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Regrettable Sex

CarnivalBarker said:
I acknowledge my own role in getting in the situation, thanks. ... I'm sorry you don't approve. I don't ask you to. But what this guy did, even if it was not rape (and certainly if it was rape) was NOT okay. I deserved better. But yet there I was, left soiled and feeling like a gutter slut. No girl should ever feel like that. I get it that some of it is my fault and I of course regret it now. But it was certainly not what I wanted.
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Oh honey, it is NOT your fault. And the people who say you "got what you wanted" don't seem to get the difference between fantasy and reality. You can fantasize about "rape" and "non-consensual" and heck, even worse like extreme breath play or even snuff and that doesn't make any of it okay if happens without your CONSENT. The hallmarks of a safe situation are safe, sane, and consensual. What happened wasn't any of those things. If someone fantasizes about being gagged and whipped during CONSENSUAL sex, is it okay if someone grabs them off the street and does those things to them? Are they supposed to get off on it? No. Absolutely not. Having rough sex fantasies or BDSM yearnings or a penchant for older guys--none of it means you deserved to be taken advantage of. And going with someone with the intent of having sex doesn't make it your fault either. Every Friday night millions of guys go out with the same intent--no one would say they "deserve" to have bad consequences just because they went out to get laid. This is NOT your fault. Whether you press charges or not or whatever you choose to call it in your head, it was NOT your fault.
 
CarnivalBarker said:
I had some pretty regrettable sex a couple weeks ago, and honestly I am having a huge problem wrapping my brain around it. I normally like some pretty rough and abusive sex, but this....ugh. I'm just not sure. I had been sort of....worked up....for a few days and went to a music festival. I met this guy who was a lot older.....47-48. I didn't know it at the time, but he has a daughter that is 17 and one that is 20. I'm 24 and could pass maybe for younger. Anyway, he's a musician and we were standing around and chatting about the bands and at one point we were drinking, dancing, and making out. He goes, "My house is just off campus. We can hear the music and drink on the porch." I'm not stupid....he wanted to fuck. I wanted to fuck. So I kiss him, grab his hand, and we walk maybe a mile to his house. We go inside and I let him kiss me and this time, I take his arms and wrap them lower around my hips and place his hands squarely on my ass. We make out some more and everything's fine. I go, "Let's go to your room." So we do. We get going and sex is sex....it's good, but nothing unusual. At some point, though, he pulls out, flips me on my stomach, and I feel his hand square between my shoulders. I loved that. Then he was inside me. I loved that.

Then, BAM. He shoves his fingers fast and hard in my ass and I sort of buck to pull away, but with his hand on my shoulders, I'm not moving. I tell him stop, I'm not ready. He doesn't stop. So he fucks me a bit, and his fingers hurt....not excruciating....I really just was not ready for them. So he finishes (inside me - condoms weren't ever an issue, so that....but eh....I can live with that I guess...I don't like using them either). So we sort of collapse and make out a bit. No more pain, and the actual sex was ok, so fine. After we sort of rest, he pulls out something and snorts it - I think it was coke. I declined. We chatted and I'm getting aroused again after a while. He goes, "You remind me of my daughters.......my daughters' friend!" It was weird....like he said daughter, then said daughter's friend. I sort of chilled and rolled over away from him. A few moments later, he's kissing my neck and groping me. I'm sort of warming to him, he's rubbing me down below and it feels good.

Then, BAM. He's trying to fuck me in the ass. FUCK. I'm usually fine....just ask, dude. But he keeps sneak attacking me and it fucking hurts! So I tell him it hurts. He backs off. But he. Is. Pissed.

