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Hooray for Scott Walker!

Clearly it's not the economy, stupid, otherwise Donald Trump would be way more popular and Rs would be winning elections.

You know why it's not working? Because this isn't 1992 or 2008 and we didn't have a bad economy in 2016. Trump ran on a racist "We can't let a Negro take credit for fixing George Bush's Mess" Message.

Haggling over .00001 differences in unemployment is hardly like going from George Bush's collapse to Obama's turnaround.

Dems are winning on: healthcare, gun control, protecting earned benefits, and common decency--all things the Rs tossed into the garbage with their tax cuts and support of the Orange Monster.


DawnODay said:
When I took Economics in college, they taught that unemployment could never fall below 5%; now, under Walker...

Wisconsin’s estimated unemployment rate dipped below 3.0% in February for the first time to a record low of 2.9%, while the state also set a record for the total number of people employed.​

J. Schmid,Wisconsin's unemployment rate falls to lowest level ever: 2.9% Milwaukee Journal Sentinel (Mar. 22, 2018).

As for the politics of it, rather than worrying about a few special elections, remember...


James Carville (1992).
Click to expand...
 
Carnal_Flower said:
Dems are winning on: healthcare, gun control, protecting earned benefits, and common decency--all things the Rs tossed into the garbage with their tax cuts and support of the Orange Monster.
Click to expand...

They did Romneycare...FAIL

They will not get gun control....FAIL

And they openly attack earned benefits through taxation and regulation that are almost all pointed at confiscating earned benefits.

Common decency? Subjective bullshit.

Your fantasy world is laughable at best and sad at worst.
 
BotanyBoy said:
They did Romneycare...FAIL

They will not get gun control....FAIL

And they openly attack earned benefits through taxation and regulation that are almost all pointed at confiscating earned benefits.

Common decency? Subjective bullshit.

Your fantasy world is laughable at best and sad at worst.
Click to expand...
ACA is still the law of the land. Who's in a fantasy world?
 
Carnal_Flower said:
Clearly it's not the economy, stupid, otherwise Donald Trump would be way more popular and Rs would be winning elections....
Click to expand...

I love this, because it is a tacit admission that Trump/Republican policies are better for the economy, while exposing a growing Democratic complacency going into the coming November elections. You forget that special elections, especially in off years, are rarely predictive of anything. (And why do you always have to bring race into everything?)

While the Republicans surely have a tough row to hoe nationally this November, assuming the economy stays good, Walker should have little trouble getting reelected. There may have been a weakly growing economy in 2016 (more robust than nationally in Wisconsin under Walker), but Wisconsin voters will remember in what a mess Jim Doyle and the Democrats had Wisconsin in 2010 (there are already ads running in the state about this). We don't want to be Illinois. Why would we want to go back to Dolye/Dems' multi-billion dollar deficits and rising taxes after Walker has produced annual surpluses while cutting taxes?

Then there's this:

A fully built Foxconn Technology Group plant would add $51.5 billion to Wisconsin’s gross domestic product over the 15 years the state pays incentives to the company, a new analysis by the Metropolitan Milwaukee Association of Commerce concludes.

That would equate to $18 of economic impact for every $1 spent by the state....​

R. Romell, Foxconn would add $51.5 billion to state economy over 15 years, business group estimates, Milwaukee Journal Sentinel (Mar. 23, 2018).
 
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See you at the polls.


DawnODay said:
I love this, because it is a tacit admission that Trump/Republican policies are better for the economy, while exposing a growing Democratic complacency going into the coming November elections. You forget that special elections, especially in off years, are rarely predictive of anything. (And why do you always have to bring race into everything?)

While the Republicans surely have a tough row to hoe nationally this November, assuming the economy stays good, Walker should have little trouble getting reelected. There may have been a weakly growing economy in 2016 (more robust than nationally in Wisconsin under Walker), but Wisconsin voters will remember in what a mess Jim Doyle and the Democrats had Wisconsin in 2010 (there are already ads running in the state about this). We don't want to be Illinois. Why would we want to go back to Dolye/Dems' multi-billion dollar deficits and rising taxes after Walker has produced annual surpluses while cutting taxes?

