Your thoughts?

[butters]

Constitutional carry, with some training. Does away with the balkanized patchwork we have now. I recently drove down to Philly. My concealed piece was fine in VT, illegal in MA, NY, NJ, and then legal again by reciprocity with NH in PA.

Wtf kind of sense does that make?

that sounds insane: seems to me any legislation ought to be a national thing, recognised across states. but then a lot of things that're legal in one is illegal in another. where's the united in that?

 

[Aglaopheme]

All I had to see was the words "national" and "card" to realize that what you're describing will be a total nonstarter with the gun lobby.

Exactly. Who holds the list? Someone needs to be able to track the gun owners if they are going to be held responsible if their gun is used to commite a crime, or even just to check whether or not their card is legit.

 

[Wrong Element]

not really.

criminals won't be signing up for one.

I've never understood this reasoning. You could use the same logic to oppose any and all laws, since by definition all criminal activity results from someone choosing to ignore an existing law.

I mean, why have a law forbidding killing people, if murderers aren't going to abide by it?

 

[Peregrinator]

as a brit, i'm ignorant of many US related issues. why do people have objections to registration?

plus,if the card is the license, there should be something in place to make sure you're still fit to own it every - what - 5 years? mental ill health, physical degeneration (eyesight, for example), might affect ones ability to make judgement calls or physically operate a gun to the required standards.

do i think guns should be all registered/owner-matched in the same kind of way as vehicles in the UK? yeah, till someone convinces me why a different approach is better.

Registration is the necessary first step in federal or state control. This is an admittedly philosophical objection, but I think it's valid. The right to keep and bear arms is enshrined at the same level for us as the right to free speech, peaceable assembly, etc. Any government step toward infringing any of those rights absolutely should be opposed aggressively until it's proved beyond doubt that some higher good is achieved by limiting it.

I included something about an expiration date/refresher course. Everyone I know who owns guns goes to the range and shoots them once in a while anyway.

That list is another step toward confiscation/control.

 

[Peregrinator]

All I had to see was the words "national" and "card" to realize that what you're describing will be a total nonstarter with the gun lobby.

I hope some of them would keep reading to the bit about no record being kept. There are similar ideas being proposed periodically.

 

[Peregrinator]

Having no record of guy purchases is not a good idea. Purchase from anyone at any time is a bad idea. Any gun you want because you took a class is a bad idea. Giant clips is a bad idea.

I go the opposite. I think every guy should weight 100 pounds and each round should cost $200, and it should all be recorded.

That would certainly ensure a thriving black market and a marked decrease in training for the law abiding.

 

[Peregrinator]

And therein lies the deficiency of your plan.

Tell the truth. The primary motivation for your coming up with the plan is the noise created by the "extremes." And as long as "GUNZ KILL BABIES" the noise decrying the very EXISTENCE of guns will not abate.

The real "purpose" of gun control is to shut these people up. And since their heartfelt objective of 100% cessation of all gun deaths to innocent victims cannot be achieved, the noise is going to continue whenever gun deaths make the news. Which is why the overwhelming number of innocent shooting victims never generate a protest parade in their memory. They're under reported.

That's part of it. It's also an attempt to add a reasonable voice. I think both sides have good and bad points. I'd prefer that people who own and carry guns actually know something about them.

 

[Bert Notorius]

I've never understood this reasoning. You could use the same logic to oppose any and all laws, since by definition all criminal activity results from someone choosing to ignore an existing law.

I mean, why have a law forbidding killing people, if murderers aren't going to abide by it?

do you think that there should be a murder card?

 

[Liar]

All guns carried by civilians should be designed to look like a big, veiny cock and a wrinkly ballsack. It should also play the Friendship Is Magic themesong when waving it about, and Never Gonna Give You Up after discharging.

 

[Peregrinator]

i'm not a fan of increasing the federal govt's power in any shape or form.

i'm assuming if the piece is disabled,

those states don't care.

I'm not wild about it generally either.

I left out CT.

Pretty sure some of them do, in fact. Christie recently pardoned some lady for driving with one in the car. But whatever, even if so, a disabled gun in the trunk ain't much help on the Cross Bronx at 1 in the morning. Besides, this doesn't increase the fed's power. It just frees us to exercise a right.

 

[Peregrinator]

that sounds insane: seems to me any legislation ought to be a national thing, recognised across states. but then a lot of things that're legal in one is illegal in another. where's the united in that?

Goes to the history. The states used to be a lot more autonomous. Federal law supersedes state law, but the states can add more restrictions.

