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Americans equally divided over Trump impeachment: Poll

dan_c00000 said:
It is. Ruined.
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Um... I take it you did not look at the analytics of that April 2017 poll. The sampling was even more skewed to over-represent Democrats than my examples above.

In the future, unless you want to be simply disregarded, I would suggest that you make sure the links you provide and things you site actually support your position and not, as here, that of the person you're debating.


dan_c00000 said:
I can misrepresent the size of the debt too. Interesting how you lied about Obamacare and saying polls were manipulated and then you go and use a manipulated graph. Double ruined.

history_0.gif
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How did I "misrepresent the size of the debt"? Seriously, I don't get your point. It's just a matter of the scale in the X- & Y- axes of the graphs. I trust you know how to read and interpret graphs. I could understand your point were I using logarithmic scaled graphs, but mine, like yours, are straight arithmetic scales, they just cover different intervals. If you are going to use "stock answers," make sure they fit the facts.

Even if the graphs were somehow deceptive, and I still do not see how they could be, I also gave the numbers:

DawnODay said:
You're right, the Obama economy was a disaster. True, he inherited economic problems after the 2008 real estate crash, but he made the resulting recession longer and deeper than necessary by deficit spending and over-regulation of the economy.

Let's consider a few numbers:

Under Obama:

Lowest labor participation rate since women actively entered the main workforce in the early 1970s.

Record number of people on "Food Stamps."

Worst of all: He almost doubled the Federal deficit from just over $11 trillion to almost $19 trillion in just one administration.​
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I assume you don't dispute those numbers.

This is worrisome because of the ratio of the Federal debt to the USA's GDP:

fredgraph.png


From 2009 to 2016, the USA went from a ~65% debt to GDP ratio to a ~105% debt to GDP ratio. Anything over ~100%, if it persists, and you're looking at Third World economic fundamentals.
 
Boxlicker101 said:
DawnODay said:
It's not. Are you familiar with the sometimes legitimate ways pollsters manipulate the sampling and how it can be abused? Every poll suggesting increased approval in Obamacare has over-sampled Democrats, some even worse than this poll on impeachment (I like using pictures), which is what this thread is primarily about:


​

As for the polls on Obamacare:


Those polls are fake news but, please, keep believing them, just like you believed all the polls about Hillary's popularity last autumn. The more deluded you are, the less harm you can do.




Is this actually happening? Where? For that matter, where is your evidence that it is happening?

What makes you think most of them are on Obamacare plans, rather than plans provided by employers?

I'll grant you, though, if it is happening, then you're right, they are fools.




Really? It's been known for months now that those were not spontaneous uprisings by "the masses," but protests organized by Democrats and funded by Democrat donors. (Note that the underlines are not just for emphasis, but are links to sources.)




Good question. I wish they would. The main fix should be to take away most of the unnecessary mandated coverage areas that have driven up premiums and deductibles. They should also take down the legal barriers to interstate commerce in insurance.




Because the most economically vulnerable people went bankrupt following the 2008 Great Recession and the series of lesser recessions that followed.




If you read the CBO report on this, you would find that most of those 30 million would not "lose" coverage, they would choose to not buy it, as they are forced to do now under Obamacare.

It's this crazy little thing we like to call: FREEDOM.




You're right, the Obama economy was a disaster. True, he inherited economic problems after the 2008 real estate crash, but he made the resulting recession longer and deeper than necessary by deficit spending and over-regulation of the economy.

Let's consider a few numbers:

Under Obama:

Lowest labor participation rate since women actively entered the main workforce in the early 1970s.

Record number of people on "Food Stamps."

Worst of all: He almost doubled the Federal deficit from just over $11 trillion to almost $19 trillion in just one administration.​

Bush-Obama-Debt.jpg


Or, what really shows it well:

national-debt-rises-666-trillion-under-obama.jpg


This debt will cause us, or our children, real problem some day.

Now, the Obama years were not the complete disaster a lot of his critics suggest. If they had been, then we would not have had the recovery of the last six months. On the other hand, while it is often the case that the prior Administration can take the credit or blame for what occurs in the early months of its successor, I don't think we can underestimate the psychological effect on the economy when going from a essentially anti-business administration to a pro-business administration.

We saw this in Wisconsin. Our prior governor, Jim Doyle, was very anti-business and his taxing and spending had Wisconsin going the way of Illinois. Even after ill-advisedly and in one case illegally raiding other funds to try to balance his budget, he left Scott Walker with a > $3 billion deficit when Walker became governor. By various business and citizen friendly policies, Walker turned the state around. He not only balanced the budget every year, he produced a surplus, all while lowering taxes. When Doyle was Governor, our schools had to lay off teachers because they were so poorly funded, under Walker, teacher hiring is up, as is school funding. Businesses were fleeing Wisconsin under Doyle, they are flocking here under Walker.

