Wuhan Flu update.

[renard_ruse]

Yeah, considering that "woke" simply means going through life with your eyes open to the truth, I don't understand why deplorables think it's such an insult.

I hate the term "woke" but its the term in common use for the evil Civil Religion of the globalist pseudo-elite. I was on this very site calling the same thing "The Myth Of The Oppressed Groups" long ago. I don't think Obama had even been elected yet. This evil ideology / false Civil Religion has existed in proto forms for decades. At one time the most widely known term was "political correctness "

 

[LukSkyFokker]

Let's not forget that the OP got the virus while you're reading his ramblings.

 

[sigh]

Cite the studies that show mask efficacy that the "broad survey" found.

You are aware (aren't you?) That hospital-grade HEPA filtration systems do not filter out airborne viruses?

No. I'm simply reporting the fact that the article you're using to justify your arguments has by retracted by the publisher. Their reasons are given. If you wish to re-justify your position, find an author who did his research properly. From a scientific viewpoint, what you gave us is meaningless. Why make it a discussion point?

 

[sigh]

Cite the studies that show mask efficacy that the "broad survey" found.

You are aware (aren't you?) That hospital-grade HEPA filtration systems do not filter out airborne viruses?

True, but viruses don't float around all by themselves. They are attached to various particles (droplets, dust) that ARE filtered by HEPA systems. This is from the Mayo Clinic:

COVID-19 is not expelled on its own. It has to attach to something else to travel, such as mucus, a respiratory droplet or a piece of dust in the environment. A HEPA filter does not kill the COVID-19 virus, but the elements that can transport the virus attach to the filter so they cannot circulate in your living area.

So your point is correct, but hugely misleading.

 

[JohnnySavage]

In my simple, layman's view, it doesn't seem like those states with the most restrictive measures had any better outcome than those states with the least restrictive measures.

 

[sigh]

Yes it was "purposedly released." Yes it was a minor illness that was MASSIVELY overhyped by the world establishment. Yes, the primary reason was to stop the re-election of Donald Trump. Yes, there were other agendas at play, but the original timeframe was going to be 2025 to 2028. The world pseudo-elite sped up the plan out of paranoia that Trump might be re-elected.

Prove any of that, please.

Trump destroyed his own chance at reelection. Had he stood up and led early on, when he knew the virus was airborne, when he knew it was dangerous, he would have been reelected in a landslide. Period. We have his own words though, telling us in his own voice, that he wanted to play it down. He didn't lead and he lost. It's time you guys accept your leader's words and failures.

And no matter where the virus originated, or whether it was designed or natural, released deliberately or not, it doesn't change Trump's response to it one bit. His failure is still monumental. Trying to point fingers of blame elsewhere is fun and distracting for you folks, I'm sure, but he still failed. And hundreds of thousands died.

Don't you dare try to pretend Covid is a minor illness. That is such an asshole thing to say when millions have suffered loss of loved ones.

 

[sigh]

In my simple, layman's view, it doesn't seem like those states with the most restrictive measures had any better outcome than those states with the least restrictive measures.

Maybe so, and some of the worst-hit states did have the most restrictions, but that's something that's impossible to prove. We can't know who might have died if those states hadn't had their restrictions. No study will ever tell us that directly.

But we do have smaller (though still quite large) studies looking at various mitigation efforts (masking versus unmasking, for instance) and those studies consistently support mitigation efforts being used.

 

[bellisarius]

Prove any of that, please.

Trump destroyed his own chance at reelection. Had he stood up and led early on, when he knew the virus was airborne, when he knew it was dangerous, he would have been reelected in a landslide. Period. We have his own words though, telling us in his own voice, that he wanted to play it down. He didn't lead and he lost. It's time you guys accept your leader's words and failures.

And no matter where the virus originated, or whether it was designed or natural, released deliberately or not, it doesn't change Trump's response to it one bit. His failure is still monumental. Trying to point fingers of blame elsewhere is fun and distracting for you folks, I'm sure, but he still failed. And hundreds of thousands died.

Don't you dare try to pretend Covid is a minor illness. That is such an asshole thing to say when millions have suffered loss of loved ones.

Look sigh, I'm not going to argue about the face masks, never did. Or washing hands or any of that. I still stick to my original call and that being that it's going to run its course no matter what anyone does or doesn't do. All of those actions, masks etc., probably had an effect on the transmission rate but that's about it. In the end Trump was right on a hell of a lot more than he was wrong about. What you are speaking of is optics only, nothing else. And while Biden is taking the victory lap it was Trump's 'Warp Speed' agenda that made it possible for Biden to do so. The vaccine was out before Biden ever took office.

These threads wander off as per the usual but what remains is still the fact that lock down or not the results have been about the same and lock downs have nothing to do with prudent precautions. And it DID originate from that lab in Wuhan.

