Your thoughts?

[Peregrinator]

This is an idea I had. Still in progress. What do you think?

We institute a national gun training card. Decide on what curriculum the course needs, then anyone who wants to can take it. If you want, there can be a refresher course every couple years as well. People who take the course also pass a background check. Details are negotiable, but I think they should mostly be pretty obvious.

Once you pass the course and get your card, you can then purchase a gun from anyone. Anywhere. Private sale, gun show, gun shop, whatever. No records kept, so concerns about registration are addressed. The card IS a license. You have the training, and now you have a gun. You may now carry it wherever you want subject to the obvious restrictions like private property and court rooms. We can argue about target rich environments, um, I mean "gun free zones," later.

You choose the gun. We can now assume that you have sufficient training and knowledge of safety procedures that we don't have to have irrational laws regarding ZOMG SKEERY ARMY LOOKING GUNZ anymore. You want a pistol grip? Okay. You want a bayonet lug? Okay. You want a magazine that holds 456 rounds? Okay.

Then we make sure that every time a gun crime occurs, whether it's a shooting or, say, discharging a firearm in church or simply carrying one someplace you're not allowed to like onto an airplane or leaving it laying around, we investigate and prosecute if appropriate. If the gun owner is found to be negligent, or guilty of murder, he faces the normal penalties and loses his gun card for some amount of time that fits the crime, ranging from 24 hours to forever.

I think this addresses most of the concerns of both sides except the extremes ("GUNZ DRIVE TO SKOOLS AND KILL BABIES" and "OBAMAZ COMIN FER YER GUNZ GONNA DIKTATERSHIP US ALL BESIDES BLACK HELICOPTERZ"), and no reasonable proposal will ever address them anyway.

For some perspective on what's a reasonable amount of training, check out the training cops and soldiers get. Even infantry soldiers, who actually use guns, let alone military personnel who have more civilian style jobs like nurses and law clerks and stuff.

 

[Aella_]

Geez, boys and their toys...

 

[Bert Notorius]

This is an idea I had. Still in progress. What do you think?

We institute a national gun training card. Decide on what curriculum the course needs, then anyone who wants to can take it. If you want, there can be a refresher course every couple years as well. People who take the course also pass a background check. Details are negotiable, but I think they should mostly be pretty obvious.

Once you pass the course and get your card, you can then purchase a gun from anyone. Anywhere. Private sale, gun show, gun shop, whatever. No records kept, so concerns about registration are addressed. The card IS a license. You have the training, and now you have a gun. You may now carry it wherever you want subject to the obvious restrictions like private property and court rooms. We can argue about target rich environments, um, I mean "gun free zones," later.

You choose the gun. We can now assume that you have sufficient training and knowledge of safety procedures that we don't have to have irrational laws regarding ZOMG SKEERY ARMY LOOKING GUNZ anymore. You want a pistol grip? Okay. You want a bayonet lug? Okay. You want a magazine that holds 456 rounds? Okay.

Then we make sure that every time a gun crime occurs, whether it's a shooting or, say, discharging a firearm in church or simply carrying one someplace you're not allowed to like onto an airplane or leaving it laying around, we investigate and prosecute if appropriate. If the gun owner is found to be negligent, or guilty of murder, he faces the normal penalties and loses his gun card for some amount of time that fits the crime, ranging from 24 hours to forever.

I think this addresses most of the concerns of both sides except the extremes ("GUNZ DRIVE TO SKOOLS AND KILL BABIES" and "OBAMAZ COMIN FER YER GUNZ GONNA DIKTATERSHIP US ALL BESIDES BLACK HELICOPTERZ"), and no reasonable proposal will ever address them anyway.

For some perspective on what's a reasonable amount of training, check out the training cops and soldiers get. Even infantry soldiers, who actually use guns, let alone military personnel who have more civilian style jobs like nurses and law clerks and stuff.

sounds like a driver's license.

that sure worked for automobiles.

no one ever dies in an automobile.

 

[NOIRTRASH]

Supremes already said you can own a gun.

 

[butters]

This is an idea I had. Still in progress. What do you think?

