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Wheel Challenge - Spring Shakespearean Sonnet

The Dress

Dressmaker dressmaker make me a dress
cobalt blue silk and new lace from London
make it so pretty and sure to impress
bishop sleeves and skirts swirl with abandon

six yards double gauged with fine hand stitches
Tuck’d and pleated bodice so flattering
a dress so fine a mere glance bewitches
a blush, a look, a bit of pampering

ivory comb in my hair, broach at my neck
corset, petticoats and leather shoes too
give me your hand love, I’ll take no raincheck
dark eyes meet hazel our love will renew

darling, pray dance me ‘round the lovely park
twirl me, embrace me until it is dark
 
Thank to everyone who submitted, I know forms are a challenge to some of us.

As cascadiabound is on the West side of NA, her submission made it in under the timeline, which makes Harry the penultimate contributor. Accordingly he gets to decide where the next challenge goes.

I'm away for a week around Easter but will try to enter.
 
Piscator said:
Thank to everyone who submitted, I know forms are a challenge to some of us.

As cascadiabound is on the West side of NA, her submission made it in under the timeline, which makes Harry the penultimate contributor. Accordingly he gets to decide where the next challenge goes.

I'm away for a week around Easter but will try to enter.
Click to expand...

This was my first sonnet. It was like pulling teeth. :rolleyes:
Congratulations to Harry.
 
Where the seagulls cry

Oh where has she gone, my Lady in red
Captured by pirates, sailing fast and far
To hot exotic lands, or so tis said
Past the cries of seagulls and creaks of spars
Over vast oceans and hot foriegn suns
Rainstorms and high seas, my lonesome journey
The tars swab the decks and polish the guns
Preparing perhaps for a seaside tourney
Avoiding my glance, yea, my vengeful glare
These men whisper and wonder on their fate
My crew, bound to me, adventure we share
Anticipating the release of hate
Nay, they do not know, what is in my breast
Only my love for her, with all its zest
 
cascadiabound said:
Dressmaker dressmaker make me a dress
[...]
corset, petticoats and leather shoes too
give me your hand love, I’ll take no raincheck
dark eyes meet hazel our love will renew

darling, pray dance me ‘round the lovely park
[...]​
Click to expand...

Very nice!

Lines L1-L10 are a bit predictable, then lines L11-L14 are a bit predictable again, and the two parts are not well integrated. You may fix all this by changing just one line. It may induce some miserable people into smiling or into a smirk but don't worry, here it is:

L12: - - - and don't you dare to step on my shoe
​

Of course, you may device something better -- just get away from routine.

Once again, your sonnet is impressive.
 
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Senna Jawa said:
Very nice!

Lines L1-L10 are a bit predictable, then lines L11-L14 are a bit predictable again, and the two parts are not well integrated. You may fix all this by changing just one line. It may induce some miserable people into smiling or into a smirk but don't worry, here it is:

L12: - - - and don't you dare to step on my shoe
​

Of course, you may device something better -- just get away from routine.

Once again, your sonnet is impressive.
Click to expand...


How do you go from predictable (which my poor simple mind can't comprehend how you see anything as predictable, you got any lotto numbers?) And not well integrated to impressive?

Enlighten us professor.
 
LizVegas79 said:
Wow! You're all so good at this! :)
Click to expand...

Mrtenant said:
Hiya Liz,

Welcome aboard! I've read a bit of your work here and there. You write well. Looking forward to your creativity here. :)
Click to expand...

UnderYourSpell said:
Come and join in, you can do it too :)
Click to expand...

Hi Liz :rose:
Lovely to see you here. Give it a try. If I can write a sonnet you can write something for Harry's next challenge. I am finding just writing more makes every attempt a little easier.
Can't wait to see what you do. :)
 
Mrtenant said:
How do you go from predictable (which my poor simple mind can't comprehend how you see anything as predictable, you got any lotto numbers?) And not well integrated to impressive?
Click to expand...

Poetry has its scope. There is a lot of room in poetry.

Enlighten us professor.
Click to expand...

(I am just a retarded professor :) ). I'll answer your questions soon.
 
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cascadiabound said:
I rather like the original line
Click to expand...

A soldier's wisdom phrase (aphorism):

one guy likes Chopin,
another guy likes it when his feet stink.​

I don't care for the hectoring feeling of your suggested replacement.
Click to expand...

You sound logically confused -- my fault, I guess.

The possible hectoring was just a little side insert which had nothing to do with my suggestion; My "replacement" is about poetry, not about miserable smirking guys who don't know better -- poetry is not about smirking.
 
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Mrtenant said:
How do you go from predictable (which my poor simple mind can't comprehend how you see anything as predictable, you got any lotto numbers?) And not well integrated to impressive?

Enlighten us professor.
Click to expand...

