Any pitfalls in just not bothering with an editor?

[LadyVer]

The OP wants a back pat and confirmation of his marvel's wonders.

You don't fool me, you love to fight; youre like Davy Crockett jumping in the bushes with the bear.

Born on a mountain top in Tennessee
Greenest state in the land of the free!
Raised in the woods so she knew every tree!
Killed her a bar when she was only three!

The op was looking for editor info. Leave Crockett out of this; he's too good to be dragged in to your arguments.

 

[Perfideous]

The op was looking for editor info. Leave Crockett out of this; he's too good to be dragged in to your arguments.

What is it exactly that crawled up Mr Johnson's back passage and tragically passed away?

To you others , thank you for your observations; I appreciate the time and effort you have given in replying to my question.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

What is it exactly that crawled up Mr Johnson's back passage and tragically passed away?

To you others , thank you for your observations; I appreciate the time and effort you have given in replying to my question.

I answered your OP question, and you don't like it.

You cant get an editor becuz most editors already know that helping a newbie is a fool's errand of futility.

 

[Perfideous]

I answered your OP question, and you don't like it.

You cant get an editor becuz most editors already know that helping a newbie is a fool's errand of futility.

What I object to is your rudeness.

I hadn't actually realized that you were answering anything. You just seem obsessed with your own brilliant insight and appeared happy to hurl insults at anyone within range.

There are very very few editors I would let within a million miles of my stuff. The spell and grammar checks- fine. That's just proof reading.

And that in the main is why I posted cause guess what Jimmy, I'm fussy too.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

What I object to is your rudeness.

I hadn't actually realized that you were answering anything. You just seem obsessed with your own brilliant insight and appeared happy to hurl insults at anyone within range.

There are very very few editors I would let within a million miles of my stuff. The spell and grammar checks- fine. That's just proof reading.

And that in the main is why I posted cause guess what Jimmy, I'm fussy too.

Keep going, you make my point with every post.

 

[_Lynn_]

Just a reminder before this thread gets out of control:


The Editor’s Forum is for authors and editors to discuss issues related to editing stories. People are forgetting this. It's not a place for personal arguments, attacks, or discussions not related to editing stories.

 

[DeYaKen]

Ignore them

Just a reminder before this thread gets out of control:


The Editor’s Forum is for authors and editors to discuss issues related to editing stories. People are forgetting this. It's not a place for personal arguments, attacks, or discussions not related to editing stories.

I completely agree. There are people on all boards whose only purpose in life is to perpetuate flame wars. The only solution is to treat their posts with the contempt they deserve. If no one responds to their rants, they go elsewhere. That was what I decided to do as soon as it was obvious what was happening here.

I'm glad perfidious has had his question answered and now maybe it's time to move on.

 

[elfin_odalisque]

Perfidious

Lady Ver and PL give very good advice, I think, but I've felt for a while that someone should write a good 'How To' on preparing a written story for submission here.

To start at the end first, I think every writer should have one or more 'beta readers, friends/lit members who read the final story and comment on the plot, pacing, consistency and 'wow' factor. Better than getting it in 'Public Comments'.

Before all that, you should look to a copy editor (even yourself) to review grammar, punctuation, sentence structure, tenses, even duplication of text, addressing the readers and even how many lit pages you want to use.

The site is not Draconian, many errors and regional differences are accepted, so don't panic. More than 70 stories a day get published.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

No one wants to invite the wrath of a newbie with thin skin and no enthusiasm for help. Most have a bookcase fulla plastic trophies already.

What they need is an official LIT Dutch uncle to get their minds right and short circuit all the failures to communicate.

 

[Perfideous]

No one wants to invite the wrath of a newbie with thin skin and no enthusiasm for help. Most have a bookcase fulla plastic trophies already.

What they need is an official LIT Dutch uncle to get their minds right and short circuit all the failures to communicate.

You really know nothing about writing, do you?

I can see you have nothing to do in your life than post inane and offensive comments on this site but can you actually point at something you have done in the form of a story so I can see unbelievably gifted you are?

And I make the point that I might be new to this forum but I am certainly not new to writing stories so, yes, sorry, I actually do take myself seriously.

 

[sr71plt]

JBJ is posting stories to Literotica now. You can look him up in the Author Index just like any other Literotica author (and probably should have before assuming he doesn't have stories posted here). That said, he does enjoy poking sticks at folks to hear them squeak, and you seem intent on squeaking for him, so he's probably happy.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

You really know nothing about writing, do you?

I can see you have nothing to do in your life than post inane and offensive comments on this site but can you actually point at something you have done in the form of a story so I can see unbelievably gifted you are?