"Then I'm going to fuck you HARD," he said. Normally, yes! Awesome. But he's creeped me out and hurt me once, so I'm not thrilled. But I don't like the position I'm at and I just sort of nod and roll on my back, mainly hoping he will just fuck me and stay away from my ass. So he sort of slaps my thighs open (it stings) and he slams his full length inside me and starts going HARD, just like he said. He starts saying, "You like this? All you little sluts want to come around and spend my money and you think I won't do anything about it?" That was like a punch in the gut because it REALLY felt like he was talking about or thinking about his daughter and her friends. He fucked me hard for what seemed like forever, and I just sort of went with the positions he wanted, because he was freaking me out. At some point, he started slapping my side and once slapped my face. I was on my back, eyes closed, sort of just taking it and BAM.....he slaps me!!! I reached down and clawed his balls and said, "Don't ever fucking slap me." So what does he do? He smirks, pulls my hand off him, and proceeds to fuck me harder, not slapping my face, but slapping the shit out of my side and my thighs. I had a huge bruise on my side the next day. He finished inside me once more.

So when he's done, I go to the bathroom and try to clean up, but I left my fucking clothes in the room. Shit. He knocks on the door and is like, "Hey, baby....was I too rough......I thought you liked it that way. I'm sorry if I hurt you." So he's being kind of sweet. He convinces me to come out and sort of curls me up and we lay down. He's stroking me and starts kissing me sweetly. I'm anxious about trying to get away, and also sort of warming up to him. He starts fingering me, so I sort of get ready and think, "Ok, this time he'll be sweet and it will be okay."

Nope. He starts fucking me slowly, and then faster...a good rhythm. I start to cum and sort of quiver. He hasn't finished. He leans over and kisses me. "I want to fuck your ass." NO. "Come on," he kisses me. I have nowhere to go. So he starts turning me over and I see what's going to happen. So what do I do? I ask if he has any lube and just roll over. He does, and he is actually pretty gentle. He gets me warmed up and I'm actually feeling good, but still anxious. He starts to mount me and as he does, he goes, "I've wanted your ass for so long."

Ummmm........I met you like 5 hours ago. For so long? I immediately get sick to my stomach. Once again, I think he's got his daughter on his mind. So he starts fucking me in the ass, tugging my hair. He never leans around to kiss me anymore, and his hands just grab my hips and he fucks me. It didn't hurt, but I just felt icky about it because of his comments and me putting 2 and 2 together that his daughter is only 4-5 years younger than me.

Anyway, he finished, and I just felt dirty and used. I got dressed and he called me a cab.....really??? We were a 15 minute walk away and now I get a cab? I was sore in some places and while the one time we fucked it was nice, I just felt gross and dirty about the rest.

Guys - your girl will do anything if she is with you, so long as you communicate with her and let her get there (wherever "there" is that you want to go). I know I will. But I sort of feel raped, but sort of not. And I sort of just feel like a dirty whore and like I didn't own my sexuality this time, which I always do. I'm struggling to get over this one. I don't ever want to see the guy again. And I don't ever want to put myself in that situation. Perhaps I just partied too much and got reckless, but I feel like I lost the right and ability to do that and have fun, if this is what happens.

Anyway, I just wanted to purge, hoping it will feel better to have it out. And if anyone else has a regrettable story, feel free to post or message me. I know it sucks. And I know it happens.

CB
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Kiddo...you were used and abused by a guy who is not a stand up guy and may be a genuine pervert. Sorry you have to deal with that. That really sucks!
 
Pink_Milkmaid said:
This is NOT your fault. Whether you press charges or not or whatever you choose to call it in your head, it was NOT your fault.
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I feel for the poster, but if I was a D.A. I wouldn't prosecute, or if I was a judge, I'd throw it out. It's a situation where the OP didn't leave the moment she felt uncomfortable and even, in her own words, was willing to continue. It was bad judgement and a bad choice that wasn't firmly stopped when opportunity came.

I've slept with a few girls I would never sleep with because I was intoxicated and these girls knew I had no interest in them, does that mean I was violated? Do I press charges? Those are learning experience from bad choices that took me a few times to learn, but that doesn't mean I call it criminal because now I regret my actions.

This a tough situation and aftermath and looking back the 'why didn't I' scenario can troubling to get over.

Hopefully talking about it has helped you.
 
