Yeats on Owens

[twelveoone]

Yeats on Owen

We have no gift to set a statesman right;

Tory git, eh, Bogus?
Died in '39
before the full flower of Versaille

 

[bogusbrig]

We have no gift to set a statesman right;

Tory git, eh, Bogus?
Died in '39
before the full flower of Versaille

I don't think he (Yeats) could accept his world of certainties had been destroyed, the great man you doffed your cap to was no more and the lions, really were led by donkeys. It would have been a big man to admit that everything he believed in was wrong but unfortunately for him, it was.

'Red stones are not so red as the red stones kissed by the English dead.' Owen.

How patriotic does a poet have to be to remain acceptable? From our perspective the war poets merely wrote reportage of the war (though very moving) and were only incidental in their politics. I think it illustrates a world where people were expected to know their place.

My great uncle said, he would have preferred to shoot the politicians and not the Germans. Now that is politics!

 

[twelveoone]

I don't think he (Yeats) could accept his world of certainties had been destroyed, the great man you doffed your cap to was no more and the lions, really were led by donkeys. It would have been a big man to admit that everything he believed in was wrong but unfortunately for him, it was.

'Red stones are not so red as the red stones kissed by the English dead.' Owen.

How patriotic does a poet have to be to remain acceptable? From our perspective the war poets merely wrote reportage of the war (though very moving) and were only incidental in their politics. I think it illustrates a world where people were expected to know their place.

My great uncle said, he would have preferred to shoot the politicians and not the Germans. Now that is politics!

I knew that would rise you, you've been lethagic of late.

Why speak of these politics...
blah, blah, blah...
Under the Black Flag with me underdone doggeral by 1201

 

[quietpoet]

How patriotic does a poet have to be to remain acceptable? From our perspective the war poets merely wrote reportage of the war (though very moving) and were only incidental in their politics. I think it illustrates a world where people were expected to know their place.

My great uncle said, he would have preferred to shoot the politicians and not the Germans. Now that is politics!

I think the great thing about poetry is its ability to transcend the boundaries of politics. Is there a problem with being incendiary or subversive? Possibly, if you are writing for a mainstream newspaper, but not in poetry. Poets have been the voice of the underground for many centuries. Let's hope we never lose our "wake up" voice.

QP

 

[bogusbrig]

I knew that would rise you, you've been lethagic of late.

Why speak of these politics...
blah, blah, blah...
Under the Black Flag with me underdone doggeral by 1201

You know how to press my buttons.

A bigger man than me would remain aloof but damn, I'm small and I like it that way.

 

[bogusbrig]

I think the great thing about poetry is its ability to transcend the boundaries of politics. Is there a problem with being incendiary or subversive? Possibly, if you are writing for a mainstream newspaper, but not in poetry. Poets have been the voice of the underground for many centuries. Let's hope we never lose our "wake up" voice.

QP

I love the war poets but I am aware they have their short comings and they were very much men of their time. I think my great uncle would have criticized them for seeing and not acting upon what they saw, since many of them were of priveleged positions. He was there so I think that would have given him the right to judge. I wasn't so I only judge them on their poetry. I do however have an aversion for poets/writers/artists who conscript the suffering of others to add superficial depth to their poetry. If I was a contemporary, maybe I would have agreed with some of Yeats' criticisms.

 

[quietpoet]

Historically speaking...

It is only a product of the "age of liberalism" that a public education was espoused for all. Reading/writing skills for many years were only for the rich males. The vast majority of the priveleged in ANY time have not been conscripted or involved on the front lines. In most cases, those who have not experienced a modicum what they write about, will not write about it with efficacy, hence the superficiality of the writing. Talk is cheap. Everyone has the ability to judge, whether or not it carries weight is another story!


QP

I love the war poets but I am aware they have their short comings and they were very much men of their time. I think my great uncle would have criticized them for seeing and not acting upon what they saw, since many of them were of priveleged positions. He was there so I think that would have given him the right to judge. I wasn't so I only judge them on their poetry. I do however have an aversion for poets/writers/artists who conscript the suffering of others to add superficial depth to their poetry. If I was a contemporary, maybe I would have agreed with some of Yeats' criticisms.

 

[twelveoone]

We have no gift to set a statesman right;

Tory git, eh, Bogus?
Died in '39
before the full flower of Versaille

before the full flower of Versaille...
and the madness of the east.

 

[bogusbrig]

Burn in the pits of hell

I've tried to resist this thread, knowing full well 1201 was leading me but after someone quoted this to me Whatever is begotten, born and dies./ Caught in that sensual music all neglect/Monuments of unageing intellect, I just wanted to vomit! I guessed it was Yeats, it just sounded like his twaddle. It's crap! Because of my visceral reaction to it I decided to read the poem it came from, Sailing To Byzantium, to see if there is any foundation to my allergy towards him. My verdict: "OXYGEN PLEASE!!! I NEED OXYGEN!!'

OK I know I'm in the minority, this bloke is well and truely cast into the concrete of the canon but he truely belongs to a world best forgotten. In fact he should be cast into the burning pits of hell for writing his drippy, syruppy, archaic vesions of some long forgotten idyl that never existed in the first place. It's not that his visions never existed, if he was to be damned for that then so many worthy poets would be cast into the pits along side him, its his saccharin view of the world that makes me sick. Even when he's trying to write about something with depth, he coats it in such a saccharin language, it's turns my stomach.