Kellyanne Conway, to reporter: "What's your ethnicity?"

wings is a squaw!

(that explains a lot.)

The halo is a give away.

lovetoread said:

i find it irritating when people think that they know where you are from just from how you look

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Ever hear this guy talk?

Wings said:

I didn’t address Que because he’s not worth my time. I addressed you and the words you presented as facts. If you knew that most natives didn’t have documentation then I felt you wouldn’t have used EW as an example. You talk a lot about being other due to your appearance and I feel like you tend to present your experiences as universal. They’re not. That is what I was saying. Believing much here is a stretch. When people like to bring up their tokens I presume they are actually talking about Chuck E Cheese.

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It's a stretch to say 'most' natives.

And 'Native' is kind of unique in that it's not just a race, it's also a legal status. 'Most' folks were tracked pretty religiously, because of the numerous atrocities you mentioned. They wanted to know who was in those Americanization schools and internment camps and whatnot. The government watched folks like hawks. It's more rare to not have documentation than it is to have it. They're not like slave records where individual people had them, these are government men watching you. It's not paranoia when they're actually out to get you. Even the "family placement" thing wasn't generally undocumented, the records were just sealed. That's still a thing, by the way, right now. They never stopped doing that. They will still take your kids and you won't be able to find them.

But the government knows where they are. They are documented and they can request that stuff once they hit 18, the family just can't.

This is a situation where people were essentially tagged like animals. It's created generational trauma in the form of paranoia they were watched so closely. It's in no way "most" natives. If you've got a legit heritage claim and you don't have those records that's really, really rare. It's your experiences that aren't universal here.

Warren IS a good example. There are so many white folks trying to claim native status there's a name for it, "Cherokee Grandmother Syndrome". And because this kind of shit was documented so well, the vast majority of folks who are native have that documentation. And because it's so rare for people not to have that, native folk do tend to make fun of people who claim it with no proof, because it's super common for folks to do that, and super rare not to have the proof. That's a thing. And it's weird to me that you don't know that's a thing if you've actually done research.

CandiCame said:

It's a stretch to say 'most' natives.

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Dud(e), entire tribes were wiped out. The Cavalry didn't keep records because they weren't considered human. It was no more than slaughtering wild dogs. There were bounties on scalps, paid by the US or previous government bodies.

Note the sections on The Colonial Wars and the Continued Indian Wars.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scalping#Colonial_wars

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scalping#Continued_Indian_Wars

1. It’s NOT a stretch to say most.
2. I am well aware of how native adoptions do and do not work, at least in Minnesota, the Dakotas, and Oklahoma/Arkansas
3. I am from a well-documented tribe however the years and years I’ve spent working with the assistant secretary of IA pretty much means there is absolutely zero chance of you knowing how the affairs of native tribes works better than me. I built a life on knowing how to work within the Interior and I’m not going to address this any more. You’re welcome to continue to write as many words as you want to.

TAKE THAT, candibitch!

wings is so far above you that it's not worth her precious time to discuss the issue further.

Shut the fuck up and wither away, sub!

Candi is never boring. Lance is always boring. Go figure.

Whatever you say, tonta.

(pussy edit, btw.)

Wings said:

Imagine instead if you had asked him how he got to be so wise or what drove his outlook on life and left his skin color completely out of it?

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That's ridiculous.
As a foreigner you get asked all the time, and I ask all the time, and most of the time it's a positive thing. People are simply curious.

But indeed, I never ask someone who appears Indian but talks with a perfect accent - obviously born in Australia. THAT can have racist connotations.
Unless it's appropriate to the context.

InsightRiot said:

I met a brown skin guy recently. He was saying some really beautiful, spiritual shit.

I asked him if he was Indian (dot, not feather). He smiled real big and said "yes". Then I asked him if he was raised Hindu, and he confirmed he was, but is now a Christian. I knew that loving and understanding outlook he had came from a Hindu mind.

We had a wonderful conversation, and I'm so glad I judged him by his skin color.

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Yes, I would have asked too. In the right context it actually breaks barriers.
In other contexts or out of the blue - it is racist.

suurfer said:

That's ridiculous.
As a foreigner you get asked all the time, and I ask all the time, and most of the time it's a positive thing. People are simply curious.

But indeed, I never ask someone who appears Indian but talks with a perfect accent - obviously born in Australia. THAT can have racist connotations.
Unless it's appropriate to the context.

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So you claimed what I said was ridiculous but then contradicted yourself in the same post? It’s not about noticing someone has an accent but instead not being a garbage person.