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Yeah that guy was shady as hell. I'm sure him snorting up whatever that was had a lot to do with the crazy stuff he was doing and slipping up on his words. Just keep your distance from him and if you see him out in public, ignore him and stick with the buddy system.
 
Everyday_Man said:
I've slept with a few girls I would never sleep with because I was intoxicated and these girls knew I had no interest in them, does that mean I was violated? Do I press charges? Those are learning experience from bad choices that took me a few times to learn, but that doesn't mean I call it criminal because now I regret my actions.
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Okay, wow....this is the first comment that I truly want to object to. I had A drink and at all times I was well aware of what my feelings were, what I wanted, and what I didn't. The title here is "regrettable sex," but don't for a minute act like I just got drunk, had sex, then regretted it later, and thereby equate it to the situation you describe. This asshole slapped me in the face. HARD. And when I told him not to, he hit my body repeatedly such that it left multiple bruises and he didn't stop when my eyes were tearing up. And I get what you're saying about prosecuting.....I'm not intending to prosecute.....I KNOW I do not make a favorable, sympathetic victim in this case, and there's no other witnesses, no rape kit weeks later, and if asked to tell the truth, I'm going to have to go, "You know what, Judge....I generally like rough sex and enjoy being roughed up with guys I am into who I KNOW aren't going to hurt me." This wasn't that. And I don't confuse something that is able to be prosecuted (or not) with something being just not okay. ALL I was doing was trying to sort out the grungy feeling I have about myself and about how I was treated in what was probably the most upsetting night of sex I have had ever, NOT put anyone in jail, no matter how much maybe they deserve it. But I find that part of your post to be kind of heinous.
 
CarnivalBarker said:
Okay, wow....this is the first comment that I truly want to object to. I had A drink and at all times I was well aware of what my feelings were, what I wanted, and what I didn't. The title here is "regrettable sex," but don't for a minute act like I just got drunk, had sex, then regretted it later, and thereby equate it to the situation you describe.
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I never said you got drunk ... I said I got drunk and had sex I regretted and never would have had .... I was comparing two scenarios where looking back, different choices would have been made.

I was making a point that there is a difference between sexual assault and not leaving a situation when you could have and deciding it is sexual assault after the fact. Had you attempted to leave and he stopped you, then there is wondering about it, that is all.

I was also quoting and answering Pink Milkmaid on her thoughts of 'whether or not you decide to prosecute' ... I made no damning assumptions or judgments about you.
 
Everyday_Man said:
I was making a point that there is a difference between sexual assault and not leaving a situation when you could have and deciding it is sexual assault after the fact.
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But is there? Rest assured, I did not "decide" this was sexual assault after the fact. I have a VERY hard time reconciling just what, exactly, it WAS. There was one maybe thirty minute period, after the first time we had sex, where I probably could have and should have left. Yep...I get that. But from the time we began to have sex the second time, until he put me in a cab, I was basically beneath him while he was inside me and STRIKING me. So I did not feel it was very safe to try to leave, so I didn't. Again, I'm not deciding it was anything. But here's what I know.....I know that this guy did things that physically hurt me, and that even though I said no and expressed clearly that I did not want to do some things, he made me so afraid and to feel powerless such that I ended up doing them. And I was very well aware at the time, NOT afterward, but at the time, as he was grunting into my ear "God, you're a tight little bitch...I'm gonna wreck your body," while he JAMMED himself in a place I had not wanted him to at all.....I knew THEN that I didn't like the position I was in and I felt like dirt for getting myself there. Could I have left? Maybe. But the fact that I didn't or felt I couldn't doesn't mean this guy isn't a dirt bag with issues.
 
I'm totally lost here. I get that you didn't dig a lot of shit this dude was doing, but did you actually express that verbally, other than thinking, no?

Man or woman, you cram you fingers in my ass without discussing it and there will be fucking blood.
 
I told him no when he used his fingers. I told him no when he just started to try fucking me in the ass. That's when he slapped me, and I told him don't do that. That's when he started slapping my body. Since I told him no and he escalated, I didn't tell him no again. I decided I'd get out of there alive and just take it until I could. But you're right...it IS confusing. Not everything he did was horrible. And when we started, I was into him and it was nice. But it turned, mid-act.
 
