Yay capitalism

[DeeZire]

"Maximizing profit" is just a fancy way of saying "pursuing one's self interest," a universal human characteristic which, as Adam Smith explained, is a constructive force for society.

Rox - you might want to peruse Jim Hightower's latest book 'Swim Against the Current'. It presents anecdotal evidence that it is possible to balance self-interest with concern for the common good in a capitalist system. I realize this concept sounds farfetched to you, but it does happen, and it happens completely outside the realm of communism.

Looking at the big picture, depleting our ecological resources could be considered a deconstructive force for society - a concept ignored by the capitalist model that prioritizes short term profits while ignoring long term consequences. This is the point of this thread.

In case Rox still has me on ignore (for utilizing the same kind of tactics she used for her first post in this thread) perhaps someone could quote this so she'll see it.

 

[amicus]

depleting our ecological resources

~~~

How silly can one poster be, I mean really?

The earth continually recycles all the minerals and petroleum as the continental drift folds the layers back into the mantle and melts them and starts all over again.

The trees and grasses and animals, including humans, live and die and like dust, return to the earth to take another form.

The absolute silliness to think that the miniscule amount of 'ecological resources' consumed by humans is little more than a drop in the ocean in the 'big picture' you so myopically see through your lense of hatred for all things human.

Give us a break, get a job in an oil field, do something useful for once in your life.

Amicus...

 

[cantdog]

Of course Bayer tried to maximize its profits - that's what every person corporeal or legal does when they do business. The question is did they knowingly produced and distributed a harmful product - essentially, did they commit fraud. Apparently legal processes are underway to determine if directors or managers within the firm did so, and in the fullness of time the truth will be known and consequences will follow.

"Maximizing profit" is just a fancy way of saying "pursuing one's self interest," a universal human characteristic which, as Adam Smith explained, is a constructive force for society. Fraud, on the other hand, is not universal, and obviously is not a constructive force. But condemning fraud doesn't have the same radical-chic, trendy appeal as condemning capitalism or putting on faux-Marxist airs.

You more or less deliberately misread Smith.

 

[Belegon]

You more or less deliberately misread Smith.

You say that like you are surprised...

 

[Roxanne Appleby]

You more or less deliberately misread Smith.

I'm still surprised by the extent to which people who don't believe the underlying principles of economics as laid out by Adam Smith nevertheless seek to at the same time claim him as one of their own and deny that he said what he said.

"Every individual . . . by directing that industry in such a manner as its produce may be of the greatest value, intends only his own gain, and he is in this, as in many other cases, led by an invisible hand to promote an end which was no part of his intention. By pursuing his own interest he frequently promotes that of the society more effectually than when he really intends to promote it. I have never known much good done by those who affected to trade for the public good."

 

[Belegon]

I'm still surprised by the extent to which people who don't believe the underlying principles of economics as laid out by Adam Smith nevertheless seek to at the same time claim him as one of their own and deny that he said what he said.

Honestly, I think the biggest problem may be how many of us slept through Econ 101 and 102...

Seriously. I think there were more snores per capita in those classes than any I ever took in my life.

 

[amicus]

It is not so much the students to blame as it is the professors. I met a young man, many years ago, in his junior year in college who was majoring in Economics. He never had a class or was assigned a book by a single classical economist such as Smith, Von Mises, Shumpeter, Hayek or any other of dozens of free market economists.

Thank you Roxanne for that excerpt, makes it hard for the usual suspects to deny the meaning or to accuse you of miss reading.

Well done!

ami

 

[DeeZire]

How silly can one poster be, I mean really?

The earth continually recycles all the minerals and petroleum as the continental drift folds the layers back into the mantle and melts them and starts all over again.

The trees and grasses and animals, including humans, live and die and like dust, return to the earth to take another form.

The absolute silliness to think that the miniscule amount of 'ecological resources' consumed by humans is little more than a drop in the ocean in the 'big picture' you so myopically see through your lense of hatred for all things human.

Give us a break, get a job in an oil field, do something useful for once in your life.

Amicus...

How dense can one poster be, I mean really? Have you been to Haiti lately? 95% of their forests are gone, causing horrendous ecological problems. Again, your understanding of basic concepts is absent from this discussion.

FYI, I have no hatred for all things human. My hatred is for the inhumanity forced upon us by a system that ignores the resources it needs to function.

Give us a break, go get a job in a sewage plant, do something useful for once in your life.

DeeZire...

 

[Stella_Omega]

Of course Bayer tried to maximize its profits - that's what every person corporeal or legal does when they do business. The question is did they knowingly produced and distributed a harmful product - essentially, did they commit fraud. Apparently legal processes are underway to determine if directors or managers within the firm did so, and in the fullness of time the truth will be known and consequences will follow.

"Maximizing profit" is just a fancy way of saying "pursuing one's self interest," a universal human characteristic which, as Adam Smith explained, is a constructive force for society. Fraud, on the other hand, is not universal, and obviously is not a constructive force. But condemning fraud doesn't have the same radical-chic, trendy appeal as condemning capitalism or putting on faux-Marxist airs.

Ah, you are correct. I should have said, and I will now say;

"Is this your way of denying the possibility that Bayer may have committed a globally debilitating fraud in order to maximise its profits?"

Capitalist fraud on this scale could be rare, but when it happens it is devastating. And the rate of these incidents is much more than "rare." Unfortunately, one of the fastest ways to maximise profits is via fraud of one sort or another.

It only takes three or four of these actions to destroy a great deal of that quality of life you love so much.

I totally agree, it's true of governments as well. Government needs curbs just as much as private enterprise does.

Because, Roxy, "in the fullness of time" is not going to restore the agricultural devastation that Bayer may have wrought here.

 

[gauchecritic]

Of course Bayer tried to maximize its profits - that's what every person corporeal or legal does when they do business.

<----- doesn't. Though I am both corporeal and legal.

 

[Le Jacquelope]

Of course Bayer tried to maximize its profits - that's what every person corporeal or legal does when they do business. The question is did they knowingly produced and distributed a harmful product - essentially, did they commit fraud. Apparently legal processes are underway to determine if directors or managers within the firm did so, and in the fullness of time the truth will be known and consequences will follow.

"Maximizing profit" is just a fancy way of saying "pursuing one's self interest," a universal human characteristic which, as Adam Smith explained, is a constructive force for society. Fraud, on the other hand, is not universal, and obviously is not a constructive force. But condemning fraud doesn't have the same radical-chic, trendy appeal as condemning capitalism or putting on faux-Marxist airs.

Capitalism is entirely ABOUT pursuing self-interest - consideration of others is not part of capitalism. Go look up the definition of capitalism.

Capitalism is about one animal preying on another for profit. Fraud is as much a part of that system as breathing is to living.