Just today:

poster_a1f1996bff53436d9847babfba37409e_63425038_ver1.0_640_480.jpg


Trump is clearly effecting the overall economy the same way. Business-people believe that they will face less government interference and lower taxes, so they have started investing again. That is why almost a million new jobs have arisen in the past six months. Remember that historically low labor participation rate under Obama? Since Trump became president, it has grown to the highest its been in three decades. Trump deserves much of the credit for this, simply by being pro-business and encouraging business to grow in the USA again.


.
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I have heard there is also a lot of new investment in Kenosha County.
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O, gosh yes, featuring, but certainly not limited to, two (count`em, TWO!) huge Amazon distribution warehouses.

Now, to be honest, we can't give Scott Walker all the credit for this. What the Democrats have done to the business climate in Illinois has a lot to do with why Kenosha County, which is the Wisconsin county closest to Chicago, is booming. On the other hand, had Jim Doyle remained as governor, as I explained above, Wisconsin would have probably become the economic basket case the Democrats have made Illinois.
 
How do you explain than a blue state like Minnesota doing better than Wisconsin?

All your other links are meaningless and provide literally no evidence of any claim you make. Furthermore, simple knowledge of history, like the TARP program, was voted for under Bush but much of the bailout money was distributed under Obama.

If I were you I'd really consider not posting because your asshole is going to wind up a complete disaster area.
 
dan_c00000 said:
....

If I were you I'd really consider not posting because your asshole is going to wind up a complete disaster area.
Click to expand...

Dan, the lady gave you straightforward arguments supported by many citations and you respond with vulgarities toward her.

Do you always treat women this way?

We've already seen elsewhere that you're a coward lacking the courage of your convictions.

Let's see: You're a coward who abuses women. You really aren't much of a man, are you?
 
dan_c00000 said:
How do you explain than a blue state like Minnesota doing better than Wisconsin?

All your other links are meaningless and provide literally no evidence of any claim you make. Furthermore, simple knowledge of history, like the TARP program, was voted for under Bush but much of the bailout money was distributed under Obama.

If I were you I'd really consider not posting because your asshole is going to wind up a complete disaster area.
Click to expand...

This link doesn't mean much, because it is strictly the biased opinion of the writer, with no statistics to support his claims. The figures he includes are on such things as population, which have virtualyl nothing to do with relative prosperity. He also makes an inane statement, saying migration from one state to another is good for the destination state. In some individual instances it might be, but it is well known that the mass migration from one area of the US to another has always been of impoverished and/dispossessed people looking for a better life. Somebody who is prospering in state A is almost certainly going to stay there, rather than pulling up stakes and moving to State B.

Here are some facts that have more meaning than the ones presented: https://www.bls.gov/eag/eag.wi.htm

https://www.bls.gov/regions/midwest/minnesota.htm#eag

In addition to the lower unemployment rate in WI, the state is improving its economy by changes that are described in previous posts.
 
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dan_c00000 said:
How do you explain than a blue state like Minnesota doing better than Wisconsin?

All your other links are meaningless and provide literally no evidence of any claim you make. Furthermore, simple knowledge of history, like the TARP program, was voted for under Bush but much of the bailout money was distributed under Obama.

If I were you I'd really consider not posting because your asshole is going to wind up a complete disaster area.
Click to expand...

Before you give advice on posting, you should make sure you haven't made a fool of yourself.

The article to which you link above is well over two years old, from May 8, 2015.

Now look what has happened since:

Study finds Minnesota’s economy ‘average’ – with a dim future (August 15, 2016).

This article noted:

attachment.php

It goes on to point out that agencies of Minnesota Governor Mark Dayton's own administration "also predict below-average economic performance."

attachment.php

So much for the "Minnesota Miracle."

Also, remember that Wisconsin's prior governor, Democrat Jim Doyle, left behind for Scott Walker a >$3 billion deficit, even after Doyle and the Democrat controlled legislature ill-advisedly raided the state's allocated transportation fund (we're still paying for that) and illegally stole from a trust fund established to help victims of medical malpractice (how cruel)! The trust fund money the Democrats stole had to be paid back during the early years of the Walker administration. In other words, the Republicans had to dig themselves out of a nearly $4 billion dollar hole left by their Democrat immediate predecessors, so if it has taken a few years to catch up, that is certainly understandable.

Thus, in regard to your argument based on Minnesota (I notice how you just ignore the situations the Democrats have caused in California and Illinois), as you would say: "Ruined."


.



PrincepsCyberius said:
Dan, the lady gave you straightforward arguments supported by many citations and you respond with vulgarities toward her.

Do you always treat women this way?

We've already seen elsewhere that you're a coward lacking the courage of your convictions.

Let's see: You're a coward who abuses women. You really aren't much of a man, are you?
Click to expand...