Then there's this:

A fully built Foxconn Technology Group plant would add $51.5 billion to Wisconsin’s gross domestic product over the 15 years the state pays incentives to the company, a new analysis by the Metropolitan Milwaukee Association of Commerce concludes.

That would equate to $18 of economic impact for every $1 spent by the state....​

R. Romell, Foxconn would add $51.5 billion to state economy over 15 years, business group estimates, Milwaukee Journal Sentinel (Mar. 23, 2018).
Click to expand...
 
DawnODay said:
I love this, because it is a tacit admission that Trump/Republican policies are better for the economy
Click to expand...

Well, that was easily disproved (I'm guessing it hurts even more that your hero, the Orange Nazi, said it in your favorite source: Forbes).

The Foxconn funded study said it would create $78 billion over 15 years.

Now, it's important to remember how in-the-tank MMAC is for Foxconn. I mean it's not like they've got a web page begging for them. Of course the PA Chamber of Commerce was super excited about Foxconn too, it turned out great for them. And where's boy wonder Paul Ryan? Busy ducking questions about people losing their homes.

So you've got a company coming in promising to pay below rate, pollute the environment, and take people's homes. Your boy Walker did a bang up job.
 
How are those special elections going? Or don't constituents deserve representation they've paid for?
 
Hypoxia said:
How are those special elections going? Or don't constituents deserve representation they've paid for?
Click to expand...

I take it, Hypoxia, you are not in Wisconsin, or at least have not familiarized yourself with the actual facts and situation.

No one is going without representation because of this.

The legislative year is almost over in Wisconsin. The Senate has adjourned and the Assembly will shortly. Even if the special elections for those two seats had been called as early as possible, then the actual elections still would not have occurred in time for the people thereby elected to actually sit in a legislative session before the scheduled elections in November. Meanwhile, staffers continue to serve constituents' needs just as they would were the seats filled.

Senate Majority Leader Scott Fitzgerald explains it further in regard to a proposed bill to remedy the situation:

“Since moving the September primary elections back to August to comply with the federal Military and Overseas Voter Empowerment Act, special elections statutes have not been sufficiently changed to ensure military and overseas voters have the same opportunity to participate in state elections. If Judge Reynolds’ ruling stands, military voters seeking to vote in those elections may be disenfranchised. Clerks would likely not have adequate time to send out, and receive back, ballots from military & overseas voters.

“Furthermore, the Wisconsin Constitution still requires the Governor to call special elections to fill legislative vacancies. This bill and amendment simply clarify the timelines for elections when they are called and sets a date after which the regular election will be used to fill a vacancy. This eliminates the need for multiple elections in a short timeline, saving taxpayer dollars and avoiding voter confusion.

“Finally, it is important to note there are already declared candidates for the open legislative seats and the window for nomination papers begins on April 15th. Failure to act on this legislation will create a scenario in which four elections for two legislative seats overlap. This will be extremely complicated for the Elections Commission and county/municipal clerks to facilitate.”​

In short, there is no practical reason not to wait until November to have these elections. Doing so leaves no one without representation during any legislative session, and it avoids a lot of unnecessary extra taxpayer expense.
 
And yet they were legally ordered to hold them.


PrincepsCyberius said:
I take it, Hypoxia, you are not in Wisconsin, or at least have not familiarized yourself with the actual facts and situation.

No one is going without representation because of this.

The legislative year is almost over in Wisconsin. The Senate has adjourned and the Assembly will shortly. Even if the special elections for those two seats had been called as early as possible, then the actual elections still would not have occurred in time for the people thereby elected to actually sit in a legislative session before the scheduled elections in November. Meanwhile, staffers continue to serve constituents' needs just as they would were the seats filled.

Senate Majority Leader Scott Fitzgerald explains it further in regard to a proposed bill to remedy the situation:

“Since moving the September primary elections back to August to comply with the federal Military and Overseas Voter Empowerment Act, special elections statutes have not been sufficiently changed to ensure military and overseas voters have the same opportunity to participate in state elections. If Judge Reynolds’ ruling stands, military voters seeking to vote in those elections may be disenfranchised. Clerks would likely not have adequate time to send out, and receive back, ballots from military & overseas voters.