The cascadiabound sonnet's language is on a high level -- rich, stylish, sophisticated and still natural. This language is also consistent with one minor exception. Actually, inhomogeneity can be often very welcome, but an isolated phrase "I’ll take no raincheck" sticks out and feels to me uncomfortable -- as it is now, it belongs to a different story.


The sonnet's rhymes are very nice. An important, if not the main quality of rhymes, is their unpredictability (for the predictability -- see Frost). In particular, the so-called grammatical rhymes are often too trivial. The other consideration, common to other poetic devices, is the distance between the two involved elements; in the case of rhymes it's simple, the larger the distance the better (granted that otherwise, the text makes sense) Here is the list of the sonnet's rhymes:

  • L1+L3: a dress ---- impress (a noun vs a verb);
  • L2+L4: London ---- abandon (huge distance; specific London and abstract noun abandon which to me sounds almost like a verb or even an adjective);
  • L5+L7:stiches ---- bewitches (a plural noun vs a singular verb);
  • L6+L7:flattering ---- pampering (oh, well... :), it's ok)
  • L9-L11:at my neck ---- no raincheck (reasonable distance, 1 negation adds to variety);
  • L10-L12:shoes too ---- renew (an adverb vs a verb);
  • L13-L14:park ---- dark (a noun vs an adjective)
It's far from common to have such rhymes' high quality.


Remark: At a very early Internet year there was an Indian poet on rec.arts.poems whose rhymes were nothing but "...ing". We liked his poetry, he was good. The art is about selecting certain directions and going there to an extreme, it's about perfectness within the chosen domain.

Remark: I've mentioned distance. In the case of rhymes, it's simple. The distance is even more important in the case of simile, metaphor, juxtaposition, and kenning. This time the situation in the mentioned four instances is more involved. The distance cannot be forced, one should never manhandle the poetry. The distance should be impressive but the text must be instantly convincing. The reader should feel AHA! rather than feeling impressed by the author's inventiveness and intelligence (then it's fake).

=======

I have to stop now. I may continue later (or not).
 
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Senna Jawa said:
The cascadiabound sonnet's language is on a high level -- rich, stylish, sophisticated and still natural. This language is also consistent with one minor exception. Actually, inhomogeneity can be often very welcome, but an isolated phrase "I’ll take no raincheck" sticks out and feels to me uncomfortable -- as it is now, it belongs to a different story.


The sonnet's rhymes are very nice. An important, if not the main quality of rhymes, is their unpredictability (for the predictability -- see Frost). In particular, the so-called grammatical rhymes are often too trivial. The other consideration, common to other poetic devices, is the distance between the two involved elements; in the case of rhymes it's simple, the larger the distance the better (granted that otherwise, the text makes sense) Here is the list of the sonnet's rhymes:

  • L1+L3: a dress ---- impress (a noun vs a verb);
  • L2+L4: London ---- abandon (huge distance; specific London and abstract noun abandon which to me sound almost like a verb or even an adjective;
  • L5+L7:stiches ---- bewitches (a plural noun vs a singular verb);
  • L6+L7:flattering ---- pampering (oh, well... :), it's ok)
  • L9-L11:at my neck ---- no raincheck (reasonable distance, 1 negation adds to variety);
  • L10-L12:shoes too ---- renew (an adverb vs a verb);
  • L13-L14:park ---- dark (a noun vs an adjective)
It's far from common to have such rhymes' high quality.


Remark: At a very early Internet year there was an Indian poet on rec.arts.poems whose rhymes were nothing but "...ing". We liked his poetry, he was good. The art is about selecting certain directions and going there to an extreme, it's about perfectness within the chosen domain.

Remark: I've mentioned distance. In the case of rhymes, it's simple. The distance is even more important in the case of simile, metaphor, juxtaposition, and kenning. This time the situation in the mentioned four instances is more involved. The distance cannot be forced, one should never manhandle the poetry. The distance should be impressive but the text must be instantly convincing. The reader should feel AHA! rather than feeling impressed by the author's inventiveness and intelligence (then it's fake).

=======

I have to stop now. I may continue later (or not).
Click to expand...


Clearly this assessment elaborates on your impressed postion (entirely subjective imo). How does that support your other stated impression of it being predictable?

(I wasn't aware that any of these challenge poems were free-for-all open critique as well? Typically, isn't that done as a courtesy upon request or invitation from the author?)
 
Mrtenant said:
entirely subjective imo
Click to expand...

Mrtenant, you're out of your mind, you talk like that hypocritical faked PF&D aunt :)

The sonnet's language, it's vocabulary, etc. -- all this is OBJECTIVE. I thought that these FACTS are obvious but I can go into details. Anyway, just for the starters, you don't see any curse 4-letter words here, and this is objective too. Do I need to go on or do you see now that the quality of the language of this sonnet is an OBJECTIVE matter, not subjective?

The issue of rhymes is OBJECTIVE. The distinction between grammatical and non-grammatical rhymes is OBJECTIVE. The notion of the distance is not 100% precise but it is still totally OBJECTIVE. (Objective doesn't have to mean 100% precise).