 

[Peregrinator]

Exactly. Who holds the list? Someone needs to be able to track the gun owners if they are going to be held responsible if their gun is used to commite a crime, or even just to check whether or not their card is legit.

How about a sealed list held by the course instructor and protected similar to attorney-client privilege? Subpoena necessary?

 

[Aglaopheme]

How about a sealed list held by the course instructor and protected similar to attorney-client privilege? Subpoena necessary?

And they will track suspensions as well? Turn in all of your guns for 5 days?

I like the training/safety and refresher course bit.

 

[Noor]

Maybe every person should be trained on firearms like every person should have sex educations. Whether they choose to use it or not is up to them.

 

[Peregrinator]

And they will track suspensions as well? Turn in all of your guns for 5 days?

I like the training/safety and refresher course bit.

No need. If you get caught with gun(s) and no card you're fucked. Similar to driving under suspension. We don't ask people to turn in their cars. Just take the card and give it back when the time is up. Maybe require a refresher course, like those drunk driving classes.

Turning in guns would involve knowing who has what. I don't support that level of snooping.

Those couses exist now, for hunters and in some states for carry permits. The main reason most oppose mandating them is it leads to records keeping. In the gun press there's a constant and strident chorus of people encouraging more training and practice.

 

[Peregrinator]

Maybe every person should be trained on firearms like every person should have sex educations. Whether they choose to use it or not is up to them.

I like it. And they used to do that in schools.

 

[Aglaopheme]

No need. If you get caught with gun(s) and no card you're fucked. Similar to driving under suspension. We don't ask people to turn in their cars. Just take the card and give it back when the time is up. Maybe require a refresher course, like those drunk driving classes.

Turning in guns would involve knowing who has what. I don't support that level of snooping.

Those couses exist now, for hunters and in some states for carry permits. The main reason most oppose mandating them is it leads to records keeping. In the gun press there's a constant and strident chorus of people encouraging more training and practice.

If I am a police officer and I stop you and you're carrying, you have your card, how am I going to know it's legit or not suspended without access to a database? My point about turning in the guns was more of a how are you going to enforce a suspension question. I know saying turn in your guns is an instant freak out.

 

[Peregrinator]

If I am a police officer and I stop you and you're carrying, you have your card, how am I going to know it's legit or not suspended without access to a database? My point about turning in the guns was more of a how are you going to enforce a suspension question. I know saying turn in your guns is an instant freak out.

When you're found guilty of something, the card is confiscated until your suspension is over. Forged cards are another issue. I guess when there's reason to suspect that, you get a subpoena and check the class records.

 

[Aglaopheme]

When you're found guilty of something, the card is confiscated until your suspension is over. Forged cards are another issue. I guess when there's reason to suspect that, you get a subpoena and check the class records.

I suppose that could work if folks trusted the instructors. That is a pretty big if as I see it. People are so darn fearful of their rights being taken away from them.

*shrugs*

 

[Misshotndeep]

I looked up the word respect in the dictionary today.

1. a feeling of deep admiration for someone or something elicited by their abilities, qualities, or achievements.
   
2. a particular aspect, point, or detail.

My kid was being a brat and not respectful. So i made him write out that he should be respectful to me 50x. Then he was still moaning so I looked the word "respectful up in the dictionary and found the above.
I discovered that as a parent I say respect me. When what is mean is obey me. It's my lil discovery of the day I guess. Live and learn.

 

[snugglestruggle]

I think this will b another case of when all is said and done we'll find out the shooter wasn't quite right upstairs.

IMO if we get serious about addressing mental health in this country which includes doctors as drug pimps for big Pharma ,then we'll see a eduction in these kind of shootings.

I'm for people proving they can handle a firearm safely before they can purchase.
It will only reduce accidental shootings.

I'm not in favor of more laws until the current laws are 100% enforced and the case can be made for needing a new law.

 

[Peregrinator]

I suppose that could work if folks trusted the instructors. That is a pretty big if as I see it. People are so darn fearful of their rights being taken away from them.

*shrugs*

Yeah, that is an issue. I guess caveat emptor. Choose your instructor carefully. My guess is the majority of those instructors are gun nuts, though. And people already trust that the background checks done at point of sale are erased.

 

[Peregrinator]

I looked up the word respect in the dictionary today.

1. a feeling of deep admiration for someone or something elicited by their abilities, qualities, or achievements.
   
2. a particular aspect, point, or detail.

My kid was being a brat and not respectful. So i made him write out that he should be respectful to me 50x. Then he was still moaning so I looked the word "respectful up in the dictionary and found the above.
I discovered that as a parent I say respect me. When what is mean is obey me. It's my lil discovery of the day I guess. Live and learn.

Oh.


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