BDSM and misogyny

yeah... Those who act as if the battle has been won are perceived as a problem for those who fear that the battle is not nearly over.

AS you know, I fear that the battle is not over.

I've fought for the rights of women to choose a "traditional" life, but-- yeah. I would hope, very much, that those women, who can make that choice -- because it is a choice the can make -- will work to protect their daughters right to choose what's right for them.

I will.

Stella_Omega said:

I would hope, very much, that those women, who can make that choice -- because it is a choice the can make -- will work to protect their daughters right to choose what's right for them.

I will.

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Absolutely! I want BOTH of my kids (daughter and son) to be able to choose a life that satisfies them. I refuse to pressure them in any way other than making some practical choices to help sustain themselves. My daughter wants to act on Broadway (musicals, in particular). I haven't been a stage mom, other than the occasional reminder to find auditions and being a gentle critic; neither will I discourage her, but she is NOT living at home between auditions and shows. It's a trick to be supportive but at the same time get it through to her that she needs other life skills and job qualifications.

My son is the complete opposite, and wants to be a rocket scientist. I should mention that his favorite teacher and favorite lab partner are female, and it's because he thinks they're smart, not because he's a horn-dog (I'm not sure he's even found his libido yet, go figure).

They're both equality-minded and I'm incredibly proud of them.

desertslave said:

It's an alternative when you grow up surrounded by strident feminism. I'm a child of the late 60s/early 70s. Most adult or near-adult women under whose influence I was raised were horrified when I wanted to choose being a wife and mother over crashing through some designated glass ceiling. My lack of desire to live my life as some kind of political statement offended almost all of them.

They felt (I was told) that I was throwing everything that they were working for in their faces. I felt that, by taking advantage of my opportunity to choose, that I was absolutely exerting my rights, as a human being, to pursue a life that would bring me happiness. <shrug>

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Most near-adult women are horrified that my idea of happiness involves making a living talking to people who are masturbating when I have a degree from one of the finest and blah and blah

That doesn't mean that my job is inherently non-sexist or inherently sexist. It just means I probably ought to have a cover story on hand if I meet someone's 15 year old daughter. It means that the endless need to have my personal self expression validated and noticed ends at some point for the sake of the common good.

The people in my family who even know, are the ones who can handle it, and what they know has been supplied in a need-to-know ONLY way, in language that doesn't make them pee their pants. Happily 99.999999991 percent of all conflict has to do with things-other-than-my-relationships-weird-and-whatever.

This said, my major concern in relationship validation land is how well they'll handle their not-son-in-law's-boob-development-and-new-presentation - but as with everything, this is my fiercely defended choice I don't really need them to be behind. It's a bridge I haven't had to cross or jump off of yet. Explanations will only be mandatory once presentation demands.

They'll think it sucks. I'll go on. Isn't this just what people do?

desertslave said:

Absolutely! I want BOTH of my kids (daughter and son) to be able to choose a life that satisfies them. I refuse to pressure them in any way other than making some practical choices to help sustain themselves. My daughter wants to act on Broadway (musicals, in particular). I haven't been a stage mom, other than the occasional reminder to find auditions and being a gentle critic; neither will I discourage her, but she is NOT living at home between auditions and shows. It's a trick to be supportive but at the same time get it through to her that she needs other life skills and job qualifications.

My son is the complete opposite, and wants to be a rocket scientist. I should mention that his favorite teacher and favorite lab partner are female, and it's because he thinks they're smart, not because he's a horn-dog (I'm not sure he's even found his libido yet, go figure).

They're both equality-minded and I'm incredibly proud of them.

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That's so awesome

How about other people's kids? Women and children need the same kind of active political advocacy as we ever did.

The right to "choose a traditional life" I'm sorry, will go on whether I go to bat for it or not.

There's plenty of ingrained messaging of bullshit that my family gave me that I had to give up or get over or fight with daily to be a full-fledged adult. I also accept that the job of feminism is much bigger than "make me comfortable."

People seem to be conflating being able to choose something with everyone applauding the choice you make.

Guess what, living a life of authenticity in a fake consumer culture is hard work, and nobody hands out trophies and you will probably lose friends and lose economic opportunities and have to make decisions about closets, and survivial-based decisions that are not pretty. Your reward? A life of authenticity. That's IT. I'm grateful every single day not that I have support, but that I have developed the brass cojones to care less than ever about it.

I'm still seeing a lot more people wondering what's wrong with a woman of child bearing age who does not define herself as "a mom" more than anything else.

The only defense the right to "choose a traditional life" needs is the very real question "are we going to continue to live a life of distribution that makes two normal person incomes inadequate in the west, are we still going to consider parenting by middle class white women a calling and parenting by underclass women of all colors a burden?" Because that's the national narrative on reproduction.

Right now, choice is becoming less and less of a choice for more and more people, and the "choice" of learning to read or raising her own children in safety is not something most women get to have. It's even in limited supply in the west.

I have a problem with that. For most people it's never been a choice. The working mother is not a recent invention, it's the norm.

I have a problem with worrying about whether feminists think I'm cool and my sex life is "ok" or not when we should ALL be worrying about whether women are 90whateverpervcent of the world's poorest poor, and I want to genuinely give those women the resources they want instead of importing my outside agenda and making help a kind of colonialism -

and those are the dialogues I want to enter into with feminism. Well, certain kinds of feminism, the kind that hasn't gone completely up its own privileged Western butt.