And I make the point that I might be new to this forum but I am certainly not new to writing stories so, yes, sorry, I actually do take myself seriously.

The point isn't my talents, the point is newbie arrogance as the obstacle to editorial help. I'm not 100% certain but I'm confident that Maxwell Perkins never wrote a poem or short story or essay in his life, and he's the Champion Editor of the Ages.

Editors don't wanna deal with the hubris and the tantrums.

 

[Perfideous]

JBJ is posting stories to Literotica now. You can look him up in the Author Index just like any other Literotica author (and probably should have before assuming he doesn't have stories posted here). That said, he does enjoy poking sticks at folks to hear them squeak, and you seem intent on squeaking for him, so he's probably happy.

Thanks, I always enjoy a condescending post.

 

[LadyVer]

Thanks, I always enjoy a condescending post.

The ig button is really useful. I use it.

 

[Perfideous]

The point isn't my talents, the point is newbie arrogance as the obstacle to editorial help. I'm not 100% certain but I'm confident that Maxwell Perkins never wrote a poem or short story or essay in his life, and he's the Champion Editor of the Ages.

Editors don't wanna deal with the hubris and the tantrums.

The point is exactly your talents. You have taken it upon yourself to write a series of put downs aimed at me.

I can't find any JAMESBJOHNSON in the authors list so I still have no idea whether or not you can actually write a decent story. I suspect it will be arms length two dimensional stuff but I will give it careful scrutiny, if I ever find an example.

Why do you say 'newbie arrogance as the obstacle to editorial help?' My opening post was to the effect I couldn't get an editor, so was it possible to post without using one?

How exactly do you work "newbie arrogance..." out of that.

And I couldn't give a flying you know what about Maxwell Perkins is or was because he won't be editing my stories, will he Jimmy boy?

And speaking of tantrums and hubris I am writing to one of the all time champions.

As for editors, well to me its the old saying; those who can write, those who can't edit.

 

[Derroreaper]

I can't find any JAMESBJOHNSON in the authors list so I still have no idea whether or not you can actually write a decent story. I suspect it will be arms length two dimensional stuff but I will give it careful scrutiny, if I ever find an example.

Sadly, that doesn't mean his stories aren't there, it just means you cant use the search function. (They are there, I just won't post a link)

I personally don't use an editor, but that's just me.

 

[sr71plt]

Thanks, I always enjoy a condescending post.

You seem to be making more than your share of them, so I would have guessed you like them--and also like to fight.

To be blunt, it's really pretty stupid to try to fight with JBJ on his terms. He loves that--and it makes you look like his fool.

 

[sr71plt]

I can't find any JAMESBJOHNSON in the authors list so I still have no idea whether or not you can actually write a decent story. I suspect it will be arms length two dimensional stuff but I will give it careful scrutiny, if I ever find an example.

Here you go. I won't hold my breath for a "thank you" or an "oh, sorry, for being wrong."

http://www.literotica.com/stories/memberpage.php?uid=884614&page=submissions

(As far as I can determine, his low story ratings relate more to his activity on the forum--which you seem to be blind to and to have sucked into and then to have mimicked--than his writing ability.)

Although it's beyond me why writing a good story (in your judgment) has much to do with whether or not one needs a good editor. One can always use a good editor, and editorial and writing skills are not exactly the same. I also can't quite see your fixation on whether you give JBJ's stories here a pass or not, because whereas I can find his stories here, I can find your membership but no stories by you posted here. What's your basis to judge anything?

 

[LadyVer]

The point isn't my talents, the point is newbie arrogance as the obstacle to editorial help. I'm not 100% certain but I'm confident that Maxwell Perkins never wrote a poem or short story or essay in his life, and he's the Champion Editor of the Ages.

Editors don't wanna deal with the hubris and the tantrums.

Jim, I don't see where the op was being arrogant at all. He was just asking for info and for some reason you and a couple of others automatically jumped on him for no reason. Anyway, I just read one of your stories, Working Girls-Chapter 1. You're a great writer but you need help with some mechanics. If you ever want some editing help, let me know. I'm going to read Chapter 2 to read how your story continues because it's a good story. (Won't say anything else about editing unless you do).

 

[Perfideous]

Here you go. I won't hold my breath for a "thank you" or an "oh, sorry, for being wrong."

http://www.literotica.com/stories/memberpage.php?uid=884614&page=submissions

(As far as I can determine, his low story ratings relate more to his activity on the forum--which you seem to be blind to and to have sucked into and then to have mimicked--than his writing ability.)