“Furthermore, the Wisconsin Constitution still requires the Governor to call special elections to fill legislative vacancies. This bill and amendment simply clarify the timelines for elections when they are called and sets a date after which the regular election will be used to fill a vacancy. This eliminates the need for multiple elections in a short timeline, saving taxpayer dollars and avoiding voter confusion.

“Finally, it is important to note there are already declared candidates for the open legislative seats and the window for nomination papers begins on April 15th. Failure to act on this legislation will create a scenario in which four elections for two legislative seats overlap. This will be extremely complicated for the Elections Commission and county/municipal clerks to facilitate.”​

In short, there is no practical reason not to wait until November to have these elections. Doing so leaves no one without representation during any legislative session, and it avoids a lot of unnecessary extra taxpayer expense.
Click to expand...
 
Carnal_Flower said:
And yet they were legally ordered to hold them.
Click to expand...

Right, but that had nothing to do with lack of representation.

Have you read the ruling? It was based on the current language of the state's election laws. These say that special elections for empty legislative seats shall be held "as soon as possible." Given that language, the ruling is correct.

The problem is the language is too simplistic. In this case, as I've outlined above, it requires the state to go through the expense of two special elections to elect legislators who will never sit in a legislative session until after going through a second election in November. Why spend taxpayer money on two elections when just one accomplishes the same thing?

Indeed, think about it. The current "as soon as possible" language could end up, if the timing was such, requiring a mid-October special election just to have the same candidates run again a few weeks later in the second week of November. The statute needs to be improved to avoid either of these wasteful and ridiculous situations.
 
Or:

Walker’s office has said it’s not worth the cost or effort to hold the votes, since regular congressional races will take place in November. But Democrats and their allies say Walker is just scared to lose.

“This is about them not wanting to be embarrassed by losing races in districts they have traditionally won,” Wisconsin Democratic strategist Sachin Chheda told TPM. “Everybody knows it, and I think it’s embarrassing that they’d make a decision on that basis rather than the small ‘d’ democratic tenets of giving people the right to choose their own representative.”
Click to expand...

Like I said above, incumbents usually have the advantage. I feel sure that was not lost on Walker.

Put the seat on ice, and then when the real election rolls around, there won't be a (D) having gained it in a Special Election to run against.

There is a lot more to "representation" than just casting a nameless, faceless vote. You become known, you can go around speaking, you can clarify your agenda, and if a Dem won it would be one more log of wood on the building Democrat fire coming to burn the House down.

PrincepsCyberius said:
Right, but that had nothing to do with lack of representation.

Have you read the ruling? It was based on the current language of the state's election laws. These say that special elections for empty legislative seats shall be held "as soon as possible." Given that language, the ruling is correct.

The problem is the language is too simplistic. In this case, as I've outlined above, it requires the state to go through the expense of two special elections to elect legislators who will never sit in a legislative session until after going through a second election in November. Why spend taxpayer money on two elections when just one accomplishes the same thing?

Indeed, think about it. The current "as soon as possible" language could end up, if the timing was such, requiring a mid-October special election just to have the same candidates run again a few weeks later in the second week of November. The statute needs to be improved to avoid either of these wasteful and ridiculous situations.
Click to expand...
 
PrincepsCyberius said:
No one is going without representation because of this.

The legislative year is almost over in Wisconsin. The Senate has adjourned and the Assembly will shortly. Even if the special elections for those two seats had been called as early as possible, then the actual elections still would not have occurred in time for the people thereby elected to actually sit in a legislative session before the scheduled elections in November. Meanwhile, staffers continue to serve constituents' needs just as they would were the seats filled.
Click to expand...
I dunno know how it goes in cheezehead land, but in the states wherein I've resided, most legislators spend most of their time dealing with constituents, not sitting in legislative session. You have a problem or desire or whatever? Call your rep. What, there's no rep there, even tho we paid for reps? That's taxation without representation.

How can staff respond when they've no elected boss to direct them? And if staff are sufficient, then we've no need for reps, or elections, right? Why bother with costly elections and pols when a few staff pros can do the job? Or contract with a firm to provide constituent services in all districts. That would be much more efficient than this sloppy 'democracy' crap.

Courts ordered elections, right? Is your governator a common scofflaw?
 
Carnal_Flower said:
See you at the polls.
Click to expand...

