Thank you for your full and frank reply, I guess we have to agree to differ. I suppose people like you could even make paedophilia sound like it was intended because thats the way of your arguement. Will that be referred to as bullshit also? Can you not see that there is a damage that is caused by a sexual relationship that has no right in common decency and society. There is also an increase in genetic defects attached to "inbreeding" or doesnt that matter either.
Jacqui
JacquiMyDarkestDays
Virgin
- Joined
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- Posts
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It's as simple as this...
If it's between 2 consenting people that know what they are getting into, no matter what age...and they love each other...and there is no force, then there should be no problem. Sex between a consenting brother and sister that know what could come of the sex is no different than anybody else that has consenting sex. Sex in this, the purest sweetest form, is what sex is...doesn't matter if it's brother/sister or husband wife. As long as both sides are aware of possible consequences...then...what's the deal?
If it's between 2 consenting people that know what they are getting into, no matter what age...and they love each other...and there is no force, then there should be no problem. Sex between a consenting brother and sister that know what could come of the sex is no different than anybody else that has consenting sex. Sex in this, the purest sweetest form, is what sex is...doesn't matter if it's brother/sister or husband wife. As long as both sides are aware of possible consequences...then...what's the deal?
Kinky
WOW!!!!!
I did the cousin thing.
the mom thing is yucky.
So on the same note I think the father daughter is just as nasty.
I'm a dad, and my daughter, while I'm painfully aware that she is awfully cute, (all the teenage boys that just started hanging out around the front of my house was the final clue) is by no means sexy to me.
That said, I belive to each his own, and as long as everyone is old enough....bla bla bla
But for me, NO-WAY!
WOW!!!!!
I did the cousin thing.
the mom thing is yucky.
So on the same note I think the father daughter is just as nasty.
I'm a dad, and my daughter, while I'm painfully aware that she is awfully cute, (all the teenage boys that just started hanging out around the front of my house was the final clue) is by no means sexy to me.
That said, I belive to each his own, and as long as everyone is old enough....bla bla bla
But for me, NO-WAY!
G
Guest
Guest
Zidane said:
SlyFox
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Zidane said:
Well, once again, Zidane, you've stepped into the wrong pile if that statement is meant to prove your rather obscure point of view. You see, I DO have both a son and a daughter. And they are both fully aware of my position on this subject. Hell, they've read most of my work for Christ's sake. Did I ever say to either of them, "Hey, go fuck your brother (or sister) and I mean that literally." No, of course I didn't. But the subject has been discussed many times, particularly since they have become adults. But the truth of the matter is that they simply have NO sexual attraction for each other. Nor do they necessarily agree with my convictions - it's simpy a non-issue for them.
Sorry to burst your latest bubble. I'm pretty sure that just about everyone who has read this and other incest threads are fully aware of your hide bound position on the subject. So why don't we just give it a rest for awhile?
SlyFox
SlyFox
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Jacqui said:
Well, Jacqui, I must say you really have a knack for resorting to the inflammable phrases and anologies in trying to "prove" your point of view. First you "thank" me for a "full and frank" reply, then you in essence blatantly suggest that I support and or promote pedophilia. I resent that inference in the most adamant terms. You will find nothing here or anywhere else that I have written to even suggest that I support such a heinous act - whether the perpertrator is related to the child victim or not. I have spoken consistently about the CONSENSUAL sexual activities between adult relatives - Never about adults exploiting children sexually. And I will thank you to remember that distinction in any further posts you make to this and other similar threads.
So disagree with me all you want - but please refrain from making such ignorant, inflammatory, stupid, untrue and totally uncalled for allegations towards me.
Again, I must ask - Who's "society"? Who's "common decency"? And just who the hell are you to tell anyone what their sexual relationship should or should not be? Who gave you that right?
I repeat that you tend to reveal yourself as an overly opionated, self-righteous zealot who absolutely must impose their own brand of "morality, common decency, and what is sexually permissable" on the rest of the world.
As to the "genetic defects" argument what does "inbreeding" have to do with it? Again you use a highly inflammatory word to prove your point and succeed only in further exhibiting your ignorance. If you knew anything at all about genetics and inbreeding you would know that it is used quite successfully to develope and encourage desirable traits and characteristics and to discourage or eliminate undesireable ones.
But we're not talking about "breeding" - "in" or otherwise. We're talking about mutually desired and enjoyed sexual activities between two or more closely related individuals. Whether they choose to ignore modern birth control measures or simply decide to induce a pregnancy - that is THEIR business and their choice. Not yours! And not mine!
