happen, but you don't want to live in a marriage without trust do you?

Seek the help others have suggested, but trust yourself above all else.

Riles said:

If your gut is telling you something is amiss, you already know. But you might go a long while accepting his excuses and explanations because you aren't ready to face the truth and the consequences of what that means. Just know that catching him with definitive proof may never happen, but you don't want to live in a marriage without trust do you?

Seek the help others have suggested, but trust yourself above all else.

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I second that. It's about how you value yourself and the limits of your compromises. Each to their own, but personally trust is the foundation of any relationship.

Statistically, if you are asking the question "out loud", you already know the answer. The answer, however, is never quite so simple.

Wisdom and knowledge seldom equate to happiness, but neither, as you are finding, is ignorance bliss.

What you might pause to consider, if you are so inclined, is this question. Alone, without feedback from anyone else to reinforce any particular given emotion, would you be happy?

Certainly you want him to be honest with you. Is there anyone who wouldn't want honesty?

Well, except when I ask if this outfit makes me look fat. Then, I admit, I want you to lie your pretty ass off at me and tell me I look better than I did when I was in my late teens and captain of the football team and studying kickboxing three days a week.

Ok, that bit of levity might have been a little out of line. However, I think it is also a little germane as well. Do we really mean we want the person to be honest? Or do we really mean that we want to believe the nice things they say are honesty even, or especially, when we suspect they are lies?

I don't mean to be purposefully obtuse, nor do I intend to sound like a bad version of Mike Myers in "Love Guru". What I'm getting at is that no matter the sage advice that many will share (obviously barring THIS particular post since I'm out of sage and trying to make do with thyme), ultimately it is your relationship and you must make the decision what you will/won't abide from it and face the consequences of that decision for yourself.

Having said that, and at the risk of bruising the thyme I was sharing, speaking as one of the people SweetErika describes, I can admit this. Lovecraft68 has a certain point, if delivered in his usual "take no prisoners and what the fuck is this 'tact' you speak of?" style.

A drunk doesn't realize he is a drunk until rock bottom reaches up and punches him in the face. No one else will know a drunk is a drunk unless there is alcohol involved. And a drunk without the sauce is just a sober drunk until his next drink.

That's a pretty simplistic synopsis of the disease concept of addiction purported by the AMA. Substitute "sex addict", "cyber sex addict", "sexting addict", or whatever for "drunk", "cocaine addict", "methhead" or whatever and you get the same outcomes.

If he truly WAS addicted to sex, cyber sex, sex message boards, or whatever, then he still IS. That's the definition of an addict. Whether he is currently doing it or not, there is something down inside him that wants it only slightly less than you want the air you breath when you are on the bottom of the pool or your favorite foods when you have declared you are on a diet.

IF, that is, he is truly an addict.

Can he change? Certainly. People do every day. DID he change? As I said at the beginning, statistically speaking you probably already know the answer if you are admitting the question out loud.

Last but not least, I would ask you to ponder this. Often people claim to want "proof" when what they mean is they want an excuse so they won't feel like the bad guy in the equation for doing what they know in their gut is right for them. To be able to hold their head up amidst their peers and family and be able to say, "see? I'm not the bad guy!"

I have no more idea if that is the case in your case than I do whether or not he is a recovering addict or addict at all. Fortunately for me, none of them are questions that I need to figure out the answer to, but for you to decide for yourself.

Best wishes for the wind to be at your back and the sun out of your eyes in a brighter tomorrow.

My two cents

.....

Zwife 12

As a guy who's been where your husband is, I can't help wondering if you and he have really figured out what he needs from these other women and what you could do to provide what he's getting elsewhere. What sort of "thrill" does he get in his discussions with them that he doesn't get with you? You say that you want to be a good wife and give him what he needs but do you know what he really needs or is it your opinion that you're giving him what he needs? How honest can he be with you without you judging or getting angry or making him feel foolish or embarrassed? I may PM you with my thoughts and experiences because it may be too long and involved to post here.

The bottom line is that if you aren't really letting him be who he is without truly accepting him as he is, then it's a lost cause. The standard cliché in affairs is "my wife doesn't understand me." If he doesn't feel comfortable enough to be emotionally naked with you in a way that lets him feel secure and accepted, he will continue to seek it elsewhere. Most men (and women too I suppose) want to feel absolutely accepted without judgment. That may sound simple but it can be quite difficult if either partner wants the other to fit a mold that isn't really comfortable for the other.

7wife12 said:

I feel so stupid asking, but I am at my wit’s end. He started having emotional affairs with women online three years ago. He meets them on message boards and some dating sites. I caught him two years ago, and he swore up and down he would stop. He said nothing was as important as our family and he loved me and only me. I believed him and we started to work on our marriage and to heal. I have been suspicious since I first caught him, but he is able to explain away my concerns and tells me I am looking for reasons to doubt him.