CarnivalBarker said:
I told him no when he used his fingers. I told him no when he just started to try fucking me in the ass. That's when he slapped me, and I told him don't do that. That's when he started slapping my body. Since I told him no and he escalated, I didn't tell him no again. I decided I'd get out of there alive and just take it until I could. But you're right...it IS confusing. Not everything he did was horrible. And when we started, I was into him and it was nice. But it turned, mid-act.
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Yeah, that's a raw fucking deal. I'm not little and I've fought men my whole life but I get most women are not like that. With that said, I understand the feeling of being scared in a situation with a man I was sure would hurt me. It's a fucked up feeling and not an emotion or situation to be taken lightly.

You obviously know things you should have done differently. Sex aside, willingly going into a situation like this with a stranger, let alone, a man, was totally boneheaded. Sex should be consensual, and you should be able to fuck anyone you want, whenever you want, but there is an ugly truth to face; people fucking suck.

Never put yourself here again. You may not get the opportunity to retell your story.
 
Wow. Sorry for your experience. I've had pickups and I've had kinky one night stands, but every moment is consensual. What he did was wrong, but it probably won't be something that can be prosecuted. He went over a line, but a jury requires a high burden of proof.
 
CarnivalBarker said:
But is there? Rest assured, I did not "decide" this was sexual assault after the fact. I have a VERY hard time reconciling just what, exactly, it WAS. There was one maybe thirty minute period, after the first time we had sex, where I probably could have and should have left. Yep...I get that. But from the time we began to have sex the second time, until he put me in a cab, I was basically beneath him while he was inside me and STRIKING me. So I did not feel it was very safe to try to leave, so I didn't. Again, I'm not deciding it was anything. But here's what I know.....I know that this guy did things that physically hurt me, and that even though I said no and expressed clearly that I did not want to do some things, he made me so afraid and to feel powerless such that I ended up doing them. And I was very well aware at the time, NOT afterward, but at the time, as he was grunting into my ear "God, you're a tight little bitch...I'm gonna wreck your body," while he JAMMED himself in a place I had not wanted him to at all.....I knew THEN that I didn't like the position I was in and I felt like dirt for getting myself there. Could I have left? Maybe. But the fact that I didn't or felt I couldn't doesn't mean this guy isn't a dirt bag with issues.
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It's hard to do the right thing or smart thing in a sexual assault situation where a man who is twice your size and strength has you pinned down. It's not just a matter of of doing the right thing. The right thing might get you hurt worse or killed. I got raped by my ex, whom I never would have expected would have done something like that. I had to lie there and bear it until it was over. Fighting him and screaming didn't help. Do you think I reported it? That would have been a good one to sit through in the police station. You were raped? Any witnesses? Any marks? Did you tell him no? Screaming and fighting didn't work? Any history of domestic violence? Get out of here, you slut.
 
LadyVer said:
It's hard to do the right thing or smart thing in a sexual assault situation where a man who is twice your size and strength has you pinned down. It's not just a matter of of doing the right thing. The right thing might get you hurt worse or killed. I got raped by my ex, whom I never would have expected would have done something like that. I had to lie there and bear it until it was over. Fighting him and screaming didn't help. Do you think I reported it? That would have been a good one to sit through in the police station. You were raped? Any witnesses? Any marks? Did you tell him no? Screaming and fighting didn't work? Any history of domestic violence? Get out of here, you slut.
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THIS. All of it.
 
CarnivalBarker said:
THIS. All of it.
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Here is the problem I have with calling CarnivalBarker's situation rape ... several times it was stop and go, benefit of the doubt, when you told him no, he stopped, did something else or was pissed, but you stayed & continued and even thought, 'Okay this time he will be sweet and it will be okay.'

What the hell? The guy is a definite scumbag, but Carnival is all over the place in this situation.


LadyVer on the other hand should have gone to the police, humiliation aside.

