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I said.... (Dialogue Tags)

Every time I read a technical thread like this I remember what an unskilled amateur hack I am, lol!
I love dialogue tags and use whatever is needed at the time from, she said to he enunciated in staccato. I like the animal sounds best, (squeaked, squealed, purred growled etc) for sex scenes. But the weather is good too, whispered on a breeze, rumbled or thundered.
Each to their own as always, :D
 
xelliebabex said:
Every time I read a technical thread like this I remember what an unskilled amateur hack I am, lol!
I love dialogue tags and use whatever is needed at the time from, she said to he enunciated in staccato. I like the animal sounds best, (squeaked, squealed, purred growled etc) for sex scenes. But the weather is good too, whispered on a breeze, rumbled or thundered.
Each to their own as always, :D
Click to expand...

Don't feel that way. Like a lot of things lately, we tend to get all wrapped up in the mechanics, not the art. Do what feels best for you. Sure, there are some basics like grammar and spelling but IMO, this topic is more of a stylistic issue, not hard and fast rules.

I agree with you. I don't see anything wrong with "squeaked, squealed, purred growled etc." if it makes sense in the context of the story.
 
Oblimo said:
Oh, no it wasn’t.

In my college days, it was a party game to read The Eye of Argon aloud, as seriously as you could, and when you laughed, you lost, and it was the next player’s turn.

As I recall, I was the only one in my group of friends that could declaim the “pendulous breasts” line without breaking character. I was doomed to write porn, I suppose.
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I checked out The Eye of Argon online yesterday after reading the comment about it on this thread. Good lord, it's bad. I do allow for the fact the author was 16, but even so, it's dreadful. It's useful as a primer on what not to do.

Some samples of its dialogue tags, with my response to each in brackets:

"This alcove must also be used by Agaphim as a torture chamber. I wonder how many of his enemies have disappeared into these haunts never to be heard from again," pondered the hulking brute. [Do brutes ponder? I wouldn't think of that as something a brute would do]

"Before me, sirrah! Before me as always! Ha, Ha Ha, Haaaa...", nobly cackled. [Aside from the fact that the tag omits the identity of the speaker, what is a noble cackle?]

"Be silent; I can hear footfalls approaching through the tunnel;" growled Grignr in a hushed tone. [aren't growling and speaking in a hushed tone mutually exclusive? Growling is vocalized and speaking in a hushed tone is not]

"All that you hear are the horses corraled at the far end of the tunnel. That is a further sign that we are nearing our goal." She stated! [yes, he really did follow the word "stated" with an exclamation mark, while the dialogue text itself has none.]

"I had to do it ... it was Agaphim ... I had to, " she exclaimed! [she didn't just exclaim. She exclaimed!]

Carthena wound her arms about her protectors neck, mumbling, "Kill it! Kill!" While her entire body trembled. [If you really wanted to impress upon someone the urgent need to kill something, would you mumble?]
 
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xelliebabex said:
Every time I read a technical thread like this I remember what an unskilled amateur hack I am, lol!
I love dialogue tags and use whatever is needed at the time from, she said to he enunciated in staccato. I like the animal sounds best, (squeaked, squealed, purred growled etc) for sex scenes. But the weather is good too, whispered on a breeze, rumbled or thundered.
Each to their own as always, :D
Click to expand...

Literotica readers are, on the whole, pretty easy-going about following grammar rules and style conventions, so it's a great place to spread your stylistic wings and do what you like.
 
Oblimo said:
I keep telling myself I need to learn how to work within the rules before I can start breaking them to effect.
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Bestselling authors giving writing tips aren't setting any rules. This isn't a "rules" issue.
 
KeithD said:
Bestselling authors giving writing tips aren't setting any rules. This isn't a "rules" issue.
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Oh, I didn’t mean to imply Leonard, or anybody really, is an authority on what constitutes good art. And I should not have written “rules,” as that is not really what I meant.

Maybe “techniques” is a better term?
 
Oblimo said:
Oh, I didn’t mean to imply Leonard, or anybody really, is an authority on what constitutes good art. And I should not have written “rules,” as that is not really what I meant.

Maybe “techniques” is a better term?
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I didn't take your comment to suggest you're a rule stickler. I think your general point is a good one -- if as a writer you've really mastered the rules/conventions/whatever you want to call them of grammar, diction, style, punctuation, etc., you are going to be in a better position to deviate from them with good effect. This is something I definitely believe.
 
SimonDoom said:
I checked out The Eye of Argon online yesterday after reading the comment about it on this thread. Good lord, it's bad. I do allow for the fact the author was 16, but even so, it's dreadful. It's useful as a primer on what not to do.