He swears he is faithful, but my inner voice will not stop telling me he is lying. Is it possible to go from messaging, cybering and sexting multiple women to leaving it all behind in one day? He messaged with one woman for over two years and now swears he ended it with her immediately, but I have no proof of who she was, and no way to verify what he tells me.

We have sex 2-3 each week and we don’t argue all that often. I try to be a good wife and give him what wants and needs. What am I doing wrong? I believe he continues to be unfaithful, but I do not know how to find the proof since it is all online, except for the woman he also talked to on the phone

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Good heavens I could have written this post ...except the wife part but the rest of it...do all men do this?

Before getting into stuff like snooping on his email/phone, think about whether it's going to help.

If you do find evidence he's still cheating, I presume that would be the end of the relationship, and a messy end at that.

If you don't find evidence... is that going to restore your faith in him and make you feel better? Or will it leave you wondering whether he's just gotten better at hiding his tracks? In the end, a relationship that can only be sustained by surveillance probably isn't worth hanging on to.

If you do think you might be able to repair trust - and if you want to do that - then I'd suggest couples counselling. A good counsellor can make a big difference if both of you are willing to work on stuff.

But if you don't feel that you will ever trust him again, better to call it quits. Do not feel that you have to find some sort of evidence to justify that decision; it's better for everybody not to drag out a relationship if it doesn't have a future.

isabellepain said:

Good heavens I could have written this post ...except the wife part but the rest of it...do all men do this?

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Haha!! I was thinking the same thing!!!

amofiga said:

Zwife 12

As a guy who's been where your husband is, I can't help wondering if you and he have really figured out what he needs from these other women and what you could do to provide what he's getting elsewhere. What sort of "thrill" does he get in his discussions with them that he doesn't get with you? You say that you want to be a good wife and give him what he needs but do you know what he really needs or is it your opinion that you're giving him what he needs? How honest can he be with you without you judging or getting angry or making him feel foolish or embarrassed? I may PM you with my thoughts and experiences because it may be too long and involved to post here.

The bottom line is that if you aren't really letting him be who he is without truly accepting him as he is, then it's a lost cause. The standard cliché in affairs is "my wife doesn't understand me." If he doesn't feel comfortable enough to be emotionally naked with you in a way that lets him feel secure and accepted, he will continue to seek it elsewhere. Most men (and women too I suppose) want to feel absolutely accepted without judgment. That may sound simple but it can be quite difficult if either partner wants the other to fit a mold that isn't really comfortable for the other.

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I think amofiga certainly has a point here. I guess when you discovered what he had done you talked a lot about how it hurt you, how it affected your relationship, how you could rebuild trust and why your relationship was more important to him than being in contact with the other ladies. I assume you also talked about what he was looking for with the other ladies but did he really tell you what it was or were there more “empty phrases” like “thrill”, “alternation”, “fresh”, “escape from every day life” or “adventure”? I can very well imagine that it was hard for him to tell you what he was looking for with those ladies. He felt guilty and knew he did something wrong so saying to you “I did that because I don’t get this, this and that from you” might have felt as if he was blaming you – and it might have hurt you more. And if he thinks you might not react well to hearing his fantasies that will make it even more difficult for him to open up.

However I do think that it is possible to stop cybering. Many men know it is not right to do so and that their wives/girlfriends would be hurt but for them there are blurred lines there and they keep telling themselves that it is not cheating as they don’t touch another woman (or man), that it is hardly different from watching porn. So when the topic does come up in the relationship and the lines are not blurred anymore but it is absolutely clear it is against the relationship’s rules there are many men who stop it.

I have no idea whether your husband stopped or not but if we assume he really wanted to stop does it really matter? If he stopped what you have to do now is to learn to trust him again. If he could not stop although he really wanted to you want to help him stop. In both cases a good step would be communication: talking about what he really actually looked for with the other women. If he opens up and confides in you, tells you things you did not know about before and fantasies he might be embarrassed to admit you will feel that it will help you trust him as he is all vulnerable and open then. If he shares those things with you you will no longer be excluded from that area of his mind. On the other hand with you accepting those things you will make it more unlikely he will go to other women looking for acceptance.

That can be a very hard process as you have no idea what might come out once you start it. But as amofiga already pointed out there is often the element of not being understood by the partner if a man (or woman) looks for someone else for cybering, especially if there are not only quick encounters but deeper relationships that last for a while. I have talked to quite a lot of men who were in relationships and many of them said “I love my wife/girlfriend to death, she is a wonderful woman, but she does not understand.” I also heard “I wish she was a bit like you”. And I did not play with all of them (by far) nor did I agree to all their fantasies but I listened and tried to understand.