Exactly my thoughts. Of course, if Walker loses, I'll eat my share of crow, but bear in mind, evidence of any blue tsunami is fading, e.g.,

Democratic contenders held a five percentage-point advantage ahead of the 2018 midterms, with 46 percent of voters favoring left-leaning candidates to 41 percent preferring GOP candidates.

A similar poll placed in the field by Fox News in October revealed Democrats enjoyed a 15 percentage-point margin over Republicans (50-35 percent).​

N. Lim, Republican candidates make gains in Fox News congressional generic ballot poll, Washington Examiner (Mar. 25, 2018).


Then there is poor, sad, dan_c00000....

dan_c00000 said:
So you've got a company coming in promising to pay below rate....
Click to expand...

Wrong, as usual.

[Foxconn] production workers will be paid an average starting wage of $23.02 an hour. That amounts to $47,881 a year for full-time work. The average wage for production occupations in Wisconsin was $18.05 an hour, or $37,540 a year, as of May 2016, according to the U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics.

Full-time employees at Foxconn will average $25.90 an hour, or almost $54,000 a year.... The company will pay 100% of individual health insurance including dental and vision coverage....​

R. Romell, Foxconn to begin by hiring hundreds of assembly workers in 2018, Milwaukee Journal Sentinel (Dec. 1, 2017).

Meanwhile, remember all of those dire predictions about Foxconn never going through with the deal?

Foxconn expects to start construction on its $10-billion facility in Mount Pleasant within the next 60 days.​

C. Benson, Foxconn expected to begin construction in Mount Pleasant within next 60 days, WTMJ-TV (Mar. 25, 2018).
 
dan_c00000 said:
Your numbers mean nothing. I've already disproved them and ruined them. Let me quote myself.

Funny how you keep moving the goalposts.
Click to expand...

I'm glad you quoted that. I hope you realize that the Household income frequently includes two paychecks. Assuming the husband works at Foxconn and makes $53,875 annually and the wife works elsewhere and is paid minimum salary - or vice-versa - the household income for that family will be substantially higher than it would be for those who are not getting a paycheck from Foxconn.

And in that part of the country, the COL is lower than most places.
 
Boxlicker101 said:
I'm glad you quoted that. I hope you realize that the Household income frequently includes two paychecks.
Click to expand...

I'm glad you brought this up because you're about to get ruined again (and this time not for a being a racist which is a shock to us all). We'll keep this simple and deal with just the traditional idea of a family (mom, dad, and kids).

There's a bit over 70,000 households in Racine county. Of those a bit over 54% are married couples. So you're "frequently" is already wrong because nearly half of the households are only one person. Could that one person be working multiple jobs? Sure, but that still proves my point Foxconn will still be offering a wage below that and that person would still wind up working additional jobs.

If you look at the data further you'll see that almost 13% of households females with no husband (another destruction of your two checks theory) and finally about 9% of households were people living alone. This goes back to my previous point: Foxconn is offering a job below what people there already have.

If we're going by past examples Foxconn isn't exactly a great place to work.

Finally, let's subtract that the state will be paying 17% of the Foxconn employee's salary. So really Foxconn is paying their employees an average of $44,716.25. That's about $9k less than the number Foxconn claims and a final complete destruction of your shitty argument.

Another bang up job by Walker.
 
Lmao.

Ok, let's see. A FOX NEWS poll in the Washington Examiner. No conservative bias there, no siree.

Even so, did you read the rest of the article? Even your Righty Sources have to admit it:
Among enthused voters, however, 60 percent supported Democratic candidates in comparison to 33 percent who identified with Republicans on the ballot.

While the poll recorded the first time since 2010 that fewer than half of the voters questioned felt "nervous" about the economy, a majority were still not optimistic about the country's direction.
Click to expand...

Democrats are whipped up and rarin' to vote. Rs, not so much.

How WEIRD, when "fewer than half felt 'nervous' about the economy." Could it be, it's NOT the economy, stupid? They're still "not optimistic about the country's direction" despite their supposed stock portfolios and 401ks, even according to Faux News.

But you tell yourself what you need to, Dawnie. Do you need a blanket and a binkie? Here, we'll tuck you in in front of Sean Hannity all night.