Although it's beyond me why writing a good story (in your judgment) has much to do with whether or not one needs a good editor. One can always use a good editor, and editorial and writing skills are not exactly the same. I also can't quite see your fixation on whether you give JBJ's stories here a pass or not, because whereas I can find his stories here, I can find your membership but no stories by you posted here. What's your basis to judge anything?

Well first off thank you for posting the link, I have read a story by JamesB and I can tell you I am not over awed.

Your question "What is your basis to judge anything" is quite astonishing in it's arrogance. How can you possibly know what I know?

On Editors; yes any writer can use a good editor. That's the easy part; the hard part is finding one. For me proof reading is not editing. Editing requires an understanding of the story and how you can have that without the ability to write well yourself is a mystery to me. From the understanding the editor should be able to suggest ways of altering the story so it makes more sense, or has a stronger plot or the characters are made more real and their actions and reactions are credible.

This should be in the category of gilding the lily as all of the above are basic elements of a story.

I don't know about other writers but I edit, part rewrite and edit again until I think my stories are good enough. Often I will bin stories and other times I do a total rewrite. Then I post. It would have been good to have a second pair of eyes to run them past but that is not to be.

At the end of the day my stories are mine and what I post must be exactly what I want it to be. If that had meant changing because an editor showed me how it could be presented better than it was I would have gladly agreed to it. I do not obsess with being right; I obsess with getting things right.

Now this is all I want to write on this thread. I want to get back to writing; I write sensitively and I cannot get in the mind set to do that while I am battling with JamesB.

 

[Bramblethorn]

Editing requires an understanding of the story and how you can have that without the ability to write well yourself is a mystery to me.

Writing and editing ability often come together, but it's not universal. Some people have difficulty finding inspiration and coming up with story ideas of their own, but are still able to identify the strengths and weaknesses of other people's work.

 

[_Lynn_]

Last reminder for this thread . . .

The Editor’s Forum is for authors and editors to discuss issues related to editing stories. People are forgetting this. It's not a place for personal arguments, attacks, or discussions not related to editing stories.

 

[DeYaKen]

Iain Rankin uses an editor

Most authors of novels and non-fiction use editors for the same reason as I would, If only I could find one to replace my beloved Juicystarchild. A good editor does so much more than dot the 'i's and cross the 't's. They give you the readers viewpoint.

It is so easy,when writing, to make assumptions about what the reader knows or does not know. An editor sees your story without knowing what was in your head and so can be objective. I have scrapped stories after showing them to an editor. I have published stories that I was going to shelve.

I've received advice like "this is a really good character you should develop her further, especially since she comes up again later in the story." Most of the time I have taken the advice and been glad I did.

Ideally I like to build a relationship with one editor (no, not sexual) so that they know me and I know them. When a level of trust is built up it stops all the pussy footing around, I know what I can ask them and they know they can criticise, without me going into a sulk.

As for editors being writers, the two aren't mutually exclusive but being driven to write is by no means a qualification to be a good editor. Juicy didn't write at all when she started editing for me. She did, with my encouragement, write a couple of stories and post them on lit before the demands of her real life forced her to give up. More important is that an editor is someone who reads a lot and can recognise a good story when they see one. They need the skill to analyse the story and pinpoint what needs changing.

A good editor can't make a bad story good but they can make a good story better.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

I don't use an editor, and don't plan to.

I know that editors bring a lot to the table that's valuable, and I know from experience that they bring along a cart fulla baggage, too. Writers assume editors are gurus, and that's nonsense. Most editors strike me as like the debutante who volunteers to dance with the soldiers down at the USO but their heart isn't in it.

 

[LadyVer]

I don't use an editor, and don't plan to.

I know that editors bring a lot to the table that's valuable, and I know from experience that they bring along a cart fulla baggage, too. Writers assume editors are gurus, and that's nonsense. Most editors strike me as like the debutante who volunteers to dance with the soldiers down at the USO but their heart isn't in it.

To each his own. I'm guessing it's hard, especially on a site that has volunteer editors, to find a good editor/author match. I know you weren't addressing your comment specifically to me. It's only in the last couple of months I've been doing any editing and the hardest part is developing a good working relationship with the author, getting used to each other's ways. I can see where it would be easy for both sides to get annoyed as hell and just say fuck it. I've learned a lot, which was my reason for getting into it. I've edited docs from 2400 words to close to 30k. The 30k was a killer. I just spent all night finishing the 3rd and final edit. I told the author whatever errors show up now, too fing bad. I left a smiley face in the email with that note. I know he feels the same way. I think we both feel like we're sick of the story, which turned out great, even though I had to tell him after this, no more sex scenes but vanilla. I'm just a mouse. Needless to say, I prefer the shorter docs.