This is a tough topic and I'm sure woman have a stronger opinion leaning toward the rape side of the story, and I'm not a lawyer, so I can't tell you how a prosecutor would actually define this (and I won't take the word of 'prosecutors' on the boards) ... I see this as a case of a person not being firm in their stance and letting another person getting away with degrading and humiliating a person with what they perceive as permission and what a defense lawyer could turn into a reasonable doubt scenario.

Based on Carnival's account, I can't call this rape and I'm not going to point out every obvious mistake made or thought. If I was on a jury, I'd feel bad for her, I would only feel disgusted by the guy, but I couldn't hand down a guilty verdict.

That's my last 2 cents on this subject.
 
Next time you give ANY 2 cents, I suggest you read what has been written, because you didn't in this case.

First, I have not said I think I was raped. I'm not sure I was. I just felt taken advantage of and hurt. And most of the people here have been supportive, but no one is really out there insisting anything other than this guy was a jerk.

Second, I have been the first and last to say that it could not be prosecuted easily at all, or that it should be. I have never asked if I should or shouldn't try to prosecute BECAUSE I haven't intended to.

Basically, you raced in here and go, "Look......you guys can call the sky green all you want....but it's clearly blue....all the evidence is that it's blue...so that's my last two cents." Um......nobody is really calling it green, dude. You're arguing with who exactly??? Point is, there's no reason to be a jerk about taking a position against which nobody is even arguing.

And finally, I WILL say that the measure of what IS and is NOT "rape," should not be defined as what act is met with a conviction. If someone torched a house, but was never charged, would it be any less thought of as "arson." If you took a gun to a bank and convinced people to give you money that wasn't yours, and a jury still acquitted you, had you not still committed "robbery."

All in all, be proud of your semantics and the fact that you declare yourself some superior victor over an argument that wasn't even being had. As I've said many times before, I was there....it happened to me...and you can call it whatever you want, but it was wrong and I don't feel good about it. And you can dispute none of that, thanks.
 
In FACT, you MIGHT notice the very first sentence of my first post where I refer to it as "some pretty regrettable sex." I speak English. Had I intended to claim I was raped, I would have said "I was raped." My intention has never been to accuse anyone of rape. I'm just working through a bad situation. But I'm rather offended by your vehement tone that I am somehow "wrong." Don't tell ME I'm wrong and argue against something I never said.
 
Okay, I don't think this discussion will serve me any longer. I'm not hurt or injured or even scarred. I still enjoy sex and will. I just feel mostly gross about the whole thing, and regretful, and perhaps I should. Time to be a big girl and move forward. I do appreciate all of your contributions....whether or not I agreed with all of you. This community is great, and I appreciate all of you.

CB
 
CB,
It sounds like the guy has a lot of problems. His violence toward women being only one of them. Also, his fascination with his daughter and playing out that fantasy with someone he just met.

I know it was a horrible experience for you and I am glad you got away from him. I was in law enforcement for over 30 years and locked up a lot of guys with similar problems. Be wary!
:rose:
 
CarnivalBarker said:
In FACT, you MIGHT notice the very first sentence of my first post where I refer to it as "some pretty regrettable sex." I speak English. Had I intended to claim I was raped, I would have said "I was raped." My intention has never been to accuse anyone of rape. I'm just working through a bad situation. But I'm rather offended by your vehement tone that I am somehow "wrong." Don't tell ME I'm wrong and argue against something I never said.
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I'm having a discussion with other members who stated the word rape. I speak plain English as well. This is a thread where you have talked about yourself and we are talking about you, I'm not making personal attacks or judgments on you. I was discussing the situation.
 
Looks like I'm very late to the thread but I just became aware of its existence a day ago so I'm going to give my view.

I read through the entire thread, and I'm not going to call anyone out by name but I saw a few comments along the lines of 'Were you drinking?' or 'Did you go there willingly?' or 'Did you say no in a clear way?' What always bothers me about comments like that is the implication which boils down to "Oh you were drinking? Well then it wasn't really rape" "Did you go to his place willingly? Wel its not really rape" "You didn't say 'no' the right way, it wasn't rape."

