All thoughts are welcome

MelissaBaby said:

As someone who writes multi-chapter series (and it's starting to look like at least one loooong multi-chapter series, I think the ratings are helpful, because it's a reasonable assumption that, once you are several chapters in, you are writing to a group that has been following along. Any significant fluctuation could indicate whether or not they are pleased with the direction of the narrative.

Or, since I'm just a girl writer, that I should show my tits more, or less, as the case may be.

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Setting aside any debate about your girly bits and their relevance to writing (I can't type with my cock and I suspect your boobs can't quite manage the space bar either, so I reckon we're equal there) I agree.

I've got a 23 chapter shaggy dog story which settled into its readership around chapter three. I reckon I can spot which chapters folk read twice, I can definitely see the down vote when I wrote a bit of GM and incest (just to see what would happen). I had a bit of a rant at the time with one joker who complained and, as I was writing it in real time, I deliberately wrote the next chapter where the hero gets ass-fucked by a black trans woman, just to really fuck with his head. I then wrote a straight hetero chapter with a nice girl and got a comment thanking me for "getting back on track." Which I thought was rather sweet.

I use the scoring system to gauge the reception of my stories relative to my own body of work, but that's it. I'd never assume my 4.75, for example, would be equal merit with your 4.75 - all it tells me is readers liked it better than my story with a 4.00.

beerlovr88 said:

At the same time you did want to bring up view count, and it's rather curious that you talk about said view count as if this variable would not in any way be related to ratings.

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There's some relationship there, but it's weak and the direction is uncertain.

A catchy title and blurb can draw more eyeballs, but that doesn't mean those readers are going to enjoy it. If anything, higher view counts seem to correlate weakly with lower ratings; some of my best-rated scores are also the least-read.

There is an exception - if a story gets high enough ratings to make a toplist, that will significantly increase views. But it doesn't work in the other direction.

So what is it exactly that you think I've said that you'd be so motivated to classify as cruel? Because if bringing up ratings or view count is cruel then I'd be among the least cruel there is (at least when posting feedback for another story), and any way you want to try and spin it, the same can't be said about you.

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...and then the very next paragraph...

The fact is that you also get comments offering to give you '5 star reviews' if you show your tits, which makes me think that some of the other commentators might just be trying to play the long game.

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In which you imply that Melissa's favourable comments are not due to the quality of her work, but rather to horny guys looking for sexual favours.

"Cruel" isn't the first word I'd use for that, but it wouldn't be wrong.

AwkwardMD said:

Let’s assume, for a moment, that Marshal’s condition is real.

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Why are we assuming this?

AwkwardMD said:

If a hemophiliac went to the ER with a massive bruise, even one that's life threatening, the police would not get involved. Hemophiliacs get injured easily, and they wouldn’t be pushed to explain who caused them injuries. Any ER doctor or nurse worth their salt would be able to tell that someone with his condition could bruise themselves that badly by accident. This leaves us with two possible conclusions 1) You haven’t written this condition consistently, or 2) Marshal is lying to Tracey about having been questioned by the police to make her (and by extension, the reader) feel even more guilt for her treatment of him.

(Or he was joking and I missed it, but it didn't feel like he was joking or is the kind of character who makes jokes at all)

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I'm going to go out on a limb here and go with option 3. You missed it, and your perception of the character isn't consistent with how he was portrayed.

"he started giggling like a small child, clearly very pleased with himself for having tricked her. His use of fake tattoos, made up medical conditions and pretending to be in pain clearly had the desired effect upon her. He felt like she had treated him unfairly by lashing out at him, and even if it was only for a few moments, he still made her feel a way that she never thought possible; genuinely sorry for having hit him.

She sat down on the couch as the flood of emotions slowly subsided. "Really, Marshal? I should tell the police that I've seen a 6'6'' black fellow with a durag and livestrong tattoo to give your story more credibility?" In hindsight it was so ridiculous that it was incredible that she had initially believed it.

"Yes, well, I thought that if anyone would be good at providing fake testimonies then it would be you."

Oh and regardless of whether or not you're missing key parts of the story, I still want to thank you for sharing your thoughts.