 

[JohnnySavage]

Maybe so, and some of the worst-hit states did have the most restrictions, but that's something that's impossible to prove. We can't know who might have died if those states hadn't had their restrictions. No study will ever tell us that directly.

But we do have smaller (though still quite large) studies looking at various mitigation efforts (masking versus unmasking, for instance) and those studies consistently support mitigation efforts being used.

It's not about what you can prove in an academic exercise. It's about real people living in the real world.

Just like the 600K covid deaths. As you obliquely imply, how many of those 600K would have died in the past year any way? Isn't the true measure of the number of covid deaths the net increase in deaths over the past 18 months above what would normally have been expected?

Sometimes people get too caught up in scientific analysis and running with it and ignore what is going on outside their particular area of expertise.

 

[sigh]

It's not about what you can prove in an academic exercise. It's about real people living in the real world.

Just like the 600K covid deaths. As you obliquely imply, how many of those 600K would have died in the past year any way? Isn't the true measure of the number of covid deaths the net increase in deaths over the past 18 months above what would normally have been expected?

Sometimes people get too caught up in scientific analysis and running with it and ignore what is going on outside their particular area of expertise.

Real people in the real world died at a 20% higher overall rate in 2020 than in 2019. The increase was observed in all age groups except those under 25. We had the highest annual death rate since 1943.

Without those stats, I'd be all on the side of the Covid conspiracy camp. I don't live in academia. I work and live in the real world.

 

[Pookie]

Well, it's been a little over a year since the Wuhan Flu turned the world upside down. What have we learned?

We've learned that Trumper pseudoscience survived Covid-19.

 

[RobDownSouth]

Where's AJ to incorrectly chastize Ishtard for not posting this on the P.B.?

AJ has been bedridden for a few days. Nothing wrong with him, actually, it's just that he's waiting for a replacement battery for his Hoveround travel scooter. Hoping Amazon delivers one today, his worksquaw is tired of emptying a bedpan.

#DontGetAroundMuchAnymore

 

[JohnnySavage]

The CDC says the death rate increased 15.9%, but your point is made.

Link

I'm not a covid denier, nor an anti-vaxer. It just seems to me that covid, while serious, got way too much air time. Heart disease killed twice as many Americans, yet McDonald's remained open.

 

[sigh]

Look sigh, I'm not going to argue about the face masks, never did. Or washing hands or any of that. I still stick to my original call and that being that it's going to run its course no matter what anyone does or doesn't do. All of those actions, masks etc., probably had an effect on the transmission rate but that's about it. In the end Trump was right on a hell of a lot more than he was wrong about. What you are speaking of is optics only, nothing else. And while Biden is taking the victory lap it was Trump's 'Warp Speed' agenda that made it possible for Biden to do so. The vaccine was out before Biden ever took office.

These threads wander off as per the usual but what remains is still the fact that lock down or not the results have been about the same and lock downs have nothing to do with prudent precautions. And it DID originate from that lab in Wuhan.

Once more, I care only peripherally where the virus came from. It's a deliberate distraction to spread blame. It needs to be investigated, and if it's true, needs to be responded to, but right now I care about Trump's failure and the people who have died because of it.

I've pointed this out before but it's always conveniently forgotten. The makers of the first vaccine didn't participate in the warp speed program. They were already well underway and only accepted a contract to sell it when it was available. And that they were guaranteed anyway. Sorry to burst that bubble, but the vaccine that Trump wants named after himself, that he took himself but won't encourage others to use, and that his followers are now pretending is going to kill us all, really had virtually nothing to do with Trump or his policies at all. And yes, the virus was out, but going nowhere because there was no plan to distribute it. I never mentioned Biden by the way. Another misdirection? Tell me something Trump was right about, please, when it comes to the virus. I'm having trouble seeing his "successes". I guess I was too busy being in the middle of it trying to save lives of people whose families were mad at us for calling it Covid. Where did that bullshit come from if not from our former glorious leader?

Optics? Half a million dead and you're saying it's all optics? Fuck that.

 

[sigh]

The CDC says the death rate increased 15.9%, but your point is made.

Link

I'm not a covid denier, nor an anti-vaxer. It just seems to me that covid, while serious, got way too much air time. Heart disease killed twice as many Americans, yet McDonald's remained open.

Okay, the study I looked at said it hadn't factored in the new 2020 census data and that all death certificates hadn't been completed. But as you say, the increase in deaths is certainly there.

I understand when people compare it to existing diseases like heart disease, but this is above and beyond those. It's the sudden huge increase in deaths from a single infectious source that freaked people out. And yeah, that's newsworthy. I think so anyway, but then I worked in medicine so my take on news no doubt reflects that.