DawnODay said:
Exactly my thoughts. Of course, if Walker loses, I'll eat my share of crow, but bear in mind, evidence of any blue tsunami is fading, e.g.,

Democratic contenders held a five percentage-point advantage ahead of the 2018 midterms, with 46 percent of voters favoring left-leaning candidates to 41 percent preferring GOP candidates.

A similar poll placed in the field by Fox News in October revealed Democrats enjoyed a 15 percentage-point margin over Republicans (50-35 percent).​

N. Lim, Republican candidates make gains in Fox News congressional generic ballot poll, Washington Examiner (Mar. 25, 2018).


Then there is poor, sad, dan_c00000....



Wrong, as usual.

[Foxconn] production workers will be paid an average starting wage of $23.02 an hour. That amounts to $47,881 a year for full-time work. The average wage for production occupations in Wisconsin was $18.05 an hour, or $37,540 a year, as of May 2016, according to the U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics.

Full-time employees at Foxconn will average $25.90 an hour, or almost $54,000 a year.... The company will pay 100% of individual health insurance including dental and vision coverage....​

R. Romell, Foxconn to begin by hiring hundreds of assembly workers in 2018, Milwaukee Journal Sentinel (Dec. 1, 2017).

Meanwhile, remember all of those dire predictions about Foxconn never going through with the deal?

Foxconn expects to start construction on its $10-billion facility in Mount Pleasant within the next 60 days.​

C. Benson, Foxconn expected to begin construction in Mount Pleasant within next 60 days, WTMJ-TV (Mar. 25, 2018).
Click to expand...
 
Carnal_Flower said:
Lmao.

Ok, let's see. A FOX NEWS poll in the Washington Examiner. No conservative bias there, no siree.

Even so, did you read the rest of the article? Even your Righty Sources have to admit it:


Democrats are whipped up and rarin' to vote. Rs, not so much.

How WEIRD, when "fewer than half felt 'nervous' about the economy." Could it be, it's NOT the economy, stupid? They're still "not optimistic about the country's direction" despite their supposed stock portfolios and 401ks, even according to Faux News.

But you tell yourself what you need to, Dawnie. Do you need a blanket and a binkie? Here, we'll tuck you in in front of Sean Hannity all night.
Click to expand...

I did read the rest of the article; it held no surprises. That's why I wrote above "Republicans surely have a tough row to hoe nationally this November." None the less, "assuming the economy stays good, Walker should have little trouble getting reelected." Remember, this is his third election. In his second, a recall election when Democrats were extremely "whipped up and rarin' to vote," he actually won by a wider margin than in his original election. The same was true when he won reelection in 2014. Who do you think the Democrats can run in Wisconsin to beat him this year?
 
Carnal_Flower said:
Clearly it's not the economy, stupid, otherwise Donald Trump would be way more popular and Rs would be winning elections.

You know why it's not working? Because this isn't 1992 or 2008 and we didn't have a bad economy in 2016. Trump ran on a racist "We can't let a Negro take credit for fixing George Bush's Mess" Message.

Haggling over .00001 differences in unemployment is hardly like going from George Bush's collapse to Obama's turnaround.

Dems are winning on: healthcare, gun control, protecting earned benefits, and common decency--all things the Rs tossed into the garbage with their tax cuts and support of the Orange Monster?
........
Click to expand...
 
Last edited:
What were you saying?


PrincepsCyberius said:
I read that as meaning he won't stay in after serving the term he will win in November 2018. It is almost February, after all. Ryan is too conscientious a politician to wait to the last minute to withdraw from the race and leave his party scurrying for a replacement, despite what the article below suggests. If he was seriously considering not running, there would be some buzz by now with possible GOP replacements jockeying for position.

.
Click to expand...
 
dan_c00000 said:
I'm glad you brought this up because you're about to get ruined again (and this time not for a being a racist which is a shock to us all). We'll keep this simple and deal with just the traditional idea of a family (mom, dad, and kids).

There's a bit over 70,000 households in Racine county. Of those a bit over 54% are married couples. So you're "frequently" is already wrong because nearly half of the households are only one person. Could that one person be working multiple jobs? Sure, but that still proves my point Foxconn will still be offering a wage below that and that person would still wind up working additional jobs.

