Sex/erotic scenes - how early?

Hi everyone, new member here.

I will soon be doing the classic newbie thing of asking for feedback on my first submission. However, I'd like to canvas some opinion, even before then.

The first part of my story is approx. 5000 words (final word count around 16000). However, bar a few fleeting references, my first properly erotic scene isn't until around the 3000 word mark. I guess opinion will differ somewhat but how do people feel about reading a few thousand words of description and character development in order to be set up for the goods that follow? Or do people prefer to get some sex early? Is that the hook that keeps you engaged to then get to know the characters and appreciate the story arc?

All comment greatly appreciated!

Story dependent

It's always going to depend on what fits the story best. If you're writing about two people who haven't even met when the story begins, having them jump right into bed together early in the story might conflict with who you see these people as. Let it build up to that point, then let the first sex scene be a payoff. You just might not want to make it the ending, though.

But if you're writing about a married couple who enter into a threesome, having a sex scene between that couple by themselves early on would make more sense. It could even open the story, right?

If the writing is good, and still provides some turn-ons to the reader without outright sex, you're probably fine. Make that introductory section dull, and it won't matter when the sex starts, because the reader will have stopped reading.

Leenysman said:

It's always going to depend on what fits the story best. If you're writing about two people who haven't even met when the story begins, having them jump right into bed together early in the story might conflict with who you see these people as. Let it build up to that point, then let the first sex scene be a payoff. You just might not want to make it the ending, though.

But if you're writing about a married couple who enter into a threesome, having a sex scene between that couple by themselves early on would make more sense. It could even open the story, right?

If the writing is good, and still provides some turn-ons to the reader without outright sex, you're probably fine. Make that introductory section dull, and it won't matter when the sex starts, because the reader will have stopped reading.

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Yep, good points Leenysman, and thanks for the reply. It's going to spend on the context and the strength of the writing. I've just seen another thread on just this topic. I may have jumped the gun with posting the question but I'm new here so...

I have started a couple of stories in the middle of a sex scene and used it to introduce the players. I also have stories where the first sex didn't happen until page two.

It is whatever works for that story. The one thing I would say is please, please, PLEASE! don't start with:

My wife Sally was a sex goddess. 5' 8" tall, perfectly 100 lbs, with a 42GGG chest, 24 inch waist, and 40" beautiful bubble butt.

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There is no "right" answer to this question, because it always depends on story, context, character, motivation, etc etc. My advice would be to just write it as you want to write it - and then don't wait for the feedback, but write another story and another one.

Over time you will develop "your" style and your own preference for the "sexual pace" of your stories. Some folk won't like it, others will love it. In other words, don't try to do something the "right" way, because there is no such thing.

My stories, for example, tend to be slow burn, with little flickers of tease and glance early on, building up to something later - so a bit like yours, maybe. What it means, I think, is that the story has time to give the characters their own personality (hopefully) and the reader has time to invest in them, so when the sex arrives it has a layer of intimacy to it.

Quite of few of my stories start in the middle of a sex scene and start embedding background--but in bits--from then as well. I like that approach.

Like the others have said already, it both depends on the story and your writing style. Starting in the middle of a sex scene is fine. Introducing the characters first is fine too. Having a buildup that takes 2/3 of the first chapter can work too.

You need to keep the reader engaged, but that doesn't mean sex is your only option. As long as the story is entertaining and worth reading, it's fine if it takes a while to get to the sex. But since that is why your readers are reading your story in the first place, it might be a good idea to at least give some hints towards the sex that is to come. This can be anything: the character commenting on an attractive person they meet or see, a bit of flirting, etc. Not required, but often it might be a good idea to make the story feel like it is heading towards a sex scene, even the hints are a bit subtle. But if this doesn't fit your story then it's fine to just focus on the characters too. I would advise to have at least something sexual happening in every chapter, but since you have that I think you're fine. Just make sure the buildup isn't boring, make it entertaining.

I really appreciate the tips, thanks everyone.

Once I've submitted (assuming it gets approved) I'll pop a link into this thread and you can tell me what you think!

I would vote for making the reader wait, building up to it gradually. I think that is more erotic than banging away in the first paragraph.
See the story about church sex by invisibleman in the previous post for a good example.