 

[Conager]

True, but viruses don't float around all by themselves. They are attached to various particles (droplets, dust) that ARE filtered by HEPA systems. This is from the Mayo Clinic:

COVID-19 is not expelled on its own. It has to attach to something else to travel, such as mucus, a respiratory droplet or a piece of dust in the environment. A HEPA filter does not kill the COVID-19 virus, but the elements that can transport the virus attach to the filter so they cannot circulate in your living area.

So your point is correct, but hugely misleading.

No, not at all. HEPA filters only catch SOME of the larger particles. It does not render any space safe from an aerosolized virus. And yes, viruses can, and do travel alone, but certainly on microscopic particles. Dust is HUGE and visible to the naked eye. An N95 mask (exactly the same thing we used in mining labels as M95 for "mining" stops 95% of dust particles. Far less than a HEPA filter. You cannot breath through a HEPA filter because it is too restrictive, hence the need for a blower to force air through one. The 5% of dust that gets through an N95 is the least of your worries. It is not designed to stop any aerosolized virus because those particles are far smaller than dust.

So it doesn't. Says right on the box "not intended to prevent the spread of diseases" which is what Fauci was alluding to when he told the truth initially. No lab or quarantine uses 5hem when dealing with a virus as virulent and deadly as this was initially billed as. They use closed loop respirators.

And again, there are zero studies showing otherwise. Even studies about surgical masks reducing nosocomial infections show no reduction. Ditto masks for healthcare workers preventing the seasonal influenza.

"Masks work" is something everybody knows and no one has demonstrated. correlation does not equal causation but you can't even find correlations to support mask usage; if anything's there seems to be a negative correlation between areas with mask mandates and infection. Basically the virus did what viruses do and nothing attempted made any difference until vaccines.

Isolation worked for those that isolated and the virus was waiting as soon as they broke isolation.

 

[Conager]

Once more, I care only peripherally where the virus came from. It's a deliberate distraction to spread blame. It needs to be investigated, and if it's true, needs to be responded to, but right now I care about Trump's failure and the people who have died because of it.

I've pointed this out before but it's always conveniently forgotten. The makers of the first vaccine didn't participate in the warp speed program. They were already well underway and only accepted a contract to sell it when it was available. And that they were guaranteed anyway. Sorry to burst that bubble, but the vaccine that Trump wants named after himself, that he took himself but won't encourage others to use, and that his followers are now pretending is going to kill us all, really had virtually nothing to do with Trump or his policies at all. And yes, the virus was out, but going nowhere because there was no plan to distribute it. I never mentioned Biden by the way. Another misdirection? Tell me something Trump was right about, please, when it comes to the virus. I'm having trouble seeing his "successes". I guess I was too busy being in the middle of it trying to save lives of people whose families were mad at us for calling it Covid. Where did that bullshit come from if not from our former glorious leader?

Optics? Half a million dead and you're saying it's all optics? Fuck that.

A half a million old people with MULTIPLE comorbidities due not die "from" Covid19. The died "with" or were "suspected to have died with" covid19. Yuuuuge difference.

We lose 300,000 Alzheimer's Patients a year. Most are indigent because it is a sad, lengthy, debilitating disease. If you start out poor you're already Indigent if you didn't start out poor you become Indigent. If you've got money you got lawyers and accountants to make sure that you're Indigent before you're placed in that nursing home.

will you consider the billions of actual Medicare fraud that happens every year . . What do you think every nursing home billing department did when the government tells you it is advised to report all "suspected" covid deaths as such.

Untangling the excess deaths is going to be very difficult. This mass hysteria caused many elderly people to avoid their doctor's office which meant lots of things that would have been caught early for not caught, lots of treatments that should have been given were not. It is estimated that for every covid death there were two deaths caused by neglect.

You really need to reconsider your news sources because I don't consider you to be a person who's is personally full of s*** but everything you wrote above is basically full of s***. They're absolutely was a plan to distribute the vaccine and in fact it was well under way long before Biden occupied the White House. They quite specifically had a plan to get it to the states and the state to in turn figure out the best way to serve their populations. There absolutely was a plan and it was up to Bidens victory-lap goal before he took office

 

[bellisarius]

Once more, I care only peripherally where the virus came from. It's a deliberate distraction to spread blame. It needs to be investigated, and if it's true, needs to be responded to, but right now I care about Trump's failure and the people who have died because of it.