If you look at the data further you'll see that almost 13% of households females with no husband (another destruction of your two checks theory) and finally about 9% of households were people living alone. This goes back to my previous point: Foxconn is offering a job below what people there already have.

If we're going by past examples Foxconn isn't exactly a great place to work.

Finally, let's subtract that the state will be paying 17% of the Foxconn employee's salary. So really Foxconn is paying their employees an average of $44,716.25. That's about $9k less than the number Foxconn claims and a final complete destruction of your shitty argument.

Another bang up job by Walker.
Click to expand...

I'm puzzled by a couple of things. :confused: First, where do you get your figures? You don't show any source. Second, you are claiming that about 46%. of the households are single persons, and that seems too high. Are you counting children as households instead of members of their parents' households? Are you counting unmarried couples separate from married couples and, if so, why? Most of those couples would be receiving two paychecks.

You then go on to say almost 13% of households females with no husband (another destruction of your two checks theory) and finally about 9% of households were people living alone. Do you consider females to be people and, if you do, why don't you combine these two percentages? Most puzzling of all, though, :confused: is that you have added together 54% and 9% and 13% and seem think that accounts for everybody. What happened to the other 24%?
 
More Walker winning!

Department of Workforce Development (DWD) Secretary Ray Allen released the following statement on the state-by-state rankings released by the U.S Bureau of Labor Statistics (BLS) showing that Wisconsin’s addition of 8,900 private sector jobs in March ranked 4th nationally and 2nd in the Midwest. Additionally, the data shows that Wisconsin’s labor force participation rate of 68.7 percent ranked 5th nationally, while Wisconsin’s historically low unemployment rate of 2.9 percent was the 8th lowest nationally. Wisconsin also leads the nation in manufacturing jobs added in 2018 year-to-date.​

Dept. of Workforce Development: BLS Data: WI Ranks 4th Nationally in Private Sector Jobs Gained Over-the-Month, 1st in Manufacturing Jobs added in 2018, Wisconsin Technology Council (Apr. 23, 2018).

To be specific:

Highlights of today's state-by-state rankings include:

Wisconsin ranked 2nd in the nation in one-month construction job gains, and 1st in the Midwest
Wisconsin ranked 1st in the nation in manufacturing job gains in 2018
Wisconsin's addition of 2,100 manufacturing jobs over the month ranked 3rd nationally, and 1st in the Midwest
Wisconsin's addition of 6,800 total non-farm jobs over the month ranked 5th nationally
Wisconsin's labor force participation rate of 68.7 percent ranked 5th nationally and the 0.1 percent increase over the month ranked tied for 4th nationally
Wisconsin's addition of 8,900 private sector jobs over the month ranked 4th nationally, and 2nd in the Midwest, in terms of actual job growth and 1st in the Midwest in percent growth
Wisconsin's addition of 13,200 manufacturing jobs over the year ranked 3rd nationally, 2nd in the Midwest​

Other indicators of the state of Wisconsin's economy include:

Initial UI claims ended 2017 at their lowest level in the last 30 years.
Continuing unemployment claims ended 2017 at their lowest level since 1973.
Moody's investor Service recently upgraded the state's credit rating, nothing that "(T)he stable outlook reflects the expectation that the state will experience moderate economic growth and will continue its prudent fiscal management practices."​

BLS Data: WI Ranks 4th Nationally in Private Sector Jobs Gained Over-the-Month, 1st in Manufacturing Jobs added in 2018, Department of Workforce Development (Apr. 20, 2018).

So much for all those Democrat predictions of economic ruin from tax and spending cuts.
 
The Democrats predicted Walker's reforms would ruin Wisconsin's economy. Well...

Wisconsin's unemployment rate last month dropped to a new record low of 2.8 percent, the Wisconsin Department of Workforce Development reported Thursday....

The index broke the 2.9 percent rate set in the previous two months, which in turn was the lowest rate in Wisconsin since 1999....

Wisconsin's labor force participation rate increased to 68.9 percent, which outpaces the national rate of 62.8 percent by more than six percentage points.​

J. Schmid, Wisconsin unemployment rate drops to new record low of 2.8% in April, Milwaukee Journal Sentinal (May 17, 2018).
 
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