It is very sweet and chivalric for you to come to my defense like that, sir, but really unnecessary. I'm a big girl and, as you can see above, have no trouble "ruining" Dan and destroying his lame arguments and invalid or out-of-date claims on my own.


.
 

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I take one glance at your posts and roll my eyes.

You've been entirely discredited with your George Soros and Indivisible Conspiracy claims.

Translation: I'm an idiot. Ignore me.

DawnODay said:
Before you give advice on posting, you should make sure you haven't made a fool of yourself.

The article to which you link above is well over two years old, from May 8, 2015.

Now look what has happened since:

Study finds Minnesota’s economy ‘average’ – with a dim future (August 15, 2016).

This article noted:

attachment.php

It goes on to point out that agencies of Minnesota Governor Mark Dayton's own administration "also predict below-average economic performance."

attachment.php

So much for the "Minnesota Miracle."

Also, remember that Wisconsin's prior governor, Democrat Jim Doyle, left behind for Scott Walker a >$3 billion deficit, even after Doyle and the Democrat controlled legislature ill-advisedly raided the state's allocated transportation fund (we're still paying for that) and illegally stole from a trust fund established to help victims of medical malpractice (how cruel)! The trust fund money the Democrats stole had to be paid back during the early years of the Walker administration. In other words, the Republicans had to dig themselves out of a nearly $4 billion dollar hole left by their Democrat immediate predecessors, so if it has taken a few years to catch up, that is certainly understandable.

Thus, in regard to your argument based on Minnesota (I notice how you just ignore the situations the Democrats have caused in California and Illinois), as you would say: "Ruined."


.





It is very sweet and chivalric for you to come to my defense like that, sir, but really unnecessary. I'm a big girl and, as you can see above, have no trouble "ruining" Dan and destroying his lame arguments and invalid or out-of-date claims on my own.


.
Click to expand...
 
Carnal_Flower said:
I take one glance at your posts and roll my eyes.

You've been entirely discredited with your George Soros and Indivisible Conspiracy claims.

Translation: I'm an idiot. Ignore me.
Click to expand...

Ah, even if I had advanced such a conspiracy theory, which I haven't, the issue we're discussing now has nothing to do with that. My argument was based on data provided (to add insult to your injury) by your beloved Minnesota Democrats.

Translation:

I disproved your out-of-date statement with up-to-date data, and this is your way to avoid having to face your defeat.
 
a. Yes you did put forth a "Democratic" conspiracy trying to discredit the Town Halls
b. I didn't look at your crap. I have no doubt it's bogus right wing blather
c. Soros is on the line, gotta go


DawnODay said:
Ah, even if I had advanced such a conspiracy theory, which I haven't, the issue we're discussing now has nothing to do with that. My argument was based on data provided (to add insult to your injury) by your beloved Minnesota Democrats.

Translation:

I disproved your out-of-date statement with up-to-date data, and this is your way to avoid having to face your defeat.
Click to expand...
 
Carnal_Flower said:
a. Yes you did put forth a "Democratic" conspiracy trying to discredit the Town Halls
b. I didn't look at your crap. I have no doubt it's bogus right wing blather
c. Soros is on the line, gotta go
Click to expand...

If you want anyone to take you seriously, you have to get your facts right, and be able to defend your position.

a. I wrote nothing about conspiracy. I simply linked to sources reporting undisputed reports that Democrat supporters had organized and funded those town hall protests. I do not know of any serious news source that now disputes that.

b. Afraid to face the truth, eh? Please, accept this challenge: Read them and offer logical, factually based rebuttal. Otherwise, you lose and prove that what I wrote is true.

c. Tell him I said: "Hello!"
 
DawnODay said:
a. I wrote nothing about conspiracy. I simply linked to sources reporting undisputed reports that Democrat supporters had organized and funded those town hall protests. I do not know of any serious news source that now disputes that.
Click to expand...

Don't be idiotic. That's writing about conspiracy. Also, I don't know of any serious news agency that puts forth that tripe. So, what I see as a basic problem is the clap trap you accept as a serious news source.
 
sr71plt said:
Don't be idiotic. That's writing about conspiracy. Also, I don't know of any serious news agency that puts forth that tripe. So, what I see as a basic problem is the clap trap you accept as a serious news source.
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Alright, even if I grant you that (which I don't), how does it support those who cite the "Minnesota Miracle" in face of the fact that that agencies of Minnesota Governor Mark Dayton's own administration "predict below-average economic performance" for Minnesota, in contrast to Wisconsin's booming economy under Walker?
 
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DawnODay said:
Have you noticed that, when faced with facts, sr71plt just runs and hides.
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I was going to say, it's SR71....anytime anyone does anything but sing the praises of (D) his automatic response is always along the lines of



"Don't be idiotic. That's writing about conspiracy. Also, I don't know of any serious news agency that puts forth that tripe."