Some samples of its dialogue tags, with my response to each in brackets:

"This alcove must also be used by Agaphim as a torture chamber. I wonder how many of his enemies have disappeared into these haunts never to be heard from again," pondered the hulking brute. [Do brutes ponder? I wouldn't think of that as something a brute would do]

"Before me, sirrah! Before me as always! Ha, Ha Ha, Haaaa...", nobly cackled. [Aside from the fact that the tag omits the identity of the speaker, what is a noble cackle?]

"Be silent; I can hear footfalls approaching through the tunnel;" growled Grignr in a hushed tone. [aren't growling and speaking in a hushed tone mutually exclusive? Growling is vocalized and speaking in a hushed tone is not]

"All that you hear are the horses corraled at the far end of the tunnel. That is a further sign that we are nearing our goal." She stated! [yes, he really did follow the word "stated" with an exclamation mark, while the dialogue text itself has none.]

"I had to do it ... it was Agaphim ... I had to, " she exclaimed! [she didn't just exclaim. She exclaimed!]

Carthena wound her arms about her protectors neck, mumbling, "Kill it! Kill!" While her entire body trembled. [If you really wanted to impress upon someone the urgent need to kill something, would you mumble?]
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That reads lik G A Henty
 
Some of the common dialogue tags I use beyond I say/said:

I ask
I answer
I reply
I remind
I suggest
I agree
I explain
I interrupt
I whisper
I holler
I suggest
I offer

I tend to use a great deal more to mix things up, but I shy away from using animalistic tags: growl, snarl, roar, chirp, etc.

Now, if a character is singing along with a song, I use I sing or something to that effect.

Still, there is a lot of great input on this thread to take into consideration. In the end, I will continue to use dialogue tags because I dislike the the repetitious use of I say/I said and they work for me within the stories I’m telling.🌹Kant👠👠👠
 
Says Pooh, says he

When do you like to put the dialogue tag before the dialogue, rather than the more typical afterward? Any pattern? I tend to do it in “shit just got real” moments for some reason.
 
Oblimo said:
When do you like to put the dialogue tag before the dialogue, rather than the more typical afterward? Any pattern? I tend to do it in “shit just got real” moments for some reason.
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For me, putting the tag before the speech makes most sense when the words following are strongly modified by how they are intended as opposed to the direct meaning of the words themselves.

He tried to insult me: "Intelligent, huh?"

vs

"Intelligent, huh?" He tried to insult me.

The first comes across stronger, I think, the second is lighter, more brushed over. There even might be more general emphasis shift.
 
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Oblimo said:
When do you like to put the dialogue tag before the dialogue, rather than the more typical afterward? Any pattern? I tend to do it in “shit just got real” moments for some reason.
Click to expand...

I'll put the tag before, in the middle of, or after a quote, depending on how I want it to flow. I'll even write them in a way that you might think of as splitting a complicated tag around a short quotation.

"Stephen looked over the rim of his coffee cup. 'That's a terrible example,' he said."

instead of

"Stephen looked over the rim of his coffee cup and said, 'That's a terrible example.'"
 
NotWise said:
I'll put the tag before, in the middle of, or after a quote, depending on how I want it to flow.
Click to expand...

Me too, and when I do it, I haven't given much thought to why I did it that way. I'm not thinking much in terms of "rules" or adverbs/adjectives when I write. I'm just recording as I tell a story.
 
NotWise said:
I'll put the tag before, in the middle of, or after a quote, depending on how I want it to flow. I'll even write them in a way that you might think of as splitting a complicated tag around a short quotation.

"Stephen looked over the rim of his coffee cup. 'That's a terrible example,' he said."

instead of

"Stephen looked over the rim of his coffee cup and said, 'That's a terrible example.'"
Click to expand...

I’ve placed them every which way. I think of it in terms of rhythm and, as you said, flow, not just within that sentence and paragraph, but overall. After some very helpful critique early on, I have become much more mindful of repetitious construction.
 
Kantarii said:
I only use say, reply, ask, answer (the basics) when I want the dialogue to be neutral. How would you know one or the other people talking is actually lying to the other? Or trying to be sarcastic?
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Yeah, right. There's no way a reader could possibly tell if a statement is sarcastic unless the author spells it out in a dialogue tag. Uh-huh. Sarcasm can't possibly be conveyed in any other way. Sure.

LOL.

There may be times when it is necessary to use a word other than the basics, to convey information such as "lied" or "giggled," but in most cases, the basics do great, and authors going beyond them are being pretentious. There is never any need whatsoever for "proferred," "enunciated," "queried," etc.

And I wouldn't consider "answered" one of the basics, either. Usually it's use is redundant since it should be clear from the context whether the line is an answer. Example:

"Would you like a blowjob?"
"Um, okay."