SlyFox
Well, thanks to Sly Fox's well thought-out rebuttle, I feel almost no need to rebut. There are, however a few other statements that I'd like to make...
I appreciate your ability to recognize that each of us is entitled to our opinion. That's big of you and a wonderful start. And, by the way, there are no letters behind my name as of yet. I am working toward that but it's in the far distant future. Regardless of letters, I amnot looking to be bowed to. I merely believe that one should try to be objective, reasonable, and logical in looking at ANY subject and try to avoid being inflamatory and emotional.
Clearly, we BOTH have a vested interest in the subject or we would not be commenting on this thread with such passion. As for the rest of your statement (and many others you have made prior to this) I would like to make an appeal to reason. Your argumentation, passionate though it may be, is not logically sound. In addition you seem to feel the need to resort to inflamatory logical fallacies to prove your point, not to sound reasoning. I can specify where and when you have done this if you like, and explain why your statements are unsound. That would take a lot of writing, though, and I don't want to bore the readers of the thread.
I certainly is a crime... but only in some places and the details of the law vary from place to place. If it is a crime where you are, don't engage in it unless you are willing to accept the potential consequences. Bt the way, at one point, it was illegal for women to vote. Did that make the women of the time who wanted to vote morally abhorant? Sometimes laws are woefully out of date and need changed.
In conclusion (to this particular post), I'd like to appeal to your subjectivity and reason and ask you to be more objective and reasonable. I'm not asking you to adopt my point of view nor to practice anything that violates your ethical beliefs. I am merely stating and defending my belief that sex between two consenting adults, whatever their relation, provided that they are making an informed decision as to the pro's and con's of potential outcomes both physical and psychological is not morally wrong. The individuals involved need to make the decision as to whether or not it violates their respective ethics and go forward from there. It is not our place to judge.
For the record, I have never been involved in any type of incestual relationship personally. It does, however, make for some really hot fantasies!
'nuff said
Jacqui said:Of course you are perfectly correct in what you are saying, everyone is entitled to an opinion, and both Slyfox and TIMU, defend their opinions very eloquently.
And if intelligent people with letters after their name tell us that their opinion is worth more than others with a lesser education, of course we must bow to them
I appreciate your ability to recognize that each of us is entitled to our opinion. That's big of you and a wonderful start. And, by the way, there are no letters behind my name as of yet. I am working toward that but it's in the far distant future. Regardless of letters, I amnot looking to be bowed to. I merely believe that one should try to be objective, reasonable, and logical in looking at ANY subject and try to avoid being inflamatory and emotional.
Clearly, we BOTH have a vested interest in the subject or we would not be commenting on this thread with such passion. As for the rest of your statement (and many others you have made prior to this) I would like to make an appeal to reason. Your argumentation, passionate though it may be, is not logically sound. In addition you seem to feel the need to resort to inflamatory logical fallacies to prove your point, not to sound reasoning. I can specify where and when you have done this if you like, and explain why your statements are unsound. That would take a lot of writing, though, and I don't want to bore the readers of the thread.
I certainly is a crime... but only in some places and the details of the law vary from place to place. If it is a crime where you are, don't engage in it unless you are willing to accept the potential consequences. Bt the way, at one point, it was illegal for women to vote. Did that make the women of the time who wanted to vote morally abhorant? Sometimes laws are woefully out of date and need changed.
In conclusion (to this particular post), I'd like to appeal to your subjectivity and reason and ask you to be more objective and reasonable. I'm not asking you to adopt my point of view nor to practice anything that violates your ethical beliefs. I am merely stating and defending my belief that sex between two consenting adults, whatever their relation, provided that they are making an informed decision as to the pro's and con's of potential outcomes both physical and psychological is not morally wrong. The individuals involved need to make the decision as to whether or not it violates their respective ethics and go forward from there. It is not our place to judge.
For the record, I have never been involved in any type of incestual relationship personally. It does, however, make for some really hot fantasies!
'nuff said
its always funny to see how all of use say a statement about what we believe. Then someone else jumps in saying their opinion that is in complete disagreement with the original. Then the first person comes back with a rebuttal and so on and so forth. And its funny, because you're proving nothing and in the end, trying to force YOUR opinion onto the other person rather than simply defending your position like the person posted above stated. Its funny, you say, 'oh, this is just my opinion.' but in reality, its 'oh, this is how it is, just accept my way of thinking.' It doesn't work that way and in the end neither side proves anything to their case and merely stands by their stubborn views and forces it on others. ITs funny to see.