AwkwardMD said:

When I started reading this story, I thought this was going to turn into a psychological evaluation of sex workers and the toll that their job can take on them, much like ChloeTzang’s excellent Will You Still Love Me Tomorrow, but it really isn’t about that. In hindsight, I don’t understand how this story fits that title at all.

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The title was used to poke fun of 'serious' stories about the 'psychological evaluation of sex workers and the toll that their job can take on them', such as the one you mentioned. Perhaps my attempt at satire was weak (fair enough), or perhaps what what I was attempting to satirize was merely something that you already take seriously, in which case you would in fact have immense difficulty understanding how the story fit the title.

Speaking of which, the title was inspired by this article here: http://theweek.com/articles/749978/female-price-male-pleasure. Which, coincidentally, it again happens to be the type of thing that I keep going back and forth on regarding whether the article is being serious or whether it too was written as a comedy.

AwkwardMD said:

She’s too stupid to remember the name of Marshal’s condition four paragraphs after he states it

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You've taken it upon yourself to openly speculate about the 'unconscious manifestations of my insecurities', so allow me to say that if having to remember a fictional medical condition without knowing beforehand that I'm suppose to be remembering it is an indicator of stupidity, then feel free to count me in amongst all the stupid people in the world. Multiple times now you've given criteria which you think indicate how 'smart' something is, and whichever metric you decide to use, I'm really not all that concerned with where it is on that spectrum that I may or may not fall under.

AwkwardMD said:

If I were going to hazard a guess, I would say that your sentence construction is an unconscious manifestation of insecurity. You feel like nobody appreciates how smart you are

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Let me know if I'm doing this right.

If I were to hazard a guess, I would say that you're insecure that your own views, ideas or opinions might not be good enough to gain the respect or approval of others, and so you sign some of your posts with "~doc", as if deep down inside you know that your thoughts aren't good enough to stand on merit alone.

Bramblethorn said:

you imply that Melissa's favourable comments are not due to the quality of her work, but rather to horny guys looking for sexual favours.

"Cruel" isn't the first word I'd use for that, but it wouldn't be wrong.

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Sure, but the context of her original allegation -- that I am needlessly 'cruel' -- directly pertained to solicited feedback that I gave to other authors in other threads, and any which way you try and spin it, when I asked for a specific example of my 'cruelty' she wasn't able to provide one. Meanwhile, here is just one of several examples of authors who offer me nothing but praise for my commentary:

"it means a lot to me to see that as a big takeaway for you. It makes me feel like the work I put into Dream Girl was worth it.

Thank you."

Furthermore, let's not forget that the comment you're referring had nothing at all to do with solicited feedback; rather, it pertained to a rather snide remark on her part in which she literally claims: "You don't have much of a sense of humor, do you?"

I saw this as an invitation to trade off with snide commentary, and while you're more than welcome to interpret this trade off as 'cruel', I'd still maintain that in terms of original context, you're comparing apples and oranges. But by all means, continue on with this tendency of yours to jump in and try 'defending' those who clearly aren't able to support their claims on their own.

GrandTeton said:

The title of this thread is "All Thoughts Are Welcome", but of course they aren't.

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Indeed, the title isn't meant as an invitation for people to share their thoughts about the legitimacy of Mueller's investigation into possible collusion between Trump and the Russians. It's meant as an invitation to share whatever thoughts you might have about the story, and to this end, no one has been criticized for sharing a negative opinion of the story.

GrandTeton said:

You are condescending, insulting and prone to defending the indefensible.

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And I think the Mueller investigation is a witch hunt. Alas, this thread isn't about witch hunts or whether or not you think my forum commentary is condescending. If for whatever reason you think the story is turgid, lifeless, uses too many semi-colons, hides too many mysteries and is not remotely entertaining then that's most certainly a prerogative that I've yet to criticize or 'defend against' in any way, and it's a pity that for all your opinions about my supposed capacity to provide others with helpful feedback, that this was more or less the extent of your own criticism before you later wanted to openly declare yourself as some sort of expert for why other authors submit stories.

beerlovr88 said:

Sure, but the context of her original allegation -- that I am needlessly 'cruel' -- directly pertained to solicited feedback that I gave to other authors in other threads, and any which way you try and spin it, when I asked for a specific example of my 'cruelty' she wasn't able to provide one.

