Yucca Mountain

[Rhys]

In scanning the headlines today of my hometown paper, I have
discovered to my horror that the DOE intends to go through with plans for a nuclear waste facility in Southern Nevada.

I am not happy about this. First of all, a lot of things already glow in the dark in Southern Nevada, and not all are the neon from the casinos.

Why is it that the government sees vast tracts of open land and thinks "ah, here's where we'll dump that crap!"

Never mind the desert ecology it destroys. Never mind that in 100 years that probably going to be a housing development at our current population expansion. Nevermind that the ground water in Southern Nevada is already undrinkable. Nevermind that there is no failsafe way to contain this crap. And last, but not least, nevermind that we desperately need to develop alternative fuel sources to get away from the power mongering fossil fuel types. But, nuclear energy is too volitile a source and leaves too much residue behind.

Right now, shipping it to ...Oh those countries that are pissing us off seems like a good idea...

I have no real alternative solution to where we'd put the stuff...any suggestions?

 

[Andreina]

I see that your mind is boggling again, Rhys. It probably was just the Turtle Soup, wasn't it?

Well, as for your concern about Southern Nevada: there is a wide range of renewable energy, like wind-parks (and no, im not talking about certain food giving you gas) and solar energy. The only way to reduce Nuclear waste is to stop building and using Nuclear Power Plants for energy production.

The Little Devil With a Green Halo

 

[cymbidia]

How about we dump it all down the Mariana Trench? That's WAY over there across the Pacific, and it's deep, and if (when) it affects the local deep water ecology, it'll take *years* to get to us.


Nuclear power plants are a prime example of technology being developed and implemented far faster than our scientific and societal abilities to provide adequate social protections against unforseen but potentially harmful offshoots of that technology. Efficient fixes for the problems of nuclear power plant waste generation simply don't exist.

And we're running out of fossil fuels.

And there's not enough wind to bridge that gap, either.

And our governement - like others worldwide - have seen fit to close down and deny funding to pure research programs working on this problem. The knowledge from such programs would have been applied to more practical research to come up with solutions.

The whole energy situation, worldwide, is definitely a mess and not getting any better.

 

[Rhys]

I'm Boggled!!

I see that your mind is boggling again, Rhys. It probably was just the Turtle Soup, wasn't it?

Well, as for your concern about Southern Nevada: there is a wide range of renewable energy, like wind-parks (and no, im not talking about certain food giving you gas) and solar energy. The only way to reduce Nuclear waste is to stop building and using Nuclear Power Plants for energy production.


I am just boggled by it all. I know the solution is to stop using nuclear power but its clearly not that simple or the DOE wouldn't want to drop the shit on Yucca Mountain.

Its enough to make me want to crawl into a hole and cry really...

ooo..dizzy again...where are my antibiotics....

 

[Rhys]

How do we change it?

.

The whole energy situation, worldwide, is definitely a mess and not getting any better. [/B][/QUOTE]

I read somewhere, that methane is actually stored in a slushy form just under the earth's mantle. Why aren't we trying to develop this alternative fuel source. Why do we have to kill our planet?

I'm sorry...I'm in a wierd mood today

 

[Rhys]

Cym...

wasn't the Mariana Trench where they set off the nukes in the
Godzilla movies...

maybe I'm hallucinating...somebody tell me I'm hallucinating...

 

[login]

I've always wondered why supposedly intelligent people supported nuclear power. The safety problems and accident records were acceptable, if you squinted real hard, and turned your head just so, but no one seemed to want to talk about the waste problem. Did they think it would just go away if they ignored it long enough?

The whole energy situation, worldwide, is definitely a mess and not getting any better.

Fuel cell technology looks promising. No long-lived nasty waste products, cheap and available raw materials. Cym, you're more up to speed on this sort of thing. Is there a major problem with it that I'm not aware of? It's not economical enough yet, but it's getting there.

 

[Andreina]

Fact is that we are running out of carbo-fuels soon... this has not only an effect on our economy but on the oil-producing countries economy as well.
With all the oil patronage having been taken place in the Middle East Rentier States have developed that will have a hard time surviving on its own once the oil producers withdraw. For example, Dubai has a population that is 80% consistent of foreigners. The same goes for places like Abu Dhabi, Doha and Kuwait City. The indigenous population of the Middle Eastern states is barely developed, only very few have made it to office jobs as 80% of the jobs are being taken up foreigners.

