1+2 = 1 (and maybe some feedback!)

Hello Good People!

I promise I will not be posting every single chapter on here, but because the largest critique of my first chapter was that it was too short, I think this is appropriate. I published Chapter 2 today, and it seems like 1 and 2 should have just been combined to be one starting chapter. That said, I'd love for you to read both, and I do hope you enjoy!

https://www.literotica.com/s/pams-empty-nest-ch-02

And here is chapter one for reference. https://www.literotica.com/s/pams-empty-nest-ch-01

Thanks for the feedback the last time I posted in here!

Writing fan fiction is tough.

It seems like it should be easy. Your setting is there. All your characters are pre-created. The heavy lifting has been done for you. And that's the problem. How can you take so many things for granted and still have tension? How can you set up conflict?

GROWTH!!! It's here!! A story about self discovery and horizon broadening! It's wonderful, even if it's technically flawed and reads like it was most certainly written by a man.

At abstract levels, these first two chapters set up some really wonderful things. The idea of the story you're telling is good. Pam's Empty Nest works on multiple levels. Pam's work life has quieted down, and although calm is good you can tell she misses the excitement. Pam's home life has quieted down too, and the way both problems are potentially solved by the same solution is intriguing.

You misused the word 'ironic' (pet peeve). Your female characters are hyperaware of their own breasts and the breasts of other women (male incognito). Your dialog is a little stiff (plot serving). In other words, people don't talk like this but it's what has to happen to move the plot forward.

There's no humanity in this story. There is very little people being people. Nobody has a conversation that serves anything but the narrative of Pam's sexual awakening, which makes the whole thing very linear. Too linear. Too purposeful and dry. Pam doesn't read like a person, she reads like a character. Which she is. Which is why fan fiction can be tough.

so helpful

Thank you so much. This is incredibly helpful. It's a first try, and admittedly relies a lot on my limited exposure to this type of writing. Still learning!

You have a lot of potential. Keep writing.

The best tool I've found to learn is to read the writings of others critically, or not for content. How does someone else establish characters? How do they establish motivations? Do you think their choices were effective? Why or why not?

Processing questions like these will help you get a better grasp on your own style, and will help you grow into a great author.

I've no idea who Pam Beesly is, so the story doesn't make much sense to me. A load of characters are mentioned at the beginning, who then play no part in the story.

Ok, now I have looked her up. If it had been about Dawn, Tim and Gareth I might have got it

Another thing that doesn't make sense is that it is called Pam's empty nest, but at one point she has to put the kids to bed.

hadruprider said:

I've no idea who Pam Beesly is, so the story doesn't make much sense to me.

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I also had no idea who Pam Beesley is until I consulted Mr Google. I won’t be reading your story but only because I didn’t find The Office funny and I can’t stand Ricky Gervais. A man with an ego too big for his body and with all the talent of a KitKat without the taste.

Before you begin to read the story there is a big blank space. Could I suggest that in future that space could be filled with information to help the reader particularly as not everyone who is classed as a celebrity is actually one. Depends on each persons definition of celebrity.

Good luck with your writing and I hope all the criticism you receive is constructive.


4https://www.literotica.com/s/cherry-20

Emirus said:

I also had no idea who Pam Beesley is until I consulted Mr Google. I won’t be reading your story but only because I didn’t find The Office funny and I can’t stand Ricky Gervais. A man with an ego too big for his body and with all the talent of a KitKat without the taste.

Before you begin to read the story there is a big blank space. Could I suggest that in future that space could be filled with information to help the reader particularly as not everyone who is classed as a celebrity is actually one. Depends on each persons definition of celebrity.

Good luck with your writing and I hope all the criticism you receive is constructive.


4https://www.literotica.com/s/cherry-20

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First of all, if you're not going to be helpful then don't bother telling us about it. No one is interested in your ability to create absurd similes. If you want a reaction to your sense of humor, make your own thread.