I've pointed this out before but it's always conveniently forgotten. The makers of the first vaccine didn't participate in the warp speed program. They were already well underway and only accepted a contract to sell it when it was available. And that they were guaranteed anyway. Sorry to burst that bubble, but the vaccine that Trump wants named after himself, that he took himself but won't encourage others to use, and that his followers are now pretending is going to kill us all, really had virtually nothing to do with Trump or his policies at all. And yes, the virus was out, but going nowhere because there was no plan to distribute it. I never mentioned Biden by the way. Another misdirection? Tell me something Trump was right about, please, when it comes to the virus. I'm having trouble seeing his "successes". I guess I was too busy being in the middle of it trying to save lives of people whose families were mad at us for calling it Covid. Where did that bullshit come from if not from our former glorious leader?

Optics? Half a million dead and you're saying it's all optics? Fuck that.

He was right about it coming from that lab and he was right about the lock downs being destructive and he was right in making billions available to bring a vaccine to the market.

As far as the vaccines go you better do some deeper digging there. Pfizer got $1.95 billion alone. BioNTech was the root company for the technology used to create the vaccine and they had been in that business for 18 years at the time. Of course they shifted their research to focus on the Wuhan Flu virus, billions of dollars were on the table and EVERYONE in that field of research wanted a piece of that action.

Name one thing ANY president could have done to prevent those deaths, just one damn thing. By far the most destructive action was taken by Coumo, who for a time was touted as the poster boy for effective measures.

 

[Sean]

He was right about it coming from that lab

Where is your fucking evidence for this?

 

[Conager]

Maybe so, and some of the worst-hit states did have the most restrictions, but that's something that's impossible to prove. We can't know who might have died if those states hadn't had their restrictions. No study will ever tell us that directly.

But we do have smaller (though still quite large) studies looking at various mitigation efforts (masking versus unmasking, for instance) and those studies consistently support mitigation efforts being used.

Absolute unmitigated bullshit. There were no "studies" there were pronouncements of efficacy in various locales wherever a cherry-picked data point could be found and those various locales were never spoken of again when they, in turn, spiked.

The only thing that made any difference at all was weather. The changes in weather it changes how many fresh air exchangers you're likely to get because it depends on what sort of ventilation you have available and how much time people are spending outside. That was the only thing that made any difference; the only thing that you can positively correlate. All the rest of it was statistically noise.

 

[Conager]

Where is your fucking evidence for this?

The absence of any other viable source for the virus at that place and time. The only thing that's even in question at this point is whether the virus was manipulated in the lab or simply a sample that got loose.

Do try to keep up with the rest of the class.

 

[Pookie]

Where is your fucking evidence for this?

He's been assimilated into the Trumper hive. Facts live in a different reality there.

 

[Pookie]

The absence of any other viable source for the virus at that place and time. The only thing that's even in question at this point is whether the virus was manipulated in the lab or simply a sample that got loose.

Do try to keep up with the rest of the class.

Appealing to ignorance is all you have then. Logical fallacies aren't helping your position.

 

[sigh]

A half a million old people with MULTIPLE comorbidities due not die "from" Covid19. The died "with" or were "suspected to have died with" covid19. Yuuuuge difference.

We lose 300,000 Alzheimer's Patients a year. Most are indigent because it is a sad, lengthy, debilitating disease. If you start out poor you're already Indigent if you didn't start out poor you become Indigent. If you've got money you got lawyers and accountants to make sure that you're Indigent before you're placed in that nursing home.

will you consider the billions of actual Medicare fraud that happens every year . . What do you think every nursing home billing department did when the government tells you it is advised to report all "suspected" covid deaths as such.

Untangling the excess deaths is going to be very difficult. This mass hysteria caused many elderly people to avoid their doctor's office which meant lots of things that would have been caught early for not caught, lots of treatments that should have been given were not. It is estimated that for every covid death there were two deaths caused by neglect.

You really need to reconsider your news sources because I don't consider you to be a person who's is personally full of s*** but everything you wrote above is basically full of s***. They're absolutely was a plan to distribute the vaccine and in fact it was well under way long before Biden occupied the White House. They quite specifically had a plan to get it to the states and the state to in turn figure out the best way to serve their populations. There absolutely was a plan and it was up to Bidens victory-lap goal before he took office

When a person with heart disease dies of pneumonia, the cause of death is listed as pneumonia. You may think that's incorrect, but that's been the standard for all of my career, and I'm sure for decades before that. So you're actually still pretending this isn't real? Denial is the conservatives' favorite talking point. Has been for a long time.

And again, who is talking about Biden? Certainly not me. Have you seen me praise his coronavirus response? Ever? I don't have enough data to decide yet.

Medicare fraud? Alzheimer's? Ummm...you need to focus a bit or is this more diversion from the actual issue?

 

[Sean]

The absence of any other viable source for the virus at that place and time. The only thing that's even in question at this point is whether the virus was manipulated in the lab or simply a sample that got loose.

Do try to keep up with the rest of the class.

What an interesting argument. So, by this logic, we haven't found a transmission medium for gravity so it must be caused by elves.