I know this is not of immediate concern to people living outside the Middle East but it will be an immedate problem some time. Although the governments now try to promote secondary industries to root in their countries this is not proofing very successful, because of the influence of the oil companies. Most oil companies also own up 70% of the rights of the oil, leaving the countries once they run out of oil penniless.
Certainly tourism is going to be a big attractive market in the future (that's why so many Gulf States are opening up) but still, one should think about the wider picture of the situation.





I will stop preaching now. I promise.

 

[fgarvb1]

Oh!, You mean Glow Mountain!

 

[Rhys]

Glow Mountain

They say you could see the mushroom clouds from downtown
Las Vegas in the early 50's. In fact, they had special watch parties. Such innocent times. Now I guess it will eclipse even the light on the Luxor...

and we call this shit progress?

 

[Andreina]

Didn't the Pentagon release information in summer that it was testing Biotechnological weapons as well somewhere in that area?

 

[Rhys]

ID4

Didn't the Pentagon release information in summer that it was testing Biotechnological weapons as well somewhere in that area?

Oh this is the land of the UFO! We are talking secret bases, conspiracy theories and fruitcakes en masse!

This is the land of the fabled Area 51 at Groom Lake.

aliens anyone....

 

[Andreina]

I wonder when they will rename Yucca Mountain to Yuck-a-Mountain

 

[Rhys]

I wonder when they will rename Yucca Mountain to Yuck-a-Mountain

about 2 seconds after the dumping starts

::sigh::

just when I thought I'd found a cool place to live

 

[Andreina]

about 2 seconds after the dumping starts

::sigh::

just when I thought I'd found a cool place to live

hey, at least you'll start glowing for all you're worth - saves you switching the light on when you want to read at night

 

[Texan]

I know

I'm going to sound like a pompous ass with this post, but I'm going to do it anyway. I read this whole thread twice trying to find one ounce of fact. Cymb... you know I think the world of you, I just don't think you put much into this thread.

1. Nuclear power is safe and cost efficient. We have the technology, all we lack is the political will to implement the technology.

2. Have you ever heard the term NIMBY? It means "not in my back yard." That is how people feel about nuclear byproduct disposal. Guess what... if you have the biggest back yard, you are likely to get the stuff others don't want. Live with it...

3. We have used less than 10% of the fossil fuels that are available on this planet. And I'm only talking about the fuels that we have the current technology to extract and consume. At our current rate of consumption and growth of consumption, we only have enough left to last about 350 years. The integration of nuclear and other energy sources, could extend that time to around 600 years.

As far as what the dimunition of the oil industry would do to Middle-Eastern countries.... can you imagine where they would be without the oil industry? Besides, right now, I'm not too worried what happens to those countries.

BTW.... Cym.... that thread you and I had last summer on "origin of the speces" was one of my favorites....

 

[Rhys]

Heh

hey, at least you'll start glowing for all you're worth - saves you switching the light on when you want to read at night

And I guess a glow in the dark penis could have its advantages as well

 

[Texan]

Re: Heh

And I guess a glow in the dark penis could have its advantages as well

I'm sorry for my previous post... I didn't realize this had turned into a flirting thread...

I'll leave now....

 

[Andreina]

Re: Heh

And I guess a glow in the dark penis could have its advantages as well

well, "light" colours usually make things look bigger, don't they?

 

[Moridin187]

My couple of pennies:

Good place to dump nuclear waste? Look to Saudi Arabia, the Empty quarter.. Thousands of square miles of Nothing. There isn't even an actual border on the maps of where Saudi Arabia leaves off and the next country starts because Nobody Wants It.

As to nuclear power being safe.. Anything that could possibly meltdown and kill people for miles around isn't safe. No matter how many securities and teams and how much technology you build around it, it isn't safe.

Wind power, solar power, hydrogen power, these must be the wave of the future. All our sources of power are dirtying our planet, we're shitting in our own bed here.

 

[flawed_ethics]

Here's how I see it. We NEED nuclear Energy. Why? Because without it we'd have to build a plethora of fossil-fuel plants just to compensate for the power generated by the Nuclear Power Plants stateswide. Wanna cut back on our fossil fuel reserves just to keep nuclear waste at it's current levels? Go right ahead. I'll find the nearest bridge to jump off of for pulling such a bonehead stunt.