Just because someone makes a bad/reckless decision doesn't mean they deserved what happened to them. The bottom line is, when someone says NO, anything that happens afterwards IS sexual assault/rape, it doesn't matter what the situation or the circumstance was. It doesn't matter if she was drinking, doesn't matter if she willingly went to the guy's house. Just because a girl makes bad decisions doesn't mean its okay to rape someone.

I write non/con a lot, in fact it is something I pretty much exclusively write and I don't use the word 'rape' lightly.

I also read a few comments which suggested what Carnival should have done the very first moment things started to go wrong. The problem with that line of thinking is that there is a big difference between knowing what to do in a bad situation and actually being in the bad situation. Situations like Carnival wrote about can turn from bad to worse at the drop of a hat. Sometimes smart people make bad decisions, and once they realize what is really happening they're smart enough to know its not just about an assault but about survival.

This happened at a festival at night, she was most likely alone and went to the guy's house. She was out of the element with a guy who obviously had no problem being forceful with a woman when he had her alone. Despite the obvious size difference between the two, this situation could have very easily ended in Carnival not walking out of that house. I'm sure some people will think that I'm over dramatizing the situation, but the reality is things like these happen ALL the time, and just because a girl/woman goes to the guys house doesn't mean she deserves to be raped/murdered. I very much doubt once she was in the guy's house and said "Okay, I'm leaving" or "I'm calling the cops" That the guy would have simply said "Oh.. Okay, I'll just stop now and send you on your way." She clearly tried deescalate the situation a few times, and at each time it seemed clear that he wasn't going to stop and was into the rough stuff.

The guy could have very easily roughed her up, continued to rape her, and had she DONE the 'right thing' by calling the cops, going to the authorities, the guy in question could have very easily fallen back on some of the accusations made "Well she was drinking with me, she came to my place willingly, I didn't drag her here. She didn't try to stop me, if she didn't want it why did she just say no or leave?" It would come down to a 'he said/she said' situation and I'm sure Carnival knew that, so what she actually ended up doing in the situation was the smartest thing to do. Which is to say there really wasn't an escape, the best she could hope for was to minimize whatever damage he was going to do to her.

This is a very VERY huge topic and there is a lot more I could say about it, but I'll just conclude with this. Carnival I'm very sorry that you had this terrible experience. I'm glad that you're at least talking about this, even if its only online. Bottling shit up like this really isn't a good idea. If you feel the need you should probably try seeing a professional in the real world, someone who can help you deal with it properly and not in a way that is self destructive. I'm not saying that you'd do something self destructive but you've clearly been through a very traumatic experience, and sometimes the aftermath can be almost as bad as the event itself if not worse.
 
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Many of you have written to check on me, and I thank you so much. I have been seeing a counselor, and I did file a police report, if nothing else to put people on notice this is a bad guy. DHS even questioned his daughter about him, so maybe she's safer than before. I've had a pretty low key time since then - I havent wanted to go out much, but I have felt the need for guys in my life again, and I'm told that could be healthy or unhealthy - I obviously have psychosexual issues that I'm working with. I printed and showed some of my stories here for my therapist (fear not, I cut and pasted them without link to the site or any mentions of the authors, in case nobody wanted such things known), and he has been talking a lot with me about my fantasies and why I desire the things I do - it's not healthy to like being treated the way I do, both in and out of bed, but at the same time, some of it is just simple kink. We are trying to work through and draw lines to know what is and what isn't healthy. My daily life is pretty much the same....but sometimes I get very sad and feel dark. I have thought of killing myself, but it was fleeting and I got help. I'm not fixed, may never be, but it's better for me to indulge here than to put myself in that situation again, so I'm dipping my toes in here and there to write some. Thanks again for your well wishes - I am feeling a lot better than I was right after it happened. Like I said, fixing 24 years of garbage isn't easy, but getting back to where I was before this would be a great start.

CB
 
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