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Jumping to conclusions there. I can't speak for Melissa, but I suspect you might have confused "unable to" with "decided you weren't worth the time".

A cursory glance at your recent posting history in this forum reveals a penchant for gratuitously cruel cheap shots. Here are some of the things you've said to authors who asked for feedback:

beerlovr88 said:

But if view count, votes and negative commentary was the currency you were seeking all along then congrats; trolling readers with the race card seems to have sold.

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beerlovr88 said:

I guess here on literotica there's a secret contest going on with how many errors you can have and still get featured

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beerlovr88 said:

A child might be able to enjoy a kid's show despite its poor acting, predictable plot and lack of depth, and I only mention this because I think it's this childlike mentality that's going to be needed to look past these egregious previsions of the English language and enjoy the OP's story.

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beerlovr88 said:

So many authors are dying for 'feedback', and part of the problem with providing it is that potential criticism often boils down to simple variation in personal preference.

Thankfully I think your story has nothing to do with this. Dull, unimaginative, uninspiring; it's tempting to say that the combination of first person and present tense was a tremendous turn off, but to be fair that might have just been because of awkwardly worded and cringe-worthy sentences that were all over the place.

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Yep, "needlessly cruel" is a pretty accurate description of those posts. They read like the work of a Statler-and-Waldorf wannabe.

Incidentally, I was tickled by the contrast between these two opinions:

beerlovr88 said:

Too many authors are choosing to ignore too many conventional standards/ rules of thumb for writing.

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beerlovr88 said:

You call the story 'odd' and 'different from the usual', which I consider to be very high praise considering that this was the goal. I find that 'typical' rhetoric can be quite boring and overly simplistic, and so I took it upon myself to deviate.

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Meanwhile, here is just one of several examples of authors who offer me nothing but praise for my commentary:

"it means a lot to me to see that as a big takeaway for you. It makes me feel like the work I put into Dream Girl was worth it.

Thank you."

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Here is the full text of the post that you're referring to. I leave it to other readers to assess whether "nothing but praise for my commentary" is a honest description of that interaction... or even of those two sentences.

If you choose to award yourself the Internet Victory Trophy every time somebody decides you're an argumentative douche who isn't worth replying to, then I see a lot of victories in your future. I'm about to award you one more by sticking you on ignore - bye now!

beerlovr88 said:

Indeed, the title isn't meant as an invitation for people to share their thoughts about the legitimacy of Mueller's investigation into possible collusion between Trump and the Russians. It's meant as an invitation to share whatever thoughts you might have about the story, and to this end, no one has been criticized for sharing a negative opinion of the story.


And I think the Mueller investigation is a witch hunt. Alas, this thread isn't about witch hunts or whether or not you think my forum commentary is condescending. If for whatever reason you think the story is turgid, lifeless, uses too many semi-colons, hides too many mysteries and is not remotely entertaining then that's most certainly a prerogative that I've yet to criticize or 'defend against' in any way, and it's a pity that for all your opinions about my supposed capacity to provide others with helpful feedback, that this was more or less the extent of your own criticism before you later wanted to openly declare yourself as some sort of expert for why other authors submit stories.

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Hadn't considered that you were illiterate, but if that's what you read into my comments - only part of which you chose to quote - then I suppose you are. Bye now.

This is the first time I've seen someone who has openly asked for critiques and then attacked everyone who has offered a critique.

Although, in the author's defense, some of these comments are quite rude and seem to be offered more to encourage laughter than to improve the author's ability. Though, I think there are quite a few good critiques on this thread, and the author should probably pay attention to those rather than respond to every little comment.

The goal for any critic is to provide constructive criticism, not make an attempt to be funny at the expense of the author.

Alexis_White said:

This is the first time I've seen someone who has openly asked for critiques and then attacked everyone who has offered a critique.

Although, in the author's defense, some of these comments are quite rude and seem to be offered more to encourage laughter than to improve the author's ability.

The goal for any critic is to provide constructive criticism, not make an attempt to be funny at the expense of the author.

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The OP arrived in the feedback forum not so long ago with an attitude and a mouth that made him no friends well before this thread. There's an element of what goes around, comes around, sure, but he brought a big chunk of it on himself. Comeuppance is the appropriate word, I think.