Reading the comments here I know why LIT stories suck so bad.

Get something going quickly. Its like rule #2 behind show don't tell.

http://www.writersdigest.com/qp7-mi...on-fiction/start_your_fiction_off_with_a_bang
START WITH A BANG

hadruprider said:

I would vote for making the reader wait, building up to it gradually. I think that is more erotic than banging away in the first paragraph.
See the story about church sex by invisibleman in the previous post for a good example.

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But what about more complex stories that speak to transition (from one relationship to another, for example) rather than just two people going through the phases of getting into bed on the last page? I often start with sex to establish that my protagonist is open to sex (in some cases, unsatisfying sex), but it doesn't have to be the same two people as those who are having sex later.

I think some of the posters earlier have it right without this blanket one way of doing anything--it depends on the demands of the storyline. I bridle when I see a blanket approach counseled like this. Fiction is an elastic mode and it would be very, very boring if all stories fell into the same footprint.

NOIRTRASH said:

Reading the comments here I know why LIT stories suck so bad.

Get something going quickly. Its like rule #2 behind show don't tell.

http://www.writersdigest.com/qp7-mi...on-fiction/start_your_fiction_off_with_a_bang
START WITH A BANG

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Most of those on this thread said just that--get something going quickly. You don't even read the threads before pontificating about that, do you?

I think the category one places the story in kinda dictates when sex enters in the storyline. I have an erotic horror story called "My Brother's Ghost" that only had one sex scene in it (chapter 5) which was a non consent / blantant rape scene that did rather well for a 6 chapter storyline. I also have a transexual storyline "A Slut's Triangle" that I started off with a steamy sex scene (chapter 1) that is doing ok, too.

For me, it's best to write stories and not smut. There's so much more to a great story than just the sex scenes, so I use them sparingly.

Kantarii said:

I think the category one places the story in kinda dictates when sex enters in the storyline. I have an erotic horror story called "My Brother's Ghost" that only had one sex scene in it (chapter 5) which was a non consent / blantant rape scene that did rather well for a 6 chapter storyline. I also have a transexual storyline "A Slut's Triangle" that I started off with a steamy sex scene (chapter 1) that is doing ok, too.

For me, it's best to write stories and not smut. There's so much more to a great story than just the sex scenes, so I use them sparingly.

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I have to respectfully disagree that the category dictates when sex enters the storyline. You could even start a romance story with a sex scene, if it was appropriate to the story. You could also have a group sex story where it starts off with a lot of build up and tension that explains why the group sex thing happened and then continue to the fallout from the group sex scene. Even in LW there are such a wide variety of stories that it has stories that have build up and others that get right into the smut. BTW I like that word. Smut Smut Smut. I'm going to have to use it more often.

As to your last sentence: even stories can have a great deal of sex in them. Sex is not the antithesis of plot and I'm not sure why so many writers here seem to have that opinion. Sex, Violence, Love, Hate, Airplanes, Guns, Cars, they are all just props for the story. As props you can use them as much as you like or as sparingly as you like and it doesn't change whether or not the plot is strong.

Yeah, I don't think fiction has any such limits to form or structure.

Leenysman said:

If the writing is good, and still provides some turn-ons to the reader without outright sex, you're probably fine. Make that introductory section dull, and it won't matter when the sex starts, because the reader will have stopped reading.

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I agree! If it starts out dull, I'll click off in a hurry. Dullness = boring. Boring = sleep with my computer on my chest. Sleep with my computer on my chest = breaking something...and we ain't gotta go farther than that!

I often start with *some* action but it's not necessarily explicit sex. My highest-rated story has minimal explicit sex, only on the last LIT page. My next-highest have lots of hot sex starting up front. There is no rule. The dynamics of the story dictate the placement.

I'm basically just echoing what some others have already said, but here goes...

My personal feeling is that you should write what the story calls for and let the chips fall where they may. If your story is strong enough, the readers will go along for the ride. I like a long build up when I read a story, because anticipation is just as important for me. A great comic once made an observation about porn and wanting his porn to have plots, he said if he cared more about the people, then he would care more about the fucking. I tend to agree.