We institute a national gun training card. Decide on what curriculum the course needs, then anyone who wants to can take it. If you want, there can be a refresher course every couple years as well. People who take the course also pass a background check. Details are negotiable, but I think they should mostly be pretty obvious.

Once you pass the course and get your card, you can then purchase a gun from anyone. Anywhere. Private sale, gun show, gun shop, whatever. No records kept, so concerns about registration are addressed. The card IS a license. You have the training, and now you have a gun. You may now carry it wherever you want subject to the obvious restrictions like private property and court rooms. We can argue about target rich environments, um, I mean "gun free zones," later.

You choose the gun. We can now assume that you have sufficient training and knowledge of safety procedures that we don't have to have irrational laws regarding ZOMG SKEERY ARMY LOOKING GUNZ anymore. You want a pistol grip? Okay. You want a bayonet lug? Okay. You want a magazine that holds 456 rounds? Okay.

Then we make sure that every time a gun crime occurs, whether it's a shooting or, say, discharging a firearm in church or simply carrying one someplace you're not allowed to like onto an airplane or leaving it laying around, we investigate and prosecute if appropriate. If the gun owner is found to be negligent, or guilty of murder, he faces the normal penalties and loses his gun card for some amount of time that fits the crime, ranging from 24 hours to forever.

I think this addresses most of the concerns of both sides except the extremes ("GUNZ DRIVE TO SKOOLS AND KILL BABIES" and "OBAMAZ COMIN FER YER GUNZ GONNA DIKTATERSHIP US ALL BESIDES BLACK HELICOPTERZ"), and no reasonable proposal will ever address them anyway.

For some perspective on what's a reasonable amount of training, check out the training cops and soldiers get. Even infantry soldiers, who actually use guns, let alone military personnel who have more civilian style jobs like nurses and law clerks and stuff.

sounds pretty reasonable, but what about lost/stolen gun cards, or even forged ones? once the card is recognised as 'proof', forgery and black-marketing is inevitable.

lost/stolen cards can be canceled - but only as soon as the owner realises the card is gone. chip n pin? someting other?

 

[Liar]

Supremes already said you can own a gun.

Did they say it has to be convenient to get one?

 

[Bert Notorius]

sounds pretty reasonable, but what about lost/stolen gun cards, or even forged ones? once the card is recognised as 'proof', forgery and black-marketing is inevitable.

lost/stolen cards can be canceled - but only as soon as the owner realises the card is gone. chip n pin? someting other?

they already exit.

you need a foid card in il to own a fire arm.

no one ever gets shot in chicago.

 

[Peregrinator]

sounds pretty reasonable, but what about lost/stolen gun cards, or even forged ones? once the card is recognised as 'proof', forgery and black-marketing is inevitable.

lost/stolen cards can be canceled - but only as soon as the owner realises the card is gone. chip n pin? someting other?

Dunno. Picture Id with forgery-defeating overlay is the best I can think of. Chip would allow for a registry and that's a serious objection many have. Heavy penalty for forgery/theft, I guess.

 

[Peregrinator]

sounds like a driver's license.

that sure worked for automobiles.

no one ever dies in an automobile.

You--and I--don't want to extend your argument. What reduced auto accident deaths from ~100 000/yr to ~40 000/yr was massive federal goverment action on multiple fronts.

One difference is that in my idea, there's no goverment record.

 

[Peregrinator]

they already exit.

you need a foid card in il to own a fire arm.

no one ever gets shot in chicago.

Not everywhere. My attempt at compromise addresses this.

 

[sweepthefloor]

I don't know anything about guns but it seems that the card thing would just create more work for law enforcement.

 

[Liar]

Random thought that I'm sure I'm not the first to have:

"Keep and bear arms" clearly adresses owning and carrying guns. Does it adress shooting them? EDIT: ...or even brandishing?

The car analogy is clear. It's not the buying and owning (or, if you're The Incedible Hulk or something, carrying) a car that requires a license, it's the driving.

 

[Peregrinator]

Supremes already said you can own a gun.