Alexis_White said:

This is the first time I've seen someone who has openly asked for critiques and then attacked everyone who has offered a critique.

Although, in the author's defense, some of these comments are quite rude and seem to be offered more to encourage laughter than to improve the author's ability. Though, I think there are quite a few good critiques on this thread, and the author should probably pay attention to those rather than respond to every little comment.

The goal for any critic is to provide constructive criticism, not make an attempt to be funny at the expense of the author.

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I had hoped to supply a thoughtful critique but as a female I was not physically capable of deriving anything remotely worthwhile from the read.

electricblue66 said:

The OP arrived in the feedback forum not so long ago with an attitude and a mouth that made him no friends well before this thread. There's an element of what goes around, comes around, sure, but he brought a big chunk of it on himself. Comeuppance is the appropriate word, I think.

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Ah, I see. I didn't know that.

MelissaBaby said:

I had hoped to supply a thoughtful critique but as a female I was not physically capable of deriving anything remotely worthwhile from the read.

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His introductory post was a bit odd...

Though, I thoroughly enjoyed reading your responses XD

Bramblethorn said:

Yep, "needlessly cruel" is a pretty accurate description of those posts.

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If a person is seeking views or comments then trolling readers with the "race card" is absolutely a great way to do it. Furthermore, this comment came after I already provided my review of the story, as a response when the author wanted to mention all the comments they received for his story.

You can call this cruel if you want to but I'll always stand by the veracity of this claim. In contrast, by her own admission Melisa chose not to respond with the 100% honesty that I've always extended to others. Still though, it is rather amusing that you're so motivated to jump in and defend the claims of people who aren't able to defend it themselves, and your personal perception of what cruelty entails seems quite odd.

Bramblethorn said:

but I suspect you might have confused "unable to" with "decided you weren't worth the time".

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No confusion at all. In fact there's only so many ways that could turn my non-falsifiable claim into a falsifiable one, meaning that I'll stand my original assertion that she'd be unable to do so.

MelissaBaby said:

I had hoped to supply a thoughtful critique but as a female I was not physically capable

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Indeed it is truly tragic that people are so inclined to believe that their gender might serve as a limiting factor when providing others a thoughtful critique.

Alexis_White said:

Although, in the author's defense, some of these comments are quite rude and seem to be offered more to encourage laughter

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Yeah, what gives?

electricblue66 said:

The OP arrived in the feedback forum not so long ago with an attitude and a mouth that made him no friends

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Ah. If the my opening 2 words in the thread were wrong then surely everything else would be doomed as well.

beerlovr88 said:

Ah. If the my opening 2 words in the thread were wrong then surely everything else would be doomed as well.

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Disingenuous. You know very well your post history prior to this thread, and several requests from folk here asking you to be civil.

electricblue66 said:

Disingenuous. You know very well your post history prior to this thread, and several requests from folk here asking you to be civil.

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Disingenuous? I guess you're convinced that I was suppose to know beforehand that the previous requests for civility would automatically preclude the possibility of friendship.

beerlovr88 said:

Indeed it is truly tragic that people are so inclined to believe that their gender might serve as a limiting factor when providing others a thoughtful critique.

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Your own words:

P.S. I feel like I should extend a personal word of caution to female readers. After all, the main story revolves around a male-exclusive fantasy, meaning that I'd be very much surprised if any female anywhere were physically capable of deriving anything remotely worthwhile from the read.

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MelissaBaby said:

Your own words:

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A potential inability to derive something worthwhile (i.e. pleasure from the read) =/= an inherent inability to critique.

beerlovr88 said:

A potential inability to derive something worthwhile (i.e. pleasure from the read) =/= an inherent inability to critique.

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It's a moot point really, since, as it turns out, the inability to derive anything worthwhile from your writing was not gender specific.

MelissaBaby said:

It's a moot point really, since, as it turns out, the inability to derive anything worthwhile from your writing was not gender specific.

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Indeed, for such a moot point it's rather curious that you wanted to readdress the issue by openly declaring that your gender might have limited your ability to assess. Regardless, if gender specificity is a concept that peaks one's curiosity, then would you agree that it might be helpful to have people list their gender?