Second, the spacing at the top of the story is a formatting error on the site's part. Any author who thinks enough of themselves to contribute to this forum should be able to recognize formatting errors that are beyond the author's ability to control. That would be like punishing another author because its raining outside your house.

Third of all, whether or not you recognize a character and whether or not you think a particular actor is a 'celebrity' does not change the fact that this is fan fiction and is thus properly categorized.

AwkwardMD said:

First of all, if you're not going to be helpful then don't bother telling us about it. No one is interested in your ability to create absurd similes. If you want a reaction to your sense of humor, make your own thread.

Second, the spacing at the top of the story is a formatting error on the site's part. Any author who thinks enough of themselves to contribute to this forum should be able to recognize formatting errors that are beyond the author's ability to control. That would be like punishing another author because its raining outside your house.

Third of all, whether or not you recognize a character and whether or not you think a particular actor is a 'celebrity' does not change the fact that this is fan fiction and is thus properly categorized.

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You are in a bad mood today. So in reply: (1) I don’t agree that I was unhelpful. (2). I wrote an explanatory piece at the beginning of my first story which was published recently so I assumed that the author had made an error in their submission and was giving my advice, which you seem to disagree with, as to how I think they could improve. Whether my opinion is thought to be right or wrong is up to the author. (3). Where did I say it was in the wrong category?

I’m sure that DanaGordon doesn’t need you, or anyone else, to answer on her behalf.

1) Unhelpful is not the same thing as not helpful. Which you weren't. Read the story AND contribute to the conversation, or don't.

2) "Write like I do"/"format like I do"/"pander to readers like I do" is a subjective decision. Don't present subjective suggestions as objective improvements.

3) Upon re-reading it, sure. I was wrong on this lne. I took it to mean that because you hate Ricky Gervais it doesn't belong in "Celebrity and Fan Fiction", but now I see that you were still presenting arguments for an author's note.

4) When new authors ask for advice, it can be daunting to differentiate between good and bad. For all she knows, there is an unwritten rule about fan fiction ALWAYS needing an author's note (there isn't) to explain the cast of characters or source material, and her failure to include one will cost her dearly (it won't).

5) Not liking Ricky Gervais is a shitty reason to ignore another authors work, so you aren't going to get a lot of pleasantries from me.

The space isn't a formatting error, per se. I'm using my cell and not a desktop computer, so I'm not sure if *every* device would show the space... Lit at least USED TO add their own disclaimer at the beginning of each Celeb story and added a link to "The People V Larry Flint" court case. Maybe it still shows up for desktop readers?

The space in question is below the site masthead and above the category map(Home > Celebrity etc etc > Story Title). Authors do not have control over the spacing in that area. Normally, that area is about the size of one carriage return, but this is 20 or 30.

It doesn't matter whether you call it a formatting error, or a glitch. What matters is that DanaGordon can't control that, and to ding her for it is disingenuous.

Yes, I'm aware that she has no control over it. As I said, I wonder if that's where the site put their own disclaimer for the category. I haven't looked at Celebs in years now.

Editor-added disclaimers appear in the same place as author notes. Laurel manually adds them to the very beginning of the story and italicises it. She's had to do that for a few of mine.

Fan fiction be a starting point, in that things like the characters' personalities and back stories, or aspects of the setting, can be changed considerably from the original. In fact this is often done in movie adaptations of novels or plays.

You might even say this was the case when The Office was relaunched for the American version.

You don't understand what I'm saying. Don't want to hijack this thread. I'm done.

OP, I apologize.

Thanks again

First, to AwkwardMD, thank you again for your helpful feedback. This has been a very enlightening couple of days. I've never posted any writing of any kind to any website before, and I gave it a try with this. A few things I learned:

1) Don't rush anything out. I had this idea that I would write some, then publish, then keep writing. I was silly enough to believe that I could take feedback on the fly, and then adjust accordingly. That's the wrong approach, I think.

2) Patience is good for a lot of reasons. My grammar and spelling were poor at times. Upon re-reading, I recognize that this is a process that takes far more revision than I put forth.

