Any Engineering/Building Experts?

My kiddo is doing the Egg Drop Challenge at school. Hubby is away on business and building stuff is, well, a major challenge for me. None of my local engineering contacts are available (most of them are working on this project w/ their kids) and I'm having trouble figuring out how to get started based on Youtube videos and such.

Materials allowed (any type of):
-Popsicle sticks/tongue depressors
-Toothpicks
-Glue
-Straws
-Rubber bands

Container must be:
< 12 inches in diameter
< 12 ounces
Able to withstand a drop from a 6-foot ladder (then 10.5-feet the next day, if it makes it to the final round) on Wednesday!

No remote control devices, parachutes, treated eggs, tethers, ropes...basically, no cheating

I've attached the ideas I've had so far (the first sides of boxes/shapes). Both used lower-temp hot glue. My thought was to suspend a hammock-like sling inside some sort of container, and possibly add a bunch of extra loose rubber bands as additional padding, just in case. I'm not sure if that's a good idea or not, but I'm clearly running into trouble on the actual container building process...

Does anyone want to help walk me through a design (that hopefully can withstand the 6-foot drop at least) step-by-step? If I can get a clear idea on how to build this container for myself, then I'm hoping I can competently help my kidlet think through the project/process (which is what this is all about, right?).

SweetErika said:

Able to withstand a drop from a 6-foot ladder (then 10.5-feet the next day, if it makes it to the final round) on Wednesday!

Click to expand...

Does it have to be the same container, or just one of the same design the next day?

IOW, can the container protect the egg by crumpling.

Off the top of my head, I'd probably glue tongue depressors in a dodecahedron for the outer shell, then a simple hexagon top and bottom to hold the egg. Then run rubber bands from each point of the dodecahedron to either the top or bottom hexagon holding the egg to act as shock absorbers. If at all possible, I'd arrange the shock absorbing rubber bands so they would hold the egg so the weight would be distributed at a corner rather than a flat.

If the kiddo has the patience to work out a small stellated, the pyramidal shape will act as primary shock absorbers relegating the rubber bands to secondaries. With that design, you could probably forego the toothpick hexagons and just nest the egg directly in a suspending lattice of rubber bands.

Edit: P.S. He has to tell his physics teacher he got it from a porn writer.

Interesting, i would be very tempted to use the straws as a basis to surround the egg as layers of straws would provide a great shock absorbant and semi flexible surface when multiple layers of straws are uniformly bundled tightly around the egg. The same principle is the main design success of corrogated cardboard(low resistence crumple/shock absorption)
Ewobbits suggestion is exemplary and i'm tempted to try his for myself just out of design interest
Its nice to see schools still challenging and educating in an interactive way,Good luck .

I don't know which episode it is, but Mythbusters did this challenge and found the perfect materials to have the egg survive a three story drop. I remember seeing it, but I don't remember what the materials or the construction method used.

Here's a youtube segment. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ehVQM0I0PSU

Yes, really really be careful about Youtube. If it's a popular school project challenge, Youtube is pretty much going to ruin it by basically telling any parent the physics tricks being implemented.

So, just assume other parents are getting their ideas from Youtube. Unfortunately, fight fire with fire.

Like the person above me, a quick search on Youtube brings up a lot of really detailed explanations and trials of the experiment.

As a naive thought experiment, just fill the container with glue, drop the egg in. You're good to go.

Video advice:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nsnyl8llfH4

Weird Harold said:

Does it have to be the same container, or just one of the same design the next day?

IOW, can the container protect the egg by crumpling.

Click to expand...

It can be another container of the same design the next day, I'm sure. The rules don't say anything about the container round to round. They do say that they'll provide the egg for the second round, so the container can't be built around the egg.

Ewobbit said:

Off the top of my head, I'd probably glue tongue depressors in a dodecahedron for the outer shell, then a simple hexagon top and bottom to hold the egg. Then run rubber bands from each point of the dodecahedron to either the top or bottom hexagon holding the egg to act as shock absorbers. If at all possible, I'd arrange the shock absorbing rubber bands so they would hold the egg so the weight would be distributed at a corner rather than a flat.

If the kiddo has the patience to work out a small stellated, the pyramidal shape will act as primary shock absorbers relegating the rubber bands to secondaries. With that design, you could probably forego the toothpick hexagons and just nest the egg directly in a suspending lattice of rubber bands.