Yup. All rights are subject to some restriction. In my system, you take the training, or are grandfathered by military service as I was in NH for my permit, and then get to exercise your 2A right to bear without further absurd restrictions mandated by people who know nothing about guns.

 

[Peregrinator]

I don't know anything about guns but it seems that the card thing would just create more work for law enforcement.

I can't imagine it's any more work than asking for ID at appropriate times and places.

 

[Peregrinator]

Random thought that I'm sure I'm not the first to have:

"Keep and bear arms" clearly adresses owning and carrying guns. Does it adress shooting them?

The car analogy is clear. It's not the buying and owning (or, if you're The Incedible Hulk or something, carrying) a car that requires a license, it's the driving.

I think the act of firing them is sort of assumed. A situation where you could keep and bear but not use would hardly have been in line with what the founders were thinking.

 

[Bert Notorius]

I don't know anything about guns but it seems that the card thing would just create more work for law enforcement.

not really.

criminals won't be signing up for one.

 

[Bert Notorius]

Not everywhere. My attempt at compromise addresses this.

a piece of paper doesn't work on the state level

so expand it to the federal level.

makes sense.

were you always this liberal?

you've been gone a long time.

 

[butters]

Dunno. Picture Id with forgery-defeating overlay is the best I can think of. Chip would allow for a registry and that's a serious objection many have. Heavy penalty for forgery/theft, I guess.

as a brit, i'm ignorant of many US related issues. why do people have objections to registration?

plus,if the card is the license, there should be something in place to make sure you're still fit to own it every - what - 5 years? mental ill health, physical degeneration (eyesight, for example), might affect ones ability to make judgement calls or physically operate a gun to the required standards.

do i think guns should be all registered/owner-matched in the same kind of way as vehicles in the UK? yeah, till someone convinces me why a different approach is better.

 

[Peregrinator]

not really.

criminals won't be signing up for one.

Absolutely correct, and this is why I oppose most restrictions. My system gives us an additional offense to prosecute. They got Al Capone on tax evasion. They could nail shitheads for unlawful carry or whatever they call it. Tack on time.

 

[Wrong Element]

All I had to see was the words "national" and "card" to realize that what you're describing will be a total nonstarter with the gun lobby.

 

[Peregrinator]

a piece of paper doesn't work on the state level

so expand it to the federal level.

makes sense.

were you always this liberal?

you've been gone a long time.

Constitutional carry, with some training. Does away with the balkanized patchwork we have now. I recently drove down to Philly. My concealed piece was fine in VT, illegal in MA, NY, NJ, and then legal again by reciprocity with NH in PA.

Wtf kind of sense does that make?

 

[Liar]

All I had to see was the words "national" and "card" to realize that what you're describing will be a total nonstarter with the gun lobby.

National Rifle Association Membership Card.

 

[Not Normal]

Having no record of guy purchases is not a good idea. Purchase from anyone at any time is a bad idea. Any gun you want because you took a class is a bad idea. Giant clips is a bad idea.

I go the opposite. I think every guy should weight 100 pounds and each round should cost $200, and it should all be recorded.

 

[Colonel Hogan]

I think this addresses most of the concerns of both sides except the extremes ("GUNZ DRIVE TO SKOOLS AND KILL BABIES"

And therein lies the deficiency of your plan.

Tell the truth. The primary motivation for your coming up with the plan is the noise created by the "extremes." And as long as "GUNZ KILL BABIES" the noise decrying the very EXISTENCE of guns will not abate.

The real "purpose" of gun control is to shut these people up. And since their heartfelt objective of 100% cessation of all gun deaths to innocent victims cannot be achieved, the noise is going to continue whenever gun deaths make the news. Which is why the overwhelming number of innocent shooting victims never generate a protest parade in their memory. They're under reported.

 

[Bert Notorius]

Constitutional carry, with some training. Does away with the balkanized patchwork we have now. I recently drove down to Philly. My concealed piece was fine in VT, illegal in MA, NY, NJ, and then legal again by reciprocity with NH in PA.

Wtf kind of sense does that make?

i'm not a fan of increasing the federal govt's power in any shape or form.

i'm assuming if the piece is disabled,

those states don't care.