Now tell her how much higher you consider yourself over her that you just can't waste any time discussing it with her anymore.

You and butters should hold a competition to see who has that arrogant 4x4 shoved further up your butts sideways.

Wings said:

Imagine instead if you had asked him how he got to be so wise or what drove his outlook on life and left his skin color completely out of it?

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Yeah, good point.
Unfortunately I'm not the most charismatic person. I'm awkward. Too honest.
I wouldn't want to be charming tho, most of those people are con-artists or NPCs.

Anyways, it's a good thing words aren't violence.

Wings said:

So you claimed what I said was ridiculous but then contradicted yourself in the same post? It’s not about noticing someone has an accent but instead not being a garbage person.

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Yes, I should have been less aggressive and more clear.

When it comes to local minority groups (native or 2nd 3rd gen. immigrants)
I think that, more often than not, the question has racist connotations.
Why would their ancestry matter? They were born Australians or Americans. Like you said.

I only ask it when it's relevant to the discussion, like when they discuss specific spiritual beliefs (see InsightRiot) or experiences of discrimination.

When it comes to immigrants of color:
Different story. Ethnicity does matter, it influences their outlook.
I often ask immigrants of all ethnicities that question, and it's generally well received. Especially since I'm one myself.


But I get really frustrated when the rare person misinterprets my intent and clams up and looks grudgingly at me. Like this Indian driver the other day.
The onus is on Them for assuming the worst of me - not on me for asking.
There's an element of aggression and malevolence in such a response. That, or they dealt with an inordinate amount of discrimination.

Identity matters. Ethnicity shouldn’t. My gentle point was that there are alternate ways to ask intrusive questions.

Wings said:

Identity matters. Ethnicity shouldn’t. My gentle point was that there are alternate ways to ask intrusive questions.

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Schmucks aren't about hearing this when there's internet club clout from yap to be made, but thanks for the gospel.

suurfer said:

Jesus Christ.

Do you really have to insert yourself into a perfectly appropriate exchange of ideas between adults,
with your eternal victim bullshit?

I was actually on the same page with her.

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Narration: He wasn't.

Was my response directed at you? No, it wasn't. You could've just replied to Wings instead of getting fake-assed froggy at me.

Your "eternal victim" count has how many alt resurrections, now? Weren't you supposed to take a goodbye bow for mental health reasons once you got shanked by Laurel for the nth time? Go back to giving kneepad blowjobs to the shitstains here that stimulate your sociopathy, cipher cheerleader boi.

The hostile reaction of that Indian guy the other day was a peculiar reaction that I noticed among the rare immigrants.

First of all, he knew that I must have dealt with xenophobia myself, even if not as much as he did, so why those haughty looks and passive aggressive inuendo that I'm a racist?
Instead of taking it as it was: an awkward, intrussive question, and my inability to read cues that he either wasn't in the mood, or he thought himself above me or whatever.

Most immigrants bond due to their common experiences (uprootedness or xenophobia).
But not all of them. There are some who take the worst from that experience. I sometimes found that this tiny subgroup are more unkind or stand-offish towards their own kind, than towards locals.



I'm speaking because the topic fascinates me, being a former majority member turned minority myself. I came across all sorts of unexplained dynamics between people.

IrezumiKiss said:

Narration: He wasn't.

Was my response directed at you? No, it wasn't. You could've just replied to Wings instead of getting fake-assed froggy at me.

Your "eternal victim" count has how many alt resurrections, now? Weren't you supposed to take a goodbye bow for mental health reasons once you got shanked by Laurel for the nth time? Go back to giving kneepad blowjobs to the shitstains here that stimulate your sociopathy, cipher cheerleader boi.

/media.giphy.com/media/l0HlMSVVw9zqmClLq/giphy.g/IMG]

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Your post followed mine so I naturally assumed. Sorry if I was a tad paranoid.

Really, Zumi, you and I profoundly dislike each other. That's clear.
But aren't you fed up too, with this shit?
Me having to constantly defend myself that I'm not "a racist shitstain", you - of my "Zumi is a moron and an eternal victim."
Let's just drop it instead of all this pa bullshit.

OldJourno said:

I missed the racist part. Maybe you can help me out on that.

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replying to a reporter's question about Trump's racist comments with, "What's your ethnicity?" is racist or xenophobic. I don't know which because he didn't answer so she couldn't "prove" her supposed point.
Her question had as much relevance to the topic as asking him what he's dog's name is.