The story I have posted up and several that I have in the works all tend to take a long time to build up to the sex between the main characters that are the focus of the stories. What I have done with two of them is have a sexual encounter for one or the other of the main characters with a secondary character early on in the tale to hopefully tide the readers over, so to speak, while I handle my relationship building and construction of the world the story takes place in and so on.

In my first story, the main characters actually didn't have actual intercourse until almost page 70 of the book (something like page 12 or so in LE pages), and I've only had two readers complain so far about that. Overall, it was pretty well received. So, as far as I'm concerned, that proves to me that you'll have an audience if your story is worth a damn and you should write in service of the story you are trying to tell.

All that said, I do make a point of putting an author's note at the beginning of my story that warned the readers that there was going to be a long build up before the sex and that if they were looking for a quick stroke story, this might not be the one they were looking for. The hope being that they wouldn't just run for the 1 star button because there wasn't sex in the first three paragraphs. It seemed to have worked.

This is all just my opinion, of course. Take it with a grain of salt and do what works for you.

Good luck with your story!

-Anomic

Echoing others here, the length and subject matter of your story should dictate the placement of sex. Really short pieces, the 2-3 LIT page sorts, you're going to want to jump into it early.

For longer pieces, a trend I've noticed in reading some of the higher-rated stories here is making sure something sexy happens periodically to keep the reader, erm, stimulated, but saving the big sexual payoff for the end. I'm sure some people are turned off by this and feel like it's just the writer stringing them along, but readers and writers like Anomic who are going for the long game absolutely love the teasing, slow burn.

Areala-chan said:

Echoing others here, the length and subject matter of your story should dictate the placement of sex. Really short pieces, the 2-3 LIT page sorts, you're going to want to jump into it early.

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Length need not be a factor. I've had successful shorts with no explicit sex till the end -- if at all. IMHO the sex-quotient depends on if we intend to write a stroker. Is your goal to promote masturbation? A good dramatic or comedic or romantic tale of any length may do well with a little or a lot of explicit sex.

For longer pieces, a trend I've noticed in reading some of the higher-rated stories here is making sure something sexy happens periodically to keep the reader, erm, stimulated, but saving the big sexual payoff for the end. I'm sure some people are turned off by this and feel like it's just the writer stringing them along, but readers and writers like Anomic who are going for the long game absolutely love the teasing, slow burn.

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I don't see long buildups as 'teasing' -- unlike cliffhangers. I *have* done teases where expected sex doesn't happen, ha ha. And a teasing cliffhanger gets me off the hook for resolving problems. The next chapter starts with, "After I escaped the dilemma, I went on to..." and merely finesses the problem.

Do I want to keep readers stimulated? Depends on whether it's a stroker or a fuller story. I usually write sex on every page. But a good narrative may only need explicit sex as spice, not a staple. Or the sex may occur off-stage while the story deals with consequences. Stimulate readers' curiosity, eh?

A link to the story

Thanks for all the replies, they gave me much food for thought as I drafted my first two chapters.

This is a link to Ch.1 https://www.literotica.com/s/queens-gambit-ch-01

I'd love to get some feedback on both the story and my handling of the 'sex early v later' conundrum.

Thanks again!

Scandilove said:

Thanks for all the replies, they gave me much food for thought as I drafted my first two chapters.

This is a link to Ch.1 https://www.literotica.com/s/queens-gambit-ch-01

I'd love to get some feedback on both the story and my handling of the 'sex early v later' conundrum.

Thanks again!

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I'd suggest you create a separate feedback thread. If you do, I'll give you some feedback.

8letters said:

I'd suggest you create a separate feedback thread. If you do, I'll give you some feedback.

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Ok, great, thanks.

According to Diana Gabaldon (author of the wildly popular Outlander series) sex scene is just a dialog scene with specialized body language.

So you can have it in the very first scene if you like. I can envision the first scene where the FMC found herself actually getting bored when getting vanilla sex, and made up her mind to leave. etc.

KayceeCharles said:

According to Diana Gabaldon (author of the wildly popular Outlander series) sex scene is just a dialog scene with specialized body language.

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There's a reason "intercourse" used to mean "conversation", yes