ETC.!!!

I wasn't aware that any of these challenge poems were free-for-all open critique as well? Typically, isn't that done as a courtesy upon request or invitation from the author?
Click to expand...

I don't know what this your statement is doing in this thread and why do you feel its necessity but anyway, cascadiabound may redirect the eventual continuation of this discussion to a new thread. Let me know (no action will mean no action).
 
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Senna Jawa said:
Mrtenant, you're out of your mind, you talk like that hypocritical faked PF&D aunt :)

The sonnet's language, it's vocabulary, etc. -- all this is OBJECTIVE. I thought that these FACTS are obvious but I can go into details. Anyway, just for the starters, you don't see any curse 4-letter words here, and this is objective too. Do I need to go on or do you see now that the quality of the language of this sonnet is an OBJECTIVE matter, not subjective?

The issue of rhymes is OBJECTIVE. The distinction between grammatical and non-grammatical rhymes is OBJECTIVE. The notion of the distance is not 100% precise but it is still totally OBJECTIVE. (Objective doesn't have to mean 100% precise).

ETC.!!!




I don't know what this your statement is doing in this thread and why do you feel its necessity but anyway, cascadiabound may redirect the eventual continuation of this discussion to a new thread. Let me know (no action will mean no action).
Click to expand...



Out of mind eh? Been called worse. I wouldn't get all butthurt about it though.

The subjective is you as the person reading it and your subjective opinion. Not the piece itself. You do understand that, right? Someone has a different opinion. (I know, its wrong, yours is the only one that counts)

Whatever action are you going on about?
 
Mrtenant said:
The subjective is you as the person reading it and your subjective opinion.
Click to expand...

This is some shambo-mambo rumbling. You're not supposed to talk about me at all, this PF&D is not a psycho-garbage-analyses group (or is it?!) -- stick to Poetry.

Not the piece itself. You do understand that, right? Someone has a different opinion. (I know, its wrong, yours is the only one that counts)

Whatever action are you going on about?
Click to expand...

I state FACTS. Others guys have OPINIONS (ugh!). I am not into opinions. I deal with the FACTS.

You say "You do understand that, right?" -- Oh, how a nice person you-Mrtenant are right now -- incredible! and you're such a super-expert on understanding, wow!

Perhaps, Mrtenants, you can quit making your own subjective opinions and give us a glimpse at your teensy-tinsy oh-so-superb super-understanding.
 
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Senna Jawa said:
This is some shambo-mambo rumbling. You're not supposed to talk about me at all, this PF&D is not a psycho-garbage-analyses group (or is it?!) -- stick to Poetry.



I state FACTS. Others guys have OPINIONS (ugh!). I am not into opinions. I deal with the FACTS.

You say "You do understand that, right?" -- Oh, how a nice person you-Mrtenant are right now -- incredible! and you're such a super-expert on understanding, wow!

Perhaps, Mrtenants, you can quit making your own subjective opinions and give us a glimpse at your teensy-tinsy oh-so-superb super-understanding.
Click to expand...

You are amazing. Thank you for sharing.

My opinion, ....simple, I love the poem. The more I read it, the more I love it. It's written by a real flesh and blood human being. Shows progression from previous efforts of several different styles of poetry and of course, effort. Looking forward to seeing more. I love poems with all their faults. Sometimes I can't say precisely what's off about anything, ultimately though, it's a work of her own creation. That I love. I see growth, design, effort, attention to detail, and craft. I wouldn't change a thing. I am humbled by her choice to share her sense of art with me, with us. Therein is beauty. These, are facts laced with opinion. I'll say no more.
 
Btw

cascadiabound said:
Dressmaker dressmaker make me a dress
cobalt blue silk and new lace from London
make it so pretty and sure to impress
bishop sleeves and skirts swirl with abandon

six yards double gauged with fine hand stitches
Tuck’d and pleated bodice so flattering
a dress so fine a mere glance bewitches
a blush, a look, a bit of pampering

ivory comb in my hair, broach at my neck
corset, petticoats and leather shoes too
give me your hand love, I’ll take no raincheck
dark eyes meet hazel our love will renew

darling, pray dance me ‘round the lovely park
twirl me, embrace me until it is dark
Click to expand...
..
Thematically I think this poem is brilliant.
Welcome to the ranks of Sonneteers, lovely
:)
 
accents and feet

HarryHill said:
..
Thematically I think this poem [by cascadiabound] is brilliant.
Click to expand...

Thematically -- meaning a sonnet. I wish that you or another expert, in this or in a new thread, would cover the rhythmic aspect, all these sonnet accents and feet. One could illustrate such an essay on either classic sonnets or some from Literotica.
 
Thematically meaning the subject thread that runs through it. Form or free verse matter not on that category.

Not interested in smelly iambic feet. pass :)

eta: Anyone who considers me an expert in any subject should get out more.
 
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