Lustyoo
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Fascinating
I've just read this thread from start to finish and I felt the need to duck and cover on almost every page, but it kept me entertained. I congratualte all who have expressed their opinions openly and freely. There have been a few retorts that made more personal attacks which did rather ruin the flow and harmony of the thread but in all it's fasinating thread.
Now for my opinion on the matter. I feel that incest between two (or more ) consenting people is fine. If the people understand and accept what they are doing, what is the harm??? Lusting after and having sexual relations in a family is bound to be one of the most natural instincts and experiences around. Who else but your family can you trust, appreciate and respsect more than family. For those that think it is wrong (and I accept your opinon on this) one of the main reasons your so against incest is that you've been taught and programmed that incest is wrong.
I've just read this thread from start to finish and I felt the need to duck and cover on almost every page, but it kept me entertained. I congratualte all who have expressed their opinions openly and freely. There have been a few retorts that made more personal attacks which did rather ruin the flow and harmony of the thread but in all it's fasinating thread.
Now for my opinion on the matter. I feel that incest between two (or more ) consenting people is fine. If the people understand and accept what they are doing, what is the harm??? Lusting after and having sexual relations in a family is bound to be one of the most natural instincts and experiences around. Who else but your family can you trust, appreciate and respsect more than family. For those that think it is wrong (and I accept your opinon on this) one of the main reasons your so against incest is that you've been taught and programmed that incest is wrong.
G
Guest
Guest
The reason people think incest is wrong (per se) is evolutionary taboo. Genes encouraging repulsion from sexual relations with close relatives would be preferentially passed on over those that did not encourage such a taboo, because the carriers of the non-taboo genes would be more likely to die early, owing to genetically inherited diseases. Over millions of years this process issues in an inherited taboo against incest. Provided it doesn't hurt anybody it isn't wrong. And all this stuff about it being "your blood" etc., is just irrelevant quasi-religious posturing.
SlyFox
Literotica Guru
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- 747
Perfect Example
Yeah, Zidane, and you're a prefect example of this, imho
SlyFox
Zidane said:Its funny, you say, 'oh, this is just my opinion.' but in reality, its 'oh, this is how it is, just accept my way of thinking.' It doesn't work that way and in the end neither side proves anything to their case and merely stands by their stubborn views and forces it on others. ITs funny to see.
Yeah, Zidane, and you're a prefect example of this, imho
SlyFox
SlyFox
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Missed the point - again
Zidane, again you have missed the point of every argument I have made on this and every other thread devoted to this topic. I do NOT demand or advocate that anyone accept my position on the question of "morality or immorality" of the practice of sexual relations between consenting adults - whatever their family relationship may be.
My argument is, and always has been that it is nobody else's business to tell the participants that they are wrong, evil, immoral, sinners or whatever. I do not seek to impose my belief's on others - I do insist, however, on the right to hold and express those beliefs and opinions in this or any other forum. I read a great many things on these boards that I am adamantly opposed to - for ME and me alone. Fetishes like bondage/discipline, sado-masochism, "water sports", and beastiality leave me absolutely cold and uninterested. But I certainly do not disparage anyone else who DO enjoy those activities - as long as they don't try to foist them onto me.
My arguments have consistently been for the rights of the individual to engage in whatever private activities they find enjoyable as long as they do not hurt or impinge on the rights of any other individual. And they have the absolute right to express those opinions and beliefs as they choose. But no one has the right to forcibly impose, whether through "laws", religious tenents or cultural conditioning, their concepts on any one else.
Now, is that expressed clearly enough? Or do I need to put it in simplier language?
SlyFox
(Oh, btw, I got your e-mail and pm and will be responding privately shortly...)
Zidane said:as are you, you keep repeating the same basic principles behind your argument, you trying to prove you're right? BTW, we need to have a little private chat, you and me on email. >
Zidane, again you have missed the point of every argument I have made on this and every other thread devoted to this topic. I do NOT demand or advocate that anyone accept my position on the question of "morality or immorality" of the practice of sexual relations between consenting adults - whatever their family relationship may be.
My argument is, and always has been that it is nobody else's business to tell the participants that they are wrong, evil, immoral, sinners or whatever. I do not seek to impose my belief's on others - I do insist, however, on the right to hold and express those beliefs and opinions in this or any other forum. I read a great many things on these boards that I am adamantly opposed to - for ME and me alone. Fetishes like bondage/discipline, sado-masochism, "water sports", and beastiality leave me absolutely cold and uninterested. But I certainly do not disparage anyone else who DO enjoy those activities - as long as they don't try to foist them onto me.