We don't need to be informed the second line is an answer.
 
electric1 said:
Yeah, right. There's no way a reader could possibly tell if a statement is sarcastic unless the author spells it out in a dialogue tag. Uh-huh. Sarcasm can't possibly be conveyed in any other way. Sure.

LOL.

There may be times when it is necessary to use a word other than the basics, to convey information such as "lied" or "giggled," but in most cases, the basics do great, and authors going beyond them are being pretentious. There is never any need whatsoever for "proferred," "enunciated," "queried," etc.

And I wouldn't consider "answered" one of the basics, either. Usually it's use is redundant since it should be clear from the context whether the line is an answer. Example:

"Would you like a blowjob?"
"Um, okay."

We don't need to be informed the second line is an answer.
Click to expand...

Uh -Uh- how about, “Sure,” I replied, laughing my ass off at the notion.
🌹Kant👠👠👠
 
electric1 said:
Yeah, right. There's no way a reader could possibly tell if a statement is sarcastic unless the author spells it out in a dialogue tag. Uh-huh. Sarcasm can't possibly be conveyed in any other way. Sure.

LOL.

There may be times when it is necessary to use a word other than the basics, to convey information such as "lied" or "giggled," but in most cases, the basics do great, and authors going beyond them are being pretentious. There is never any need whatsoever for "proferred," "enunciated," "queried," etc.

And I wouldn't consider "answered" one of the basics, either. Usually it's use is redundant since it should be clear from the context whether the line is an answer. Example:

"Would you like a blowjob?"
"Um, okay."

We don't need to be informed the second line is an answer.
Click to expand...

That probably isn't the reason a slug is there. It's probably there because the speaker needs to be identified for clarity. If you have that need, then you need a verb to go with it. In the example you give, if there are three of them, and Teresa is offering a blowjob, the reader needs to know if she's offering it to Dick or Harry. So an identifier slug is needed on one of those quotes. There's not enough context to decide which one.
 
KeithD said:
Me too, and when I do it, I haven't given much thought to why I did it that way. I'm not thinking much in terms of "rules" or adverbs/adjectives when I write. I'm just recording as I tell a story.
Click to expand...

Was it like that when you started, too? Lucky bastard. :heart:
 
Oblimo said:
That is a terrible example, as you don’t need the dialogue tag at all. :)
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It does need the tag. Stephen is in a conversation with someone, and whole meaning of the little example changes if it's:

"Stephen looked over the rim of his coffee cup. 'That's a terrible example,' she said."

If the tag is left off, then (depending on the rest of the context) the reader might not know who said what.
 
Oblimo said:
Was it like that when you started, too? Lucky bastard. :heart:
Click to expand...

I had decades of writing news agency copy and government analysis for pay before turning to fiction. What I was writing in the way of fiction when I started and how I write it hasn't changed in the twenty-six years I've been writing it, though--always for (minimal) pay. Most of what I post here has already had a life in the marketplace and I didn't beat it to death before sending it off to be published. I see the lengths to which some people here agonize over writing and rules and techniques and the examples of best-selling authors and reader's ratings and comments and many review iterations over months and I just ask myself why they don't try golf or bowling instead. I write for the enjoyment and surprise and discovery of it.
 
NotWise said:
It does need the tag. Stephen is in a conversation with someone, and whole meaning of the little example changes if it's:

"Stephen looked over the rim of his coffee cup. 'That's a terrible example,' she said."
Click to expand...

Stephen is an interesting girl’s name. Wouldn’t you make that two paragraphs?

If the tag is left off, then (depending on the rest of the context) the reader might not know who said what.
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Well...

“How’s this?” Zoe asked, holding up a blue origami pinwheel.

Stephen looked over the rim of his coffee cup. “That’s a terrible example.”

Zoe clicked her tongue and flicked the pinwheel into the wastebasket at her feet.

Doesn’t that work? I guess I was envisioning a context like this when I read your terrible example the first time.
 
“How’s this?” Zoe asked, holding up a pair of blue balls.

Stephen looked over the rim of his asshole. “That’s a terrible example.”

Zoe clicked her tongue and flicked her clit into the wastebasket at her feet.

Sorry, couldn't resist...
 
Over the past couple of years, I've noticed another way that some well known authors are handling dialog. I've seen Grisham do it and here's an extract from the latest Sandford novel, 'Twisted Prey'.

Bob: “I don’t think we should mess with either Parrish or Grant—not yet. For our sake. Listen, we’re messing with the U.S. Senate here. If that became public, we could lose our jobs.”
Lucas: “But she’s nuts, we need to get at her...”
and
Lucas: “Are your parents home?”
Girl: “Who wants to know?”

So just the character's first name and a colon. They don't do it a lot -- just here and there, interspersed with the traditional 'said'. Skimmed a couple of chapters, and couldn't find anything other than 'said'.
 
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