Wings said:

Identity matters. Ethnicity shouldn’t. My gentle point was that there are alternate ways to ask intrusive questions.

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Go weave a dream catch and shut up.

Wings said:

Identity matters. Ethnicity shouldn’t. My gentle point was that there are alternate ways to ask intrusive questions.

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Identity and ethnicity can be closely aligned or not. Querys about either might be intrusive, or not.

If a question is actually intrusive, I don't see what difference it could possibly make to approach an "itrusive" aea from a different direction.

I'm not quite sure where you're going with this. Do you just mean that we all have curiosity about others and there are tactful ways to assuage our curiosities without making people feel "other than?"

Contact and how something comes up matters. I was talking to a black guy last night and somehow in the course of conversation he mentioned that he had recently moved here from Utah. I cracked you know I was just thinking Utah because you reminded me of those Mormon missionaries. Now, I have no idea what the demographics are of Utah versus Arizona but my general sense is he was probably a bit of an anomaly in Utah because I think the minority population is rather low. As it turns out he isn't Mormon which was sort of my guess and that was probably a reasonable bet. If he turned out to be Mormon that would have been a pretty interesting conversation. The only reason I made the Mormon crack about Utah was because my general guess and it was a guess was that he wasn't based on nothing more than his race. In that situation whether he was or wasn't Mormon it's a reasonably funny comment and it's more about the Mormons than being black so that's not something that is likely to cause offense. On the other hand if I was talking to someone from Utah who was lily white and looked pretty Mormon to me I probably wouldn't make that crack because if they are Mormon they're probably tired of it and if they're not Mormon they're tired of everyone thinking they're Mormon. That's what I mean by context matters.

It matters if you have an actual interest in them and some sort of foundation or reason for having a conversation. It's absolutely no different from conversations that I routinely have with white people that Devin areas that could be intrusive if they are completely out-of-the-blue such as questions about their family their job, their musical taste or whatever. It comes down to who are you where are you from and what are you about. None of those questions or even the least bit intrusive when it's one white person talking to another white person. The only reason that it becomes something of a conversation about race or ethnicity is if their race or ethnicity has something to do with those particular questions. If who they are for example of black guy growing up in lillywhite Utah had some impact it on how they see the world that something that they are likely to bring up and not something that I'm going to know to ask
One of my good friends picked up a girlfriend when he was attending Texas A&M for his Masters in physics. He came home to his physicist father and two sets of german-american grandparents to meet the family. The woman was from mainland China. One of his German grandfathers looked at her and said, "You have a very interesting look about you do you know if you have any Chinese people in your background. She just blanched and looked at him and said yes, all of them. That was tactless and intrusive. I also can't imagine how you can have this gathering with the girlfriend and no one at the table has any idea that the chick you're dating is Chinese. I don't mean ethnically Chinese I mean nationally Chinese; a Chinese citizen. From actual China.

I'm sure that it is annoying when somebody asks Point Blank where you come from or what you are or some other offense of question when they don't know anything about you. But I'm also sure that you've clearly had conversations with people about your ancestry or ethnicity or however you look at it because it came up at some point in conversation about something.

I just don't shy away from going there if something is relevant and it happens to be about race or ethnicity. The native girl that candy thinks I should have asked for her tribal membership number brought it up. I wouldn't have necessarily guest that she was native or really been particularly curious because there's such a wide spectrum in the southwest of people with Native ancestry with varied amounts of Spanish from The Conquistadors. There are lots of people in Mexico who from their General appearance lean more indigenous than they lean Spanish. It's such a Continuum that it's not a question you're ever going to ask because where do you draw the line where you would assume that they are or are not self identifying as native or V from Mexico indigenous. When she brought it up it seemed to me to be a complete non sequitur I was talking about some Canadian Travellers that I had been associating with and she's that said it sounded pretty fun and interesting and said something about Natives and Canadians. I didn't get the connection because I don't see where there would be one other than the fact that there are First Nations tribes in Canada obviously so that's where I was thinking she was going with it. I thought that perhaps she was First Nations Upper Midwest Canada that sort of thing but no she's from California so I don't still get the connection between Natives and Canada in her mind but it exists and it came up because she brought it up.

Because I worked with lots of Apaches and navajos and it's more a matter of speech than appearance I generally have an idea which is which but I never suppose because frankly they're not really that different ethnically although culturally they certainly are.

Somebody mentions an ethnic holiday or some sort of ethnic food that seems to be relevant to ethnicity that they mention their mom made or something that's where you're having a conversation about culture and ethnicity.