Edit: P.S. He has to tell his physics teacher he got it from a porn writer.

Click to expand...

Said kiddo is just working on graduating kindergarten. We have to go with something simple enough that:
a) I can figure out how to build (a rather big hurdle) with the allowed materials;
b) I can break down into simple, age-appropriate steps and concepts so he can actually learn something from and fully participate in this project.

Chris_Michael said:

Yes, really really be careful about Youtube. If it's a popular school project challenge, Youtube is pretty much going to ruin it by basically telling any parent the physics tricks being implemented.

So, just assume other parents are getting their ideas from Youtube. Unfortunately, fight fire with fire.

Like the person above me, a quick search on Youtube brings up a lot of really detailed explanations and trials of the experiment.

Click to expand...

Yep, I'm assuming many will build a design based on that in the link Ogg posted. It seems to be the simplest idea overall. The poor local Wendy's will be cleaned out of straws!

We'll probably have to do something similar, considering the fact that I need step-by-step visual instructions on building most things.

wanderingwizard said:

As a naive thought experiment, just fill the container with glue, drop the egg in. You're good to go.

Click to expand...

That'd qualify as coating the egg, I believe. Plus, I don't have that much glue or any idea on how to build a container that would hold a bunch of glue.

Jamiegeo said:

Interesting, i would be very tempted to use the straws as a basis to surround the egg as layers of straws would provide a great shock absorbant and semi flexible surface when multiple layers of straws are uniformly bundled tightly around the egg. The same principle is the main design success of corrogated cardboard(low resistence crumple/shock absorption)
Ewobbits suggestion is exemplary and i'm tempted to try his for myself just out of design interest
Its nice to see schools still challenging and educating in an interactive way,Good luck .

Click to expand...

I did buy biodegradable paper straws on Amazon and have that sort of thought initially. But then I couldn't figure out how to surround the egg with the layers of straws securely. It's worth investigating further, perhaps.

oggbashan said:

Video advice:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nsnyl8llfH4

Click to expand...

Yep, that's the design that looked best to me, based on its simplicity. I think I have an idea as to how to build the pyramid after watching it umpteen times. Maybe we can start there, and then suspend the pyramid in a straw cube of some sort with the rubber bands?

SweetErika said:

My kiddo is doing the Egg Drop Challenge at school. Hubby is away on business and building stuff is, well, a major challenge for me. None of my local engineering contacts are available (most of them are working on this project w/ their kids) and I'm having trouble figuring out how to get started based on Youtube videos and such.

Materials allowed (any type of):
-Popsicle sticks/tongue depressors
-Toothpicks
-Glue
-Straws
-Rubber bands

Container must be:
< 12 inches in diameter
< 12 ounces
Able to withstand a drop from a 6-foot ladder (then 10.5-feet the next day, if it makes it to the final round) on Wednesday!

No remote control devices, parachutes, treated eggs, tethers, ropes...basically, no cheating

I've attached the ideas I've had so far (the first sides of boxes/shapes). Both used lower-temp hot glue. My thought was to suspend a hammock-like sling inside some sort of container, and possibly add a bunch of extra loose rubber bands as additional padding, just in case. I'm not sure if that's a good idea or not, but I'm clearly running into trouble on the actual container building process...

Does anyone want to help walk me through a design (that hopefully can withstand the 6-foot drop at least) step-by-step? If I can get a clear idea on how to build this container for myself, then I'm hoping I can competently help my kidlet think through the project/process (which is what this is all about, right?).

Click to expand...

I'm surprised that tape isn't allowed...

Talk to your kiddo about triangles being a strong shape for buildings, bridges, etc. You can use some of the activities here: http://www.rogersconnection.com/triangles/ to guide you in this - and experiment with the strength of triangles and different tetrahedron designs. From there, you can lead him to trying a tetrahedron design, which should be feasible for him to have a hand in building himself, fine motor skills permitting. You can try building a tetrahedron without the spikes from the extra length and one with... which one will work better? Basic instructions for tetrahedron building are linked on the page I showed you.