My arguments have consistently been for the rights of the individual to engage in whatever private activities they find enjoyable as long as they do not hurt or impinge on the rights of any other individual. And they have the absolute right to express those opinions and beliefs as they choose. But no one has the right to forcibly impose, whether through "laws", religious tenents or cultural conditioning, their concepts on any one else.
Now, is that expressed clearly enough? Or do I need to put it in simplier language?
SlyFox
(Oh, btw, I got your e-mail and pm and will be responding privately shortly...)
SlyFox
Literotica Guru
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- 747
Child Sexual Abuse
There was a fascinating and horrifying special on MSNBC last night dealing with this exact topic and it was presented in a remarkably (for mainstream TV) explicit and graffic detail. It was the story of a mother and step-father who sexually assaulted the woman's young daughter for years, from the time she was only 7 years old until she finally reported her parents to the authorities and they were arrested and convicted of the sexual abuse of a child and sentenced to long (but not long enough, imo) prison terms. The step-father was an ex-con and a thoroughly dispicable low life who mistreated and abused his wife as well as the young girl.
But the mother was even more pitiful (that is way too mild a description, though) than the creep she married and then aided in his (and her) rape and torture of the child. In my opinion, this "mother" was even more evil than Andrea Yates. As least the Yates children were free of the lifetime of misery this poor girl will have to contend with.
I freely admit that I am a staunch adovcate of the right of consenting adults to engage freely in "intra-family" sexual relations if that is what they desire. I also see nothing inherently wrong with children of similar ages and/or maturity engaging in harmless sexual activities such as "I'll show you mine...", playing "doctor/nurse" or "mommy/daddy" games.
Having said that, I am adamantly opposed to and condemn "child pornography" and sexual abuse in any form, no matter what the relationship between perpertrator and victim happens to be. It is especially reprehensible when the "predator" is the person or person(s) who are legally and morally responsible for the protection and nurturing of their offspring and then so callously and blatently violate that sacret trust - whether through physical, mental, emotional and/or sexual abuse. This is just plain intolerable in any society or culture.
On the other hand, providing one's children with comprehensive and even explict sex education at appropriate ages within a loving and protective environment may be far more beneficial than detremental to that child when and if it helps foster and contribute to a healthy, enjoyable and guilt free sexuality for the child.
SlyFox
There was a fascinating and horrifying special on MSNBC last night dealing with this exact topic and it was presented in a remarkably (for mainstream TV) explicit and graffic detail. It was the story of a mother and step-father who sexually assaulted the woman's young daughter for years, from the time she was only 7 years old until she finally reported her parents to the authorities and they were arrested and convicted of the sexual abuse of a child and sentenced to long (but not long enough, imo) prison terms. The step-father was an ex-con and a thoroughly dispicable low life who mistreated and abused his wife as well as the young girl.
But the mother was even more pitiful (that is way too mild a description, though) than the creep she married and then aided in his (and her) rape and torture of the child. In my opinion, this "mother" was even more evil than Andrea Yates. As least the Yates children were free of the lifetime of misery this poor girl will have to contend with.
I freely admit that I am a staunch adovcate of the right of consenting adults to engage freely in "intra-family" sexual relations if that is what they desire. I also see nothing inherently wrong with children of similar ages and/or maturity engaging in harmless sexual activities such as "I'll show you mine...", playing "doctor/nurse" or "mommy/daddy" games.
Having said that, I am adamantly opposed to and condemn "child pornography" and sexual abuse in any form, no matter what the relationship between perpertrator and victim happens to be. It is especially reprehensible when the "predator" is the person or person(s) who are legally and morally responsible for the protection and nurturing of their offspring and then so callously and blatently violate that sacret trust - whether through physical, mental, emotional and/or sexual abuse. This is just plain intolerable in any society or culture.
On the other hand, providing one's children with comprehensive and even explict sex education at appropriate ages within a loving and protective environment may be far more beneficial than detremental to that child when and if it helps foster and contribute to a healthy, enjoyable and guilt free sexuality for the child.
SlyFox
bigleonardo
Really Really Experienced
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- Jan 11, 2002
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- 338
Incest +
I don't think anyone here suggested 'inbreeding' and I also have not seen anyone say anything about underage relations.
But yes we all do have a right to disagree....
I have found and I hope you don't think I am generalizing this to be of all people....that most of the people involved in incest, are from the UK and Australia, Please don't come down on me, but if you check ICQ's list....the majority of people are truly from those two countries.....