Of course, energy compensation is a much better avenue of action. But who wants to do that? Let's face it: as Americans, we get what we want WHEN we want it (usually NOW!), and we're not about to change our daily lives to better suit others. So we'll need our energy plants to maintain our everyday lives.

Texan - I hope you realize that I do not like Bush, and as someone who heralds from his state, I can only take your otherwise well-put comments with a grain of salt. Yeah - depending on who you talk to, you could stretch the life of fossil fuels out. But why ignore the obvious? We will have to eventually run out of fossil fuels (short of stretching out our current consumption over millions of years). Alternate means of energy production and conservation should be sought out instead of abandoned.

I personally have supported Yucca Mountain since I first studied it. It beats having a scatter of outdoor concrete containment buildings - which BTW we will end up having to live with since (the last time I checked) the project would not be able to hold the current amount of nuclear waste sitting in America right now. But it should prove helpful for those sites where an act of God (earthquake, flood, etc...) would prove potentially lethal should they compromise such outdoor structures.



Sorry. I don't mean to come off as prude to anyone. I simply had a very frustrating day at work today.

 

[login]

Re: I know

1. Nuclear power is safe and cost efficient.

...until the fuel is spent, and we have to find a place and a procedure to store the waste for hundreds of thousands of years. Our current procedures have been proven less than adequate. NIMBY has prevented finding a place for decades.

As I mentioned before, nuclear power advocates seem to want to ignore this problem. I honestly don't know why. Do you not think of it as a problem? FInding a safe way to store radioactive materials for decades has proven difficult and I'm not convinced that we've managed to accomplish it. Extend that to the time frame required for this material to cool down, and it's ludicrous to consider it safe or cost efficient. IMO, of course.

 

[Rhys]

I'm not anti nuke

From my previous lamenting, I probably came off as anti nuke. I'm really not, but again the problem is, where do we put the stuff?

Why aren't we developing alternatives? Fossil fuels contaminate...look around the skies of Denver, Los Angeles, Las Vegas, San Francisco....that brown cloud is SMOG! and no amount of regulation is making it disappear.

I am against Yucca Mountain for a number of reasons...not just NIMBY ones either (I don't own a home there yet, ergo no backyard) Geologically, are we so certain this area is stable???

We desperately need alternatives because as a country we have put all our eggs in to the proverbial single basket and that could come back and bite us on the ass.

 

[flawed_ethics]

My couple of pennies:

...

Wind power, solar power, hydrogen power, these must be the wave of the future. All our sources of power are dirtying our planet, we're shitting in our own bed here.

Ah, yes! The alternatives...

Solar & Wind. Pipe dreams - the both of them. Expensive and Unreliable, just what the average person wants! Yes, their zero emissions are enticing. But since their output is undependable (based on factors beyond our control - namely the weather) and too little to meet our demands, they'll never catch on as they should.

It would be great if solar devices were economical enough that the average person could afford them, so that the could be eqquipped on rooftops to drive down household dependence on external energy. I doubt the power comanies would dig this though, as the loss of revenue would be deadly.

Fortunately, farms do seem to be picking up on wind power, but just how much this will lessen the burden doesn't appear to be too promising.

Hydrogen. You want explosive? BOOM! Seriously, it would be nice if a reliable, safe way to trasnport or generate it could be found. Good luck though. No economical technology can produce hydrogen without putting more into the system than what they get out of it, essentially defeating the purpose.

I haven't read up on the fuel cell hybrid cars yet, but if they're for real, it'll be a welcome step.



I'm not trying to be a nay sayer here - just realistic. Ideally we'd all live in hills where geothermal energies heat and cool our houses naturally, and we all use compost to grow our own harvests, and be a great agrarian society (wouldn't Thomas Jefferson be proud?). Instead, we're grown up on the 'great American dream' where our objective is to own a house, two cars, 2.7 some odd children, and let those in power determine the future for us.

*sigh* I need a hug!

 

[Andreina]

i personally think it is sad that bush has opened national parks for the exploitation of natural resources. destroying some of the last habitats for some cheaper fuel (and this although the US has one of the lowest fuel prices of the western world) is just SO ridiculous.

I'm always surprised how little is done in the states to protect the environment. It is sad.
Just wait until in a few hundred years California will sink into the Pacific like Tuvalu will do soon.