So what you can do if you actually have this talk are two things: keep reminding yourself that sexual fantasies are just that: sexual fantasies. Whatever your husband might come up with it does not change who he is. He will still be the same father he has been, he will still be the same son he has been. He will most likely remain the same husband in every day life. He is still funny, witty, strong, protective or whatever you love about him. You might see a new side of him but that does not change what you already know. And secondly, if he says something that is too much for (which might happen if he really opens up) don’t judge him. Tell him it is too much for you in that moment but that it does not mean he is a sick pervert. Think about it and read. It is very likely that you will have exactly that fetish/activity discussed somewhere here on Lit. And in every section there are nice, helpful people who are willing to help and to explain. Yes, those things might never be something you will do or enjoy but purely understanding and accepting them will bring you two much closer together. And who knows? With your input and different point of view you might figure out new ways of playing and activities that will be refreshing or even mind blowing for both of you.

Good luck and best wishes to you.

Zulae

Good points in your above post. I've PM'ed the OP and tried to explain my experiences with this and what drove me to it and what I get from it. Maybe she'll understand. I think it goes both ways. I've had experiences with women whose "HUSBANDS" don't understand them and can't understand their hidden desires and needs. I lot of men suffer from "Madonna/Whore" conflict issues and can't accept that their wives want open sexuality and expression of deep dark fantasies as much as men do.

One of the women with whom I had an affair in the past was a married woman with two kids who was a special ed teacher, leader of her church bible study group and a certified marriage counselor. Yet there whe was herself having an affair. Why? Her husband could accept the mom and the church lady but not the secret slut inside her that yearned for hot dirty sex. She was sugar coated on the outside but there was a vixen on the inside that her husband wouldn't/couldn't accept. She wrote an article secrets. It's the sharing of the secret selves that is usually the real satisfaction in affairs more so than some particular sex act. It's the feeling of being understood and accepted as well as letting the other person know that they too are understood and accepted.

Thank you all for your advice, here and via PM, I am toying with the idea of a keylogger as a few members have suggested. For some reason I am wanting the cold hard proof. I want to know I am not crazy.

He could be a sex addict in one form or another, and although when this all started i might have been willing to help him through it, if I am right about the ongoing lies and betrayal, I cannot see standing by him for years of therapy that may not work.

I feel like he is sucking the life out of me. I suppose it is time to research keyloggers.

7wife12 said:

I feel like he is sucking the life out of me. I suppose it is time to research keyloggers.

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And the legal implications.

A criminal offence is going to backfire in a contested divorce.

7wife12 said:

Thank you all for your advice, here and via PM, I am toying with the idea of a keylogger as a few members have suggested. For some reason I am wanting the cold hard proof. I want to know I am not crazy.

He could be a sex addict in one form or another, and although when this all started i might have been willing to help him through it, if I am right about the ongoing lies and betrayal, I cannot see standing by him for years of therapy that may not work.

I feel like he is sucking the life out of me. I suppose it is time to research keyloggers.

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7wife12,

Have you thought this all through, beyond what you're feeling right now, and how it potentially plays out?

You are feeling betrayed, more than a little stung, and there is no trust, which is totally understandable. And now you are considering the sneaky-sneaky stuff.
Why? To catch him and say "Ah Haa! You sneaky bastard!" What if you don't find anything? Will you be able to move on and start rebuilding your relationship then?

What if what you do find is not conclusive, or "cold and hard" as you've put it. When does it stop being about being vindicated? At what point would you start believing him, if ever at all?

You really have to decide (and it kinda sounds like you already have) whether you want the relationship, and it is worth salvaging, or you do not. You either decide a second chance is warranted and you both move towards re-establishing trust, communication, intimacy, etc, or you don't.
If you do, it will be a tough road for both of you and success is not guaranteed.
If you don't, it is time to work out how things will be apart, focusing on how to best serve your roles as divorced parents.

The energy and focus you will put into "catching" him, is energy and focus not being used to repair and heal, and look after the kid(s), who needn't be subject to the brunt of the fallout and collateral damage from all of this. And how different is it really than the focus and energy he used online? Both are taking you away from where your responsibilities should be, and neither serves the relationship well.

You still need to be good parents, even if you can't be a good married couple.

A relationship where both involved are not working towards a stronger, more loving relationship is just a doomed relationship. It is inevitable, and just a matter of the time before it all goes to pieces.

If you want to work on things and feel there is something good, positive, and strong to come out on the other side of this, counselling with a qualified professional (as recommended in above posts) would be the best place to start. Maybe spend time researching that instead of key loggers.