I absolutely pine for a world in which people can genuinely make their own decisions on their relationship to gendered behavior. If you think that the tilt is not heavily in the direction of "tradition" you are failing to see that you live in an echo chamber of privilege. This is not even a question most people are in the position to enjoy pondering.

I also accept that the job of feminism is much bigger than "make me comfortable."

People seem to be conflating being able to choose something with everyone applauding the choice you make.

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This. This, This, This.

Your mom didn't approve of your choice, but parents often don't approve of children's choices. You did it anyway. Kids do.

And more importantly -- there is no law that prevents you from becoming a stay at home mom. There used to be laws that prevented women from going to work.

Right now, there are bills in state legislatures all over the country that will basically force women to become mothers-- or risk being jailed for murder. Or not risk PIV sex.

Stella_Omega said:

This. This, This, This.

Your mom didn't approve of your choice, but parents often don't approve of children's choices. You did it anyway. Kids do.

And more importantly -- there is no law that prevents you from becoming a stay at home mom. There used to be laws that prevented women from going to work.

Right now, there are bills in state legislatures all over the country that will basically force women to become mothers-- or risk being jailed for murder. Or not risk PIV sex.

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For me, the biggest issues around reproduction are what's NOT said. If someone is supposed to have her babies at ANY cost then someone else is NOT supposed to have babies at all, because bitch can't afford bad choices so PUNISH.

So, I don't know. Goes back to what I said on page 1 or 2 of this. Contraception isn't even the thing that keeps me up latest at night, because I truly believe that we can actually solve all problems within our own community without relying on the government on this front if we're diligent with our charitable and collective impulses and create loans and grants and keep that shit flowing. (subject to change if the climate goes TX all over)

I seriously think that creating a world in which poorer girls are not made to feel powerless in every possible way, and poorer boys are not made to feel powerless in every possible way save one - would go a long way.

Well yeah, the same people are trying to reduce health care for the unworthy.

Stella_Omega said:

Well yeah, the same people are trying to reduce health care for the unworthy.

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Right, it's very hard to know when sexism stars swallowing the tail of the class war.

Stella_Omega said:

You're a sadist, not a misogynist. Very different things. Very different thought processes. Very different motives.

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You're right, and I do know that. So often I view my life the way an outsider might and half the time I'm not even realizing that I do it.

That's it. That's the bottom line isn't it?

There has never been a legal challenge to women doing "woman things"

(unless you're impoverished. Or state-defined "crazy". Or black, underclass, but not always. Hardly the mom-blog set, generally speaking.)

The boundary is a social taboo, which is, in a harsh world, a pretty soft damn boundary.

KoPilot said:

No? You can't genuinely hate half the population while in the bedroom for the purpose of sexyfuntiems and then stop when you step out your door.

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As a woman and a sadist I can say with full confidence that I do not hate men. I only spank men I like, if that makes any sense whatsoever.

What I chose looks traditional on the surface. He works and I stay at home with the kids. That does not mean he gets a time card and I do not. After he comes home, he's a parent, too. We decided on the arrangement long before we had children, long before we were married, and it took a long time to undo the gender specific roles.

Lower middle class our income bracket, many people do not understand that if both of us worked one income would entirely pay for day care. Due to our geographic location, jobs (muchless) careers are scarce. Pay relative to experience and skill versus the cost of living is a joke since the seasonal residents inflate and misconstrue the actual wealth of the county. Me? I have an education and light medical skill.

Payday comes and I decide where the money goes. I've always made big financial decisions, and since my hubs is smart enough to listen we do now enjoy a measure of comfort.

The extended fam did not appreciate my decision as I was groomed to marry money. I care as much now as I did in the beginning: nil.

My close friends always thought me stranger not for how I run my home, but for what I do in the bedroom. Fifty-shades may be an unread thorn in my side, but at the very least it has awaken a few of the ladies to their own "realities."

My hand is extended (just as it is for the kiddos).

desertslave said:

I don't see where hatred enters into it at all.

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Wow, never thought that I'd actually have to link to the fucking dictionary definition of misogyny.

mi·sog·y·ny   [mi-soj-uh-nee, mahy-] noun
1. hatred, dislike, or mistrust of women.

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From http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/misogyny

The hatred aspect is relevant because you people keep wanting to call yourself misgogynists like it's the new hip fucking thing.

My vocabulary is just fine, thank you. I'm concerned, however, about your sense of reading in context. Please read the entire paragraph.

We feed from each other in a perfectly symbiotic way. Receiving pain gets me off; inflicting pain does it for him. He gives me what I need because he loves me. He would never do so if I refused. Heh, when I was post-knee surgery I had to convince him that I was ready. In any other context but our intimacy he's a kind, respectful gentlemanly type. Every other male dom with whom I've ever been involved has been similar.

I've no idea where the 'you people' reference originated in regards to my posts.

desertslave said:

My vocabulary is just fine, thank you. I'm concerned, however, about your sense of reading in context. Please read the entire paragraph.

We feed from each other in a perfectly symbiotic way. Receiving pain gets me off; inflicting pain does it for him. He gives me what I need because he loves me. He would never do so if I refused. Heh, when I was post-knee surgery I had to convince him that I was ready. In any other context but our intimacy he's a kind, respectful gentlemanly type. Every other male dom with whom I've ever been involved has been similar.

I've no idea where the 'you people' reference originated in regards to my posts.

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"You people" because you weren't the only one that said "well, what about meee/usss?"

Also, I read the rest of your paragraph, and it wasn't relevant because that's not misogyny. That's your normal, run-of-the-mill heteronormative D/s. Not sure what's so hard to grasp about that.