His idea of a serious news agency is Salon and RAW. :rolleyes:

Easily the most partisan Kool-Aid chugger since KingOreo left us.
 
The link you gave was to Indivisible, which I know all about.

I'm perfectly familiar with what Indivisible is and does, and it's simply not true to say it is either "Democratic," or that it "organized" and/or "funded" the town hall protests. Wrong, wrong, and bullshit.

I don't know of any serious news source that "disputes" that because serious, ie. Real News sources wouldn't even comment on that Fox/right wing conspiracy theory. The NY Times is not in the business of engaging with Alex Jones level crap.

Why don't you go and download the Indivisible Guide, (a), then go talk to some people who may have availed themselves of the resources available (b) and most importantly, (c) attend some Town Halls yourself and talk to people, and then get back to us.

It is UNTRUE that Democratic supporters "organized and funded those town hall protests." That is the Trump/Fox/Breitbart/Alex Jones party line, which apparently, you believe lol

Fine, go ahead and believe what you want. I don't care. But don't present it as if it's established fact, because it's not, ya freak


DawnODay said:
If you want anyone to take you seriously, you have to get your facts right, and be
No they didn't. People showed up--mostly old people, by the way. able to defend your position.

a. I wrote nothing about conspiracy. I simply linked to sources reporting undisputed reports that Democrat supporters had organized and funded those town hall protests. I do not know of any serious news source that now disputes that.

b. Afraid to face the truth, eh? Please, accept this challenge: Read them and offer logical, factually based rebuttal. Otherwise, you lose and prove that what I wrote is true.

c. Tell him I said: "Hello!"
Click to expand...
 
Boxlicker101 said:
It's not hard to find news articles, etc. from generally reliable sources about Dems. coming to GOP town halls to raise Hell, but it is hard to prove they were paid. http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-02-11/
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Box!

The Town Halls are for all the constituents of the Congress Critter, he has to represent all of them whether he likes them or not! Of fucking course there will be Democrats and Independents and probably even Greens and Libertarians. Membership of the Republican party is what ~28% of the electorate?
 
Carnal_Flower said:
The link you gave was to Indivisible, which I know all about.

I'm perfectly familiar with what Indivisible is and does, and it's simply not true to say it is either "Democratic," or that it "organized" and/or "funded" the town hall protests. Wrong, wrong, and bullshit.

I don't know of any serious news source that "disputes" that because serious, ie. Real News sources wouldn't even comment on that Fox/right wing conspiracy theory. The NY Times is not in the business of engaging with Alex Jones level crap.

Why don't you go and download the Indivisible Guide, (a), then go talk to some people who may have availed themselves of the resources available (b) and most importantly, (c) attend some Town Halls yourself and talk to people, and then get back to us.

It is UNTRUE that Democratic supporters "organized and funded those town hall protests." That is the Trump/Fox/Breitbart/Alex Jones party line, which apparently, you believe lol

Fine, go ahead and believe what you want. I don't care. But don't present it as if it's established fact, because it's not, ya freak
Click to expand...

Even if you're right about those claims being mere unsubstantiated conspiracy theory (which you're not), that had nothing to do with the Minnesota Meltdown. So you cannot use that to evade responding to this post.

You are trying to present yourself as well-informed and, if somewhat crude, intelligent. If you want to maintain that appearance, I suggest you accept my challenge: Read this post, respond to it, or admit that it's true.
 
Not true for me: once I see the town halls dismissed as democratically "funded" and whispers of "George Soros" money, I, personally, dismiss you. Don't care about this jihad of yours.


DawnODay said:
Even if you're right about those claims being mere unsubstantiated conspiracy theory (which you're not), that had nothing to do with the Minnesota Meltdown. So you cannot use that to evade responding to this post.

You are trying to present yourself as well-informed and, if somewhat crude, intelligent. If you want to maintain that appearance, I suggest you accept my challenge: Read this post, respond to it, or admit that it's true.
Click to expand...
 
Carnal_Flower said:
Not true for me: once I see the town halls dismissed as democratically "funded" and whispers of "George Soros" money, I, personally, dismiss you. Don't care about this jihad of yours.
Click to expand...

In case you missed it before:

DawnODay said:
Ah, even if I had advanced such a conspiracy theory, which I haven't, the issue we're discussing now has nothing to do with that. My argument was based on data provided (to add insult to your injury) by your beloved Minnesota Democrats.

Translation:

I disproved your out-of-date statement with up-to-date data, and this is your way to avoid having to face your defeat.
Click to expand...

Thank you, Carnal_Flower. Crushing you in this particular debate was most gratifying.

I'm now going to devote a thread to the Minnesota Meltdown. Shall I dedicate it to you?
 
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