Good luck to you both and your family.


*** Just curious, why did you bring this question to Lit? You're either a new poster and I am genuinely curious as to how you came about posting your questions here in the How To, or you are an alt (need for anonymity understood) of someone who is familiar with Lit. In which case the question begs to be asked, does your husband know you lurk / post here? No judgement, implied or otherwise, just curious.

Again, all the best to you and yours as you face some challenging times ahead.

Emerson40 said:

Have you thought this all through, beyond what you're feeling right now, and how it potentially plays out?

...

What if what you do find is not conclusive, or "cold and hard" as you've put it. When does it stop being about being vindicated? At what point would you start believing him, if ever at all?

You really have to decide (and it kinda sounds like you already have) whether you want the relationship, and it is worth salvaging, or you do not. You either decide a second chance is warranted and you both move towards re-establishing trust, communication, intimacy, etc, or you don't.
If you do, it will be a tough road for both of you and success is not guaranteed.
If you don't, it is time to work out how things will be apart, focusing on how to best serve your roles as divorced parents.

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Seconding all of this. I went through a bad break-up some years back and, yeah, I really wanted some outcome that would let me feel vindicated, establish that she was in the right and I was in the wrong. I think just about everybody who's been betrayed feels that way, but hanging on to it just leaves you bitter and interferes with the stuff that you have to deal with, like raising children.

BTW, even if you're not persuaded that keylogging etc would be a bad idea on the emotional side of things, I would strongly encourage you to get legal advice before you go down this road - I'm not sure what the legality is of keyloggers in your jurisdiction, or whether it's the sort of thing that could hurt you in a divorce hearing.

Can't confess to be an expert on these matters, nor have I been in a situation like this. But having read what you've said it strikes me that the trust in your relationship has taken an extended vacation. Guilty or not seems a moot point at this stage as rather than looking for ways to build trust, to work things out your instead putting the energy into finding evidence. If you find no evidence your always going to wonder about a potential next time, if you do find proof then what? Call it a day?

As for finding the proof, be very careful. As some have already pointed out some methods are illegal and potentially damaging to you personally.

I have walked in your shoes. For me it wasn't so much whatever fantasy he wants as it is the sneaking and lies. Am I hurt, yes ... do I have a part in it, yes. I know that I am only able to be who I am and there are probably some lines I won't cross that he is interested in. For me, the hiding - secrets - lies break a trust bond. And if I don't trust you, then I shut down and shut you out. When I shut him out, he turns more to online activities. A vicious cycle.

We are a work in progress. When the hairs on my neck start to tingle I know he is hiding things from me. I throw up the "bat signal" and we have a conversation. Since we do love each other he has to know what hurts me and causes me to shut him out and he has to love me enough to stop. It doesn't always work and isn't always perfect. But as I showed him this morning the benefits of a relaxed horny wife outweigh any hand job he could ever give himself .

TerrysSexyWife said:

I have walked in your shoes. For me it wasn't so much whatever fantasy he wants as it is the sneaking and lies. Am I hurt, yes ... do I have a part in it, yes. I know that I am only able to be who I am and there are probably some lines I won't cross that he is interested in. For me, the hiding - secrets - lies break a trust bond. And if I don't trust you, then I shut down and shut you out. When I shut him out, he turns more to online activities. A vicious cycle.

We are a work in progress. When the hairs on my neck start to tingle I know he is hiding things from me. I throw up the "bat signal" and we have a conversation. Since we do love each other he has to know what hurts me and causes me to shut him out and he has to love me enough to stop. It doesn't always work and isn't always perfect. But as I showed him this morning the benefits of a relaxed horny wife outweigh any hand job he could ever give himself .

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This^ is how it works.

Some spouses who have been cheated on are totally upfront about wanting to install monitoring software (keyloggers, text message monitors, family mapping apps, etc.). And sometimes just knowing these applications are or could be installed is helpful for both spouses. The spouse who was violated gets some peace of mind while the relationship is worked on, and the cheating spouse may feel it's helpful to keep him or her on the right track while s/he's working through the issues that led to the cheating.

It doesn't have to be all sneaky. You can say something like, "I really need us to work through your issues in counseling and to have full access to your electronic devices while we're doing that. I may need to install some software on those devices for my own peace of mind and emotional health, and I hope you view that as an opportunity to help you rebuild my trust and heal."

No amount of monitoring is going to keep a cheater from figuring out how they can cheat, but a reasonable amount for a time may help a recovering cheater stay out of trouble, especially when combined with healthy coping strategies like distraction, hobbies, therapy and focusing on their significant other and family.