What is my point, is that this is something that occurs all over not only here in the good old US. So many things that one might consider pervasive are fully accepted by others as being normal.
Who is right who is wrong, I believe no one....if it suits the people involved nothing is wrong....if someone is being forced, then that is wrong
Big L.
Jacqui said:Thank you for your full and frank reply, I guess we have to agree to differ. I suppose people like you could even make paedophilia sound like it was intended because thats the way of your arguement. Will that be referred to as bullshit also? Can you not see that there is a damage that is caused by a sexual relationship that has no right in common decency and society. There is also an increase in genetic defects attached to "inbreeding" or doesnt that matter either.
I don't think anyone here suggested 'inbreeding' and I also have not seen anyone say anything about underage relations.
But yes we all do have a right to disagree....
I have found and I hope you don't think I am generalizing this to be of all people....that most of the people involved in incest, are from the UK and Australia, Please don't come down on me, but if you check ICQ's list....the majority of people are truly from those two countries.....
What is my point, is that this is something that occurs all over not only here in the good old US. So many things that one might consider pervasive are fully accepted by others as being normal.
Who is right who is wrong, I believe no one....if it suits the people involved nothing is wrong....if someone is being forced, then that is wrong
Big L.
bigleonardo
Really Really Experienced
- Joined
- Jan 11, 2002
- Posts
- 338
I would find it fascinating
To find out Jacqui's age, marital status, and basically a description of her sexual interests....
Most of us here do post either fantasy or realities that have happend in our lives.
She is extremely good at arguing, this issue, but I think she probably has hang ups about many other issues sexually.
It's none of my business, but she does go on and on....she could be a survior of abuse, rape, incest. Then the passion would be quite understood
Zidane has posted his experiences....and was quite honest about them...we knew more about who he was, his experience. which I give him a lot of credit for....
We know nothing of Jacqui, except her constant tirade about how it is all wrong etc, etc. etc.
Does she have a book on acceptable sexual practices.
Or does she look upon sex as the Roman Catcholics do and the Orthodox Jewish People do, as only a way to reproduce with no pleasure intended for either the male or female.
In the Orthodox Jewish religion....A sheet is placed between the man and the woman, there is a whole in it for the penus, so he can get to his wife's vagina....other parts of the body are not to touch...now to me that is sick....Hmm weren't adam and eve naked and then they had two kids, seems like those two kids had to fuck to keep the population growing....isn't that incest right there in Genesis.
Wow what brilliant insight Big L.
To find out Jacqui's age, marital status, and basically a description of her sexual interests....
Most of us here do post either fantasy or realities that have happend in our lives.
She is extremely good at arguing, this issue, but I think she probably has hang ups about many other issues sexually.
It's none of my business, but she does go on and on....she could be a survior of abuse, rape, incest. Then the passion would be quite understood
Zidane has posted his experiences....and was quite honest about them...we knew more about who he was, his experience. which I give him a lot of credit for....
We know nothing of Jacqui, except her constant tirade about how it is all wrong etc, etc. etc.
Does she have a book on acceptable sexual practices.
Or does she look upon sex as the Roman Catcholics do and the Orthodox Jewish People do, as only a way to reproduce with no pleasure intended for either the male or female.
In the Orthodox Jewish religion....A sheet is placed between the man and the woman, there is a whole in it for the penus, so he can get to his wife's vagina....other parts of the body are not to touch...now to me that is sick....Hmm weren't adam and eve naked and then they had two kids, seems like those two kids had to fuck to keep the population growing....isn't that incest right there in Genesis.
Wow what brilliant insight Big L.
SlyFox
Literotica Guru
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- 747
Re: I would find it fascinating
Hey "BigL" did you mean that to be "SlyFox's" experiences? To my knowledge Zidane hasn't had any experiences to speak of. At least that's what he complains about a lot. (Just kidding you, Zidane ) 'Course, I even get us confused at times 
SlyFox
bigleonardo said:
Hey "BigL" did you mean that to be "SlyFox's" experiences? To my knowledge Zidane hasn't had any experiences to speak of. At least that's what he complains about a lot. (Just kidding you, Zidane
) 'Course, I even get us confused at times SlyFox
brianelane
Experienced
- Joined
- Jul 26, 2001
- Posts
- 57
I am not a religous fanatic either. But just stop and think did Adam and Eve commit incest. Didn't eve come from Adam's rib and if she did. "Wasn't it God's choice.
I rest my case
I rest my case