Don't be tempted to give Humpty a belt made out of rubber bands - remember the watermelon experiments where applying pressure there made the melon burst. Another thing you could try with kiddo is to get him to put a finger on the little end and big end of the egg and push with all his might - he won't be able to break the egg going 'top to bottom' like that (this is why we break eggs on their sides...). If you want to get really into the 'strong shapes' idea, you could tell him that an arch (like an eggshell) is also a strong shape, because it spreads the pressure evenly.

Getting the straws to run parallel to the egg rather than at the egg will help avoid the 'stiletto on an elephant foot' problem on impact, in that the force will be spread somewhere other than the eggshell.

Glad you're doing this with your kid, even though engineering isn't your forte. Might bust some stereotypes as well as some eggs.

Whilst on the subject of engineering and education and fun: i enjoy 'the eyeballing game' on woodengears.com..

SweetErika said:

Yep, I'm assuming many will build a design based on that in the link Ogg posted. It seems to be the simplest idea overall. The poor local Wendy's will be cleaned out of straws!

We'll probably have to do something similar, considering the fact that I need step-by-step visual instructions on building most things.


...


Yep, that's the design that looked best to me, based on its simplicity. I think I have an idea as to how to build the pyramid after watching it umpteen times. Maybe we can start there, and then suspend the pyramid in a straw cube of some sort with the rubber bands?

Click to expand...

A cube isn't necessary. The straws should be pointing outwards like spikes. They can take the most force on their ends.

The main point about the straws is that none of them should point AT the egg. The force should pass BY the egg around the edge of the pyramid.

The next most important thing is that the straws should point out in all directions so that whichever way the device turns when dropped a straw or straws will take the impact.

IF you get to the next round, you will have to replace any straws broken or bent during the first drop.

Thank you so much for all the awesome explanations and ideas on teaching engineering and physics concepts!

Attached is the YouTube knockoff we came up with last night. As you can see, we mixed it up with the paper straws and lots of rubber bands. I had the kiddo choose which type of straw he felt was strongest, we talked about force, tension, etc. He was excited about developing a prototype. It survived 4 consecutive test drops last night, no problem. Outer straws bent here and there, but the rubber-banded and hot-glued pyramid worked to protect the egg.

We may refine and even try some other ideas to discuss the concepts you brought up, but it's a big relief to have a design that works all ready to go for Wednesday. I warned the kiddo that lots of people would likely have similar designs, bur we talked about how ours was unique due to the paper straws he chose and rubber band use. Honestly, it's the only design I could figure out how to create with this time line and the kiddo's age/skills, but that's better than no design, right?

I'm also working on growth thinking, so this ended up being an excellent opportunity to talk about practicing challenging subjects, overcoming ideas abut my weaknesses and how trials and failures actually make us better and smarter. That's probably the most valuable lesson for both of us at this stage.

Nice work! Fantastic mindset also

SweetErika said:

Thank you so much for all the awesome explanations and ideas on teaching engineering and physics concepts!

Attached is the YouTube knockoff we came up with last night. As you can see, we mixed it up with the paper straws and lots of rubber bands. I had the kiddo choose which type of straw he felt was strongest, we talked about force, tension, etc. He was excited about developing a prototype. It survived 4 consecutive test drops last night, no problem. Outer straws bent here and there, but the rubber-banded and hot-glued pyramid worked to protect the egg.

We may refine and even try some other ideas to discuss the concepts you brought up, but it's a big relief to have a design that works all ready to go for Wednesday. I warned the kiddo that lots of people would likely have similar designs, bur we talked about how ours was unique due to the paper straws he chose and rubber band use. Honestly, it's the only design I could figure out how to create with this time line and the kiddo's age/skills, but that's better than no design, right?

I'm also working on growth thinking, so this ended up being an excellent opportunity to talk about practicing challenging subjects, overcoming ideas abut my weaknesses and how trials and failures actually make us better and smarter. That's probably the most valuable lesson for both of us at this stage.

Click to expand...

Looks amazing - he did a great job! What height did you test from? What height *can* you test from? If he's had fun developing it and he gets the idea about where the force is going, how to protect the egg, then that's what counts - and his is unique because he's done the work of building it and understanding it, with help from his mother. The straws breaking show where the force of impact is going - and it's better that the straws break than their precious cargo.