3) Hard criticism, even when it hurts, can be helpful.

I made a decision to "start from scratch," so to speak. I've outlined this story, and now I want to write and re-write and re-write until I have something that I can confidently put forward.

Again, this has been a learning experience. I'm glad about it. I've learned a lot already and I know I'm going to continue to learn. The good news is that I do love writing this, and my fire to make something that people enjoy has not burned out.

I'm still struggling with how I plan to introduce and give background on the characters. I think this story is probably just for people already familiar with the American version of The Office, and I'm fine with that. I think it will distract from the story and make it miserable for those who already know the characters.

OK. That's all for now. I'd love to continue chatting about all this. I requested that the two chapters I put up be pulled down. They are riddled with errors and I'm not terribly proud of them aside from the concept, which I am going to stick with. I've already started rewrites, and I'm happy with where I am so far.

Oh, and I don't know about that space between the top of the post and the text. Seems like it must be a formatting error that I could not have avoided. For those who read, thank you! For those who left feedback, thank you thank you! I promise to have something of higher quality for you (relatively) soon!

You may want to consider finding a writing buddy who can be a second set of eyes for you. It is shocking how many of your own mistakes you can miss because you know what you meant to write.

Either a beta reader or an editor can be worth their weight in gold.

Dana, don't be too hard on yourself! They are not "riddled with errors", just a few fairly trivial ones.
And you are never going to please grumpy old Brits like me who have never seen the US rip-off of The Office.

DanaGordon said:

Oh, and I don't know about that space between the top of the post and the text. Seems like it must be a formatting error that I could not have avoided. For those who read, thank you! For those who left feedback, thank you thank you! I promise to have something of higher quality for you (relatively) soon!

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I made the comment about the blank space at the beginning of each chapter because I thought you had deliberately left it blank for some reason. I’ve attached a link to the only story I’ve had published so far and as you will see there isn’t a blank space it’s an explanatory paragraph before the story heading.

I write using MS Word so perhaps that’s the reason. Before anyone jumps on me I haven’t posted the link to have anyone read the story only to look at the beginning.


https://www.literotica.com/s/cherry-20

AwkwardMD said:

You may want to consider finding a writing buddy who can be a second set of eyes for you. It is shocking how many of your own mistakes you can miss because you know what you meant to write.

Either a beta reader or an editor can be worth their weight in gold.

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I think its an excellent idea to have someone look over your work with an objective eye before it’s submitted and to my mind I would think an experienced writer of the same type of stories would be an obvious choice.

I have two more transexual stories on the go and when I’m ready to submit them I’ll certainly be asking an experienced writer of transexual stories with a proven track record if they’ll look over them before I submit them. That isn’t sarcasm or fiction it’s fact. My next story (not transsexual) is ready for submission and I’ve asked someone who, in my opinion, gives honest comments to look at it before I submit it.

DanaGordon said:

I requested that the two chapters I put up be pulled down. They are riddled with errors and I'm not terribly proud of them aside from the concept, which I am going to stick with. I've already started rewrites, and I'm happy with where I am so far.

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I don’t know whether your stories are “riddled with errors” because I made it clear in my earlier comments that I hadn’t read them and was commenting on other points that I thought worth mentioning. It’s your decision to do whatever you wish with your own work and I’m sure that you’re not a defeatist. If you are happy with and proud of your stories and have a good reader feedback, which doesn’t mean it has to be 4.5+, then the world is sunnier place.

Dunder Mifflin and Scranton

Hi Dana:

What might be fun and useful is if you could get something of the real place of Scranton into the stories. I've used that kind of technique at times.

I know you've probably never been there. (I was only there for two days about twenty years ago.) But if you research on-line a bit, including images of what it looks like, you'll probably hit some inspiration.

Where did Pam go to high school? You can probably pick one in the city or surrounding towns. The school likely will have its own site. From details like that you will get ideas about what she has seen and thought about during her life.

GHT