Wondering if 'one tetrahedron is good, more must be better!' might be test-worthy, even if it might be slightly too big for competition? (look for the two-frequency tetrahedron image in the triangle page I showed you.) Alternatively, you could test a 'raft' or cube, (outside!) as a further proof of the strength of triangles.

Great Job!

It's a very good prototype. One important thing you showed your son was the importance of planning ahead of time. Also, why testing is essential; trial and error, teamwork, getting projects completed early, problem solving skills (choosing between straw types), etc. A+ for mom, A+ for your son.

Let us know how it turns out tomorrow.

Weird Harold said:

Does it have to be the same container, or just one of the same design the next day?

IOW, can the container protect the egg by crumpling.

Click to expand...

Haa haa 1st questions I had too!

Is there a maximum number of straws you're allowed to use? and if possible try to attach some "tail feathers" so the point of contact is the one you planned & tested on, like a badminton shuttlecock. Or lawn dart
Take a cue from automobile crash test dummies, "stronger" isn't necessarily better, it transfers more force to the soft squishy breakable bits. The idea is to disapate force, not transfer it. Crumple zones do that well.

Edit -- LOL just read this was for Kindergarden. Still...no reason to half ass it. Go Tiger Mom!

GrrlFriday said:

Looks amazing - he did a great job! What height did you test from? What height *can* you test from? If he's had fun developing it and he gets the idea about where the force is going, how to protect the egg, then that's what counts - and his is unique because he's done the work of building it and understanding it, with help from his mother. The straws breaking show where the force of impact is going - and it's better that the straws break than their precious cargo.

Wondering if 'one tetrahedron is good, more must be better!' might be test-worthy, even if it might be slightly too big for competition? (look for the two-frequency tetrahedron image in the triangle page I showed you.) Alternatively, you could test a 'raft' or cube, (outside!) as a further proof of the strength of triangles.

Click to expand...

We tested from 10+ feet. I stood on a 4' stepladder, held it up as high as I could and dropped it multiple times without any real adjustments in between. Maybe we'll drop it out the kiddo's bedroom window as a final test tonight (the 6' ladder drop is tomorrow, then the 10.5' roof drop on Thursday night).

We're planning on making some other prototypes tonight just for fun, so maybe we'll try the tetrahedron idea.

Porkwarrior said:

Edit -- LOL just read this was for Kindergarden. Still...no reason to half ass it. Go Tiger Mom!

Click to expand...

My son is particularly interested in nearly all things S.T.E.M. Reading and writing are proving to be quite the challenge, but he zips through math, science and factual info like crazy. He said that he didn't think anyone else in his kinder class was building an egg contraption. I can see that...if I didn't have a kid who was super interested in prototypes and experiments, I probably wouldn't prioritize this activity, either.

So we tried the "corrugated cardboard" idea (with a bunch of straws surrounding the egg), and it failed immediately and spectacularly. It was great for the kiddo to see the failure and learn the associated lessons.

Then we built the tetrahedron (no small feat for Mama; I have the mildly burnt fingertips to prove it! ), and of course it was another great success. HOWEVER, when a neighbor asked the kid who built it, he pointed at me. He cut the straws and we discussed the concepts, but he didn't feel any great ownership of that design. And it definitely looks like an adult (or at least an older kid) built it. I'm sure that's what all of the Boeing engineers will submit via their kids.

So, we shored up our original straws-on-pyramid-with-rubber-bands design, and he's going to enter that in the contest tomorrow. He feels more ownership of--and emotional connection to--that one, and that's really important.

Thanks so much for the help! I'll let you guys know how it goes after Thursday.

It'll work, and he knows the principles and has ownership of it. You've hopefully had some fun testing it together and thinking through the process together. It'll definitely survive the drops, to boot.

Here is a strong triangle for your son to help him remember.

I didn't glean the kiddo was kindergarten either. This is my "oopshit" face.

Ah, well. After doing some pretty thorough checking, after I'd already posted my idea, I found a case where a student did it. So, my idea had already been done (albeit by a High School Senior).

Speaking only for myself, if someone had let me play with a hot glue gun for twelve hours when I was five, I probably would have burned myself, the cat, the house...

Deep freeze the damn egg.

Great job!! I wish I'd spotted this sooner but it looks like you've had plenty of ideas. The failures are the fascinating part.
Awesome Mum - but we all knew that xx